December Stock Talk I

Sasquatch-

 

What really concerns me is the inevitable inflation that is coming due to all the bailout packages since August '07.

 

Bernanke/Paulson/Congress/Bush Jr, with all their flooding of the system with magically printed up dollars is pure suicide for the future. I don't know your background in economics, so perhaps this may not make much sense to you.

 

What have we gained from all the bailout packages?  The answer is a very temporary (like 6 years) bandaid on a gushing wound.  These bailout packages that have been rammed down the taxpayers' throats have done one thing though-----insured that corrupt CEOs, who are responsible for their companies' horrific business practices, get to keep their high paying jobs a little while longer.

 

6 years from now, we will look back at all the bailout packages and realize that it was a massive mistake.

 

Oh yeah, I agree......just letting the market run its course once subprime broke last July '07 would've been horrible, but that horror would be less horrific than the horror of 150% inflation over the next 6 years to bail out a bunch of crooks.

 

And yes, Sasquatch, you can still make money in the stock market (even with Dow down 800 points days), but that dollar you're making is more and more worthless for the future.

WSC-

 

I hope you're right on the dollar.  I really do.  But I just cannot see how on earth the dollar can maintain strength in the face of all these bailout packages.

 

Obama won't help either, cause we all know he had to promise the sun and the moon to various constituents that helped his campaign.......and now those same constituents will want to get theirs.  Result is going to be higher taxes for everyone, not just "the rich."

 

Other than all the negativity right now, I cannot find one reason to be positive on the future.

 

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Grocers-----certainly nothing there has fallen due to their greed, no question about that.  Cause when oil went ballistic last spring/summer, the higher transport costs had yet to be passed on to Joe Consumer......now the grocers are turning up the heat, and they'll turn it up even more once oil starts its inevitable upward climb some time in 2009.

 

You got to admit, WSC, that the inflationary prospects for the future are pretty damn scary given the foundation we are laying right now via these bailout packages.

 

But gosh darn I hope I am dead wrong.

Want something to laugh at when auto makers cry in front of Congress in tomorrow's version of "manipulation theatre?"

 

I read a blurb on Bloomberg Tuesday morning.........

 

It stated that auto executives would cut their bonuses (yes, "bonuses"........ for losing money and overseeing the manufacture of dismal automobiles the last 35 years) by a whopping 10% for "the winter quarter."

 

That right there alone would be enough for me (if I were in Congress) to just automatically deny any bailout package.

 

Yep....exactly.......some d-bag executive at GM, making several hundred thousand dollars a year in farking "BONUSES," on top of salary, is going to take a 10% cut in this bonus for 3 gd months.

 

This literally should make you want to throw up.......or I guess a better alternative would be to laugh hysterically.

Citigroup=300 billion and quite more, AIG=150 billion and most certainly more. GM+F+Chrysler=34 billion and possibly more. Who is really damaging the future of the USA more? . The autos because they have retirees and foreign auto makers do not have retirees in the US to match because they haven't been here for 30 years yet. Let's do away with all unions, yeah we've already almost done that under the Republicans, so fewer and fewer middle class workers can buy a house and support a family (so housing keeps dropping, unless there is a bubble created), and look where we are now? No more unions, and look where all of our pocketbooks now? we are now? Screw you dumb, anti-union, anti-checks and balances for corporate power, morons. Hell, Republicans, we don't need to build anything in the USA anymore at a good working class wage to buy a house, have health care,  support a family, ect... and look where we are now? Thank you anti-union, anti-working wage, a-hole Republicans! Of course, the auto caompanies made mistakes, but the auto companies systemic damage doesn't  even hold a candle to the systemic damage banks have caused in dollars and cents. I mean get real. Look at where we are now? Let's all be Republicans and let the banks take all the money andf give it foreign banks. 1 bank and 1 insurance= 450 bilion, and 3 autos = 34 billion. Who should share most of the blame? Ridiculously biased you are.

You need a smaller regional banking system that is much easier to be held accountable for their actions, if they make mistakes or are criminal. We do not need a banking system that is made up of too big to fail, corporate conglomerates that are too big to manage, innefficient, and have criminal elements tied to government with little oversight and no accountability. Cheers, to all the biased Republican bloggers. Your biased opinions are appreciated. The retirement pensions and healthcare costs from the American middle class workers who paid all of those federal and local taxes, social security taxes , ect... for over 30 years each from working at the big three auto companies will still be on the taxpayers tab even if the big 3 go bankrupt. Let's continue down the Republican path to do away with all of the American labor unions (collective bargaining) for the American middle class, (the Republicans have been getting rid of the American unions ever since the Reagan administration, and it's obviously working out quite well for everybody. Here we are too all reap the benefits together ), and continue on the ride of the sinking Titanic. When Honda and Toyota have 30+ years in America and start to have too many retirees, they will just go bankrupt and screw all of those old retired workers at the foreign car plants too, hehehe. It's just starting to get interesting. Guns loaded, deer to shoot (I love shooting deer with buckshot, it's good eating in a crockpot) , gardens to grow, ect... Prepare for success. Cheers. Trillions of dollars to American banks to give to foreign banks, CEO's,  but no way those darn big 3 should get a relatively small 34 billion bride loan. I love the Republican thinking and rationale. How long ago ( and for how many decades before that) were those darn unionized workers and big three auto companies profitable and paying billions in taxes anyways?

Vermeer, do you know the main reason why the UAW and the big 3 agreed  contractually to have the jobs bank in the first place?

Oh yeah, and giving trillions to the non union banking conglomerates is not flushing trillions down the toilet?

The government had to insure FDIC deposits, but that would not have cost that much. A run on the banks would be a systemic disaster, but the unintended consequences of spending trillions and buying up all sorts of worhtless or unpricable securities from these conglomerate banks on the dollar and future inflation, ect... is a disaster. I mean, banks too big to let the markets do thier business and not to throw some criminals in jail is no recipe for success in capitolism. The big three all made money not too long ago. The big three are having their meltdown because of the banking debacle, frozen credit markets, layoffs from the bursting of the bubble. The right automobile products for so long, suddenly now became dinosaurs, more quickly than they could retool. They must quickly re-tool and build a different line of automobiles for a different automobile market. Did the big three management build just the biggest profit per automobile machines, yes, Did it catch up to them so suddenly, yes. Did the workers do their jobs, Yes. Who saw this coming? I didn't. Some banking insiders had to have known, if the shorts could figure it all out(and some of them did), then some banking insiders had to have known. Where is Bush and his Justice Department or FBI, ect...on banking accountability and restoring financial trust to the American financial system? Is Bush a crook? Nixon was a crook.  Oh yeah, the lifeboats. How are the big three so beyond all repair after decades and billions of dollars in profits and taxes paid? They need to change, everybody got that news flash. Why not try to save some jobs and keep some tax revenue flowing in these most difficult of times? Where will the government get the most bang for thier buck? In the too big to fail banks which are giving billions of dollars to foreign banks, short sellers, executive bonuses (whenever  they can still get away with it), ect... How do we get that money back? Yea, bashing each other is not the best. We are all frustrated, angry, stressed, ect... The debate is still a good one though. CNBC reports on the scale of the bailout so far. Steve Liesman reports the trillions already spent on the banking bailout.  

Ill for decades? The big three have not asked for a bailout since (one not all three) the 1980's when Chrysler got 4 billion and they paid it all back. The big three have paid wages and taxes in the billions of dollars to the government for decades. Ill for decades? I don't get where you get that from? The banks created this catastrophe, along with the help of the Bush Administration. A year or two, really? I hope you're right, but if the banks are back in a year or two, then the big three will be coming right back with them with different product lines, because financing cars is a huge banking system caused problem, and a huge banking system money maker, tax revenue generator, ect... when it is going right. 

Nothing to the scheme of things if the big three fail? Where did you get that information from? There will be parts, stores, dealerships, less banking profits to an already unhealthy banking system. They have paid billions in wages, workers taxed wages, ect... over the decades. Nothing to the scheme of things. You are all Republican in your writings and biased views whether you vote Republican or not. Their will be  another systemic shock to the economy when we lose all of that. You don't think there will be a psychological effect if the big three fail in this fragile economy? It'll just start getting interesting if that happens.

I know, the less the middle class makes in wages and benefits, the better it is for all of us. The less we manufacture in the USA, the better it is for all of us. The less labor unions (collective bargaining) there are the better it is for all of us. The more overpaid the CEO's are, the better it is for all of us. This all started with the Republican Reagan Administration, and now the Republican Bush Administration has just about finished the job. Now here we are today, and it is better for all of us.

A lot of dot.com companies never made any money, the ones that did are still around, or were acquired. The big three made money for decades. You can't be comparing dot.coms that never made a dime to autombile companies that have made money for decades. Many of the dot.com stock bubble companies never provided a good or service that was profitable as a business model, you can't be serious about that comparision of no bridge loans for the big three,  if the dot.com's didn't get theirs.  Seriously?

One thing that I do not understand about the big three. They re-tooled and built tanks, jeeps, planes, ect... duriing WWII, why don't they use a few assembly lines to develop green and renewable wind power energy turbines? I mean it has to be a lot more complicated to engineer and build cars than it is to engineer and build a few wind turbines.

It's not like rewnewable energy would canabilize their auto business, and then they could be a one stop shop for individual or corporate green renewable energy, installation, electric plug in cars, eventually research and development hydrogen power, possibly hydrogen powered cars, ect... They just need a bridge loan to re-tool, be innovative, challenged, ect... Start small in a new direction for the big three (renewable energy wind turbines residential and commercial) and see what they could do along with their soon to be changed more green auto business. More competition is usually better for consumers as well.