Again, you're comparing the player Steph has become to Trae at 22. It's clear you didn't watch very much Warriors basketball when Steph was 22. Steph was more offensively efficient. No shit. He's the best shooter in history. That's not what we're debating. And like you said, Trae is a better true point, which supports my stance. Steph does play off ball more but make no mistake, he was and is the Warriors point guard. Even when Monta was there and they kind of shared the role, Monta was never actually a point. And it was always clear that Steph was brought in to be the point. Trae is more of a true point, even though he is a hog. Curry has the handle and flashy passes of a true point, but not the instincts of a facilitator. Draymond plays that role as a point forward. Steph is a good finisher now but at 22, he lacked the strength and explosiveness to finish at the rim in the NBA. Trae scores more than double in the paint as Steph at 22 and Steph's 4 points in the paint were always off floaters and short jumpers. Trae gets more assist. Has a higher assist to turnover ration. Commits less personal fouls. Steph was grabby as shit at 22. These are the things a guy who actually watched the games, and understand the game, are aware of. Not some dude who watched a couple games and then looked up stats.
R.I.P. #94 MARSHAWN KNEELAND - DC4L
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@ThrowDemDarts
Again, you're comparing the player Steph has become to Trae at 22. It's clear you didn't watch very much Warriors basketball when Steph was 22. Steph was more offensively efficient. No shit. He's the best shooter in history. That's not what we're debating. And like you said, Trae is a better true point, which supports my stance. Steph does play off ball more but make no mistake, he was and is the Warriors point guard. Even when Monta was there and they kind of shared the role, Monta was never actually a point. And it was always clear that Steph was brought in to be the point. Trae is more of a true point, even though he is a hog. Curry has the handle and flashy passes of a true point, but not the instincts of a facilitator. Draymond plays that role as a point forward. Steph is a good finisher now but at 22, he lacked the strength and explosiveness to finish at the rim in the NBA. Trae scores more than double in the paint as Steph at 22 and Steph's 4 points in the paint were always off floaters and short jumpers. Trae gets more assist. Has a higher assist to turnover ration. Commits less personal fouls. Steph was grabby as shit at 22. These are the things a guy who actually watched the games, and understand the game, are aware of. Not some dude who watched a couple games and then looked up stats.
@ThrowDemDarts Again, you're comparing the player Steph has become to Trae at 22. It's clear you didn't watch very much Warriors basketball when Steph was 22. Steph was more offensively efficient. No shit. He's the best shooter in history. That's not what we're debating. And like you said, Trae is a better true point, which supports my stance. Steph does play off ball more but make no mistake, he was and is the Warriors point guard. Even when Monta was there and they kind of shared the role, Monta was never actually a point. And it was always clear that Steph was brought in to be the point. Trae is more of a true point, even though he is a hog. Curry has the handle and flashy passes of a true point, but not the instincts of a facilitator. Draymond plays that role as a point forward. Steph is a good finisher now but at 22, he lacked the strength and explosiveness to finish at the rim in the NBA. Trae scores more than double in the paint as Steph at 22 and Steph's 4 points in the paint were always off floaters and short jumpers. Trae gets more assist. Has a higher assist to turnover ration. Commits less personal fouls. Steph was grabby as shit at 22. These are the things a guy who actually watched the games, and understand the game, are aware of. Not some dude who watched a couple games and then looked up stats.
I'm not, I'm comparing Steph and Trae in college, as rookies, as 22 year olds. Steph is on a different level. You can find pgs that can do what Trae does if you give them the rope to chuck up tons of inefficient shots. You can't find PGs who can score like Steph. There is absolutely nothing Trae does that makes him better than a 22 year old steph. Steph was one of the most efficient offensive players in the NBA as a 22 year old. Trae is bad on D, a decent playmaker, and an inefficient shooter. I have no clue what you see in him to say he's better than a 22 year old steph. There's nothing special about him as long as he shoots 34% from 3. The Hawks would be so much better with an efficient player like a 22 year old steph than inefficient Trae Young. Not even close.
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Quote Originally Posted by StumpTownStu:
@ThrowDemDarts Again, you're comparing the player Steph has become to Trae at 22. It's clear you didn't watch very much Warriors basketball when Steph was 22. Steph was more offensively efficient. No shit. He's the best shooter in history. That's not what we're debating. And like you said, Trae is a better true point, which supports my stance. Steph does play off ball more but make no mistake, he was and is the Warriors point guard. Even when Monta was there and they kind of shared the role, Monta was never actually a point. And it was always clear that Steph was brought in to be the point. Trae is more of a true point, even though he is a hog. Curry has the handle and flashy passes of a true point, but not the instincts of a facilitator. Draymond plays that role as a point forward. Steph is a good finisher now but at 22, he lacked the strength and explosiveness to finish at the rim in the NBA. Trae scores more than double in the paint as Steph at 22 and Steph's 4 points in the paint were always off floaters and short jumpers. Trae gets more assist. Has a higher assist to turnover ration. Commits less personal fouls. Steph was grabby as shit at 22. These are the things a guy who actually watched the games, and understand the game, are aware of. Not some dude who watched a couple games and then looked up stats.
I'm not, I'm comparing Steph and Trae in college, as rookies, as 22 year olds. Steph is on a different level. You can find pgs that can do what Trae does if you give them the rope to chuck up tons of inefficient shots. You can't find PGs who can score like Steph. There is absolutely nothing Trae does that makes him better than a 22 year old steph. Steph was one of the most efficient offensive players in the NBA as a 22 year old. Trae is bad on D, a decent playmaker, and an inefficient shooter. I have no clue what you see in him to say he's better than a 22 year old steph. There's nothing special about him as long as he shoots 34% from 3. The Hawks would be so much better with an efficient player like a 22 year old steph than inefficient Trae Young. Not even close.
another thread on a hot guy is as good as whoever. remember the tatum is as good as kobe thread
It's hard not to treat this as a joke but...
there is 0 chance trae young is in the same league as step curry. sure you can compare when they are 5 years old, and we can debate that forever, but it's the hawks vs embiid on one leg, they didn't play great d against young a lot of open shots.
steph curry changed the entire league. trae young models his game AFTER curry.
i kinda don't know what else to say...
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another thread on a hot guy is as good as whoever. remember the tatum is as good as kobe thread
It's hard not to treat this as a joke but...
there is 0 chance trae young is in the same league as step curry. sure you can compare when they are 5 years old, and we can debate that forever, but it's the hawks vs embiid on one leg, they didn't play great d against young a lot of open shots.
steph curry changed the entire league. trae young models his game AFTER curry.
and i believe most would trade for lillard over trae young. even though lillard is 30 and young 22. same position
i would take Ice Tray every single time...Lillard is a born loser in this league, he's never won anything, he's never been a true team player, he's never made his teammates better, and has become the choker of the league...meanwhile IT has already proven his worth to a franchise that was completely irrelevant since Dominique Wilkens days (that one year they ended 1st in the east with Millsap means nothing as they got bounced in the playoffs as the frauds they were)
MAGAm Yisrael Chai
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Quote Originally Posted by budwiser:
and i believe most would trade for lillard over trae young. even though lillard is 30 and young 22. same position
i would take Ice Tray every single time...Lillard is a born loser in this league, he's never won anything, he's never been a true team player, he's never made his teammates better, and has become the choker of the league...meanwhile IT has already proven his worth to a franchise that was completely irrelevant since Dominique Wilkens days (that one year they ended 1st in the east with Millsap means nothing as they got bounced in the playoffs as the frauds they were)
I'll throw my $0.02 on the lower shooting %. *And these are numbers from this year.
FGA per game: Steph #2, Trae #22
PPG: Steph #1 32.0, Trae #14 25.3
Points per Attempt: Steph - 1.47, Trae - 1.43
Now... Trae averages 24.3 assist points per game as well to Steph's 14.7
PPG + APPG: Trae 49.6, Curry 46.7 .... and for fun Doncic 49.8 (and grabs nearly as many rebounds as Steph and Trae combined)
One thing Trae has improved on this year, especially under McMillan, is taking less shots, distributing the ball more and drawing more fouls. You'll see several times a game, Trae will sprint past a defender even in the open floor and then just stop and see if they will run into him. It's annoying but not a bad strategy for an undersized PG who is a great FT shooter and gets primary defenders in foul trouble. This is a great debate and it'll be fun to see it play out over time but to me, their styles will start to drift apart more and more as Trae matures and begins to lean on his speed and passing ability.
I'll also say: Luka is perfect for Dallas and Trae is perfect for Atlanta; their styles, personality, and demeanor are exactly what each town/franchise needed. **If Cam Reddish amounts to much of anything at all though, Atlanta won the trade.
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I'll throw my $0.02 on the lower shooting %. *And these are numbers from this year.
FGA per game: Steph #2, Trae #22
PPG: Steph #1 32.0, Trae #14 25.3
Points per Attempt: Steph - 1.47, Trae - 1.43
Now... Trae averages 24.3 assist points per game as well to Steph's 14.7
PPG + APPG: Trae 49.6, Curry 46.7 .... and for fun Doncic 49.8 (and grabs nearly as many rebounds as Steph and Trae combined)
One thing Trae has improved on this year, especially under McMillan, is taking less shots, distributing the ball more and drawing more fouls. You'll see several times a game, Trae will sprint past a defender even in the open floor and then just stop and see if they will run into him. It's annoying but not a bad strategy for an undersized PG who is a great FT shooter and gets primary defenders in foul trouble. This is a great debate and it'll be fun to see it play out over time but to me, their styles will start to drift apart more and more as Trae matures and begins to lean on his speed and passing ability.
I'll also say: Luka is perfect for Dallas and Trae is perfect for Atlanta; their styles, personality, and demeanor are exactly what each town/franchise needed. **If Cam Reddish amounts to much of anything at all though, Atlanta won the trade.
The comparison is hard to make and I will try in a second. But I don´t think when their careers are set and done, anyone will be able to say that Trae was up to the level of these Luka and Steph. All will be 1st ballot HOF, no doubt. But Steph and Luka will be in the discussions of top 10 ever, Trae wo´t.
Anyways, just for the sake of the discussion and because I love baiting on these topics, Ill give you my points on why Trae is not to the level of Luca and Steph, at the start of their careers.
Luka: Luka is a PG with the body of a SF. Trae Young gives you absolutely nothing on defense. Seriously, NOTHING. Luka gives you rebounds, and gives you tough contested shots when you are against him. No PG can bully him, and he can guard or at least slow down, almost any SG and SF in the league as well. Unfortunately there is no stat to measure these invisible defensive factors, but they are the reason why Rudy Gobert has had an inane +- throughouth his career. I think +- is the only right way to analyze a player.
Steph:Trae and Steph are very similar. Almost lookalikes. Both are defensive liabilities, and Steph knows it and acts accordingly now. However, the main difference in their numbers is FG% and especially 3p%. Steph is a sharpshooter who has averaged 40% from 3+ in all seasons of his career, except COVID season where he dealt with injuries and was an off season. Trae averages 34%. In FG % terms, Steph in his early years was also at almost 5% better than Trae. Finally Trae averages one more TO than Steph and 0.5 steals less per game than Steph back then. In Stephs rookie year he averaged 1.9 steals!!
The key to winning NBA games is succesful possesions on offense, and being able to force your opponent to unsuccesfull possesions when you are defending. Low FG% and Turnovers hurt you on offense, while contested shots and steals work on your favor on defense. I think in all of these 4 areas, Luka and Steph are better than Trae, and in Stephs case, he was better even when he was in his first 2 seasons.
Trae is filthy and exciting to watch. But if you were an owner that wants to bring a championship to your city, he is not the guy you´d be taking
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The comparison is hard to make and I will try in a second. But I don´t think when their careers are set and done, anyone will be able to say that Trae was up to the level of these Luka and Steph. All will be 1st ballot HOF, no doubt. But Steph and Luka will be in the discussions of top 10 ever, Trae wo´t.
Anyways, just for the sake of the discussion and because I love baiting on these topics, Ill give you my points on why Trae is not to the level of Luca and Steph, at the start of their careers.
Luka: Luka is a PG with the body of a SF. Trae Young gives you absolutely nothing on defense. Seriously, NOTHING. Luka gives you rebounds, and gives you tough contested shots when you are against him. No PG can bully him, and he can guard or at least slow down, almost any SG and SF in the league as well. Unfortunately there is no stat to measure these invisible defensive factors, but they are the reason why Rudy Gobert has had an inane +- throughouth his career. I think +- is the only right way to analyze a player.
Steph:Trae and Steph are very similar. Almost lookalikes. Both are defensive liabilities, and Steph knows it and acts accordingly now. However, the main difference in their numbers is FG% and especially 3p%. Steph is a sharpshooter who has averaged 40% from 3+ in all seasons of his career, except COVID season where he dealt with injuries and was an off season. Trae averages 34%. In FG % terms, Steph in his early years was also at almost 5% better than Trae. Finally Trae averages one more TO than Steph and 0.5 steals less per game than Steph back then. In Stephs rookie year he averaged 1.9 steals!!
The key to winning NBA games is succesful possesions on offense, and being able to force your opponent to unsuccesfull possesions when you are defending. Low FG% and Turnovers hurt you on offense, while contested shots and steals work on your favor on defense. I think in all of these 4 areas, Luka and Steph are better than Trae, and in Stephs case, he was better even when he was in his first 2 seasons.
Trae is filthy and exciting to watch. But if you were an owner that wants to bring a championship to your city, he is not the guy you´d be taking
He said at the age of 22. Where their careers were/are at the age of 22. Not all-time. I promise you dudes were even watching Steph when he was 22. If you say you were i'd call you a liar to your face. I was going to 20-30 games a year for the 1st have of Stephs career. I watched every other game on TV except one or two a year. I've seen more or less every minute of that man's career. You guys are thinking of Steph now or remembering Steph when he was like 26-27 because I promise you guys weren't watching the Warriors when Steph was 22.
R.I.P. #94 MARSHAWN KNEELAND - DC4L
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@gutinstinctus
@slapshot101
@GamblinDAWG
He said at the age of 22. Where their careers were/are at the age of 22. Not all-time. I promise you dudes were even watching Steph when he was 22. If you say you were i'd call you a liar to your face. I was going to 20-30 games a year for the 1st have of Stephs career. I watched every other game on TV except one or two a year. I've seen more or less every minute of that man's career. You guys are thinking of Steph now or remembering Steph when he was like 26-27 because I promise you guys weren't watching the Warriors when Steph was 22.
You are correct. I was and that Warriors team was the best I've ever seen. There is no comparison. how they lost to the Cavaliers they needed Durant injured and Draymond Green to be a fool...
Steph Curry is a phenom. You have to tune in. Nobody HAS to tune in to see Trae Young.
just an incredible, incredible team that Warriors team, before Durant and Klay got injured.
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@StumpTownStu
You are correct. I was and that Warriors team was the best I've ever seen. There is no comparison. how they lost to the Cavaliers they needed Durant injured and Draymond Green to be a fool...
Steph Curry is a phenom. You have to tune in. Nobody HAS to tune in to see Trae Young.
just an incredible, incredible team that Warriors team, before Durant and Klay got injured.
I would agree with you 20 years ago Lillard for Young is a stupid trade. Only a fool GM would do it
But times have changed. You need to win now, or tank. Look at the Nets, they pick up guys and give up draft picks. Look at the Lakers, the Bucks, Clippers they all built by free agency. The Sixers were build by tanking over the years.
And I want to keep my job as a GM, not build a team for a lucky future GM.
There's no question in most people's minds that Lillard is the better player right now, and most probably for the next 2 years.
As for choking, he did pull the team out of the bubble.
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@packersbackers
I would agree with you 20 years ago Lillard for Young is a stupid trade. Only a fool GM would do it
But times have changed. You need to win now, or tank. Look at the Nets, they pick up guys and give up draft picks. Look at the Lakers, the Bucks, Clippers they all built by free agency. The Sixers were build by tanking over the years.
And I want to keep my job as a GM, not build a team for a lucky future GM.
There's no question in most people's minds that Lillard is the better player right now, and most probably for the next 2 years.
As for choking, he did pull the team out of the bubble.
Hard to forget Doncic calling Beverly too small. Basically took him out of the starting lineup for Jackson loll
Of course Doncic will never be as good as Jordan, but it reminds me of when Jordan said to Muggsy "shoot it you f ing midget" and Muggsy said he was never the same. Basketball can be a nasty sport these guys are big and physical and fast quick athletic you name it
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Hard to forget Doncic calling Beverly too small. Basically took him out of the starting lineup for Jackson loll
Of course Doncic will never be as good as Jordan, but it reminds me of when Jordan said to Muggsy "shoot it you f ing midget" and Muggsy said he was never the same. Basketball can be a nasty sport these guys are big and physical and fast quick athletic you name it
@gutinstinctus @slapshot101 @GamblinDAWG He said at the age of 22. Where their careers were/are at the age of 22. Not all-time. I promise you dudes were even watching Steph when he was 22. If you say you were i'd call you a liar to your face. I was going to 20-30 games a year for the 1st have of Stephs career. I watched every other game on TV except one or two a year. I've seen more or less every minute of that man's career. You guys are thinking of Steph now or remembering Steph when he was like 26-27 because I promise you guys weren't watching the Warriors when Steph was 22.
Youre trying to tell me an above average, poor defending, inefficient point guard is better at 22 than arguably the most skilled and talented offensive player to ever play the game of basketball when he was 22? Lmao. That’s circus comedy.
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Quote Originally Posted by StumpTownStu:
@gutinstinctus @slapshot101 @GamblinDAWG He said at the age of 22. Where their careers were/are at the age of 22. Not all-time. I promise you dudes were even watching Steph when he was 22. If you say you were i'd call you a liar to your face. I was going to 20-30 games a year for the 1st have of Stephs career. I watched every other game on TV except one or two a year. I've seen more or less every minute of that man's career. You guys are thinking of Steph now or remembering Steph when he was like 26-27 because I promise you guys weren't watching the Warriors when Steph was 22.
Youre trying to tell me an above average, poor defending, inefficient point guard is better at 22 than arguably the most skilled and talented offensive player to ever play the game of basketball when he was 22? Lmao. That’s circus comedy.
@StumpTownStu Since you and BB are confused.. Trae 1st 3 years: 2018-2019..41.8% FG%...32.4% 3 Point FG% 2019-2020..43.7% FG%...36.1% 3 Point FG% 2020-2021..43.8% FG%...34.3% 3 Point FG% Curry 1st 3 years: 2009-2010..46.2% FG%...43.7% 3 Point FG% 2010-2011 48% FG%.....44.2% 3 Point FG% 2011-2012 49% FG%.....45.5% 3 Point FG% Now imagine if Curry was the #1 Option on the Dubs....Also if he did not have ankle problems...Lots of variables....Curry way more efficient as a scorer...Look at that the 3 point FG% for the 1st 3 years of each player.
Mayweather bet 450000 on
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Quote Originally Posted by davemsh:
@StumpTownStu Since you and BB are confused.. Trae 1st 3 years: 2018-2019..41.8% FG%...32.4% 3 Point FG% 2019-2020..43.7% FG%...36.1% 3 Point FG% 2020-2021..43.8% FG%...34.3% 3 Point FG% Curry 1st 3 years: 2009-2010..46.2% FG%...43.7% 3 Point FG% 2010-2011 48% FG%.....44.2% 3 Point FG% 2011-2012 49% FG%.....45.5% 3 Point FG% Now imagine if Curry was the #1 Option on the Dubs....Also if he did not have ankle problems...Lots of variables....Curry way more efficient as a scorer...Look at that the 3 point FG% for the 1st 3 years of each player.
Yes, you're right. I was not watching every game of Steph's career. I was too busy doing important things that REALLY matter. You know, like working, making money, traveling and just....wait for it....enjoying life.
1
@StumpTown
Yes, you're right. I was not watching every game of Steph's career. I was too busy doing important things that REALLY matter. You know, like working, making money, traveling and just....wait for it....enjoying life.
Quote Originally Posted by StumpTownStu: @gutinstinctus @slapshot101 @GamblinDAWG He said at the age of 22. Where their careers were/are at the age of 22. Not all-time. I promise you dudes were even watching Steph when he was 22. If you say you were i'd call you a liar to your face. I was going to 20-30 games a year for the 1st have of Stephs career. I watched every other game on TV except one or two a year. I've seen more or less every minute of that man's career. You guys are thinking of Steph now or remembering Steph when he was like 26-27 because I promise you guys weren't watching the Warriors when Steph was 22. Youre trying to tell me an above average, poor defending, inefficient point guard is better at 22 than arguably the most skilled and talented offensive player to ever play the game of basketball when he was 22? Lmao. That’s circus comedy.
You weren't watching Steph at 22. You weren't even watching him at 24. That much is clear. You're a bandwagon jonnie come lately fan. Like I said, i've seen more Steph Curry games live than you've seen period. He had to develop his NBA game over time. You're imaging Steph at 26.
R.I.P. #94 MARSHAWN KNEELAND - DC4L
1
Quote Originally Posted by ThrowDemDarts:
Quote Originally Posted by StumpTownStu: @gutinstinctus @slapshot101 @GamblinDAWG He said at the age of 22. Where their careers were/are at the age of 22. Not all-time. I promise you dudes were even watching Steph when he was 22. If you say you were i'd call you a liar to your face. I was going to 20-30 games a year for the 1st have of Stephs career. I watched every other game on TV except one or two a year. I've seen more or less every minute of that man's career. You guys are thinking of Steph now or remembering Steph when he was like 26-27 because I promise you guys weren't watching the Warriors when Steph was 22. Youre trying to tell me an above average, poor defending, inefficient point guard is better at 22 than arguably the most skilled and talented offensive player to ever play the game of basketball when he was 22? Lmao. That’s circus comedy.
You weren't watching Steph at 22. You weren't even watching him at 24. That much is clear. You're a bandwagon jonnie come lately fan. Like I said, i've seen more Steph Curry games live than you've seen period. He had to develop his NBA game over time. You're imaging Steph at 26.
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