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    All Forums | MLB Betting Forum

    There's a good chance Cliff Lee will come back to earth today in Toronto

    123 ... 161718 Next Last»
    MrBator
    LetEMride
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    sc_capper74
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    MrBator
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2011 - 6:43 AM ET #1

    After betting against Cliff Lee twice in the month of June, I finally smartened up last week and sent it on the Phillies -1.5 +175 the night Lee shutout the Red Sox, 5-0.  With that latest masterpiece, Cliff Lee completed one of the greatest months any starting pitcher has ever submitted.  Check it out:

     

    21 hits allowed in 42 innings pitched

    28 strikeouts/7 walks

    0.21 ERA (he gave up one lonely run for the whole month!)

    5 wins 0 losses

    32 consecutive shutout innings

    3 straight shutouts

     

    That's not human.  Who in their right mind would dare bet against this man right now?  Well, maybe me.  I had the Jays yesterday +160 and +1.5 -105, and it wasn't exactly a confidence-inspiring performance, but I think the time may be ripe for Lee to go out and have himself a terrible outing.

    Prior to his June 22nd start in St. Louis, I noticed something about Lee's pitch counts this season.  From April 25th to May 6th, Lee threw a total of 332 pitches in three starts.  In his next start, going on 4 days rest, Lee was so-so, lasting just 6 innings and 82 pitches while giving up 7 hits and 3 earned runs to the Marlins.  In his next three starts after that, Lee threw a ridiculous total of 356 pitches!  That seemed to catch up to him in his next start, which took place on May 31st in Washington.  Again going on 4 days rest, Lee got shelled by the Nationals, allowing 7 hits, 3 walks, and 6 earned runs before getting knocked out in the 6th inning of a 10-2 loss. 

    Then came the month of June.  The first three victims were the Dodgers, Cubs, and Marlins.  Lee threw 347 pitches in beating them all.  That's where I decided to try and fade him off of three straight taxing starts.  Lee was scheduled to pitch June 22nd in St. Louis, and was a -150 favorite against the Pujols-less Cardinals.  The one thing I didn't like about the situation, though, was that Lee was going on 5 days rest instead of 4.  I decided to plow ahead with my Lee fade anyway, taking the Cards +145.  Big mistake.  Instead of sputtering, Lee used the extra day of rest to his advantage and went 9 innings in shutting out the Deadbirds on a whopping 126 pitches.  I felt shame.

    So, I looked ahead to Lee's next turn in the rotation to see if I might try fading him off of 4 starts in which he'd thrown a staggering 473 pitches.  But I saw that his next start, which was last Wednesday against the Red Sox, would again have him enjoying 5 days of rest.  So instead of betting against him, I went with him, and Lee was The Man once again, pitching another shutout, this time throwing 112 pitches.  I felt pride.

    But now I'm again contemplating an unthinkable fade of Cliff Lee.  This time around, he's taking the ball in Toronto after throwing 585 pitches in his last 5 brilliant starts, except this time, he's going on 4 days of rest.  In his five June starts, Lee enjoyed pitching on 5 days rest three times, including the last two.  Now, though, I think he's going to show up with much less than his best stuff.  In fact, this time he's not even getting a full 4 days.  Lee is getting shorted six hours with the 1 ET start instead of the usual night game starting time.  Most everyone is expecting another string of zeroes across the scoreboard, but I'll be very surprised if he enjoys another great start.

     

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    To remove first post, remove entire topic.

    After betting against Cliff Lee twice in the month of June, I finally smartened up last week and sent it on the Phillies -1.5 +175 the night Lee shutout the Red Sox, 5-0.  With that latest masterpiece, Cliff Lee completed one of the greatest months any starting pitcher has ever submitted.  Check it out:

     

    21 hits allowed in 42 innings pitched

    28 strikeouts/7 walks

    0.21 ERA (he gave up one lonely run for the whole month!)

    5 wins 0 losses

    32 consecutive shutout innings

    3 straight shutouts

     

    That's not human.  Who in their right mind would dare bet against this man right now?  Well, maybe me.  I had the Jays yesterday +160 and +1.5 -105, and it wasn't exactly a confidence-inspiring performance, but I think the time may be ripe for Lee to go out and have himself a terrible outing.

    Prior to his June 22nd start in St. Louis, I noticed something about Lee's pitch counts this season.  From April 25th to May 6th, Lee threw a total of 332 pitches in three starts.  In his next start, going on 4 days rest, Lee was so-so, lasting just 6 innings and 82 pitches while giving up 7 hits and 3 earned runs to the Marlins.  In his next three starts after that, Lee threw a ridiculous total of 356 pitches!  That seemed to catch up to him in his next start, which took place on May 31st in Washington.  Again going on 4 days rest, Lee got shelled by the Nationals, allowing 7 hits, 3 walks, and 6 earned runs before getting knocked out in the 6th inning of a 10-2 loss. 

    Then came the month of June.  The first three victims were the Dodgers, Cubs, and Marlins.  Lee threw 347 pitches in beating them all.  That's where I decided to try and fade him off of three straight taxing starts.  Lee was scheduled to pitch June 22nd in St. Louis, and was a -150 favorite against the Pujols-less Cardinals.  The one thing I didn't like about the situation, though, was that Lee was going on 5 days rest instead of 4.  I decided to plow ahead with my Lee fade anyway, taking the Cards +145.  Big mistake.  Instead of sputtering, Lee used the extra day of rest to his advantage and went 9 innings in shutting out the Deadbirds on a whopping 126 pitches.  I felt shame.

    So, I looked ahead to Lee's next turn in the rotation to see if I might try fading him off of 4 starts in which he'd thrown a staggering 473 pitches.  But I saw that his next start, which was last Wednesday against the Red Sox, would again have him enjoying 5 days of rest.  So instead of betting against him, I went with him, and Lee was The Man once again, pitching another shutout, this time throwing 112 pitches.  I felt pride.

    But now I'm again contemplating an unthinkable fade of Cliff Lee.  This time around, he's taking the ball in Toronto after throwing 585 pitches in his last 5 brilliant starts, except this time, he's going on 4 days of rest.  In his five June starts, Lee enjoyed pitching on 5 days rest three times, including the last two.  Now, though, I think he's going to show up with much less than his best stuff.  In fact, this time he's not even getting a full 4 days.  Lee is getting shorted six hours with the 1 ET start instead of the usual night game starting time.  Most everyone is expecting another string of zeroes across the scoreboard, but I'll be very surprised if he enjoys another great start.

     

     
    MrBator
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2011 - 6:43 AM ET #2

    By the way, to bore you even further, Lee had similar troubles last year after being acquired by the Rangers in July. In his first start for Texas, after four straight workhorse starts for the Mariners, Lee was bombed in his Rangers debut.  In August, after having thrown 340 pitches in his last three starts, Lee allowed 8 hits and 4 runs in 6.1 innings in a loss to the Yankees.  In late September, after having thrown 324 pitches in his last three starts, Lee allowed 6 hits and 4 runs in just 5 innings in a loss to the A's.  Finally, in the postseason, after having thrown 346 pitches in two dominating ALDS wins over the Rays and one 8 inning gem against the Yankees, Lee was absolutely terrible in Game 1 of the World Series, thus disappointing many a square.
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    By the way, to bore you even further, Lee had similar troubles last year after being acquired by the Rangers in July. In his first start for Texas, after four straight workhorse starts for the Mariners, Lee was bombed in his Rangers debut.  In August, after having thrown 340 pitches in his last three starts, Lee allowed 8 hits and 4 runs in 6.1 innings in a loss to the Yankees.  In late September, after having thrown 324 pitches in his last three starts, Lee allowed 6 hits and 4 runs in just 5 innings in a loss to the A's.  Finally, in the postseason, after having thrown 346 pitches in two dominating ALDS wins over the Rays and one 8 inning gem against the Yankees, Lee was absolutely terrible in Game 1 of the World Series, thus disappointing many a square.
     
    LetEMride
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2011 - 6:48 AM ET #3

    Thank you. I was probably gonna put PHI in a couple parlays but will put much more thought into doing so.

    Great insights. Please continue to share.
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    Thank you. I was probably gonna put PHI in a couple parlays but will put much more thought into doing so.

    Great insights. Please continue to share.
     
    Chimpo
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2011 - 6:54 AM ET #4

      I haven't read pitch count and rest capping to this extent a long while.   I am filing this Lee stats. 

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      I haven't read pitch count and rest capping to this extent a long while.   I am filing this Lee stats. 

     
    sc_capper74
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2011 - 7:12 AM ET #5

    Good stuff Mr.Bator, BOL today!!!peace handshake
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    Good stuff Mr.Bator, BOL today!!!peace handshake
     
    docterd597
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2011 - 7:24 AM ET #6

    The only problem here is Jo-Jo Reyes but Im gonna take a shot on the Jays  and the over.
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    The only problem here is Jo-Jo Reyes but Im gonna take a shot on the Jays  and the over.
     
    Allabout$ports
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2011 - 7:40 AM ET #7

    Good stuff!!
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    Good stuff!!
     
    BigUnit
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2011 - 7:47 AM ET #8

    If you really believe this then the over might be worth a look, otherwise I would stay away.
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    If you really believe this then the over might be worth a look, otherwise I would stay away.
     
    mikeyp13
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2011 - 7:50 AM ET #9

    If there is one thing i've learned here in my time on covers, is that if the Bator speaks, you better listen! MrBator, you made me so much money in these unlikely and unprobable situations, i have no problems accepting your advice and taking the jays today!!

    Thank you kind sir, you are truly an asset to the covers community

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    If there is one thing i've learned here in my time on covers, is that if the Bator speaks, you better listen! MrBator, you made me so much money in these unlikely and unprobable situations, i have no problems accepting your advice and taking the jays today!!

    Thank you kind sir, you are truly an asset to the covers community

     
    jrhdgolf9
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2011 - 8:16 AM ET #10

    Thanks Bator..... saw the batting avg. for Toronto vs Lee and the Jays seem to hit him well. I like the over as well as the Jays to sneak a W today.
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    Thanks Bator..... saw the batting avg. for Toronto vs Lee and the Jays seem to hit him well. I like the over as well as the Jays to sneak a W today.
     
    legendsdc
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2011 - 8:19 AM ET #11

    I wish I had seen your thoughts on fading Holland in another thread last night before I backed the Rangers.  Just not sure if JoJo isn't worse than Lee on an off day.  GL
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    I wish I had seen your thoughts on fading Holland in another thread last night before I backed the Rangers.  Just not sure if JoJo isn't worse than Lee on an off day.  GL
     
    Jersey973
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2011 - 8:19 AM ET #12

    problem is....Jo-Jo Reyes is terrible, so even if Cliff Lee is off, Philly should still be able to score runs. 
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    problem is....Jo-Jo Reyes is terrible, so even if Cliff Lee is off, Philly should still be able to score runs. 
     
    Balo_drrre
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2011 - 8:28 AM ET #13

    Got anything else on your card today Bator?
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    Got anything else on your card today Bator?
     
    Jim_Tressel
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2011 - 8:30 AM ET #14

    MrBator, if possible I'm interested to get your insight in the way you go from a lean to a play. 

    You have uncovered this great statistic, you will be able to get a great price. I know you said you are contemplating a play, what will/would make you change this from a lean to an actual play?



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    MrBator, if possible I'm interested to get your insight in the way you go from a lean to a play. 

    You have uncovered this great statistic, you will be able to get a great price. I know you said you are contemplating a play, what will/would make you change this from a lean to an actual play?



     
    WillyBilliams
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2011 - 8:33 AM ET #15

    Thanks Mr. B   always great insight!!  I took Lee last night -165, hoping to buy back Reyes at +170 or better and play the over 7.5
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    Thanks Mr. B   always great insight!!  I took Lee last night -165, hoping to buy back Reyes at +170 or better and play the over 7.5
     
    si1ly
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2011 - 8:56 AM ET #16

    Great stuff Mr. B


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    Great stuff Mr. B


     
    bobby007
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2011 - 9:13 AM ET #17

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    JFEEZEE
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2011 - 9:19 AM ET #18

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    unclebruce
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2011 - 9:33 AM ET #19

    very interesting, thank-you........
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    very interesting, thank-you........
     
    EbbDibiase
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2011 - 9:34 AM ET #20

    Anything can happen but, I doubt it. JoJo is abysmal. He will get it done in my opinion. Besides, even if he is off and gives up 4 to 5 runs Reyes will never have lead IMO. Great stuff though.



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    Anything can happen but, I doubt it. JoJo is abysmal. He will get it done in my opinion. Besides, even if he is off and gives up 4 to 5 runs Reyes will never have lead IMO. Great stuff though.



     
    michaelpaul1
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2011 - 9:39 AM ET #21

    gl today bates...
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    gl today bates...
     
    DavidGurney
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2011 - 9:44 AM ET #22

    Are all pitch counts created equal?
     
    I was at Lee's game Tuesday.The humidity was at a level that would tempt all but the most devout Muslims to forego their prayers.That fact alone would lend support your theory.
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    Are all pitch counts created equal?
     
    I was at Lee's game Tuesday.The humidity was at a level that would tempt all but the most devout Muslims to forego their prayers.That fact alone would lend support your theory.
     
    Jersey973
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2011 - 9:52 AM ET #23

    Quote Originally Posted by michaelpaul1:

    gl today bates...

    surprised you showed up 
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelpaul1:

    gl today bates...

    surprised you showed up 
     
    chadebennett
    chadebennett
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2011 - 9:53 AM ET #24

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    Jersey973
    Jersey973
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2011 - 9:54 AM ET #25

    mrbator, do you get nervous when michaelpaul enters your threads? 
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    mrbator, do you get nervous when michaelpaul enters your threads? 
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