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Anyone dumb enough to still think Kobe is on the same level as Lebron as an all time great?

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Posted: #101
Quote Originally Posted by mattbrot:

Pointless thread. Please stop.

Thanks in advance.



youre back again....dont read it

thanks in advance
 
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Posted: #102
Quote Originally Posted by Sco316:

Ok let's have a real debate then. Where do Kobe and lebron rank ion the conversation of the greats? Are they  both in the top 5? This is a trick question because one is and one isn't. Where so they sit among all the greats. Are they better than MJ, Russell, wilt, jabbar, magic, bird, Oscar, Duncan? I can't wait to hear this. And when you rank lebron, ask yourself if he could play in all the other eras. Ask yourself if he would have had what it took to beat those guys every year. The comparison between Kobe and lebron is way too easy. It's Kobe, he has 5 rings. Better defender, better CLOSER, better leader, the closest you get to MJ. 

You are getting to the point of being too dumb to insult. 
 
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Posted: #103
Quote Originally Posted by The Hawk:

Disclaimer: I'm friggin' old..........

However, that doesn't keep me from marveling at athletes through the years. 

I'm not going to tell you older players are better. You can make so many arguments. Travel, # of white boys playing, scheduling (read where this one team had to play FIVE B2B!), has the number of teams diluted the talent, etc. Hell, how about drinking water vs. Gatorade while we're at it?

But.......

Rings: Bill Russell-11

Before they even called it a triple double, Oscar Robertson AVERAGED A TRIPLE DOUBLE FOR A SEASON

Saw this just this morning: In what was known as the Western Division Finals in 1965, the Baltimore Bullets had a deadly outside shooter named Don Ohl. In a six-game series against West’s Lakers, Ohl averaged 28.8 points and never had an off night. Jerry West’s point totals: 49, 52, 44, 48, 43, 42, as the Lakers moved on. People would be going nuts if any player did this today!

Just remember: Before MJ started skywalking, there was a guy named Doctor J. 
The game has surely changed with the three-pointer, you could have a separate argument just on THAT.

You can talk titles all you want, but they are a product of a team (see San Antonio Spurs)

Tell you what-I'll let you have Trent Dilfer, and I'll take Dan Marino.

 
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Posted: #104
I don't get the 2-3 argument. Do you think 2-0 is better because it makes him undefeated in the finals?? I'm not saying you should throw him a parade for making it those 3 years because of the weakness of the east but if you wanna get technical hes actually 2-9 on winning a championship while Kobe is 5-14 on winning a championship. I don't think in what round you lose really matters. If he ends his career 2-7 in the finals or 2-3 I wouldnt look at it any different hed still have the same number of rings. Theres 1 winner every year and 29 losers not 1 winner and 1 loser. Dumbest stat anyone ever brings up in an argument like this.
 
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Posted: #105
Out of fear of sounding redundant for not reading through 5 pages of another LBJ vs Kobe thread, I'd like to chime in.

I'm not a fan of teams (I suggest alot of us sports investors pick up that habit), but I am a fan of a few sports athletes;  Tom Brady being one of them.  I had a debate with someone about rating G.O.A.T.'s in professional sports, about how there isn't just one category to take into account on ranking someone as being one of the greatest.  We had this debate about a week prior to the White House celebration for the Super Bowl Champions.  When he didn't show up to be celebrated by his Commander-In-Chief (what message does that send to the rest of the world on America's Leadership?), and he gave such a lukewarm excuse on why, my feelings for Tom Brady suddenly changed.  I analyzed "why", and after being honest with myself, I came up with this.  I realized that there's another category that I've been overlooking when it comes to ranking the greatest sports figures on the planet, and that's *PUBLIC PERCEPTION*.

What does that have to do with Kobe vs LBJ ranking of Greatness?  Well, to me (and I believe the average or better NBA fan), LBJ is "clearly" better in alot of different categories to Kobe (shooting percentage, clutchness, athletic potential, value to a team, etc.).  The problem for LBJ's legacy is that...he, single-handedly, for whatever reason him and his supporters can come up with, has set the bar higher than normal for him to be considered a "success".  When you're signed into The Association, having skipped past college, 18 years old, and becoming the #1 pick overall in the 2003 draft...the ABSOLUTE LAST thing I would expect him to do is give himself the nickname of "King James", taking the jersey number "23", and making Nike commercials with Bernie Mac and angels flying around in a church, before he took a step onto an NBA basketball court.  He, in retrospect, hypothetically said "I'm King James.  All of you are beneath me, and if I share stats/rings with anyone lower than MJ, I'm a failure".  Remember this quote: "Not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6, not 7, not 8..."?  Okay, then.  *CHALLENGE ACCEPTED*... :-/

LBJ isn't going to get the accolades for his leadership, tenacity, repeated NBA Finals appearances, and enormous athletic court presence unless he shows *CLEAR DOMINANCE* in the fruits of his labor (rings).  Even then, the majority of people will still make excuses on how Kobe's intangibles outweigh LBJ's, let alone comparing him to MJ.  Him having more NBA Finals failures than victories already says that.

Here, I'll give an example of one right now:  "If it wasn't the case of a ludicrous, ridiculous, falling-into-the-stands, no-look 3-pointer from Ray Allen in the closing seconds of Game 6 of the NBA 2013 Finals, LBJ would be 0-4 against Texas teams in the Finals.  0-4!"

LBJ himself has made alot of NBA fans look at him as being the "badguy", and not properly acknowledging his skill/legacy.  And the only one to blame is himself for that...

In closing, I hold Kobe Bryant in higher regard than LBJ.  Hell, MJ holds Kobe Bryant in higher regard than LBJ, as was stated in an interview about the two MJ-wannabes.  Not because of shooting percentages, FTA's, or any other obscure stat.  Because of the amount of *RINGS* in his Finals appearances aka The Fruits of Your Labors.  And ultimately, if I were to be honest with myself, because Kobe Bryant looks to be more of the "good guy", compared to LBJ.  You'd be surprised how many others feel that exact same way...
 
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Posted: #106
Quote Originally Posted by GuardiaDeMieux:

Out of fear of sounding redundant for not reading through 5 pages of another LBJ vs Kobe thread, I'd like to chime in.

I'm not a fan of teams (I suggest alot of us sports investors pick up that habit), but I am a fan of a few sports athletes;  Tom Brady being one of them.  I had a debate with someone about rating G.O.A.T.'s in professional sports, about how there isn't just one category to take into account on ranking someone as being one of the greatest.  We had this debate about a week prior to the White House celebration for the Super Bowl Champions.  When he didn't show up to be celebrated by his Commander-In-Chief (what message does that send to the rest of the world on America's Leadership?), and he gave such a lukewarm excuse on why, my feelings for Tom Brady suddenly changed.  I analyzed "why", and after being honest with myself, I came up with this.  I realized that there's another category that I've been overlooking when it comes to ranking the greatest sports figures on the planet, and that's *PUBLIC PERCEPTION*.

What does that have to do with Kobe vs LBJ ranking of Greatness?  Well, to me (and I believe the average or better NBA fan), LBJ is "clearly" better in alot of different categories to Kobe (shooting percentage, clutchness, athletic potential, value to a team, etc.).  The problem for LBJ's legacy is that...he, single-handedly, for whatever reason him and his supporters can come up with, has set the bar higher than normal for him to be considered a "success".  When you're signed into The Association, having skipped past college, 18 years old, and becoming the #1 pick overall in the 2003 draft...the ABSOLUTE LAST thing I would expect him to do is give himself the nickname of "King James", taking the jersey number "23", and making Nike commercials with Bernie Mac and angels flying around in a church, before he took a step onto an NBA basketball court.  He, in retrospect, hypothetically said "I'm King James.  All of you are beneath me, and if I share stats/rings with anyone lower than MJ, I'm a failure".  Remember this quote: "Not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6, not 7, not 8..."?  Okay, then.  *CHALLENGE ACCEPTED*... :-/

LBJ isn't going to get the accolades for his leadership, tenacity, repeated NBA Finals appearances, and enormous athletic court presence unless he shows *CLEAR DOMINANCE* in the fruits of his labor (rings).  Even then, the majority of people will still make excuses on how Kobe's intangibles outweigh LBJ's, let alone comparing him to MJ.  Him having more NBA Finals failures than victories already says that.

Here, I'll give an example of one right now:  "If it wasn't the case of a ludicrous, ridiculous, falling-into-the-stands, no-look 3-pointer from Ray Allen in the closing seconds of Game 6 of the NBA 2013 Finals, LBJ would be 0-4 against Texas teams in the Finals.  0-4!"

LBJ himself has made alot of NBA fans look at him as being the "badguy", and not properly acknowledging his skill/legacy.  And the only one to blame is himself for that...

In closing, I hold Kobe Bryant in higher regard than LBJ.  Hell, MJ holds Kobe Bryant in higher regard than LBJ, as was stated in an interview about the two MJ-wannabes.  Not because of shooting percentages, FTA's, or any other obscure stat.  Because of the amount of *RINGS* in his Finals appearances aka The Fruits of Your Labors.  And ultimately, if I were to be honest with myself, because Kobe Bryant looks to be more of the "good guy", compared to LBJ.  You'd be surprised how many others feel that exact same way...

Good points mostly. I don't like the "Ray Allen falling into the stands 3 pointer" statement. You can't disregard a ring based on "ifs". A lot of role players have hit huge crazier shots than the best 3 point shooter of all time hitting a shot he regularly practices. It's like saying if David Tyree didn't catch the ball on his helmet Brady would have another ring. Or if Kevin Dyson would have made it another yard in the 2000 super bowl Kurt Warner may not have a ring. It's not like it was a halfcourt heave. It was a step back 3. but the rest of your write-up is accurate.
 
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Posted: #107
Jordan holds Kobe in higher regard because Jordan's legacy as GOAT is built on the being 6-O in finals.  Ask another GOAT bird who says Kobe doesn't make teammates better

R u kidding bout how Lebrun is viewed.   Kobes own teammates hated him cuz he's too selfish.   He ran off 3 HOF centers    MJ or Lebron would have given their left nut to play w even an all star caliber center once.

Kobe is best 1 on 1 but too selfish to be in discussion.  He had killer instinct but would constantly take shot w game on the line w 3 guys on him.    He'd make 1 of 4 but that 1 would be on sports center hence the myth bout clutch.   As noted Kobe actually shoots bout 27% w game on line.  MJ knew when to pass off which is the very essence of ball.

The discussion bout rings is completely misleading (Robert Horry).  The discussion should be how many times they achieved/under achieved based on their individual situations.   There have been at least 5 yrs when kobes teams underachieved.   Lebron the yr against Dallas.   MJ never, which is the reason he should be GOAT not simply the fact he was 6-0 in champs

For the same reason, wilt can't be considered GOAT.   He continually wilted under pressure and his teams underachieved several times
 
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Posted: #108
Quote Originally Posted by GuardiaDeMieux:

Out of fear of sounding redundant for not reading through 5 pages of another LBJ vs Kobe thread, I'd like to chime in.

I'm not a fan of teams (I suggest alot of us sports investors pick up that habit), but I am a fan of a few sports athletes;  Tom Brady being one of them.  I had a debate with someone about rating G.O.A.T.'s in professional sports, about how there isn't just one category to take into account on ranking someone as being one of the greatest.  We had this debate about a week prior to the White House celebration for the Super Bowl Champions.  When he didn't show up to be celebrated by his Commander-In-Chief (what message does that send to the rest of the world on America's Leadership?), and he gave such a lukewarm excuse on why, my feelings for Tom Brady suddenly changed.  I analyzed "why", and after being honest with myself, I came up with this.  I realized that there's another category that I've been overlooking when it comes to ranking the greatest sports figures on the planet, and that's *PUBLIC PERCEPTION*.

What does that have to do with Kobe vs LBJ ranking of Greatness?  Well, to me (and I believe the average or better NBA fan), LBJ is "clearly" better in alot of different categories to Kobe (shooting percentage, clutchness, athletic potential, value to a team, etc.).  The problem for LBJ's legacy is that...he, single-handedly, for whatever reason him and his supporters can come up with, has set the bar higher than normal for him to be considered a "success".  When you're signed into The Association, having skipped past college, 18 years old, and becoming the #1 pick overall in the 2003 draft...the ABSOLUTE LAST thing I would expect him to do is give himself the nickname of "King James", taking the jersey number "23", and making Nike commercials with Bernie Mac and angels flying around in a church, before he took a step onto an NBA basketball court.  He, in retrospect, hypothetically said "I'm King James.  All of you are beneath me, and if I share stats/rings with anyone lower than MJ, I'm a failure".  Remember this quote: "Not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6, not 7, not 8..."?  Okay, then.  *CHALLENGE ACCEPTED*... :-/

LBJ isn't going to get the accolades for his leadership, tenacity, repeated NBA Finals appearances, and enormous athletic court presence unless he shows *CLEAR DOMINANCE* in the fruits of his labor (rings).  Even then, the majority of people will still make excuses on how Kobe's intangibles outweigh LBJ's, let alone comparing him to MJ.  Him having more NBA Finals failures than victories already says that.

Here, I'll give an example of one right now:  "If it wasn't the case of a ludicrous, ridiculous, falling-into-the-stands, no-look 3-pointer from Ray Allen in the closing seconds of Game 6 of the NBA 2013 Finals, LBJ would be 0-4 against Texas teams in the Finals.  0-4!"

LBJ himself has made alot of NBA fans look at him as being the "badguy", and not properly acknowledging his skill/legacy.  And the only one to blame is himself for that...

In closing, I hold Kobe Bryant in higher regard than LBJ.  Hell, MJ holds Kobe Bryant in higher regard than LBJ, as was stated in an interview about the two MJ-wannabes.  Not because of shooting percentages, FTA's, or any other obscure stat.  Because of the amount of *RINGS* in his Finals appearances aka The Fruits of Your Labors.  And ultimately, if I were to be honest with myself, because Kobe Bryant looks to be more of the "good guy", compared to LBJ.  You'd be surprised how many others feel that exact same way...

nice post.....but you dont reckon jordan has just a slight bias in his assessment of kobe??...it is extremely well known that he has acted as mentor to bryant for pretty much his whole career,they are cut from the same cloth,imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and kobe modelled a whole lot of his game and mannerisms on jordan....and lets face it,they are both pretty much unlike-able douche-bags/ar.se-holes and philanderers off the court so one can identify with the other....i take jordans assessment with a grain of salt here.if lebron was able to win 8 rings and crush almost every statistical category in history i still dont see jordan conceding....he and lebron have never been close at all,that has been made publicy known.
 
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Posted: #109
Quote Originally Posted by StanThaCaddy:


Good points mostly. I don't like the "Ray Allen falling into the stands 3 pointer" statement. You can't disregard a ring based on "ifs". A lot of role players have hit huge crazier shots than the best 3 point shooter of all time hitting a shot he regularly practices. It's like saying if David Tyree didn't catch the ball on his helmet Brady would have another ring. Or if Kevin Dyson would have made it another yard in the 2000 super bowl Kurt Warner may not have a ring. It's not like it was a halfcourt heave. It was a step back 3. but the rest of your write-up is accurate.

Oh...lol.  I was being sarcastic with that statement, just showing how the most crazed fan will still find an angle to hold up their argument on who they think is the greatest, is all.  Yeah, I agree.  A ring is a ring, at the end of the day...
 
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Posted: #110
Quote Originally Posted by StanThaCaddy:


Good points mostly. I don't like the "Ray Allen falling into the stands 3 pointer" statement. You can't disregard a ring based on "ifs". A lot of role players have hit huge crazier shots than the best 3 point shooter of all time hitting a shot he regularly practices. It's like saying if David Tyree didn't catch the ball on his helmet Brady would have another ring. Or if Kevin Dyson would have made it another yard in the 2000 super bowl Kurt Warner may not have a ring. It's not like it was a halfcourt heave. It was a step back 3. but the rest of your write-up is accurate.


this^^^^^^...its amazing how the lebron detractors continue to bring this up over and over again,trying to strip the guy of a championship cos a team-mate made a great shot??...wtf??
like every other athlete in history hasnt benefited from good fortune/luck,an incredible play to help win a title or series..its all part of the game,lebron im sure has been disadvantaged by similar plays going against him just the same....but thats lebron for ya,even wen he wins he still loses in sum peoples eyes.
 
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Posted: #111
Quote Originally Posted by melossinglet:


nice post.....but you dont reckon jordan has just a slight bias in his assessment of kobe??...it is extremely well known that he has acted as mentor to bryant for pretty much his whole career,they are cut from the same cloth,imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and kobe modelled a whole lot of his game and mannerisms on jordan....and lets face it,they are both pretty much unlike-able douche-bags/ar.se-holes and philanderers off the court so one can identify with the other....i take jordans assessment with a grain of salt here.if lebron was able to win 8 rings and crush almost every statistical category in history i still dont see jordan conceding....he and lebron have never been close at all,that has been made publicy known.

Did you know that...I think it was in 2010...LBJ had sent a picture on Instagram of a young MJ trying to guard him?  This is before he won any Championship, he did that.  The arrogance that he displayed in the past was just so...*smh*  What if Kyle Korver Instagramed a picture of himself during the regular season shooting a 3-pointer over MJ (when KK was 60% on the 3-point line)?  What if Steph Curry Instagramed a picture of himself breaking MJ's ankles on the court, because he had a highlight of him doing that to CP3 on ESPN during the regular season?  It's things like that that screams, "Call me the bad guy, PLEASE!"  He went back to Cleveland, and he took the number 23 AGAIN.  There's almost no degree of humility shown to the public, just seems like a snubbed nose up to everyone else in the league, not just MJ.

Just my perception...
 
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Posted: #112
And yet players r  falling over themselves waiting in line to play w Lebron but no1 wants to play w Kobe.   Speaks volumes.  
 
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Posted: #113
LeBron will be the second best player of all-time and is already better than Bryant..but I do think Kobe is in the same category..
 
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Posted: #114
If Lebron was on the same level as Kobe, then he would of won back to back to back titles with the Heat.   The fact that he went to the finals 4 consecutive year's with a team that he virtually hand picked and playing in a Weak eastern conference and yet could not win 3 titles in a row.  Bottom line it's all about Titles.    Right now Kobe>Lebron. 
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Posted: #115
Get a clue Kobe won the 3 titles by riding the jock of the most dominant center in history
 
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Posted: #116
Quote Originally Posted by shiek:

Get a clue Kobe won the 3 titles by riding the jock of the most dominant center in history

Just to play devil's advocate for a moment...he won 2 more rings when the Lakers were going through somewhat of a rebuilding process.  Can you name me ONE other superstar on any of those 2 championship rings Lakers teams?  It was an older Kobe, he stuck with the franchise, and lead a group of rag-tag players around him to 2 more rings.  It's that thing of "staying put" and working with the tools that are given that helps in the argument of "Kobe's up *here*, and LBJ is down *there*" type of talk.  But again, *PUBLIC PERCEPTION*.  It's just how the masses of fans perceive you...
 
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Posted: #117
The lakers were going nowhere til they stole Gasol.     He was a guaranteed 20/10 at the time and will get consideration for HOF    Hardly a rag tag.   
 
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Posted: #118
This debate will be answered in a couple of weeks.  If Lebron wants to prove his is an All time Great next to MJ, then he will lead the cavs to a title.  If not, he will be 2 for 6 in the finals and not sure how anyone can say he is a better all time great than Kobe.   
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Posted: #119
Lebron will never be on par w Jordan because he has been the frozen 1 far too many times in critical situations.   He will,however, finish ahead of Kobe in the grand scheme.   Also, for u to discount whatever Lebron does this year without Love and probably Kyrie is problematic.


 
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Posted: #120
You all just got caught up in the moment. I don't care if Lebron goes to the finals every year. He always get a free pass there because of how the East is built. Lets wait til Lebron gets 2 more rings (even w/ that garbage conference he's playing at) and lets start the conversation between him and Kobe. Lebron going to the finals every year doesn't mean you have to overrate him.
 
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Posted: #121
Dumb and pointless thread. I insist that you guys stop posting on this matter. Understood? Thanks in advance!!!

Instead let's debate what is better strawberry or chocolate shakes... That is the equivelant to everything that has been said in this thread.
 
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Posted: #122
Hey guys --- who is a better QB - Marino or Farve?

Farve is not even in the same category.
 
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Posted: #123
Hey chaps - who is a better running back? Emmit Smith or Barry Sanders?

Sanders will run circles around him. Not even an argument.
 
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Posted: #124
Hey guys why is the best buffalo wing flavor? Mild buffalo sauce or spicy buffalo sauce?

Duh. Everybody knows it is spicy buffalo. Get out her with that question.
 
 
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Blue cheese vs. ranch? Now that is a debate.
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