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Lebron is no JORDAN

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Posted: #51
Quote Originally Posted by KobezKing:

Rangerz what did bynum do in the lakers championship years. Im pretty sure he was a total no factor and avg 6 pts in 2009 finals. He avg 7.4 pts in 2010 finals Yea thats so much better than wade/bosh. If anyone wants to argue the pau/bynum tandem back then was better than wade/bosh then u guys r even more crazy than i thought. So please take that ridiculous statement back. If u combine his two finals performances he avg 13 a game lmao.

You are knocking Lebron for his postseason losses, so you need to factor Kobe's as well. In 2011 and 2012 the Lakers lost both playoffs in the second round. In those two series, they lost by a combined 8-1 including being swept by the Mavs in 2011. In 2011, Bynum averaged 14 pts and 10 boards. In 2012, Bynum averaged 17 points and 11 boards. This isn't better than what Lebron had this year? Not to mention, Lebron lost in the finals. Kobe lost two consecutive years via SWEEP and 5 game losses. This was all while having Bynum at his best. 

Try again. 
 
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Posted: #52
Again, not trying to knock Kobe in any way. But Kobe didn't get a lick of criticism for these awful second round exits. Lebron loses in the finals, after 4 consecutive eastern conference finals, and 2 nba championships. 

This is justified to you guys because you like one player and hate the other. Plain and simple. 
 
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Posted: #53
Quote Originally Posted by ben23:

lebron  play for numbers

kobe play for win the game

jordan play for be the best AND WIN ALL .... AND HE DOED

Both kobe and lebron are highly competitive but if anything, Kobe is more concerned with numbers than lebron ever is.
 
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Posted: #54
stakz,youre a fuk.ing retard...do you actually read any of the other posts you illiterate monkey??
why keep harping on about lebron needing good players around him wen it is clear that kobe also needed good and great players to win also??wat happened the cupple years he had to play with garbage players??oh,thats rite,kobe barely made the playoffs you f.kin moron!!!

he had to demand a trade or more help after he ran shaq outta town because he COULDNT WIN without good players around him...no fuk.in player in nba history can...try and name one.
so kobe was just in the fortunate position of already having good players around him to win with,thats the ONLY reason he never had to resort to skipping town(altho he did his damndest to after he saw the disaster he had created by getting shaq removed).....shaq is ABSOLUTELY worth wade+bosh,youre a fool if you think otherwise...particularly an in his prime shaq compared to an obviously declining wade and inconsistent bosh...dude was the most physically dominant physical force of all fuk.ing time 4 crying out loud!!!..unguardable................and what,you actually think that a cast of o'neal,rick fox,robert horry,derek fisher,devean george,horace grant,brian shaw is worse than wat lebron has currently??????  GTFOH!!!!!!
youre a simpleton,stakz..stop looking at everything in isolation and try and see both sides of the story

once and for all,just stop with the whole fuk..ing "lebron needed to get help" argument..its fuk.ing tired and irrelevent compared to wat other players also required to win
 
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Posted: #55
oh,and lets not forget that kobe also LOST with 3 other hall of famers,shaq,payton and malone!!!...you wanna talk about teaming up with all-stars,hahahahahhaha
 
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Posted: #56
Quote Originally Posted by Jaypay:

Jordan in his prime replacing LeBron on the Heat, and S.A. still crushes them. It's a team sport. Wilt wrote the NBA record book. None of these guys the last 25 years put up numbers anywhere close to him. He had a season where he AVERAGED 50 pts. and 25 rebounds. Jordan ever do that?

You do realize that Jordan was a 6'6 shooting guard and Wilt was a 7 foot center in a completely different era?  Why would you compare the two?  
 
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Posted: #57
Rangerz the fact that u think pau/Bynum is better than wade/bosh just shows ur bias toward LeBron. Dwayne wade is 10 times the player of either of those guys and bosh is every bit as good or better than gasol as shown by avg 24 11  in Toronto. U wana say im clueless but then mention PAU GASOL and ANDREW BYNUM in same sentence as Dwayne Wade. Wade is 3rd best 2 guard of all time and gasol and Bynum were at their peak fringe all stars. also saying shaq was better than wade an bosh combined might b more ridiculous. When big 3 was formed bosh and wade combined for 51 ppg the yr bfor. when did shaq ever give u 51 18reb and 10 asst in a year?? And u say Lebron is 10 times the player Kobe is so that just proves that LeBron and heat were failure and should take major legacy hit losing 2 finals with that talent. also Kobe and shaq never had best 3 pt shooter in nba history
 
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Posted: #58
Rangerz- 

Fair enough- I think most of the "haters" that Lebron has are because of the way he left Cleveland high and dry and the way he handled "the decision" that was such a joke and that was when I lost all respect for the guy- he is so gifted but doesn't seem to have the "it" factor- maybe he is just too nice or maybe it is because people have kissed his rear end since he was in junior high- whatever it is, I would be real surprised if he wins more than one more championship

 
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Posted: #59
Quote Originally Posted by KobezKing:

Rangerz the fact that u think pau/Bynum is better than wade/bosh just shows ur bias toward LeBron. Dwayne wade is 10 times the player of either of those guys and bosh is every bit as good or better than gasol as shown by avg 24 11  in Toronto. U wana say im clueless but then mention PAU GASOL and ANDREW BYNUM in same sentence as Dwayne Wade. Wade is 3rd best 2 guard of all time and gasol and Bynum were at their peak fringe all stars. also saying shaq was better than wade an bosh combined might b more ridiculous. When big 3 was formed bosh and wade combined for 51 ppg the yr bfor. when did shaq ever give u 51 18reb and 10 asst in a year?? And u say Lebron is 10 times the player Kobe is so that just proves that LeBron and heat were failure and should take major legacy hit losing 2 finals with that talent. also Kobe and shaq never had best 3 pt shooter in nba history

How you view these players in terms of "all time" is irrelevant. Wade is a shell of his former self and you know it. Bringing up Bosh's Toronto numbers is incredibly laughable. All we can judge him on are the numbers he has put up while with Miami. You wanna say Kobe has a better killer instinct/better intangibles/"more clutch" then Lebron, fine. But we can both agree Lebron is the better playmaker. Therefore, the fact that Bynum put up better numbers than Bosh is the biggest takeaway. Bynum had Kobe, no point guard to speak of, and STILL put up better numbers. Bosh has a great playermaker (we can at least agree on that aspect) in Lebron, with the same bad point guard play, and has put up inferior numbers. 

You bringing up Bosh/Wade on a historical level is what's wrong with your argument. Both players were far superior players before they played with Lebron. Arguing otherwise is foolish, but not surprising. 
 
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Posted: #60
Quote Originally Posted by blowoutgm:

Rangerz- 

Fair enough- I think most of the "haters" that Lebron has are because of the way he left Cleveland high and dry and the way he handled "the decision" that was such a joke and that was when I lost all respect for the guy- he is so gifted but doesn't seem to have the "it" factor- maybe he is just too nice or maybe it is because people have kissed his rear end since he was in junior high- whatever it is, I would be real surprised if he wins more than one more championship


I agree 100% and trust me, no one was more pissed about that than me. It cost me more money than most in this thread wager in a year. It was an incredibly awful PR move by Lebron and he paid the price for it. But it shouldn't impact his legacy as a player, and people need to let it go. 
 
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Posted: #61
how did his move cost you so much rangerz2478???
 
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Posted: #62
Quote Originally Posted by melossinglet:

how did his move cost you so much rangerz2478???

When the "decision" was originally announced to air on tv, (this was before the Miami rumor the day before the announcement) I put a ton on a prop on him to stay in Cleveland. I couldn't believe he'd go on national tv to create this spectacle to announce anything but him staying in Cleveland. Seemed like a giant middle finger to his hometown if that was his intention. Essentially, I was betting on him being smart enough not to have the entire city despise him for the rest of his career. He could have left quietly, and I assumed he wasn't stupid enough to leave Cleveland "loudly." Got close to +500 on it and unloaded. Well, I was obviously dead wrong, and hated him for it.

But it was a mistake on his part, and he admitted as such. I had a huge vested interest on it, and I moved on. Others should be able to do the same without holding it against him. 
 
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Posted: #63
Quote Originally Posted by KobezKing:

Rangerz the fact that u think pau/Bynum is better than wade/bosh just shows ur bias toward LeBron. Dwayne wade is 10 times the player of either of those guys and bosh is every bit as good or better than gasol as shown by avg 24 11  in Toronto. U wana say im clueless but then mention PAU GASOL and ANDREW BYNUM in same sentence as Dwayne Wade. Wade is 3rd best 2 guard of all time and gasol and Bynum were at their peak fringe all stars. also saying shaq was better than wade an bosh combined might b more ridiculous. When big 3 was formed bosh and wade combined for 51 ppg the yr bfor. when did shaq ever give u 51 18reb and 10 asst in a year?? And u say Lebron is 10 times the player Kobe is so that just proves that LeBron and heat were failure and should take major legacy hit losing 2 finals with that talent. also Kobe and shaq never had best 3 pt shooter in nba history

another ludicrous,misinformed post by you......you have to judge wade and bosh on their performance THIS PAST 3 YEARS,not their careers you idiot,clearly they have both regressed in production 4 watever reason-age,injury and having to be subjucated thru playing with other marquee players..doesnt really matter...FACT IS that 2012-2014 bosh and wade were not the hi calibre,hi production all-stars of years gone by...not really even close.
shaq on the other hand was in his absolute monstrous prime in the lakers years and by his impact on a game it cud certainly be argued strongly that he was worth wat older wade/bosh offered together......the guy just about demanded attention from 3 fuk.en defenders most games 4 crying out loud and even then cud still mow over the top of you....if you tried single coverage on him then he just about cud have posted 51 and 18 per game,but as it was his presence,smarts and unselfishness made the game entirely different for everyone else on those lakers teams.
im sure you will see that kobe benefited hugely from his presence which wud be reflected in his efficiency during those years as opposed to post-shaq.

its also not far fetched at all to suggest that title-winning pau was comparable to wade these past cupple years...long,mobile,highly,highly skilled big man that cud score in a variety of ways he was an all-star quality player for those years....sure,he had his shortcomings but then so has wade recently
 
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Posted: #64
Kobe =clueless and no concept of team basketball just like yur hero.   The reason Bynum and Casol r important is rim protection not points which is all u ever quote.   Wade was laughable this series on defense which is why all the natl talk shows r saying he looked like fred Sanford.   Chris posh is laughable as all he does is sit on the 3 point line and jack up 3s and get dunked on by some bald 40 yr old fat white guy.   Jordan never had an above average center but at least he had a presence in the middle.   The heats glaring weakness is no presence in the middle.   Kobe rode shaqs jock to the first 3 and then couldn't win another til they got CasolCasol
 
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Posted: #65
one thing we forgot is that lebron playing his career in a weaker division, even when boston with the healthy big 3, james is nowhere near the finals, his last 4 yrs appearance in finals was great, but come on, they really don't have much a challenge to be there, I really hope lebron will be playing in the western division , a more tougher and challenge..

PS when jordan era, the east was more tougher than the west
when kobe era, the west was more tougher .
now LBJ...
 
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Posted: #66
Quote Originally Posted by rangerz2478:


When the "decision" was originally announced to air on tv, (this was before the Miami rumor the day before the announcement) I put a ton on a prop on him to stay in Cleveland. I couldn't believe he'd go on national tv to create this spectacle to announce anything but him staying in Cleveland. Seemed like a giant middle finger to his hometown if that was his intention. Essentially, I was betting on him being smart enough not to have the entire city despise him for the rest of his career. He could have left quietly, and I assumed he wasn't stupid enough to leave Cleveland "loudly." Got close to +500 on it and unloaded. Well, I was obviously dead wrong, and hated him for it.

But it was a mistake on his part, and he admitted as such. I had a huge vested interest on it, and I moved on. Others should be able to do the same without holding it against him. 

wow,didnt the odds tip you off that it wasnt such a sure thing??i mean the books got more information on all this stuff than us lowly degenerates....for wat its worth,i thought he'd end up in new york.was as surprised as anyone that he went to miami
 
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Posted: #67
Quote Originally Posted by melossinglet:


wow,didnt the odds tip you off that it wasnt such a sure thing??i mean the books got more information on all this stuff than us lowly degenerates....for wat its worth,i thought he'd end up in new york.was as surprised as anyone that he went to miami

Of course it wasn't a sure thing, but at +500 I thought it was a phenomenal wager. It was the chance to buy low and hope to hit. Didn't work out. 
 
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Posted: #68
Quote Originally Posted by rangerz2478:

Again, not trying to knock Kobe in any way. But Kobe didn't get a lick of criticism for these awful second round exits. Lebron loses in the finals, after 4 consecutive eastern conference finals, and 2 nba championships. 

This is justified to you guys because you like one player and hate the other. Plain and simple. 

This comment should have been the end of the thread. 
 
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Posted: #69
Quote Originally Posted by rangerz2478:


Of course it wasn't a sure thing, but at +500 I thought it was a phenomenal wager. It was the chance to buy low and hope to hit. Didn't work out. 

jeezus,i dread to think wat you risked,seems like you still carry it with you till this day.feel bad 4 you on that one.........bet you wont be wagering on wat he decides this off-season??....just stay away if he schedules a big,glitzy press conference
 
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Posted: #70
Quote Originally Posted by melossinglet:

stakz,youre a fuk.ing retard...do you actually read any of the other posts you illiterate monkey??


i honestly never read your posts. you can't type your words are to crunched and your points are retarded

your a waiste of time to respond too cant teach a retard
 
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Posted: #71
Quote Originally Posted by shiek:

Kobe =clueless and no concept of team basketball just like yur hero.   The reason Bynum and Casol r important is rim protection not points which is all u ever quote.   



first of all you are such an idiot you don't even know its Gasol

and second of all bynum and pau are probably the worst two defensive centers ever

all they ever cared about was points

you clearly didn't watch them so don't comment on anything about this matter
 
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Posted: #72
Quote Originally Posted by melossinglet:

oh,and lets not forget that kobe also LOST with 3 other hall of famers,shaq,payton and malone!!!...you wanna talk about teaming up with all-stars,hahahahahhaha


malone didn't play in the finals he was hurt

and gary payton was like 40 years old going against a chauncey billups in his prime

you are still proving you know absolutely nothing
 
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Posted: #73
Quote Originally Posted by rangerz2478:


I'm not backtracking from a damn thing, I'm explaining the rationale for how these arguments come to be. The funny thing is, people like you think I'm knocking Kobe being a great player. He is ABSOLUTELY a great player. Saying a guy is a top 15/possibly a top 10 player of all time isn't a knock on him. There is just another guy who is better. 


Ok and this is your opinion and its based of meaningless regular season stats and awards

while my opinion is based off productions and wins in the post season

the playoffs are the only thing that matters know one remembers who clinched 1st and had a great season

they remember who won the championship
 
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Posted: #74
and to rangers losing in the second round to the mavs who went on to beat the heat in the finals is not as big as your trying to make it

than losing next year in 5 to OKC with harden who eventually went to the finals who beat this very spurs team who won the championship this year

is also not that big of a deal they lost to better teams who cares

Lebron loses to teams his team should be better than

your points are fking dumb dude
 
 
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Posted: #75
Quote Originally Posted by rangerz2478:


This is the most hilarious argument of the notion Lebron "needed more help to win." Shaq on his own was far better than the Wade/Bosh combo have been.


your argument breaks down when Shaq moved to the Heat in 2004 and Kobe still went on to win another 2 more championships plus finals MVP awards those seasons.

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