I've watched and listened to a ton of content this week and the sloshing over the Ravens is something else. Everyone, and I mean everyone, thinks they are one of the greatest teams of all-time. When you have morons like Colin Cowherd and Jason Whitlock proclaiming them god's gift then you know it is well past time to sell high.
I understand they look incredible on a spreadsheet. Trust me. It's been repeated ad naseum this week. "Well if you looked at these teams on a spreadsheet the line should be Ravens -6!". I also understand because of how they look on a spreadsheet that folks who are stats and model heavy have bet the Ravens every which way possible. It takes substantial money to move the second most bet game of the year to 4.
But to me something is off. It's hard to refute stats and evidence on paper. But Baltimore being a Top 5 DVOA team of all-time? That...smells a bit funky. Are they really up there with the top DVOA teams like the 2007 Patriots, 1991 Redskins, and 85 Bears? Those teams were stuffed with Hall of Fame football players. I've always been a bit biased to talent over scheme. The Ravens have some excellent players for sure. But do they have multiple Hall of Famers that would put them up there as a Top 5 team of all-time? Do they have a single Hall of Fame in their prime? Or have their front ran and schemed their way over a mediocre league to force turnovers and run up big margins?
The league is down this year. There were 2-3 good teams all season. Roughing up the middle class (Detroit, Seattle, Miami) looks awesome in the metrics but to me doesn't mean as much this season as it would in years past. I think the Ravens are quite overinflated for this reason.
For me, they don't pass the eye test as one of the best teams ever. In fact, over the second half of the season I'd argue they haven't even played that well. Lost at home to Cleveland. Looked very clunky in a win over the Chargers that was 13-10 in the last two minutes. Needed a late TD to tie and then punt return in OT to beat the Rams. Looked clunky against a bad Jags team that was in a game that was 10-7 after 3 quarters and saw the Jags p!ss away boatloads of points. Beat SF by 14 but honestly the Niners were moving the ball very well before a bunch of fluky tipped interceptions completely changed that game. They did completely throttle Miami for sure tho. But they also looked terrible in the 1st half last week.
Some stats I like to look at back this up too. Over the second half of the year including the playoffs (and throwing out Week 18), if you exclude plays that involve turnovers and garbage time (where one team has less than a 10% win probability) the Ravens offense is 6th in EPA/play. Good but nothing like a historically good team. The Chiefs over that same timespan are actually rank 7th. You'd never know that if you read or listened to anything this week. More interesting is over the same timeframe the Ravens rush offense is 12th in EPA/play. KC? 6th. How about the same timeframe and parameters on defense? The Ravens defense is a shocking 18th in EPA/play allowed. KC is much better at 11th. Perhaps most surprising is over that same timeframe the Ravens rush defense is 5th WORST in EPA/play and 31st in rush success rate! KC over that span sits 16th and 14th. Interesting when you've been hearing all week how bad the KC run defense has been. It's actually Baltimore than has been far worse both rushing on offense and stopping the run on defense.
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To remove first post, remove entire topic.
I've watched and listened to a ton of content this week and the sloshing over the Ravens is something else. Everyone, and I mean everyone, thinks they are one of the greatest teams of all-time. When you have morons like Colin Cowherd and Jason Whitlock proclaiming them god's gift then you know it is well past time to sell high.
I understand they look incredible on a spreadsheet. Trust me. It's been repeated ad naseum this week. "Well if you looked at these teams on a spreadsheet the line should be Ravens -6!". I also understand because of how they look on a spreadsheet that folks who are stats and model heavy have bet the Ravens every which way possible. It takes substantial money to move the second most bet game of the year to 4.
But to me something is off. It's hard to refute stats and evidence on paper. But Baltimore being a Top 5 DVOA team of all-time? That...smells a bit funky. Are they really up there with the top DVOA teams like the 2007 Patriots, 1991 Redskins, and 85 Bears? Those teams were stuffed with Hall of Fame football players. I've always been a bit biased to talent over scheme. The Ravens have some excellent players for sure. But do they have multiple Hall of Famers that would put them up there as a Top 5 team of all-time? Do they have a single Hall of Fame in their prime? Or have their front ran and schemed their way over a mediocre league to force turnovers and run up big margins?
The league is down this year. There were 2-3 good teams all season. Roughing up the middle class (Detroit, Seattle, Miami) looks awesome in the metrics but to me doesn't mean as much this season as it would in years past. I think the Ravens are quite overinflated for this reason.
For me, they don't pass the eye test as one of the best teams ever. In fact, over the second half of the season I'd argue they haven't even played that well. Lost at home to Cleveland. Looked very clunky in a win over the Chargers that was 13-10 in the last two minutes. Needed a late TD to tie and then punt return in OT to beat the Rams. Looked clunky against a bad Jags team that was in a game that was 10-7 after 3 quarters and saw the Jags p!ss away boatloads of points. Beat SF by 14 but honestly the Niners were moving the ball very well before a bunch of fluky tipped interceptions completely changed that game. They did completely throttle Miami for sure tho. But they also looked terrible in the 1st half last week.
Some stats I like to look at back this up too. Over the second half of the year including the playoffs (and throwing out Week 18), if you exclude plays that involve turnovers and garbage time (where one team has less than a 10% win probability) the Ravens offense is 6th in EPA/play. Good but nothing like a historically good team. The Chiefs over that same timespan are actually rank 7th. You'd never know that if you read or listened to anything this week. More interesting is over the same timeframe the Ravens rush offense is 12th in EPA/play. KC? 6th. How about the same timeframe and parameters on defense? The Ravens defense is a shocking 18th in EPA/play allowed. KC is much better at 11th. Perhaps most surprising is over that same timeframe the Ravens rush defense is 5th WORST in EPA/play and 31st in rush success rate! KC over that span sits 16th and 14th. Interesting when you've been hearing all week how bad the KC run defense has been. It's actually Baltimore than has been far worse both rushing on offense and stopping the run on defense.
Look, has KC looked bad at times this season? Unquestionably. Could you nit pick them? Yessir. Does Thuney being out hurt? BIG time. If you made it this far you're probably thinking, Jesus andarmac99 why are you picking on Baltimore so much? Because the Chiefs have Pat. They have the GOAT. His record now games with a line of -3 or less sits at 22-8 ATS. 8-1-1 as an underdog. His EPA is significantly HIGHER when his win probability is under 50%. He's a true unicorn. Everyone is scared sh!tless of this guy. Everyone at the Bills game last week said the crowd totally puckered up. The same will happen in Baltimore. You could already sense the tensions and pressure when they were tied with the freaking Texans at halftime last week. Mahomes' offense as a whole might be down, but he also has by far the best defense he has ever had. It is going to take a supreme game to beat him by more than 4 points. You have to be an all-time team to be -4 over Mahomes. You're paying a price to back Baltimore like they are that all-time team. Truth be told, I don't think they are.
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Look, has KC looked bad at times this season? Unquestionably. Could you nit pick them? Yessir. Does Thuney being out hurt? BIG time. If you made it this far you're probably thinking, Jesus andarmac99 why are you picking on Baltimore so much? Because the Chiefs have Pat. They have the GOAT. His record now games with a line of -3 or less sits at 22-8 ATS. 8-1-1 as an underdog. His EPA is significantly HIGHER when his win probability is under 50%. He's a true unicorn. Everyone is scared sh!tless of this guy. Everyone at the Bills game last week said the crowd totally puckered up. The same will happen in Baltimore. You could already sense the tensions and pressure when they were tied with the freaking Texans at halftime last week. Mahomes' offense as a whole might be down, but he also has by far the best defense he has ever had. It is going to take a supreme game to beat him by more than 4 points. You have to be an all-time team to be -4 over Mahomes. You're paying a price to back Baltimore like they are that all-time team. Truth be told, I don't think they are.
One of the best write-ups I've ever read on Covers! Solid research. Most impressive. Chiefs get it together for playoffs. Mahomes' 131.6 passer rating, and Chief's 6.1 YPR last week are both season highs. Mahomes' 9.3 YPPA was the highest against the Bills since 9/27/20. Good luck, Sir!
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@andarmac99
One of the best write-ups I've ever read on Covers! Solid research. Most impressive. Chiefs get it together for playoffs. Mahomes' 131.6 passer rating, and Chief's 6.1 YPR last week are both season highs. Mahomes' 9.3 YPPA was the highest against the Bills since 9/27/20. Good luck, Sir!
Awesome writeup...reminds me of ex dad in law's 2 memorable important quips..
1) Trust No One and 2) Don't Believe Half of what you Hear....Way over the Top Love for Ravens this week
Really, vs the Most $$$ QB of our time...w Lamar and his 2-3 playoff record
Yes, something is up this week..add in Referee Shaun Smith and that 40% home team winning rate..NFL KNOWS what they are doing..can see all those Roughing the Passer flags coming now..
Never Bet against Mahomey
Great job OP
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@andarmac99
Awesome writeup...reminds me of ex dad in law's 2 memorable important quips..
1) Trust No One and 2) Don't Believe Half of what you Hear....Way over the Top Love for Ravens this week
Really, vs the Most $$$ QB of our time...w Lamar and his 2-3 playoff record
Yes, something is up this week..add in Referee Shaun Smith and that 40% home team winning rate..NFL KNOWS what they are doing..can see all those Roughing the Passer flags coming now..
long time forum follower, rarely post, but had to with a post so well said. Great write up Mr. MVP!, havnt seen ya around here for a minute. Like I posted in another forum just now.... I am a Vegas local and in the daily scene here locally sports betting wise. Sharps I know are not buying the Ravens being crowned so elite. I agree.... mainly cause the leagues best QB Mahomes will get it done, and I also like the T. Swift, Kelce, the Refs, and NFL Chiefs love conspiracy theories out there too! Lost so much money for years going against Brady and the Pats. Learned my lesson, Mahomes is him, fuck the stats, automatic dont bet against!
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long time forum follower, rarely post, but had to with a post so well said. Great write up Mr. MVP!, havnt seen ya around here for a minute. Like I posted in another forum just now.... I am a Vegas local and in the daily scene here locally sports betting wise. Sharps I know are not buying the Ravens being crowned so elite. I agree.... mainly cause the leagues best QB Mahomes will get it done, and I also like the T. Swift, Kelce, the Refs, and NFL Chiefs love conspiracy theories out there too! Lost so much money for years going against Brady and the Pats. Learned my lesson, Mahomes is him, fuck the stats, automatic dont bet against!
No we are not. Well, as a team they are, but Lamar will find a way to choke. Don’t get me wrong tho. I think he is great, but we have… EXPERIENCED VS INEXPERIENCED
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@andarmac99
No we are not. Well, as a team they are, but Lamar will find a way to choke. Don’t get me wrong tho. I think he is great, but we have… EXPERIENCED VS INEXPERIENCED
Enjoyed your writeup The power of the media and its affect on the betting public is a timely topic as the mainstream sports' media is painting with a broad-brush and making it seem as if the Ravens are unbeatable. Totally agree
All of the intangibles with the rain, slick football, the media hoopla over goofy and his aging rock star are kicking into high gear (Goodell thinks that TS is a big deal for the NFL and a moneymaker). Behind the scenes, the Comish is very active, I just wonder how active?
There was a famous handicapper in years gone by, that wrote a book about sports' betting and he touched on this very topic (sports and the media) and dedicated a chapter to it in his book. He had a lot of success in fading teams that were the flavor of the week in the media's eyes.
The one thing holding me back from hedging (I'm on the Ravens) with a KC wager is that the line has moved from 3.5 to 4 and now the moneyline Superbowl future on KC is up to +450 at my book. The books are not exactly taking a stand on KC and are peeing down their leg. (I don't buy into the books balancing the action, sometimes it just doesn't apply)
Apparently Mark Andrews and even Marlon Humphrey might play which helps the Ravens' cause, but as you stated, they don't have St. Patrick. BOL
If she wins in November, may God help us all. The fate of the nation hangs in the balance.
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@andarmac99
Enjoyed your writeup The power of the media and its affect on the betting public is a timely topic as the mainstream sports' media is painting with a broad-brush and making it seem as if the Ravens are unbeatable. Totally agree
All of the intangibles with the rain, slick football, the media hoopla over goofy and his aging rock star are kicking into high gear (Goodell thinks that TS is a big deal for the NFL and a moneymaker). Behind the scenes, the Comish is very active, I just wonder how active?
There was a famous handicapper in years gone by, that wrote a book about sports' betting and he touched on this very topic (sports and the media) and dedicated a chapter to it in his book. He had a lot of success in fading teams that were the flavor of the week in the media's eyes.
The one thing holding me back from hedging (I'm on the Ravens) with a KC wager is that the line has moved from 3.5 to 4 and now the moneyline Superbowl future on KC is up to +450 at my book. The books are not exactly taking a stand on KC and are peeing down their leg. (I don't buy into the books balancing the action, sometimes it just doesn't apply)
Apparently Mark Andrews and even Marlon Humphrey might play which helps the Ravens' cause, but as you stated, they don't have St. Patrick. BOL
Look, has KC looked bad at times this season? Unquestionably. Could you nit pick them? Yessir. Does Thuney being out hurt? BIG time. If you made it this far you're probably thinking, Jesus andarmac99 why are you picking on Baltimore so much? Because the Chiefs have Pat. They have the GOAT. His record now games with a line of -3 or less sits at 22-8 ATS. 8-1-1 as an underdog. His EPA is significantly HIGHER when his win probability is under 50%. He's a true unicorn. Everyone is scared sh!tless of this guy. Everyone at the Bills game last week said the crowd totally puckered up. The same will happen in Baltimore. You could already sense the tensions and pressure when they were tied with the freaking Texans at halftime last week. Mahomes' offense as a whole might be down, but he also has by far the best defense he has ever had. It is going to take a supreme game to beat him by more than 4 points. You have to be an all-time team to be -4 over Mahomes. You're paying a price to back Baltimore like they are that all-time team. Truth be told, I don't think they are.
great ink.....
Thuney's loss will be huge.....
Ravens will collapse them inside and force Homey outside...
Pacheco might not play...
The midget backup wont run on them....
Buckle Up.....
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Quote Originally Posted by andarmac99:
Look, has KC looked bad at times this season? Unquestionably. Could you nit pick them? Yessir. Does Thuney being out hurt? BIG time. If you made it this far you're probably thinking, Jesus andarmac99 why are you picking on Baltimore so much? Because the Chiefs have Pat. They have the GOAT. His record now games with a line of -3 or less sits at 22-8 ATS. 8-1-1 as an underdog. His EPA is significantly HIGHER when his win probability is under 50%. He's a true unicorn. Everyone is scared sh!tless of this guy. Everyone at the Bills game last week said the crowd totally puckered up. The same will happen in Baltimore. You could already sense the tensions and pressure when they were tied with the freaking Texans at halftime last week. Mahomes' offense as a whole might be down, but he also has by far the best defense he has ever had. It is going to take a supreme game to beat him by more than 4 points. You have to be an all-time team to be -4 over Mahomes. You're paying a price to back Baltimore like they are that all-time team. Truth be told, I don't think they are.
great ink.....
Thuney's loss will be huge.....
Ravens will collapse them inside and force Homey outside...
Baltimore is better than KC this year, that's a fact. Will it turn into a 3.5 pt win of more tomorrow? I personally think it's going to be a field goal game.
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Baltimore is better than KC this year, that's a fact. Will it turn into a 3.5 pt win of more tomorrow? I personally think it's going to be a field goal game.
Agreed. Wonder if ESPNBet is influencing their employees egregious hyping of the Ravens ad nauseum? Exactly as you are referencing. Fabulous writeup. Thx
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Agreed. Wonder if ESPNBet is influencing their employees egregious hyping of the Ravens ad nauseum? Exactly as you are referencing. Fabulous writeup. Thx
They don't pass the eye test? I mean they beat 6 of the playoff bracket teams some of them handily. The stats don't lie your mind who you where betting on was made up before you even created this post . KC was blessed playing 2 bad defenses so far Sunday will be much different for him . Mahomes is great don't get me wrong but he doesn't have a great supporting cast around him offensively to keep up . Ravens by double digits book it .
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They don't pass the eye test? I mean they beat 6 of the playoff bracket teams some of them handily. The stats don't lie your mind who you where betting on was made up before you even created this post . KC was blessed playing 2 bad defenses so far Sunday will be much different for him . Mahomes is great don't get me wrong but he doesn't have a great supporting cast around him offensively to keep up . Ravens by double digits book it .
I agree with your assessment overall; I think Baltimore should win this in a close battle but I cannot discount Mahomes, Kelce and the Defense plus I think Reid has a Coaching edge here. I have to take KC +4 until Lamar proves me wrong. I think Home field is negligible here. Show me Ravens.
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@andarmac99
I agree with your assessment overall; I think Baltimore should win this in a close battle but I cannot discount Mahomes, Kelce and the Defense plus I think Reid has a Coaching edge here. I have to take KC +4 until Lamar proves me wrong. I think Home field is negligible here. Show me Ravens.
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