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    All Forums | NBA Betting Forum

    The Unwritten Rule of Playoff Basketball

    «First Previous 345 ... 678 Next Last»
    begginerboy
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    begginerboy
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    Posted: May. 12, 2014 - 7:46 PM ET #51

    Quote Originally Posted by Mcmanus:

    This could apply to other sports as well..Remember the 1986 World Series? The Sox were up 5-3 in the Bottom of the 10th with two outs and nobody on and the Mets rallied to score 3 runs to win game 6..
    And the Mets of course won game 7 

    It might hold true for other sports but that Boston series, the sox had the weight of history on them so there might be other reasons for that collapse.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcmanus:

    This could apply to other sports as well..Remember the 1986 World Series? The Sox were up 5-3 in the Bottom of the 10th with two outs and nobody on and the Mets rallied to score 3 runs to win game 6..
    And the Mets of course won game 7 

    It might hold true for other sports but that Boston series, the sox had the weight of history on them so there might be other reasons for that collapse.
     
    begginerboy
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    Posted: May. 12, 2014 - 7:49 PM ET #52

    Quote Originally Posted by GeneCam27:

    Clippers spilled their guts to get that win.... that was a heavy emotional and physical strain to win a home game that they should have been winning in the first place. 

    Speaking of give away games.....

    Miami loses this game tonight..... they'll lose the series. You heard it here first. Wrong place, wrong team, wrong time for them. Pivotal game. 

    Another way to look at it is that the Clippers (like all the other teams mentioned in my example) just got a second chance at life: a repeal of a death sentence. Game 5 should be a good one!
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeneCam27:

    Clippers spilled their guts to get that win.... that was a heavy emotional and physical strain to win a home game that they should have been winning in the first place. 

    Speaking of give away games.....

    Miami loses this game tonight..... they'll lose the series. You heard it here first. Wrong place, wrong team, wrong time for them. Pivotal game. 

    Another way to look at it is that the Clippers (like all the other teams mentioned in my example) just got a second chance at life: a repeal of a death sentence. Game 5 should be a good one!
     
    eggshog
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    Posted: May. 12, 2014 - 8:13 PM ET #53

    I think this may be true, since last year's finals supports this as well.
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    I think this may be true, since last year's finals supports this as well.
     
    begginerboy
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    Posted: May. 13, 2014 - 3:41 AM ET #54

    3 other examples, including one that involved the Clippers. The recall the Celtics/Nets game (as I was watching it) but that game and series was very strange. 1) the East was very weak. 2) The Celtics were a very young team with little experience and 3) After they won that game they acted like they had won the championship, which was a total overreaction on their part.

    "On April 29, 2012, they (the Clippers) battled back from a 27-point, second-half deficit to beat the Memphis Grizzlies on the road in Game 1 of the first round series, 99-98. But Game 2 went the other way, with the Grizzlies winning 105-98 before eventually falling on their home floor in the seventh and deciding game.

    Or the Thunder could ask fellow playoff participant Paul Pierce, the Brooklyn Nets veteran who led the way for the Boston Celtics on May 25, 2002, when they overcame a 21-point deficit to beat the New Jersey Nets in Game 3 of the Eastern Conference Finals. Three consecutive losses later, the Celtics had gone fishin', and New Jersey was on its way to the first of two consecutive Finals appearances.

    Pierce then was part of a similar situation on June 12, 2008, by which point he had been joined by current Clippers coach and then-Celtics coach Doc Rivers. Their Celtics came back from 24 points down against the Los Angeles Lakers in Game 4 of the NBA Finals, only to lose the following game (though they won the title in Game 6)."
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    3 other examples, including one that involved the Clippers. The recall the Celtics/Nets game (as I was watching it) but that game and series was very strange. 1) the East was very weak. 2) The Celtics were a very young team with little experience and 3) After they won that game they acted like they had won the championship, which was a total overreaction on their part.

    "On April 29, 2012, they (the Clippers) battled back from a 27-point, second-half deficit to beat the Memphis Grizzlies on the road in Game 1 of the first round series, 99-98. But Game 2 went the other way, with the Grizzlies winning 105-98 before eventually falling on their home floor in the seventh and deciding game.

    Or the Thunder could ask fellow playoff participant Paul Pierce, the Brooklyn Nets veteran who led the way for the Boston Celtics on May 25, 2002, when they overcame a 21-point deficit to beat the New Jersey Nets in Game 3 of the Eastern Conference Finals. Three consecutive losses later, the Celtics had gone fishin', and New Jersey was on its way to the first of two consecutive Finals appearances.

    Pierce then was part of a similar situation on June 12, 2008, by which point he had been joined by current Clippers coach and then-Celtics coach Doc Rivers. Their Celtics came back from 24 points down against the Los Angeles Lakers in Game 4 of the NBA Finals, only to lose the following game (though they won the title in Game 6)."
     
    begginerboy
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    Posted: May. 13, 2014 - 3:44 AM ET #55

    Oh, and the 3rd example (which I recall well) involves a Doc Rivers coached team (Celtics vs Lakers). That game finished the Lakers.
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    Oh, and the 3rd example (which I recall well) involves a Doc Rivers coached team (Celtics vs Lakers). That game finished the Lakers.
     
    real_talk
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    Posted: May. 13, 2014 - 3:46 AM ET #56

    Big Facts !! hmm I didn't even know about these are you going to do a write up?  Tribute to LC with OKC maybe..lol
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    Big Facts !! hmm I didn't even know about these are you going to do a write up?  Tribute to LC with OKC maybe..lol
     
    begginerboy
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    Posted: May. 13, 2014 - 3:54 AM ET #57

    Quote Originally Posted by real_talk:

    Big Facts !! hmm I didn't even know about these are you going to do a write up?  Tribute to LC with OKC maybe..lol

    No, Real-talk, this is pretty much the write-up. I'm still not sure how I wanna bet this thing, because I think the Clips could lose tomorrow and still win the series. If I buy them at the current series price and they lose, that would not make me happy. So I may just bet them with spread for tomorrow and see how it all plays out. Also recall, the Thunder have only been average to below average at home thus far in the playoffs. I'll also be checking the ref assignments to see what the NBA might be thinking/wanting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by real_talk:

    Big Facts !! hmm I didn't even know about these are you going to do a write up?  Tribute to LC with OKC maybe..lol

    No, Real-talk, this is pretty much the write-up. I'm still not sure how I wanna bet this thing, because I think the Clips could lose tomorrow and still win the series. If I buy them at the current series price and they lose, that would not make me happy. So I may just bet them with spread for tomorrow and see how it all plays out. Also recall, the Thunder have only been average to below average at home thus far in the playoffs. I'll also be checking the ref assignments to see what the NBA might be thinking/wanting.
     
    ripkarl
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    Posted: May. 13, 2014 - 4:41 AM ET #58

    bb, I'm a fan of your threads, no disrespect but your arguments are open to a lot of loopholes, although they may seem very plausible. One thing I'd like to suggest is you read this book by Rold Dobelli - The Art of Thinking Clearly: 

    https://www.amazon.com/The-Thinking-Clearly-Rolf-Dobelli/dp/0062219685 

    It sure does presents some insights that we bettors could use to interpret statistics when we cap games.
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    bb, I'm a fan of your threads, no disrespect but your arguments are open to a lot of loopholes, although they may seem very plausible. One thing I'd like to suggest is you read this book by Rold Dobelli - The Art of Thinking Clearly: 

    https://www.amazon.com/The-Thinking-Clearly-Rolf-Dobelli/dp/0062219685 

    It sure does presents some insights that we bettors could use to interpret statistics when we cap games.
     
    getrdonrite7
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    Posted: May. 13, 2014 - 5:56 AM ET #59

    I'm surprised nobody mentioned the wizards. They were up 19 in game 4 and lost. I know its against all odds to win 3 in a row but they gave away 2 games in this series where they could easily be up 3-1 instead. 
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    I'm surprised nobody mentioned the wizards. They were up 19 in game 4 and lost. I know its against all odds to win 3 in a row but they gave away 2 games in this series where they could easily be up 3-1 instead. 
     
    GeneCam27
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    Posted: May. 13, 2014 - 6:42 AM ET #60

    Quote Originally Posted by begginerboy:


    Another way to look at it is that the Clippers (like all the other teams mentioned in my example) just got a second chance at life: a repeal of a death sentence. Game 5 should be a good one!
    Are you having a write on Clipps OKC game 5? 

    I've got a really hard time seeing Clipps winning this series.... but who knows I've been cold the last couple of days. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by begginerboy:


    Another way to look at it is that the Clippers (like all the other teams mentioned in my example) just got a second chance at life: a repeal of a death sentence. Game 5 should be a good one!
    Are you having a write on Clipps OKC game 5? 

    I've got a really hard time seeing Clipps winning this series.... but who knows I've been cold the last couple of days. 
     
    LONKJON
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    Posted: May. 13, 2014 - 6:53 AM ET #61

    waiting for your insight ..


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    waiting for your insight ..


     
    Peewee2820
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    Posted: May. 13, 2014 - 9:24 AM ET #62

    Rockets vs Suns 1994 playoffs. Rockets lose game one at home with a 6 point lead going into the fourth quarter. Rockets then lose game two at home with an 18 point lead going into the fourth quarter as they are outscored 26 - 8 in the fourth and lose in Overtime. 

    Charles Barkley telling the media he is upset he won't be coming back to Houston for this series (implying a sweep) because he loves the Strip Clubs in Houston. 

    Of course you know the rest. The Rockets destroy them twice in Phoenix to even up the series and then easily win games  5 and 7 on their way to winning it all.

    I am sure there are plenty of other examples like that. It is like playing blackjack and you want to kill the moron playing third base as he/she has killed the table hitting on a 13 against the dealers 6. But you conveniently forgot the 10 times he/she did that, and absolutely saved the table.
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    Rockets vs Suns 1994 playoffs. Rockets lose game one at home with a 6 point lead going into the fourth quarter. Rockets then lose game two at home with an 18 point lead going into the fourth quarter as they are outscored 26 - 8 in the fourth and lose in Overtime. 

    Charles Barkley telling the media he is upset he won't be coming back to Houston for this series (implying a sweep) because he loves the Strip Clubs in Houston. 

    Of course you know the rest. The Rockets destroy them twice in Phoenix to even up the series and then easily win games  5 and 7 on their way to winning it all.

    I am sure there are plenty of other examples like that. It is like playing blackjack and you want to kill the moron playing third base as he/she has killed the table hitting on a 13 against the dealers 6. But you conveniently forgot the 10 times he/she did that, and absolutely saved the table.
     
    scalabrine
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    Posted: May. 13, 2014 - 9:34 AM ET #63

    Quote Originally Posted by begginerboy:

    For all of you who waited patiently, here it is. And I hope it is worth your while.

    The law says: In a series between two evenly matched teams, the team that gives away a game (and understanding what this means is crucial to understanding the law) will lose the series 90% of the time; a percentage that is directly proportional to their chances of winning the game they gave away.

    Basketball playoff history is so replete with examples of this that I can’t believe no one discovered this law sooner. Before I delve in to the examples, however, we have to define what we mean by “give away a game.” Of course, there is a subjective element to saying a team gave away a game, so we will have to do our best to remove that level of subjectivity from our definition. We do that by saying, a team gives away a game when (within the laws of statistical probability) they had a 90% or more chance of winning that game (meaning, they would win that game 9 out of ten times in that exact situation) when they proceeded to lose it. A team losing a game on a last second shot is not enough to qualify under this law unless what transpired before that shot was so unlikely and improbable that it would not happen 90% of the time. 

    Now let’s give some concrete examples to show what we mean.

    One of my favorite examples (and one we’ve see in a countless time on replays) was Bird stealing the inbound pass from Isiah in game 5 of the ECF, and feeding it to DJ for the score and the win. That loss was so devastating for the Pistons (who were, to my mind, the better team that year, as the Celtics were old, beat-up and on their decline) that they never recovered, even though they won the next game.

    Other examples, in no particular order, are: from this year’s playoffs, the Grizz up by 5 with about a minute to play in game 4, with KD and Westbrook shooting bricks, go to OT and lose the game. Although they won game 5, they never recovered from that loss and lost the series. The 2000 Blazers/Lakers series had two such games. First, game 3, where the Blazers were ahead for the 1st three quarters only to lose by 2 at the end. And then, of course, there was their historic game 7 meltdown, where they were up 75-60 in the 4th. Game 2 of Heat/Mavs series, during the 2011 finals, with the Heat up 88-73 with 7:15 to play in the game (LBJ and Wade were preening), collapsed and lost. The Heat, like all the others, never recovered from that loss. The Spurs, last year’s game 6, up 93-89 (with 28 seconds to play) missed a couple of free throws, which they would normally make, only to have Ray Allen send the game to OT, and lose. Game 3 of Mavs/Heat 2006 Finals, Mavs were up 91-81 with 5 minutes to play (about to go up 3-0 in the series) and they only end up scoring 5 more points in the next five minutes, losing the game by two points 96-98 and never winning another game.

    Of course, there are many reasons why this law hold true so often, reasons that I don't have time to get into, lest my wife bans me from the bedroom. So I'll just end with this:

    Which team does this law apply to, as we sit here today: You guessed it, the OKC Thunder. 

    A note to Scal: I need a snazzy name to this law, like your law of national embarrassment.


    I like this law.

    I want to see the physical universe obey this law.

    I will call it: The Law of CSI (CSI = Comeback/Series Intertwined)

    We can think of the properties of this law as a double-helixed DNA, genetically encoded into these games, the "nature" of the refereeing and the play of the team that made the comeback overpowering the "nurture" of the opposing coach who lost the crucial game and attempts to do everything in his power to have his team overcome the devastating loss of the previous comeback, only to fail as heads hang low as they ultimately lose the series.

    The CSI serves to honor the investigative properties of one BeginnerBoy, as he forensically dissected playoff series play throughout NBA history while simulataneously exploring his Michael Sam side, only to come to two conclusions: The Clippers will win this series and he is a full-blooded heterosexual male. ChipNDales watch out! 
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    Quote Originally Posted by begginerboy:

    For all of you who waited patiently, here it is. And I hope it is worth your while.

    The law says: In a series between two evenly matched teams, the team that gives away a game (and understanding what this means is crucial to understanding the law) will lose the series 90% of the time; a percentage that is directly proportional to their chances of winning the game they gave away.

    Basketball playoff history is so replete with examples of this that I can’t believe no one discovered this law sooner. Before I delve in to the examples, however, we have to define what we mean by “give away a game.” Of course, there is a subjective element to saying a team gave away a game, so we will have to do our best to remove that level of subjectivity from our definition. We do that by saying, a team gives away a game when (within the laws of statistical probability) they had a 90% or more chance of winning that game (meaning, they would win that game 9 out of ten times in that exact situation) when they proceeded to lose it. A team losing a game on a last second shot is not enough to qualify under this law unless what transpired before that shot was so unlikely and improbable that it would not happen 90% of the time. 

    Now let’s give some concrete examples to show what we mean.

    One of my favorite examples (and one we’ve see in a countless time on replays) was Bird stealing the inbound pass from Isiah in game 5 of the ECF, and feeding it to DJ for the score and the win. That loss was so devastating for the Pistons (who were, to my mind, the better team that year, as the Celtics were old, beat-up and on their decline) that they never recovered, even though they won the next game.

    Other examples, in no particular order, are: from this year’s playoffs, the Grizz up by 5 with about a minute to play in game 4, with KD and Westbrook shooting bricks, go to OT and lose the game. Although they won game 5, they never recovered from that loss and lost the series. The 2000 Blazers/Lakers series had two such games. First, game 3, where the Blazers were ahead for the 1st three quarters only to lose by 2 at the end. And then, of course, there was their historic game 7 meltdown, where they were up 75-60 in the 4th. Game 2 of Heat/Mavs series, during the 2011 finals, with the Heat up 88-73 with 7:15 to play in the game (LBJ and Wade were preening), collapsed and lost. The Heat, like all the others, never recovered from that loss. The Spurs, last year’s game 6, up 93-89 (with 28 seconds to play) missed a couple of free throws, which they would normally make, only to have Ray Allen send the game to OT, and lose. Game 3 of Mavs/Heat 2006 Finals, Mavs were up 91-81 with 5 minutes to play (about to go up 3-0 in the series) and they only end up scoring 5 more points in the next five minutes, losing the game by two points 96-98 and never winning another game.

    Of course, there are many reasons why this law hold true so often, reasons that I don't have time to get into, lest my wife bans me from the bedroom. So I'll just end with this:

    Which team does this law apply to, as we sit here today: You guessed it, the OKC Thunder. 

    A note to Scal: I need a snazzy name to this law, like your law of national embarrassment.


    I like this law.

    I want to see the physical universe obey this law.

    I will call it: The Law of CSI (CSI = Comeback/Series Intertwined)

    We can think of the properties of this law as a double-helixed DNA, genetically encoded into these games, the "nature" of the refereeing and the play of the team that made the comeback overpowering the "nurture" of the opposing coach who lost the crucial game and attempts to do everything in his power to have his team overcome the devastating loss of the previous comeback, only to fail as heads hang low as they ultimately lose the series.

    The CSI serves to honor the investigative properties of one BeginnerBoy, as he forensically dissected playoff series play throughout NBA history while simulataneously exploring his Michael Sam side, only to come to two conclusions: The Clippers will win this series and he is a full-blooded heterosexual male. ChipNDales watch out! 
     
    begginerboy
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    Posted: May. 13, 2014 - 5:30 PM ET #64

    Quote Originally Posted by Peewee2820:

    Rockets vs Suns 1994 playoffs. Rockets lose game one at home with a 6 point lead going into the fourth quarter. Rockets then lose game two at home with an 18 point lead going into the fourth quarter as they are outscored 26 - 8 in the fourth and lose in Overtime. 

    Charles Barkley telling the media he is upset he won't be coming back to Houston for this series (implying a sweep) because he loves the Strip Clubs in Houston. 

    Of course you know the rest. The Rockets destroy them twice in Phoenix to even up the series and then easily win games  5 and 7 on their way to winning it all.

    I am sure there are plenty of other examples like that. It is like playing blackjack and you want to kill the moron playing third base as he/she has killed the table hitting on a 13 against the dealers 6. But you conveniently forgot the 10 times he/she did that, and absolutely saved the table.

    Well, that's why it is the 90% rule: there are always exceptions. But that series was also a very strange one (for several reasons), and the Rockets were not just any team; they were a tested group, NBA champs no less.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peewee2820:

    Rockets vs Suns 1994 playoffs. Rockets lose game one at home with a 6 point lead going into the fourth quarter. Rockets then lose game two at home with an 18 point lead going into the fourth quarter as they are outscored 26 - 8 in the fourth and lose in Overtime. 

    Charles Barkley telling the media he is upset he won't be coming back to Houston for this series (implying a sweep) because he loves the Strip Clubs in Houston. 

    Of course you know the rest. The Rockets destroy them twice in Phoenix to even up the series and then easily win games  5 and 7 on their way to winning it all.

    I am sure there are plenty of other examples like that. It is like playing blackjack and you want to kill the moron playing third base as he/she has killed the table hitting on a 13 against the dealers 6. But you conveniently forgot the 10 times he/she did that, and absolutely saved the table.

    Well, that's why it is the 90% rule: there are always exceptions. But that series was also a very strange one (for several reasons), and the Rockets were not just any team; they were a tested group, NBA champs no less.
     
    FunkFreaker
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    Posted: May. 13, 2014 - 5:44 PM ET #65

    I'm totally agree with Peewee2820

    How can you sure this is 90% rule. You think that 9 out of 10 series where we have huge comeback or some psychological disaster for one of the sides lead to this "law"... Maybe you just think and search in one direction. There are so many series during the years which points the opposite... It's hard to compare series to series...

    It's a nice thread and good discussion nevertheless
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    I'm totally agree with Peewee2820

    How can you sure this is 90% rule. You think that 9 out of 10 series where we have huge comeback or some psychological disaster for one of the sides lead to this "law"... Maybe you just think and search in one direction. There are so many series during the years which points the opposite... It's hard to compare series to series...

    It's a nice thread and good discussion nevertheless
     
    Gothcha1
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    Posted: May. 13, 2014 - 5:45 PM ET #66

    Nice work with real examples.

    I may not agree with this theory 100% but I respect the effort you put here
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    Nice work with real examples.

    I may not agree with this theory 100% but I respect the effort you put here
     
    thorpe
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    Posted: May. 13, 2014 - 5:51 PM ET #67

    Fisher hitting the shot in San Antonio in a game 5 with .4 seconds on the clock.  Spurs were done after that...


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    Fisher hitting the shot in San Antonio in a game 5 with .4 seconds on the clock.  Spurs were done after that...


     
    scalabrine
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    Posted: May. 13, 2014 - 5:53 PM ET #68

    Quote Originally Posted by thorpe:

    Fisher hitting the shot in San Antonio in a game 5 with .4 seconds on the clock.  Spurs were done after that...



    Brutal brutal brutal loss. Second to Ray Allen in Spurs history.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thorpe:

    Fisher hitting the shot in San Antonio in a game 5 with .4 seconds on the clock.  Spurs were done after that...



    Brutal brutal brutal loss. Second to Ray Allen in Spurs history.
     
    begginerboy
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    Posted: May. 13, 2014 - 6:11 PM ET #69

    Forgot that one.
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    Forgot that one.
     
    composite
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    Posted: May. 13, 2014 - 6:11 PM ET #70

    Quote Originally Posted by thorpe:

    Fisher hitting the shot in San Antonio in a game 5 with .4 seconds on the clock.  Spurs were done after that...


    Dunno why.  Everyone forgets that Duncan made an absolute prayer of a shot with 2.0 left to take the lead in the 0.4 game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thorpe:

    Fisher hitting the shot in San Antonio in a game 5 with .4 seconds on the clock.  Spurs were done after that...


    Dunno why.  Everyone forgets that Duncan made an absolute prayer of a shot with 2.0 left to take the lead in the 0.4 game.

     
    Gothcha1
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    Posted: May. 13, 2014 - 6:20 PM ET #71

    Yeah but winning a game 5 brutal or not is usually curtains for the other team
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    Yeah but winning a game 5 brutal or not is usually curtains for the other team
     
    begginerboy
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    Posted: May. 13, 2014 - 6:21 PM ET #72

    Add: Celtics down 3-1 and 109-103 to the Sixers (1981?) in the 4th with under 2 to play. They come back to win the game and the series.
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    Add: Celtics down 3-1 and 109-103 to the Sixers (1981?) in the 4th with under 2 to play. They come back to win the game and the series.
     
    begginerboy
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    Posted: May. 14, 2014 - 12:51 AM ET #73

    Well, folks, after what we saw tonight (a second miracle comeback, with the help of the refs) this trend goes out the window. The Clippers (or the refs) returned the favor and gave the momentum right back to the Thunder in what should have been an easy win. If anything, the "rule" now applies to the Thunder, as they will win this series. 

    But we still have game 6, to win some money. I'll have write-up for that game. In the meantime, if anyone wants to help me out with the research I'd be grateful. I'll be looking for articles on playoff games where a team got unequivocally hosed by the refs and then look to see how the next game played out in relation to the ATS.
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    Well, folks, after what we saw tonight (a second miracle comeback, with the help of the refs) this trend goes out the window. The Clippers (or the refs) returned the favor and gave the momentum right back to the Thunder in what should have been an easy win. If anything, the "rule" now applies to the Thunder, as they will win this series. 

    But we still have game 6, to win some money. I'll have write-up for that game. In the meantime, if anyone wants to help me out with the research I'd be grateful. I'll be looking for articles on playoff games where a team got unequivocally hosed by the refs and then look to see how the next game played out in relation to the ATS.
     
    GeneCam27
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    Posted: May. 14, 2014 - 12:56 AM ET #74

    BB it looks like we're back to square one with this one.....

    they're gonna play 6 games only to have it be decided by 1 sudden death game 7.... who would have thought all along? 
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    BB it looks like we're back to square one with this one.....

    they're gonna play 6 games only to have it be decided by 1 sudden death game 7.... who would have thought all along? 
     
     
    carloscipper
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    Posted: May. 14, 2014 - 1:00 AM ET #75

    Dont look......Clippers big in game 6.....the league and refs will give them back this game......Game 7 would be another story.
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    Dont look......Clippers big in game 6.....the league and refs will give them back this game......Game 7 would be another story.
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