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    All Forums | NBA Betting Forum

    NBA Algorithm Picks - Day 8 of 10 (34- 28 so far))

    TheBetGuy
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    TheBetGuy
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    Posted: Nov. 16, 2021 - 2:28 PM ET #1

    Treaded water on last nights games with a 7-7 split, and the O/U picking up the slack once again with a solid showing. 

    Overall: 34-28 (15-16 spreads, 19-13 O/U)

    Day 1: 8-5 (4-3 spreads, 4-2 O/U)

    Day 2: 3-1 (1-1 spreads, 2-0 O/U)

    Day 3: 9-5 (4-3 spreads, 5-2 O/U)

    Day 4: 5-5 (3-1 spreads, 2-4 O/U)

    Day 5: 2-5 (0-4 spreads, 2-2 O/U)

    Day 6: 7-7 (3-4 spreads, 4-3 O/U)

     

    For confirmation of the results so far, click on my name to see my post history and click on the thread for each day. Make note of the timestamps to confirm that all picks were made well before each game and make sure the tally on each day's thread matches the recap above. I can assure you they do, I'm just doing it this way so you don't need to take my word for it.

    Here are the lines for tomorrow, as always once the opening lines come out later tonight, I'll post the picks based on that here on this thread:

    IND @ DET -------> IND -8.5/214

    WSH @ CHA ------> WSH -5.5/213

    BOS @ ATL -------> ATL -2/205.5

    ORL @ NYK -------> NYK -12.5/207

    CLE @ BKN -------> BKN -5.5/208

    LAL @ MIL -------> MIL -2/219.5

    NO @ MIA --------> MIA -13.5/214

    HOU @ OKC------> OKC -4/210.5

    SAC @ MIN-------> SAC -5.5/222

    DAL @ PHX -------> PHX -5.5/208

    CHI @ POR -------> CHI +1/213

     

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    To remove first post, remove entire topic.

    Treaded water on last nights games with a 7-7 split, and the O/U picking up the slack once again with a solid showing. 

    Overall: 34-28 (15-16 spreads, 19-13 O/U)

    Day 1: 8-5 (4-3 spreads, 4-2 O/U)

    Day 2: 3-1 (1-1 spreads, 2-0 O/U)

    Day 3: 9-5 (4-3 spreads, 5-2 O/U)

    Day 4: 5-5 (3-1 spreads, 2-4 O/U)

    Day 5: 2-5 (0-4 spreads, 2-2 O/U)

    Day 6: 7-7 (3-4 spreads, 4-3 O/U)

     

    For confirmation of the results so far, click on my name to see my post history and click on the thread for each day. Make note of the timestamps to confirm that all picks were made well before each game and make sure the tally on each day's thread matches the recap above. I can assure you they do, I'm just doing it this way so you don't need to take my word for it.

    Here are the lines for tomorrow, as always once the opening lines come out later tonight, I'll post the picks based on that here on this thread:

    IND @ DET -------> IND -8.5/214

    WSH @ CHA ------> WSH -5.5/213

    BOS @ ATL -------> ATL -2/205.5

    ORL @ NYK -------> NYK -12.5/207

    CLE @ BKN -------> BKN -5.5/208

    LAL @ MIL -------> MIL -2/219.5

    NO @ MIA --------> MIA -13.5/214

    HOU @ OKC------> OKC -4/210.5

    SAC @ MIN-------> SAC -5.5/222

    DAL @ PHX -------> PHX -5.5/208

    CHI @ POR -------> CHI +1/213

     

     
    TheBetGuy
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    Posted: Nov. 16, 2021 - 3:07 PM ET #2

    Since I like to add a little bit of betting insight to every day's thread, I think a good one is regarding the current difference in the success rate between the spreads and the O/U. This is good advice for any system, yours, mine, or anyone elses. I know it's tempting to look at the splits and say "well, if the spreads are not even hitting at 50% but the O/U hitting at 59%, clearly the right move is to just play the O/U". This is never really a good strategy (assuming both numbers come from the same place, as mine do). As I've discussed in previous threads, a large portion of the result of any sporting event (around 40% is the general assumption) is pure randomness, and anytime you see major splits in your results despite all the numbers coming from the same analysis, that randomness is almost always the cause. In the case of my picks, both the spreads and the O/U come from the exact same place. When I punch in the two teams that are playing into the algorithm, it just spits out a total for each team, and then I do the quick mental calculations to come up with the lines. So, for example, in the Ind-Cha game, when I put in those teams, it tells me it expects the score to be 110-105 for Indy (technically, it's 110.3-104.7 but I round to the nearest whole). From there I'll just calculate the spread and total. The point is, since both those numbers come from the exact same source, it couldn't be the case the the O/U numbers are good but the spreads are bad. The algorithm is the algorithm and it's either a  good predictor of scores or it isn't. You could, of course, try to ride the "hot side", but since randomness always evens out over the long term, you're much more likely to just end up chasing wins that turn into losses, while at the same time missing out on the wins of the other side.

    There's a huge caveat to all of that however, and it's if the lopsided results happens over a large sample size, around 100-200 plays. In that case, it's likely that you missed something when you were finetuning your system and one (or more) of the stats you use to determine your outcomes is improperly weighted (or you've left out something). But in that case, the thing to do is to go back and fix the bug, not just bet the side that's been winning, because whatever the flaw is in your analysis, it's almost certainly impacting the winning side too, and the reason it's been winning is more likely due to that randomness than anything else. Eventually, that too will revert to it's expected performance and then you likely won't have winning bets on either side. In the case of my own system, although it may appear the O/U is more accurate than the spreads, that's simply due to the small sample size. Over the course of this season, both spreads and O/U are within a point of each other over around 220 bets, with spreads winning at a 55.6% clip and the O/U at 56.4%. And even that difference is almost certainly due to randomness, it could just as easily be the reverse.

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    Since I like to add a little bit of betting insight to every day's thread, I think a good one is regarding the current difference in the success rate between the spreads and the O/U. This is good advice for any system, yours, mine, or anyone elses. I know it's tempting to look at the splits and say "well, if the spreads are not even hitting at 50% but the O/U hitting at 59%, clearly the right move is to just play the O/U". This is never really a good strategy (assuming both numbers come from the same place, as mine do). As I've discussed in previous threads, a large portion of the result of any sporting event (around 40% is the general assumption) is pure randomness, and anytime you see major splits in your results despite all the numbers coming from the same analysis, that randomness is almost always the cause. In the case of my picks, both the spreads and the O/U come from the exact same place. When I punch in the two teams that are playing into the algorithm, it just spits out a total for each team, and then I do the quick mental calculations to come up with the lines. So, for example, in the Ind-Cha game, when I put in those teams, it tells me it expects the score to be 110-105 for Indy (technically, it's 110.3-104.7 but I round to the nearest whole). From there I'll just calculate the spread and total. The point is, since both those numbers come from the exact same source, it couldn't be the case the the O/U numbers are good but the spreads are bad. The algorithm is the algorithm and it's either a  good predictor of scores or it isn't. You could, of course, try to ride the "hot side", but since randomness always evens out over the long term, you're much more likely to just end up chasing wins that turn into losses, while at the same time missing out on the wins of the other side.

    There's a huge caveat to all of that however, and it's if the lopsided results happens over a large sample size, around 100-200 plays. In that case, it's likely that you missed something when you were finetuning your system and one (or more) of the stats you use to determine your outcomes is improperly weighted (or you've left out something). But in that case, the thing to do is to go back and fix the bug, not just bet the side that's been winning, because whatever the flaw is in your analysis, it's almost certainly impacting the winning side too, and the reason it's been winning is more likely due to that randomness than anything else. Eventually, that too will revert to it's expected performance and then you likely won't have winning bets on either side. In the case of my own system, although it may appear the O/U is more accurate than the spreads, that's simply due to the small sample size. Over the course of this season, both spreads and O/U are within a point of each other over around 220 bets, with spreads winning at a 55.6% clip and the O/U at 56.4%. And even that difference is almost certainly due to randomness, it could just as easily be the reverse.

     
    TheBetGuy
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    Posted: Nov. 17, 2021 - 10:40 AM ET #3

    solid night last night on a slow day, going 3-1 overall.

    Here are the picks for tonights games, as always, our picks are made at the open since our lines are ready to go the day before Vegas comes out with their opening lines which puts us in a position to bet as soon as they come out.

     

    Spreads:

    WAS +2.5

    MIA -9.5

    CLE +11

    LAL +7.5

    SAC +2

    DAL +9

    CHI +2.5*

    * quick correction, on the lines posted yesterday, I had Chi +1, obviously was meant to be Chi -1, as I always list my lines by favorites. If our line was actually Chi +1, it would have been listed above as Por -1 and we wouldn't have made a bet at Chi +2.5, as that line would only be 1.5 pts off our line and so we would have no edge

    OVER/UNDER

    WAS-CHA: Under 222.5

    NO-MIA: Over 208

    BOS-ATL: Under 214.5

    DAL-PHX: Under 220

    CHI-POR: Under 222

     

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    solid night last night on a slow day, going 3-1 overall.

    Here are the picks for tonights games, as always, our picks are made at the open since our lines are ready to go the day before Vegas comes out with their opening lines which puts us in a position to bet as soon as they come out.

     

    Spreads:

    WAS +2.5

    MIA -9.5

    CLE +11

    LAL +7.5

    SAC +2

    DAL +9

    CHI +2.5*

    * quick correction, on the lines posted yesterday, I had Chi +1, obviously was meant to be Chi -1, as I always list my lines by favorites. If our line was actually Chi +1, it would have been listed above as Por -1 and we wouldn't have made a bet at Chi +2.5, as that line would only be 1.5 pts off our line and so we would have no edge

    OVER/UNDER

    WAS-CHA: Under 222.5

    NO-MIA: Over 208

    BOS-ATL: Under 214.5

    DAL-PHX: Under 220

    CHI-POR: Under 222

     

     
    BBGunzz
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    Posted: Nov. 17, 2021 - 10:51 AM ET #4

    If a line opens at less than a 3 point difference from your algorithm but moves do you add the bet? The Ind/Det game, for example, opened at a point total of 211.5 which did not meet your criteria. It is now at 206.5 on DraftKings. Would you add or leave it alone?

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    If a line opens at less than a 3 point difference from your algorithm but moves do you add the bet? The Ind/Det game, for example, opened at a point total of 211.5 which did not meet your criteria. It is now at 206.5 on DraftKings. Would you add or leave it alone?

     
    TheBetGuy
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    Posted: Nov. 17, 2021 - 12:19 PM ET #5

    @BBGunzz

     Excellent question.

    Yes, I do. Because although the reason we bet early is to capture closing line value, that's just a bonus. The system isn't based ON capturing closing line value, it's fundamentally that I believe my algorithm is "more right" than the Vegas line, because even though it is sharp money is a big factor in line moves throughout the day, there are also other important factors that have nothing to do with capping, such as the need for bookies to be equally balanced on both sides. And even though sharp money is much more influential in line movement, there's far more public money overall in any wager, and that inevitably makes the public line inherently inefficient.

    These bets can bets can be broken down into three main types:

    1) a line that was in the dead zone at the open moves into the live zone (i.e. 3+ pts away from my line). This  type is the most common,usually happening at least once every day. This bet is considered part of the system, and as such, it's automatic (i.e. I don't make any judgement call, if it hits that 3+ pts, it's a bet. If not, it isn't).

    2) A line that was bet at the open moves toward us, and we have the ability to lock in at least a push by betting the other side, with the chance for a double win. i.e. a line opens at 200 and we take the over 200 b/c the algo says 210, and it then moves to 205, where you could take the under and have a chance to win on both if it hits between 201-205.  This is the next most common, although it's still pretty rare. Maybe 1-2 a week. This one is always a judgement call, mostly based on how big of a window there is.  Usually as a rule of thumb, the line needs to be at least in the dead zone. For instance, in the above example, I wouldn't actually make the bet, because the high range (205) is still below my line of 210. Plus I'd want a bigger window to win, otherwise you're just turning a likely winning bet into a likely push. If it rose to, say, 209-210 then I'd probably take that, as it's in my dead zone and there's a much bigger 9-10 pt window.

    3) A line that was bet at the open moves away from us. Same as #2, it's never automatic, and rarely do I do it. Plus I'd also want to see a large movement in order to justify it. If a line moves against us by a couple points, I won't double down on that. But if it moves against us by 7-8 pts, I'll think much harder about it. The thing is, you don't want to throw good money after bad, and even though broadly speaking the market can be inefficient, you do need to respect the market when it's telling you something (as it would be if it made an 8 pt move lol). First I'd look again at injuries, forums, social media etc etc to see if there's an obvious reason for the move (injuries usually, or late game scratches). If there's nothing obvious, I'll go over the numbers again. If I see nothing there, I'll just do a sort of "gut feel" look at the teams playing and if I still don;t see why the move, I'll usually bet again.

    Even though the bulk of my bets are the ones I post hereat the open, I'll usually have added a few over the course of the day that I don't post here as part of my own overall betting strategy. I don't post them because there's no way those to be accurately tracked since nobody would actually know when I made those bets and if I wanted I could just say I got them at lines which pad my stats and make my record look better.

    By posting my lines before Vegas does, and always betting the opening line (which is public for anyone to see) I make it impossible for me to manipulate the results, thus giving credibiliity to my overall record.

     

     

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    @BBGunzz

     Excellent question.

    Yes, I do. Because although the reason we bet early is to capture closing line value, that's just a bonus. The system isn't based ON capturing closing line value, it's fundamentally that I believe my algorithm is "more right" than the Vegas line, because even though it is sharp money is a big factor in line moves throughout the day, there are also other important factors that have nothing to do with capping, such as the need for bookies to be equally balanced on both sides. And even though sharp money is much more influential in line movement, there's far more public money overall in any wager, and that inevitably makes the public line inherently inefficient.

    These bets can bets can be broken down into three main types:

    1) a line that was in the dead zone at the open moves into the live zone (i.e. 3+ pts away from my line). This  type is the most common,usually happening at least once every day. This bet is considered part of the system, and as such, it's automatic (i.e. I don't make any judgement call, if it hits that 3+ pts, it's a bet. If not, it isn't).

    2) A line that was bet at the open moves toward us, and we have the ability to lock in at least a push by betting the other side, with the chance for a double win. i.e. a line opens at 200 and we take the over 200 b/c the algo says 210, and it then moves to 205, where you could take the under and have a chance to win on both if it hits between 201-205.  This is the next most common, although it's still pretty rare. Maybe 1-2 a week. This one is always a judgement call, mostly based on how big of a window there is.  Usually as a rule of thumb, the line needs to be at least in the dead zone. For instance, in the above example, I wouldn't actually make the bet, because the high range (205) is still below my line of 210. Plus I'd want a bigger window to win, otherwise you're just turning a likely winning bet into a likely push. If it rose to, say, 209-210 then I'd probably take that, as it's in my dead zone and there's a much bigger 9-10 pt window.

    3) A line that was bet at the open moves away from us. Same as #2, it's never automatic, and rarely do I do it. Plus I'd also want to see a large movement in order to justify it. If a line moves against us by a couple points, I won't double down on that. But if it moves against us by 7-8 pts, I'll think much harder about it. The thing is, you don't want to throw good money after bad, and even though broadly speaking the market can be inefficient, you do need to respect the market when it's telling you something (as it would be if it made an 8 pt move lol). First I'd look again at injuries, forums, social media etc etc to see if there's an obvious reason for the move (injuries usually, or late game scratches). If there's nothing obvious, I'll go over the numbers again. If I see nothing there, I'll just do a sort of "gut feel" look at the teams playing and if I still don;t see why the move, I'll usually bet again.

    Even though the bulk of my bets are the ones I post hereat the open, I'll usually have added a few over the course of the day that I don't post here as part of my own overall betting strategy. I don't post them because there's no way those to be accurately tracked since nobody would actually know when I made those bets and if I wanted I could just say I got them at lines which pad my stats and make my record look better.

    By posting my lines before Vegas does, and always betting the opening line (which is public for anyone to see) I make it impossible for me to manipulate the results, thus giving credibiliity to my overall record.

     

     

     
     
    TheBetGuy
    TheBetGuy
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    Joined: Nov, 2021
    Posts: 55
    Posted: Nov. 17, 2021 - 12:19 PM ET #6

    At the end of the day, this system is based on the idea that the algorithm is "more right" than Vegas. Doesn't mean "always right", that's a huge difference. It just means that I don't necessairily assume the Vegas moves are inherently "better" and if they move against me, that means the algo was wrong. The thing is, the only factor that goes into my lines are the pure stats. Of course thats a big chunk of Vegas lines, but they also have significant other factors that go into their lines, some of them have nothing to do with the actual games (such as needing to rebalance their books). All that non-statistical "noise" is what causes the inefficiencies that makes capping in the first place. If Vegas lines were perfectly efficient at all times, handicapping would be impossible because at theoretically perfecly efficient lines, the odds of any event would always be 50/50, and with the vig, it would be as impossible to make money long term on bets as it would be on slot machines.

     

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    At the end of the day, this system is based on the idea that the algorithm is "more right" than Vegas. Doesn't mean "always right", that's a huge difference. It just means that I don't necessairily assume the Vegas moves are inherently "better" and if they move against me, that means the algo was wrong. The thing is, the only factor that goes into my lines are the pure stats. Of course thats a big chunk of Vegas lines, but they also have significant other factors that go into their lines, some of them have nothing to do with the actual games (such as needing to rebalance their books). All that non-statistical "noise" is what causes the inefficiencies that makes capping in the first place. If Vegas lines were perfectly efficient at all times, handicapping would be impossible because at theoretically perfecly efficient lines, the odds of any event would always be 50/50, and with the vig, it would be as impossible to make money long term on bets as it would be on slot machines.

     

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