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    The Blog you have waited for, plus Money Ball 10.17.12

    12 Next Last»
    KeyElement
    The-OG-GunClapa
    kimoinsd808
    digbick1969
    Teaser78
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    12 Next Last»
     
    KeyElement
    KeyElement
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    Posted: Oct. 17, 2012 - 12:04 PM ET #1

    The case for flat amount wagering.

    There has NEVER been even one definitive, mathematical study done that justifies “adding the juice.” NOT ONE.

    The concept of adding the juice presupposes that the favorite should in fact be the favorite, will probably win, and therefore is worthy of added risk. The problem is, whether you add the juice or flat play you are already accepting added risk, because even with flat play your ROI (Return On Investment) will be less than even money.

    Let’s examine the definition of “Unit.” Do not most baseball gamblers have two different descriptions of “Unit”? Will they not tell you “sometimes it is the amount you risk (underdog), and sometimes it is the amount you are trying to win (favorite). In that case they make the wagering “Unit” two entirely different things, which is illogical. The justification is normally described as “the higher probability of the favorite winning” which, in reality is true only 57% of the time. That number is not incorrect. Over the course of ten years or so MLB favorites will win about 57% of all games played. No mistake, no typo. Let me digress a moment. Sanford Wong, in his totally worthless book “Sharp Sports Betting”, advocates laying the juice with favorites and short playing the dogs to always win one unit. That method puts the desired profit 100% in control of the wager. One simple reason why that is foolish, if not ignorant and/or stupid:

    Profit can not be controlled, only risk can be controlled. Making the target profit the goal of the wager, to win a certain amount, puts the profit in control and ignores the risk. Illogical (and don’t start calling me Mr. Spock, lol). If such a player will average, or better yet median, all his wagers he will find out exactly what his true wagering unit is, the amount put at risk to win (or lose) whatever number of units he netted. The unit should never be thought of as two entirely separate and different things, again, illogical.

    Now, does not the added juice stop many a player from wagering on a high odds favorite that is most likely going to win? Sure it does. He likes a -175 favorite, but says “I don’t want to pay all that juice” and I don’t blame him. If his normal wager is around $100, $175 looks like a huge price and will eat a nasty hunk of his bankroll if it loses. Later that night he checks the scores and sure enough, it won, but he didn’t have anything on it. If he had flat played his $100 his profit would have been $57.14 and he would be a happy camper. If he lost, he would not have lost any more than he loses on any other wager, NBFD.

    How much difference are we really talking about? Let’s take that overall win rate of 57% and work with it. If a team has a 57% probability of winning and is quoted at -132 you are very near the break even point for risk versus reward. If you lay $132 to win $100 the ROI is 75.76%. If you lay a flat $100, the profit is $75.76 and the ROI is still 75.76%, you have simply accepted $24.24 less profit and avoided 32% more risk. Make sense? Of course it does.

    If I asked anyone to remember anything about this blog it would be:

    In business, life, gambling or any other venture,

    Profit can not be controlled, only risk can be controlled.

    One more quote from Grantland Rice, if you please

    “A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows the public opinion.”

    Now and then even a BLIND squirrel can find an acorn
    Reply
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    To remove first post, remove entire topic.

    The case for flat amount wagering.

    There has NEVER been even one definitive, mathematical study done that justifies “adding the juice.” NOT ONE.

    The concept of adding the juice presupposes that the favorite should in fact be the favorite, will probably win, and therefore is worthy of added risk. The problem is, whether you add the juice or flat play you are already accepting added risk, because even with flat play your ROI (Return On Investment) will be less than even money.

    Let’s examine the definition of “Unit.” Do not most baseball gamblers have two different descriptions of “Unit”? Will they not tell you “sometimes it is the amount you risk (underdog), and sometimes it is the amount you are trying to win (favorite). In that case they make the wagering “Unit” two entirely different things, which is illogical. The justification is normally described as “the higher probability of the favorite winning” which, in reality is true only 57% of the time. That number is not incorrect. Over the course of ten years or so MLB favorites will win about 57% of all games played. No mistake, no typo. Let me digress a moment. Sanford Wong, in his totally worthless book “Sharp Sports Betting”, advocates laying the juice with favorites and short playing the dogs to always win one unit. That method puts the desired profit 100% in control of the wager. One simple reason why that is foolish, if not ignorant and/or stupid:

    Profit can not be controlled, only risk can be controlled. Making the target profit the goal of the wager, to win a certain amount, puts the profit in control and ignores the risk. Illogical (and don’t start calling me Mr. Spock, lol). If such a player will average, or better yet median, all his wagers he will find out exactly what his true wagering unit is, the amount put at risk to win (or lose) whatever number of units he netted. The unit should never be thought of as two entirely separate and different things, again, illogical.

    Now, does not the added juice stop many a player from wagering on a high odds favorite that is most likely going to win? Sure it does. He likes a -175 favorite, but says “I don’t want to pay all that juice” and I don’t blame him. If his normal wager is around $100, $175 looks like a huge price and will eat a nasty hunk of his bankroll if it loses. Later that night he checks the scores and sure enough, it won, but he didn’t have anything on it. If he had flat played his $100 his profit would have been $57.14 and he would be a happy camper. If he lost, he would not have lost any more than he loses on any other wager, NBFD.

    How much difference are we really talking about? Let’s take that overall win rate of 57% and work with it. If a team has a 57% probability of winning and is quoted at -132 you are very near the break even point for risk versus reward. If you lay $132 to win $100 the ROI is 75.76%. If you lay a flat $100, the profit is $75.76 and the ROI is still 75.76%, you have simply accepted $24.24 less profit and avoided 32% more risk. Make sense? Of course it does.

    If I asked anyone to remember anything about this blog it would be:

    In business, life, gambling or any other venture,

    Profit can not be controlled, only risk can be controlled.

    One more quote from Grantland Rice, if you please

    “A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows the public opinion.”

     
    The-OG-GunClapa
    The-OG-GunClapa
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    Posted: Oct. 17, 2012 - 12:08 PM ET #2

    Your a wise man key
    Thank you for all your time and effort. You've definitely helped me in my daily approach and for that I'm greatful.
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    Your a wise man key
    Thank you for all your time and effort. You've definitely helped me in my daily approach and for that I'm greatful.
     
    kimoinsd808
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    Posted: Oct. 17, 2012 - 12:12 PM ET #3

    Bitcoin, not crypto.
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    digbick1969
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    Posted: Oct. 17, 2012 - 12:13 PM ET #4

    Nice post Key. Much appreciated.
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    Nice post Key. Much appreciated.
     
    Teaser78
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    Posted: Oct. 17, 2012 - 12:13 PM ET #5

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    KeyElement
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    Posted: Oct. 17, 2012 - 12:18 PM ET #6

    Final Regular Season YTD 2012: 363-369-37, +245.87 Units, 6.72% ROI

    2012 Playoffs: 11-5-3, +24.79 Units, 37.2% ROI

    All Plays Are 5 Units, FLAT, Do NOT “add the juice”

    Sunday: Tigers F5 +135, FG +134 (Sanchez / Kuroda) Push, Win

    Monday: Cardinals @ Giants (Carpenter / / Vogelsong) F5 Over 3.5, -110 FG Over 6.5, -110, W,W

    Tuesday: Yankees @ Tigers (Hughes / Verlander) No Play

    Wednesday: Giants +116 (Cain / Lohse)

    BOL

    Now and then even a BLIND squirrel can find an acorn
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    Final Regular Season YTD 2012: 363-369-37, +245.87 Units, 6.72% ROI

    2012 Playoffs: 11-5-3, +24.79 Units, 37.2% ROI

    All Plays Are 5 Units, FLAT, Do NOT “add the juice”

    Sunday: Tigers F5 +135, FG +134 (Sanchez / Kuroda) Push, Win

    Monday: Cardinals @ Giants (Carpenter / / Vogelsong) F5 Over 3.5, -110 FG Over 6.5, -110, W,W

    Tuesday: Yankees @ Tigers (Hughes / Verlander) No Play

    Wednesday: Giants +116 (Cain / Lohse)

    BOL

     
    halofan
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    Posted: Oct. 17, 2012 - 12:19 PM ET #7

    Agreed.
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    Agreed.
     
    Mcmanus
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    Posted: Oct. 17, 2012 - 12:20 PM ET #8

    GL with the Giants now... 
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    GL with the Giants now... 
     
    ShadowWarrior
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    Posted: Oct. 17, 2012 - 12:25 PM ET #9

    Key, this advice, can it be applied to other forms of gambling say craps, black jack, etc.  or is this an application to sports wagering only?  Sorry if my question is rhetoric but I never looked at wagering from this perspective, ROI.  I only try to minimize the juice or spread by combining into money line parlays thereby risking a lesser amount to win a lesser amount because big favorites are involved or if I am lucky to find a live dog to add in the mix to make the pay out better.  I was mixing heavy tennis favs like Serena and Azarenka with MLB or Baylor Lady Bears in CBB on money line parlays last season.
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    Key, this advice, can it be applied to other forms of gambling say craps, black jack, etc.  or is this an application to sports wagering only?  Sorry if my question is rhetoric but I never looked at wagering from this perspective, ROI.  I only try to minimize the juice or spread by combining into money line parlays thereby risking a lesser amount to win a lesser amount because big favorites are involved or if I am lucky to find a live dog to add in the mix to make the pay out better.  I was mixing heavy tennis favs like Serena and Azarenka with MLB or Baylor Lady Bears in CBB on money line parlays last season.
     
    S_D_17
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    Posted: Oct. 17, 2012 - 12:27 PM ET #10

    Quote Originally Posted by KeyElement:

    The case for flat amount wagering.

    There has NEVER been even one definitive, mathematical study done that justifies “adding the juice.” NOT ONE.

    The concept of adding the juice presupposes that the favorite should in fact be the favorite, will probably win, and therefore is worthy of added risk. The problem is, whether you add the juice or flat play you are already accepting added risk, because even with flat play your ROI (Return On Investment) will be less than even money.

    Let’s examine the definition of “Unit.” Do not most baseball gamblers have two different descriptions of “Unit”? Will they not tell you “sometimes it is the amount you risk (underdog), and sometimes it is the amount you are trying to win (favorite). In that case they make the wagering “Unit” two entirely different things, which is illogical. The justification is normally described as “the higher probability of the favorite winning” which, in reality is true only 57% of the time. That number is not incorrect. Over the course of ten years or so MLB favorites will win about 57% of all games played. No mistake, no typo. Let me digress a moment. Sanford Wong, in his totally worthless book “Sharp Sports Betting”, advocates laying the juice with favorites and short playing the dogs to always win one unit. That method puts the desired profit 100% in control of the wager. One simple reason why that is foolish, if not ignorant and/or stupid:

    Profit can not be controlled, only risk can be controlled. Making the target profit the goal of the wager, to win a certain amount, puts the profit in control and ignores the risk. Illogical (and don’t start calling me Mr. Spock, lol). If such a player will average, or better yet median, all his wagers he will find out exactly what his true wagering unit is, the amount put at risk to win (or lose) whatever number of units he netted. The unit should never be thought of as two entirely separate and different things, again, illogical.

    Now, does not the added juice stop many a player from wagering on a high odds favorite that is most likely going to win? Sure it does. He likes a -175 favorite, but says “I don’t want to pay all that juice” and I don’t blame him. If his normal wager is around $100, $175 looks like a huge price and will eat a nasty hunk of his bankroll if it loses. Later that night he checks the scores and sure enough, it won, but he didn’t have anything on it. If he had flat played his $100 his profit would have been $57.14 and he would be a happy camper. If he lost, he would not have lost any more than he loses on any other wager, NBFD.

    How much difference are we really talking about? Let’s take that overall win rate of 57% and work with it. If a team has a 57% probability of winning and is quoted at -132 you are very near the break even point for risk versus reward. If you lay $132 to win $100 the ROI is 75.76%. If you lay a flat $100, the profit is $75.76 and the ROI is still 75.76%, you have simply accepted $24.24 less profit and avoided 32% more risk. Make sense? Of course it does.

    If I asked anyone to remember anything about this blog it would be:

    In business, life, gambling or any other venture,

    Profit can not be controlled, only risk can be controlled.

    One more quote from Grantland Rice, if you please

    “A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows the public opinion.”


    Great post...
    Reply
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    Report User
    Quote Originally Posted by KeyElement:

    The case for flat amount wagering.

    There has NEVER been even one definitive, mathematical study done that justifies “adding the juice.” NOT ONE.

    The concept of adding the juice presupposes that the favorite should in fact be the favorite, will probably win, and therefore is worthy of added risk. The problem is, whether you add the juice or flat play you are already accepting added risk, because even with flat play your ROI (Return On Investment) will be less than even money.

    Let’s examine the definition of “Unit.” Do not most baseball gamblers have two different descriptions of “Unit”? Will they not tell you “sometimes it is the amount you risk (underdog), and sometimes it is the amount you are trying to win (favorite). In that case they make the wagering “Unit” two entirely different things, which is illogical. The justification is normally described as “the higher probability of the favorite winning” which, in reality is true only 57% of the time. That number is not incorrect. Over the course of ten years or so MLB favorites will win about 57% of all games played. No mistake, no typo. Let me digress a moment. Sanford Wong, in his totally worthless book “Sharp Sports Betting”, advocates laying the juice with favorites and short playing the dogs to always win one unit. That method puts the desired profit 100% in control of the wager. One simple reason why that is foolish, if not ignorant and/or stupid:

    Profit can not be controlled, only risk can be controlled. Making the target profit the goal of the wager, to win a certain amount, puts the profit in control and ignores the risk. Illogical (and don’t start calling me Mr. Spock, lol). If such a player will average, or better yet median, all his wagers he will find out exactly what his true wagering unit is, the amount put at risk to win (or lose) whatever number of units he netted. The unit should never be thought of as two entirely separate and different things, again, illogical.

    Now, does not the added juice stop many a player from wagering on a high odds favorite that is most likely going to win? Sure it does. He likes a -175 favorite, but says “I don’t want to pay all that juice” and I don’t blame him. If his normal wager is around $100, $175 looks like a huge price and will eat a nasty hunk of his bankroll if it loses. Later that night he checks the scores and sure enough, it won, but he didn’t have anything on it. If he had flat played his $100 his profit would have been $57.14 and he would be a happy camper. If he lost, he would not have lost any more than he loses on any other wager, NBFD.

    How much difference are we really talking about? Let’s take that overall win rate of 57% and work with it. If a team has a 57% probability of winning and is quoted at -132 you are very near the break even point for risk versus reward. If you lay $132 to win $100 the ROI is 75.76%. If you lay a flat $100, the profit is $75.76 and the ROI is still 75.76%, you have simply accepted $24.24 less profit and avoided 32% more risk. Make sense? Of course it does.

    If I asked anyone to remember anything about this blog it would be:

    In business, life, gambling or any other venture,

    Profit can not be controlled, only risk can be controlled.

    One more quote from Grantland Rice, if you please

    “A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows the public opinion.”


    Great post...
     
    Donnie_Baseball
    Donnie_Baseball
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    Posted: Oct. 17, 2012 - 12:38 PM ET #11

    Betting to win on faves and flat betting unit size on dogs just limits variance. Most people that gamble lose, and limiting variance is much more comfortable for them. It makes gambling less stressful as for a loser their will be more downswings than upswings, and betting to win on faves and flat betting dogs will cause large downswings to hit much less often. 

    It's also the idea of betting on a team that is statistically 'more likely to win' regardless of the EV of the actual bet given the odds one gets. Psychologically, MANY people just want to bet on the team that will win more often regardless of odds. (There's no juice when you win theory)

    Also, I'm sure everyone understands why it's tougher psychologically for a recreational gambler to pull the trigger betting $100 to win $200 on a +200 dog than $100 to win $50 on a -200 fave, even if ROIs are somehow proven to be the same on both plays in the long run. The fact is that they will lose their $100 far less if they bet the favorite. It honestly doesn't register as clearly that they are being paid 4x on the dog as they are on the fave, they want to pick a winner. At -200/200 with a 65% win rate for the fave and 35% win rate for the dog proven and established, there would be those at covers that would take the favorite.

    The fact is just that psychology and human nature dictate that people are loss averse to the point they would rather win 2/3 of their bets than 1/3, even if given the odds they can make slightly more winning 1/3... of course at the time of wagering, they cannot prove this to themselves as a fact either way, which makes it even easier psychologically to take favorites, as usually the favorite is the better team.


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    Betting to win on faves and flat betting unit size on dogs just limits variance. Most people that gamble lose, and limiting variance is much more comfortable for them. It makes gambling less stressful as for a loser their will be more downswings than upswings, and betting to win on faves and flat betting dogs will cause large downswings to hit much less often. 

    It's also the idea of betting on a team that is statistically 'more likely to win' regardless of the EV of the actual bet given the odds one gets. Psychologically, MANY people just want to bet on the team that will win more often regardless of odds. (There's no juice when you win theory)

    Also, I'm sure everyone understands why it's tougher psychologically for a recreational gambler to pull the trigger betting $100 to win $200 on a +200 dog than $100 to win $50 on a -200 fave, even if ROIs are somehow proven to be the same on both plays in the long run. The fact is that they will lose their $100 far less if they bet the favorite. It honestly doesn't register as clearly that they are being paid 4x on the dog as they are on the fave, they want to pick a winner. At -200/200 with a 65% win rate for the fave and 35% win rate for the dog proven and established, there would be those at covers that would take the favorite.

    The fact is just that psychology and human nature dictate that people are loss averse to the point they would rather win 2/3 of their bets than 1/3, even if given the odds they can make slightly more winning 1/3... of course at the time of wagering, they cannot prove this to themselves as a fact either way, which makes it even easier psychologically to take favorites, as usually the favorite is the better team.


     
    5t4r5align
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    Posted: Oct. 17, 2012 - 12:44 PM ET #12

    nice thx 
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    nice thx 
     
    cardifkill
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    Posted: Oct. 17, 2012 - 12:46 PM ET #13


    Thanks Key.

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    Thanks Key.

     
    GiLmo574
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    Posted: Oct. 17, 2012 - 12:55 PM ET #14

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    Tigermike1975
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    Posted: Oct. 17, 2012 - 1:02 PM ET #15

    I dont play a lot of individual games in the playoffs but the numbers add up to a Giants play for me today as well. Good luck and let's get this one.
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    I dont play a lot of individual games in the playoffs but the numbers add up to a Giants play for me today as well. Good luck and let's get this one.
     
    redsox5831
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    Posted: Oct. 17, 2012 - 1:05 PM ET #16

    this is good info.. I'll admit im the guy who bets to win $100 on favorites and bets $100 on dogs..

    Next season I plan to take your strategy and lay $100 per play regardless.. thanks Key!

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    this is good info.. I'll admit im the guy who bets to win $100 on favorites and bets $100 on dogs..

    Next season I plan to take your strategy and lay $100 per play regardless.. thanks Key!

     
    2211nfl
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    Posted: Oct. 17, 2012 - 1:12 PM ET #17

    Key--I assume the SF to be a 9 inn play?

    Thanks for the Blog

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    Key--I assume the SF to be a 9 inn play?

    Thanks for the Blog

     
    KeyElement
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    Posted: Oct. 17, 2012 - 1:29 PM ET #18

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowWarrior:

    Key, this advice, can it be applied to other forms of gambling say craps, black jack, etc.  or is this an application to sports wagering only?  Sorry if my question is rhetoric but I never looked at wagering from this perspective, ROI.  I only try to minimize the juice or spread by combining into money line parlays thereby risking a lesser amount to win a lesser amount because big favorites are involved or if I am lucky to find a live dog to add in the mix to make the pay out better.  I was mixing heavy tennis favs like Serena and Azarenka with MLB or Baylor Lady Bears in CBB on money line parlays last season.
    I am no expert on craps but my initial reaction would be no. If I were to play craps I would in fact vary my wagers because of the varying probability in a static odds game, i.e., the probability of any given number or combination is exactly the same every time the dice are tossed. In blackjack a card counter absolutely must vary he size of his wagers to maximize profit, but an amateur playing basic strategy probably should never do so. That person should only maximize profit by always splitting and doubling down at the correct times. Parlaying, no matter how attractive the payoff, always increases true risk exponentially. I only very rarely parlay then limit myself to two teamers. If I feel particularly good about a large card on a given day, I will still do round robin two teamers instead of a 5, 7, or 10 teamer. I know we see a few hit around here every season, but with the millions of parlays played that should just be expected, it does not justify the theory. A local bookie once told me that his volume during football season was so high he didn't even need to beat straight action players, the parlay losses would make him a living.
    Now and then even a BLIND squirrel can find an acorn
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowWarrior:

    Key, this advice, can it be applied to other forms of gambling say craps, black jack, etc.  or is this an application to sports wagering only?  Sorry if my question is rhetoric but I never looked at wagering from this perspective, ROI.  I only try to minimize the juice or spread by combining into money line parlays thereby risking a lesser amount to win a lesser amount because big favorites are involved or if I am lucky to find a live dog to add in the mix to make the pay out better.  I was mixing heavy tennis favs like Serena and Azarenka with MLB or Baylor Lady Bears in CBB on money line parlays last season.
    I am no expert on craps but my initial reaction would be no. If I were to play craps I would in fact vary my wagers because of the varying probability in a static odds game, i.e., the probability of any given number or combination is exactly the same every time the dice are tossed. In blackjack a card counter absolutely must vary he size of his wagers to maximize profit, but an amateur playing basic strategy probably should never do so. That person should only maximize profit by always splitting and doubling down at the correct times. Parlaying, no matter how attractive the payoff, always increases true risk exponentially. I only very rarely parlay then limit myself to two teamers. If I feel particularly good about a large card on a given day, I will still do round robin two teamers instead of a 5, 7, or 10 teamer. I know we see a few hit around here every season, but with the millions of parlays played that should just be expected, it does not justify the theory. A local bookie once told me that his volume during football season was so high he didn't even need to beat straight action players, the parlay losses would make him a living.
     
    KeyElement
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    Posted: Oct. 17, 2012 - 1:34 PM ET #19

    Quote Originally Posted by 2211nfl:

    Key--I assume the SF to be a 9 inn play?

    Thanks for the Blog

    Yes, not my normal self today or I would have specified that. Sorry,

    Now and then even a BLIND squirrel can find an acorn
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2211nfl:

    Key--I assume the SF to be a 9 inn play?

    Thanks for the Blog

    Yes, not my normal self today or I would have specified that. Sorry,

     
    ELGALLO
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    Posted: Oct. 17, 2012 - 1:56 PM ET #20

    BOL KEY  TODAY

    AND  THANKS FOR CLEARING UP  THE LAYING THE JUICE AND ROI  THINGS.

    HAVE A PROFITABLE DAY MY FRIEND 
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    BOL KEY  TODAY

    AND  THANKS FOR CLEARING UP  THE LAYING THE JUICE AND ROI  THINGS.

    HAVE A PROFITABLE DAY MY FRIEND 
     
    slowphenomenon
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    Posted: Oct. 17, 2012 - 2:01 PM ET #21

    so your style of betting dictates on a -120 favourite, 100 wins 83.33 dollars. and on a +120 dog, 100 to win 120 or 83.33 to win 100? just wondering.
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    so your style of betting dictates on a -120 favourite, 100 wins 83.33 dollars. and on a +120 dog, 100 to win 120 or 83.33 to win 100? just wondering.
     
    gabs24
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    Posted: Oct. 17, 2012 - 2:17 PM ET #22

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowWarrior:

    Key, this advice, can it be applied to other forms of gambling say craps, black jack, etc.  or is this an application to sports wagering only?  Sorry if my question is rhetoric but I never looked at wagering from this perspective, ROI.  I only try to minimize the juice or spread by combining into money line parlays thereby risking a lesser amount to win a lesser amount because big favorites are involved or if I am lucky to find a live dog to add in the mix to make the pay out better.  I was mixing heavy tennis favs like Serena and Azarenka with MLB or Baylor Lady Bears in CBB on money line parlays last season.

    I wanted to comment on this post because I too love craps and have been playing for years...it really does not relate to Keys post but I thought I would share something about craps....The beauty of the game is that you are allowed to play with the house and play with the shooter at the same time...yes you will be the most hated man at the table,keep a low profile, but who cares, because when everyone is coming and going and seeing your stacks grow, they will start to talk to you and try and understand how "you do it"...now do not get me wrong, that you will definitely get run over now and again when you run into a heater, but that is where the "place" bets come in to play....as long as you play the do not pass line, and lay your odds, which is the best bet inn the entire casino, and you play your place bets you will be a highly highly profitable craps player in the long run....this goes with the fact that people like to bet the favorites, except in craps people love to bet on the pass line, even know the odds are against them...it is pyschological, and will never change

    BOL TO ALL

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowWarrior:

    Key, this advice, can it be applied to other forms of gambling say craps, black jack, etc.  or is this an application to sports wagering only?  Sorry if my question is rhetoric but I never looked at wagering from this perspective, ROI.  I only try to minimize the juice or spread by combining into money line parlays thereby risking a lesser amount to win a lesser amount because big favorites are involved or if I am lucky to find a live dog to add in the mix to make the pay out better.  I was mixing heavy tennis favs like Serena and Azarenka with MLB or Baylor Lady Bears in CBB on money line parlays last season.

    I wanted to comment on this post because I too love craps and have been playing for years...it really does not relate to Keys post but I thought I would share something about craps....The beauty of the game is that you are allowed to play with the house and play with the shooter at the same time...yes you will be the most hated man at the table,keep a low profile, but who cares, because when everyone is coming and going and seeing your stacks grow, they will start to talk to you and try and understand how "you do it"...now do not get me wrong, that you will definitely get run over now and again when you run into a heater, but that is where the "place" bets come in to play....as long as you play the do not pass line, and lay your odds, which is the best bet inn the entire casino, and you play your place bets you will be a highly highly profitable craps player in the long run....this goes with the fact that people like to bet the favorites, except in craps people love to bet on the pass line, even know the odds are against them...it is pyschological, and will never change

    BOL TO ALL

     
    KeyElement
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    Posted: Oct. 17, 2012 - 2:22 PM ET #23

    Quote Originally Posted by slowphenomenon:

    so your style of betting dictates on a -120 favourite, 100 wins 83.33 dollars. and on a +120 dog, 100 to win 120 or 83.33 to win 100? just wondering.
    The play would be $100 bet, either way. Who the public established as the dog or favorite is irrelevant. Remember, linemakers and books do not establish favorites by probability, they are businessmen that offer their customers what their customers expect to see. From opening to closing the line is adjusted depending on the incoming action, but it is NEVER the bookies opinion of probability.
    Now and then even a BLIND squirrel can find an acorn
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowphenomenon:

    so your style of betting dictates on a -120 favourite, 100 wins 83.33 dollars. and on a +120 dog, 100 to win 120 or 83.33 to win 100? just wondering.
    The play would be $100 bet, either way. Who the public established as the dog or favorite is irrelevant. Remember, linemakers and books do not establish favorites by probability, they are businessmen that offer their customers what their customers expect to see. From opening to closing the line is adjusted depending on the incoming action, but it is NEVER the bookies opinion of probability.
     
    mojo54
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    Posted: Oct. 17, 2012 - 3:08 PM ET #24

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    Da_Square
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    Posted: Oct. 17, 2012 - 3:31 PM ET #25

    Key...  One thing I don't understand is if a "unit" is a betting unit then why would every selection be 5 units?  Especially, since you don't vary the size of your bets?  Wouldn't it just make more sense to say every pick is 1 unit and YTD you are up 49.17 units. I would understand it more if you normally bet 1 unit but in this special situation you wanted to bump it up to 2 or 5. But it seems like everyone on Covers has a normal bet that is more than 1. Is it just to make the numbers larger?

    BTW. Great job this year and I love your mathematical approach to handicapping and betting. 
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    Key...  One thing I don't understand is if a "unit" is a betting unit then why would every selection be 5 units?  Especially, since you don't vary the size of your bets?  Wouldn't it just make more sense to say every pick is 1 unit and YTD you are up 49.17 units. I would understand it more if you normally bet 1 unit but in this special situation you wanted to bump it up to 2 or 5. But it seems like everyone on Covers has a normal bet that is more than 1. Is it just to make the numbers larger?

    BTW. Great job this year and I love your mathematical approach to handicapping and betting. 
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