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    All Forums | Las Vegas

    Can you making a living gambling in vegas?

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    gunonenic
    nc1capper
    bcarlzson
    gimmedempoints
    666LES
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    gunonenic
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    Posted: Oct. 12, 2009 - 4:47 PM ET #1

    Let's say your goal is min $3k a month, 4-6k on a really good month. So that's anywhere from $100-200 per day on average, grinding it out 7 days per week, making different rounds around town, keeping a low profile by betting table min or greens....or if you're an advantage player bet higher denomination (hit and run) and be extremely selective. What kind of bankroll would you need for that type of return (I'm thinking around $10k for greens and $25k for blacks), what would be the loss stop (per session/per day), and what kind of table games would the most versatile and beatable in the long term?
     
    I know many of you are thinking if it was that easy then there will be no casinos. But remember, your goal is $100-200 per day. You're not a tourist looking to make a killing on your trip. True, somedays you will make that in one minute, and somedays after 2 hours you're only breaking even, or might be down a couple of hundred. 
     
    Yes, as someone have said, "it's a hard way to make an easy living". But can you make a living at it, year in and year out, and if yes, are the sacrifices worth it?
     
     
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    To remove first post, remove entire topic.
    Let's say your goal is min $3k a month, 4-6k on a really good month. So that's anywhere from $100-200 per day on average, grinding it out 7 days per week, making different rounds around town, keeping a low profile by betting table min or greens....or if you're an advantage player bet higher denomination (hit and run) and be extremely selective. What kind of bankroll would you need for that type of return (I'm thinking around $10k for greens and $25k for blacks), what would be the loss stop (per session/per day), and what kind of table games would the most versatile and beatable in the long term?
     
    I know many of you are thinking if it was that easy then there will be no casinos. But remember, your goal is $100-200 per day. You're not a tourist looking to make a killing on your trip. True, somedays you will make that in one minute, and somedays after 2 hours you're only breaking even, or might be down a couple of hundred. 
     
    Yes, as someone have said, "it's a hard way to make an easy living". But can you make a living at it, year in and year out, and if yes, are the sacrifices worth it?
     
     
     
    nc1capper
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    Posted: Oct. 12, 2009 - 5:15 PM ET #2

    no- the house always wins in the long run ---ALWAYS --- the key for gamblers is to know when to get in and back out,,money management,,understanding this is a marathon and not a sprint and anything close to 60 per cent in the world of gaming is incredible, dont quit your day job just yet,,,lay the chalk and take boise st wed. nite to get yourself started on the right path
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    no- the house always wins in the long run ---ALWAYS --- the key for gamblers is to know when to get in and back out,,money management,,understanding this is a marathon and not a sprint and anything close to 60 per cent in the world of gaming is incredible, dont quit your day job just yet,,,lay the chalk and take boise st wed. nite to get yourself started on the right path
     
    gunonenic
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    Posted: Oct. 12, 2009 - 6:15 PM ET #3

    I'm not very good at math, so you guys help me out a little... let's assume you hit 60% on your wagers year round and place 14 bets per week and each bet is $200. You'd clear roughly $1,142 a month, that's using a book like MB and only making even money bets. $500 per bet nets $2,836, and $1k per bet $5,712 minus the commission. I would think to bet $500 per game requires $25k bank roll, and $50k for $1k bets.

    I'm not interested in the win percentage, just the final results.

     

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    I'm not very good at math, so you guys help me out a little... let's assume you hit 60% on your wagers year round and place 14 bets per week and each bet is $200. You'd clear roughly $1,142 a month, that's using a book like MB and only making even money bets. $500 per bet nets $2,836, and $1k per bet $5,712 minus the commission. I would think to bet $500 per game requires $25k bank roll, and $50k for $1k bets.

    I'm not interested in the win percentage, just the final results.

     

     
    gunonenic
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    Posted: Oct. 12, 2009 - 6:21 PM ET #4

    actually, I'm being a little too conservative...if you play greens $5k bank roll is probably adequate, and $10k for blacks.
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    actually, I'm being a little too conservative...if you play greens $5k bank roll is probably adequate, and $10k for blacks.
     
    bcarlzson
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    Posted: Oct. 13, 2009 - 12:22 AM ET #5

    With a 5k bankroll betting $200 a wager, you are going to go broke pretty damn quick. 

    I lived there for a while playing poker as my main source of income.  If you wanted to live there I would just suggest getting a bullshit job on the side.  This allows for 2 things, covering your basic living expenses and filling the time. 

    I lost more money living there from Tuesday to Thursday trying to fill my time.  Borden and gambling is a bad combo.  I felt 10x more than drinking. 

    Also 99% of the population doesn't have the discipline to only bet $200 and stick to it.  You start losing then you start pressing bets. 
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    With a 5k bankroll betting $200 a wager, you are going to go broke pretty damn quick. 

    I lived there for a while playing poker as my main source of income.  If you wanted to live there I would just suggest getting a bullshit job on the side.  This allows for 2 things, covering your basic living expenses and filling the time. 

    I lost more money living there from Tuesday to Thursday trying to fill my time.  Borden and gambling is a bad combo.  I felt 10x more than drinking. 

    Also 99% of the population doesn't have the discipline to only bet $200 and stick to it.  You start losing then you start pressing bets. 
     
    gunonenic
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    Posted: Oct. 13, 2009 - 1:11 AM ET #6

    bc, with a 5k bankroll the base bet would be $25, $10k the base bet would be $100. the goal is to reach $100, then play it by ear.
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    bc, with a 5k bankroll the base bet would be $25, $10k the base bet would be $100. the goal is to reach $100, then play it by ear.
     
    gimmedempoints
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    Posted: Oct. 13, 2009 - 11:36 AM ET #7

    Getting bored would be a huge factor I think...in Vegas, people say "there's so much to do" and there is, but it's not all free. I have a group of buddies who moved out there last year, and all 4-5 of them have survived so far. They play alot of poker online to stay out of the casinos. Just not sure I could handle being so close to all the action...would need some getting used to, and some self control. So yes, over time you should be able to manage your time and money better.
     
    BOL
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    Getting bored would be a huge factor I think...in Vegas, people say "there's so much to do" and there is, but it's not all free. I have a group of buddies who moved out there last year, and all 4-5 of them have survived so far. They play alot of poker online to stay out of the casinos. Just not sure I could handle being so close to all the action...would need some getting used to, and some self control. So yes, over time you should be able to manage your time and money better.
     
    BOL
     
    666LES
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    Posted: Oct. 14, 2009 - 4:39 PM ET #8

    Iuse to live in LV and paid the rent by betting.The only people who made a living playing tables were cheaters or owned the games.Even counters only turned the vig to a +2% which equealed an advatage of maybe 2or3 bets per hour.I had to think like a lizard and seek a rock during the day from 10am - 2pm. I saw every movie that hit the multiplex and would take long drives into the desert,anything to stay out of the casino. A saving grace was the Cubs games started at 11 am.The first bet of the month use to pay the rent and you had to cover the nut first thing.
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    Iuse to live in LV and paid the rent by betting.The only people who made a living playing tables were cheaters or owned the games.Even counters only turned the vig to a +2% which equealed an advatage of maybe 2or3 bets per hour.I had to think like a lizard and seek a rock during the day from 10am - 2pm. I saw every movie that hit the multiplex and would take long drives into the desert,anything to stay out of the casino. A saving grace was the Cubs games started at 11 am.The first bet of the month use to pay the rent and you had to cover the nut first thing.
     
    tomslicksta
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    Posted: Oct. 14, 2009 - 7:31 PM ET #9

    I live in Vegas. People here like to say that the average lifespan of a new resident is 6 months to 5 years. In other words, many burn out quickly because they gamble too much and learn that hard way that the house wins in the long run.

    The folks who survive past the first 6 months get tired of the heat, tourists, etc. after a few summers and eventually leave, too.

    That said, I have met a couple of guys who play poker for a living.
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    I live in Vegas. People here like to say that the average lifespan of a new resident is 6 months to 5 years. In other words, many burn out quickly because they gamble too much and learn that hard way that the house wins in the long run.

    The folks who survive past the first 6 months get tired of the heat, tourists, etc. after a few summers and eventually leave, too.

    That said, I have met a couple of guys who play poker for a living.
     
    gunonenic
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    Posted: Oct. 15, 2009 - 1:48 AM ET #10

    points- I'm curious to know why they moved to vegas to pursuit online poker?
     
    les- yeah, that does sound like an easy way to make a hard living. I know nothing about counting. ok, if you can have that advantage of 2-3 hands per hour then you can actually make a pretty decent living. of course, there will be days when you're down 2-3 units for the first hour and have to play catch up, but the key is will you be able to have more good sessions than bad?
     
    toms, if I was making a decent living off gambling the least of my worries would be the weather and tourists. to be frank, I think they left because they, like you said, gambled too much and lost their bankroll.
     
    we have a good discussion going, but what I really want to know is the best table games to focus on. to me that means it's a game you can win more than you lose, and when you lose it's still a manageable amount. if you hit a bad streak you can still recover without substantially raising your bets. I don't expect anybody who does this for a living to share their trade secrets, but I'd appreciate a point in the right direction. from there I can do my own homework and research.
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    points- I'm curious to know why they moved to vegas to pursuit online poker?
     
    les- yeah, that does sound like an easy way to make a hard living. I know nothing about counting. ok, if you can have that advantage of 2-3 hands per hour then you can actually make a pretty decent living. of course, there will be days when you're down 2-3 units for the first hour and have to play catch up, but the key is will you be able to have more good sessions than bad?
     
    toms, if I was making a decent living off gambling the least of my worries would be the weather and tourists. to be frank, I think they left because they, like you said, gambled too much and lost their bankroll.
     
    we have a good discussion going, but what I really want to know is the best table games to focus on. to me that means it's a game you can win more than you lose, and when you lose it's still a manageable amount. if you hit a bad streak you can still recover without substantially raising your bets. I don't expect anybody who does this for a living to share their trade secrets, but I'd appreciate a point in the right direction. from there I can do my own homework and research.
     
    gimmedempoints
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    Posted: Oct. 15, 2009 - 9:51 AM ET #11

    Quote Originally Posted by gunonenic:

    points- I'm curious to know why they moved to vegas to pursuit online poker?
     
    we have a good discussion going, but what I really want to know is the best table games to focus on. to me that means it's a game you can win more than you lose, and when you lose it's still a manageable amount. if you hit a bad streak you can still recover without substantially raising your bets. I don't expect anybody who does this for a living to share their trade secrets, but I'd appreciate a point in the right direction. from there I can do my own homework and research.

    They've been playing online poker since they were 16...and that's how they've been able to grow their bankroll. So they play online to just change things up.

    To answer what game to play...the pass line in craps has the best odds. When I played, it bored me. I'm used to playing bj where the action moves alot quicker.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gunonenic:

    points- I'm curious to know why they moved to vegas to pursuit online poker?
     
    we have a good discussion going, but what I really want to know is the best table games to focus on. to me that means it's a game you can win more than you lose, and when you lose it's still a manageable amount. if you hit a bad streak you can still recover without substantially raising your bets. I don't expect anybody who does this for a living to share their trade secrets, but I'd appreciate a point in the right direction. from there I can do my own homework and research.

    They've been playing online poker since they were 16...and that's how they've been able to grow their bankroll. So they play online to just change things up.

    To answer what game to play...the pass line in craps has the best odds. When I played, it bored me. I'm used to playing bj where the action moves alot quicker.

     
    tomslicksta
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    Posted: Oct. 15, 2009 - 12:04 PM ET #12

    Agree with gimmedempoints.

    Frank Rosenthal (the guy De Niro portrays!) once said that the best bet in the casino is pass line on craps. This doesn't fit gunonenic's criteria for money management.

    Ah craps. She's a finicky game, really streaky.
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    Agree with gimmedempoints.

    Frank Rosenthal (the guy De Niro portrays!) once said that the best bet in the casino is pass line on craps. This doesn't fit gunonenic's criteria for money management.

    Ah craps. She's a finicky game, really streaky.
     
    VegasSound
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    Posted: Oct. 15, 2009 - 1:21 PM ET #13

    A couple friends of mine moved out here roughly 4 years ago to play poker.  The one I am closes with just recently moved back to his home state a few weeks ago.  I believe he not only went on a back streak over the last few months, but he also wanted to focus on other things, and realizes that the Casinos will always be here.

    I never asked what his bankroll (not my business) was when he originally came out here, but being able to make it just off poker, and being here for 4 years is successful to me.

    I think you can make a living off the tables and poker here, but I have my doubts about the table games.



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    A couple friends of mine moved out here roughly 4 years ago to play poker.  The one I am closes with just recently moved back to his home state a few weeks ago.  I believe he not only went on a back streak over the last few months, but he also wanted to focus on other things, and realizes that the Casinos will always be here.

    I never asked what his bankroll (not my business) was when he originally came out here, but being able to make it just off poker, and being here for 4 years is successful to me.

    I think you can make a living off the tables and poker here, but I have my doubts about the table games.



     
    bigkat
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    Posted: Oct. 15, 2009 - 2:38 PM ET #14

    The Greed is what will get you in my opinion. The only reason I am not up damn near seven figures in my life off of gambling is because, I AM GREEDY & HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO $$ MANAGEMENT. I have had plenty of sessions where I've flown into vegas on Friday with 7k. On Sunday morning I'm up 8k for a total of 15k. On Sunday, I decide to GO harder & bet a MINIMUM of $1000 per spin & I ALWAYS crash & burn. As far as sports betting goes, I cap games at around 70% but HAVE NO $ MANAGEMENT. Two summers ago at TheGreek, I sent $2500 on a 3 team parlay & won $13,308. Over the next month I built it to 43k betting anywhere between 500-1500 on 4 or 5 games a day during BASEBALL. I took out 9k & paid off my Navigator. Spent about 5k on plasma tv's & wife. Went to Vegas & lost 5k on Winky. Spent about 3k on champagne & broads. Came back & got cocky & one day bet 2grand a piece on 7 baseball games in the blind (meaning I did not study & follow my normal routine I just clicked buttons & said hey the worst I can go is 50/50). I LOST ALL 7 games and 16k. So out of 40k profit over a month, I only put like 10k to good use & the 30k was lost back or spent foolishly. GREED!!
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    The Greed is what will get you in my opinion. The only reason I am not up damn near seven figures in my life off of gambling is because, I AM GREEDY & HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO $$ MANAGEMENT. I have had plenty of sessions where I've flown into vegas on Friday with 7k. On Sunday morning I'm up 8k for a total of 15k. On Sunday, I decide to GO harder & bet a MINIMUM of $1000 per spin & I ALWAYS crash & burn. As far as sports betting goes, I cap games at around 70% but HAVE NO $ MANAGEMENT. Two summers ago at TheGreek, I sent $2500 on a 3 team parlay & won $13,308. Over the next month I built it to 43k betting anywhere between 500-1500 on 4 or 5 games a day during BASEBALL. I took out 9k & paid off my Navigator. Spent about 5k on plasma tv's & wife. Went to Vegas & lost 5k on Winky. Spent about 3k on champagne & broads. Came back & got cocky & one day bet 2grand a piece on 7 baseball games in the blind (meaning I did not study & follow my normal routine I just clicked buttons & said hey the worst I can go is 50/50). I LOST ALL 7 games and 16k. So out of 40k profit over a month, I only put like 10k to good use & the 30k was lost back or spent foolishly. GREED!!
     
    bigkat
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    Posted: Oct. 15, 2009 - 2:45 PM ET #15

    Your question about making a living depends on your bankroll but MORE IMPORTANTLY, WHAT KIND/STYLE OF BETTER YOU ARE. Example: Some guys use "units" & only have "set" amounts regardless of the game. For me I'm a "FEEL" bettor. Meaning, I bet how I feel. Now, I hypothesize that in the long run playing the %'s will work better but that's not me. If I'm on the fence a little I might bet $400 on a game. But, if I "SEE IT" I must bet at least $1500. (Word of caution I have gotten burned many times by going 3-0 then the game I really like, I "BET IT ALL" and LOSE. But %wise I'm still 4-1 but BROKE). So, maintaining a profit over a period of time has a lot to do with WHAT TYPE OF GAMBLER SOMEONE IS...
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    Your question about making a living depends on your bankroll but MORE IMPORTANTLY, WHAT KIND/STYLE OF BETTER YOU ARE. Example: Some guys use "units" & only have "set" amounts regardless of the game. For me I'm a "FEEL" bettor. Meaning, I bet how I feel. Now, I hypothesize that in the long run playing the %'s will work better but that's not me. If I'm on the fence a little I might bet $400 on a game. But, if I "SEE IT" I must bet at least $1500. (Word of caution I have gotten burned many times by going 3-0 then the game I really like, I "BET IT ALL" and LOSE. But %wise I'm still 4-1 but BROKE). So, maintaining a profit over a period of time has a lot to do with WHAT TYPE OF GAMBLER SOMEONE IS...
     
    gimmedempoints
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    Posted: Oct. 15, 2009 - 3:02 PM ET #16

    Bigkat-So this is way you get a shit ton of comps
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    Bigkat-So this is way you get a shit ton of comps
     
    zooyorkinc
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    Posted: Oct. 15, 2009 - 5:09 PM ET #17

    you hit the nail on the head in post #3.  MB is the way to go...no need to move to Vegas and get shitty odds.
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    you hit the nail on the head in post #3.  MB is the way to go...no need to move to Vegas and get shitty odds.
     
    rockonova
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    Posted: Oct. 21, 2009 - 2:19 PM ET #18

    How's your research coming along, definitive or inconclusive?
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    How's your research coming along, definitive or inconclusive?
     
    BURG2VEGAS
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    Posted: Oct. 28, 2009 - 1:58 AM ET #19

    Quote Originally Posted by bigkat:

    The Greed is what will get you in my opinion. The only reason I am not up damn near seven figures in my life off of gambling is because, I AM GREEDY & HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO $$ MANAGEMENT. I have had plenty of sessions where I've flown into vegas on Friday with 7k. On Sunday morning I'm up 8k for a total of 15k. On Sunday, I decide to GO harder & bet a MINIMUM of $1000 per spin & I ALWAYS crash & burn. As far as sports betting goes, I cap games at around 70% but HAVE NO $ MANAGEMENT. Two summers ago at TheGreek, I sent $2500 on a 3 team parlay & won $13,308. Over the next month I built it to 43k betting anywhere between 500-1500 on 4 or 5 games a day during BASEBALL. I took out 9k & paid off my Navigator. Spent about 5k on plasma tv's & wife. Went to Vegas & lost 5k on Winky. Spent about 3k on champagne & broads. Came back & got cocky & one day bet 2grand a piece on 7 baseball games in the blind (meaning I did not study & follow my normal routine I just clicked buttons & said hey the worst I can go is 50/50). I LOST ALL 7 games and 16k. So out of 40k profit over a month, I only put like 10k to good use & the 30k was lost back or spent foolishly. GREED!!
    i hve been down this road several times
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigkat:

    The Greed is what will get you in my opinion. The only reason I am not up damn near seven figures in my life off of gambling is because, I AM GREEDY & HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO $$ MANAGEMENT. I have had plenty of sessions where I've flown into vegas on Friday with 7k. On Sunday morning I'm up 8k for a total of 15k. On Sunday, I decide to GO harder & bet a MINIMUM of $1000 per spin & I ALWAYS crash & burn. As far as sports betting goes, I cap games at around 70% but HAVE NO $ MANAGEMENT. Two summers ago at TheGreek, I sent $2500 on a 3 team parlay & won $13,308. Over the next month I built it to 43k betting anywhere between 500-1500 on 4 or 5 games a day during BASEBALL. I took out 9k & paid off my Navigator. Spent about 5k on plasma tv's & wife. Went to Vegas & lost 5k on Winky. Spent about 3k on champagne & broads. Came back & got cocky & one day bet 2grand a piece on 7 baseball games in the blind (meaning I did not study & follow my normal routine I just clicked buttons & said hey the worst I can go is 50/50). I LOST ALL 7 games and 16k. So out of 40k profit over a month, I only put like 10k to good use & the 30k was lost back or spent foolishly. GREED!!
    i hve been down this road several times
     
    cts99
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    Posted: Oct. 28, 2009 - 8:56 PM ET #20

    I have friend that 6 or7 years ago went out vegas and played video poker full time. He had it wired he would stay in different hotels 3 to 4 days then move to another. He would stay up to 24 days a trip.His key was the comps and cash back and the cash coupons he would get in the mail.The coupons have nothing to do with the points you earn on your players club card.Those points turn into cash back and comps. His goal was 300 per day.He kept a book with the casiono the time of day he played the machine he played, the game he played the whole works.He used 1 of those pen like tape recorders to keep track.He also every day took his profit right to the bank. He had 4 or five different banks and kept a low profile.All i can say as what he told me he came home last year and said vegas has stop alot of the comps and cash back the machines seem to very tight.This man netted well over a 100k per year in wins and comps and cash back. The guy is ice sticks to a plan and does not have and ego.
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    I have friend that 6 or7 years ago went out vegas and played video poker full time. He had it wired he would stay in different hotels 3 to 4 days then move to another. He would stay up to 24 days a trip.His key was the comps and cash back and the cash coupons he would get in the mail.The coupons have nothing to do with the points you earn on your players club card.Those points turn into cash back and comps. His goal was 300 per day.He kept a book with the casiono the time of day he played the machine he played, the game he played the whole works.He used 1 of those pen like tape recorders to keep track.He also every day took his profit right to the bank. He had 4 or five different banks and kept a low profile.All i can say as what he told me he came home last year and said vegas has stop alot of the comps and cash back the machines seem to very tight.This man netted well over a 100k per year in wins and comps and cash back. The guy is ice sticks to a plan and does not have and ego.
     
    choiOi
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    Posted: Oct. 29, 2009 - 12:39 PM ET #21

    What I would do is roam around the Routlette table and if you slow down and watch, there's always sombody here and there hitting black or red big like 500-1000. Just bet the opposite of that person and you will cash. LOL.

    Saw this guy bet $1000 on black 7 straight times and lost all 7 times. Just throw in 200-300 on red and you will cash,,,yeah you'll pissed the dude off but it's as good as GOLD.

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    What I would do is roam around the Routlette table and if you slow down and watch, there's always sombody here and there hitting black or red big like 500-1000. Just bet the opposite of that person and you will cash. LOL.

    Saw this guy bet $1000 on black 7 straight times and lost all 7 times. Just throw in 200-300 on red and you will cash,,,yeah you'll pissed the dude off but it's as good as GOLD.

     
    bigjoebaby
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    Posted: Oct. 29, 2009 - 5:39 PM ET #22

    Quote Originally Posted by gunonenic:

    Let's say your goal is min $3k a month, 4-6k on a really good month. So that's anywhere from $100-200 per day on average, grinding it out 7 days per week, making different rounds around town, keeping a low profile by betting table min or greens....or if you're an advantage player bet higher denomination (hit and run) and be extremely selective. What kind of bankroll would you need for that type of return (I'm thinking around $10k for greens and $25k for blacks), what would be the loss stop (per session/per day), and what kind of table games would the most versatile and beatable in the long term?
     
    I know many of you are thinking if it was that easy then there will be no casinos. But remember, your goal is $100-200 per day. You're not a tourist looking to make a killing on your trip. True, somedays you will make that in one minute, and somedays after 2 hours you're only breaking even, or might be down a couple of hundred. 
     
    Yes, as someone have said, "it's a hard way to make an easy living". But can you make a living at it, year in and year out, and if yes, are the sacrifices worth it?
     
     

     

    No but BOL if you try  

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    Quote Originally Posted by gunonenic:

    Let's say your goal is min $3k a month, 4-6k on a really good month. So that's anywhere from $100-200 per day on average, grinding it out 7 days per week, making different rounds around town, keeping a low profile by betting table min or greens....or if you're an advantage player bet higher denomination (hit and run) and be extremely selective. What kind of bankroll would you need for that type of return (I'm thinking around $10k for greens and $25k for blacks), what would be the loss stop (per session/per day), and what kind of table games would the most versatile and beatable in the long term?
     
    I know many of you are thinking if it was that easy then there will be no casinos. But remember, your goal is $100-200 per day. You're not a tourist looking to make a killing on your trip. True, somedays you will make that in one minute, and somedays after 2 hours you're only breaking even, or might be down a couple of hundred. 
     
    Yes, as someone have said, "it's a hard way to make an easy living". But can you make a living at it, year in and year out, and if yes, are the sacrifices worth it?
     
     

     

    No but BOL if you try  

     
    jhudd70
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    Posted: Oct. 31, 2009 - 9:35 AM ET #23

    Very tough thing to do. Maybe easier if your skilled at poker and/or sportsbetting. Either way, mm, and the dicipline to stay away from all the other evils this town offers is the real key. 
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    Very tough thing to do. Maybe easier if your skilled at poker and/or sportsbetting. Either way, mm, and the dicipline to stay away from all the other evils this town offers is the real key. 
     
    bookiesniper
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    Posted: Oct. 31, 2009 - 4:10 PM ET #24

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    Fugettaboutit
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    Posted: Oct. 31, 2009 - 5:55 PM ET #25

    seems like poker is the way to go, sports betting is too much of a grind
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    seems like poker is the way to go, sports betting is too much of a grind
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