Coach of year?

What are your thoughts on KOC for coach of the year?

@Hiok1553

Sean Payton- Denver. - Yes, I am aware that all of Denver's wins were against a weak strength of schedule, but he has this team on the cusp of getting to the playoffs for the first time in almost a decade with a mostly no name roster and a rookie QB under center and the team is in cap hell this year. Their defense is for the most part solid along with their special teams. He is coaching an offense that lacks a running game, no big name TE, and a group of non-speedy WR's that lack the ability to get separation yet they are at 9-5 and a blocked chip shot field goal away in Kansas City from being 10-4. Their two home losses to the Chargers and Steelers were by 7 points each. Their only true blemish was getting blown out in Baltimore. A truly masterful coaching job by Sean Payton this year.

Andy Reid for being 13-1 with stats from hell

O'Connell is the current fav at+110 , then campbell +250, and payton+350. DK odds. 

If the Steelers close out well and win the division, I think a great case can be made for Tomlin.

They never want to give him any credit for what he does year in and year out.  He does it with knuckleheads he has to keep under control that you see go to another team and just blow another team up.  He does it with lack of talent at key positions; especially at QB position.  He did it with an aging Big Ben.  Then did it late in the year when Big Ben went down.  He is doing it with an aging Wilson and started with an overwhelmed Fields.

Certainly all of the other candidates can have a case made for them.  It would just be nice to see Tomlin get credit finally for a great career and, so far, great season.

They always say he is doing it with 'smoke and mirrors'.  It cannot be 'smoke and mirrors' every single year.

@Raiders22

So yours is the mainstream sports' media view of Tomlin in that he can do no wrong. Did he make any coaching errors in the recent game with the Eagles? Did you like his game plan of Najee Harris stuffed at the line on first and second down and then a check down pass on 3rd and punt? What about the holding call that he declined  which would have given the Eagles a 1st and 30? How about punting on 4th down with 10 minutes left, on the Eagles side of the 50 down by 2 TDs in the 4th quarter??? Did you like that decision? Steelers never touched the ball again on offense. 

Tomlin has never had a non losing season, fine but to a football town like Pittsburgh, that fact is meaningless. Championships are what Steeler Nation lives for not participation trophies. 

If I judge Tomlin on his merits then I am KKK. I get it but that conclusion is not accurate. Tomlin had great skill position players and arguably the best with Bell, Brown, and Ben (circa 2013 onward until 2018) and yet hasn't sniffed a Superbowl in 14 years. Steelers did go to the 2016 AFC conference championship game versus the Patriots and they were blown out. 

Steelers haven't won a playoff game since the end of the 2016 season. In their last 5 playoff games they have been blown out each time. Yeah, he was head coach for the 2008 season and they did win the Superbowl that year. They went to another Superbowl in 2010. 
So Coach Tomlin carried Ben thru much of his career?  I guess we don't live on the same planet. I prefer an X's and O's head coach like Lombardi, Noll, Shula, and Walsh to motivational cheerleaders like Tomlin. Those other guys were rarely out-coached as they had a viable plan. 

I like the Chuck Noll quote, 'If I have to motivate a player, I will cut him.'

Giving upbeat motivational speeches and colorful word salad interviews doesn't equate to brilliance IMO. Seems like for you and Rich Eisen and the rest of mainstream sports' media it does. For me results speak louder than words and if you think that his players don't see behind his shtick then perhaps you need another toke off the bong pipe? 

As a human being, I think Tomlin for the most part is top notch but that is not what we are analyzing here. Also, not all of his players have the highest regard for him and were not happy campers playing for him. I could go on and on but no doubt my comments have already short circuited enough minds. 

In conclusion, Mike Tomlin will NEVER lead the Steelers to another Superbowl in his career. Tomlin WILL have the job as long as he wants it or as long as Art the lesser Rooney is in charge. 

@Buffalobob89074

 Nice writeup and good points.  But the last time we discussed this mostly still apply.

https://www.covers.com/forum/nfl-betting-21/the-winter-of-mike-tomlin39s-discontent-103800798

@Buffalobob89074

 So yours is the mainstream sports' media view of Tomlin in that he can do no wrong.

There are articles online nationally about removing him and that the game has passed him by, etc. 

This has only increased.  
You can do a quick search and find them. 
It is also locally increasing from what I see.  

 In fact, at this point, you would be harder pressed to find media calling for him to stay. 

I like Sean Payton

I had Broncos Over 5’ wins and cashed that ticket a month ago

@Buffalobob89074

 Did he make any coaching errors in the recent game with the Eagles? Did you like his game plan of Najee Harris stuffed at the line on first and second down and then a check down pass on 3rd and punt? What about the holding call that he declined  which would have given the Eagles a 1st and 30? How about punting on 4th down with 10 minutes left, on the Eagles side of the 50 down by 2 TDs in the 4th quarter??? Did you like that decision? Steelers never touched the ball again on offense. 

I do not judge it like that.  A season cannot be encapsulated in one game and decisions in one game that may or may not have worked out.

The complied results of those inter-game decisions will inevitably come out in the wash in the wins and losses.

I wanted the game twice so far this week.  I can make a case for supporting those decisions still.  At some point you have to trust your defense, instincts, and coaches that are advising you.  Tomlin is not known for automatically overriding his guys, etc.

BUT -- when the decisions look bad in retrospect -- I get why folks say what they say.

@Buffalobob89074

 Tomlin has never had a non losing season, fine but to a football town like Pittsburgh, that fact is meaningless. Championships are what Steeler Nation lives for not participation trophies. 

@Buffalobob89074

 So Coach Tomlin carried Ben thru much of his career?  I guess we don't live on the same planet. I prefer an X's and O's head coach like Lombardi, Noll, Shula, and Walsh to motivational cheerleaders like Tomlin. Those other guys were rarely out-coached as they had a viable plan. 

I never said, nor implied, that 'he carried Big Ben'.  I simply pointed out that he kept winning even while Ben deteriorated.  Then he closed out the year after Ben got hurt and missed the rest of the season by nearly making the playoffs with subpar QBs.

@Buffalobob89074

2nd best record in last 20 years.

3rd best record in the last 10 years.

10th best record in the last 5 years.

MANY teams would LOVE to have that success.  Some fans just assume ‘success’ means winning a SB.  Look at how few teams have actually done that.  

Only 12 teams have been to the SB in the last 10 years.  ALL of them had a good or great QB — or one where their QB had an outstanding year.  Of course, this includes TB who brought Brady in to win and LAR who brought Stafford in and DEN with Manning.  

If you were to take TB and LAR and DEN out of it because of that you would be left with just 4 teams and it was almost just 3 teams.

It is VERY hard to win in the NFL and to make the playoffs and even HARDER to get to the SB and even HARDER to win it.  

Tomlin has the 3rd best record currently with at least 100 games.  Behind Belichick and Reid.  Ahead of Payton, McCarthy, McDermott, Harbaugh, McVay, Carroll, Shanahan, Vrabel, Pederson, and Rivera.

Take away Brady and Belichick does not look good.  Reid, of course, has Mahomes.  Payton does not look good without Brees.  Tomlin did as well as could be expected the last 2-3 years with a depleted Big Ben and even did well the year he went down.  

In the ever more QB-driven league if a coach can be this ‘mediocre’, I would hate to see how the fans in PIT would feel if they had the Chargers or Dolphins or Falcons or Raiders records.

Tomlin took over a team that Cowher had trending down.  Went 15-1, 11-5, and 8-8.  Then left town because he knew the team was headed downhill.

Tomlin took over the team and went 10-6 the next year and then went 12-4 the next year and won the SB.

Folks like to say it was the same team Cowher had built.  Yet, Cowher had that team headed downhill fast and Tomlin turned it around the next year and won a SB the second year.  

He has never had a losing record in any year since.

He has also done this while keeping a lot of knuckleheads in line.

@Buffalobob89074

Tomlin has a winning record without Roethlesberger (36-30-1). Conversely, Bill Belichick is 82-98 without Brady and Noll had a losing record without Bradshaw. Everyone loves to blame MT for recent playoff losses but Big Ben could not compete against his contemporaries. He is only 7-21 lifetime against Brady, Brees, Manning, Rogers and Mahomes (1-7 in playoffs).

@Buffalobob89074

 In conclusion, Mike Tomlin will NEVER lead the Steelers to another Superbowl in his career.

This is a very easy thing to say when the above still applies.  VERY, VERY few teams and coaches EVER make it.  Most -- especially nowadays, NEED elite QB play more than years past.

Mahomes is simply the only guy that fits this now that Brady is gone and Rodgers is older and has nothing to work with.

BUT --IF he does this year, shouldn't your opinion change a little bit?

@Buffalobob89074

 I do not want to hijack the thread into a anti/pro-Tomlin thread, more than I already did.

I enjoy your insights and discussion. 

I just think Tomlin deserves more credit than he has been given.  I would even give him extra credit for keeping Brown, Big Ben, and Bell under control the way he did.

ANY COACH that can have a WINNING record in the NFL without a great, or at least a good, QB is a VERY GOOD coach.

You can nitpick his in-game decisions and demeanor all you like.  But a lot of coaches make very poor in-game decisions.  No one coaches a perfect game.  I doubt he has made more than most coaches have.

The issue is when your ‘expectations’ are unrealistic or too high then every decision is over-analyzed.  Most teams do not have this scrutiny on every single decision to call a timeout or not to go for it on 4th and 1 or not to challenge a call.

That can be a good thing because the franchise holds everyone, including Tomlin, to a higher standard. 

But they need to realistic.  Even Bill Walsh would have a hard time getting much better out of their QB and, therefore, their offense.

THEY NEED A FRANCHISE QB.  Maybe they have him and he is developing.  Time will tell.

I do not think you fire a successful coach because he is winning despite having a mediocre QB.

Sean McKay

Rams started out 1-4  now 8 -6 leading division 

If they go on a run and surprise people its possible .

Its down to 16 -1 on Mc Vay  I have a ticket on this at 290 -1.

So it's more I'm hoping this happens but there is a path .

KOC and it isn't close. He has taken a team that has a shot at the number 1 seed. They were picked to finish dead last in their division and have beaten some good teams along the way. Sam Darnold is going to get paid because of him. I can go on and on about in game coaching, motivation, taking misfit toys and making them legit. 

Correction I have 29 -1 on McVay not 290 -1 I think everyone would have bet 290 -1 lol 

@Silverstones

Nice!  I was just about to ask how early you got the 290-1.  

But still 29-1 is good to have 

@Buffalobob89074

 Without Brady in New England Belichick's record is 47-57. Belichick's entire record overall is 333-178. Tomlin for many years had a soon to be HOF franchise QB so your attempt to whitewash that is Bravo Sierra. Tomlin also had talent on his defenses too 

Not whitewashing it.  Just stating it as fact.  Tomlin deserves credit for the defenses AND doing well with a fading Big Ben.

My point is still the same -- he has a winning record even without a HoF QB.  Knoll and Belichick do not. 

Those knuckleheads that you alluded too became that way in Pittsburgh under Tomlin because he wants to be the super talented players' buddy instead of head coach. You see it now with Pickens who is only getting worse and costing the team with his emotional outbursts. Pittsburgh is the breeding grounds for divas and drama queens and ironically enough, all of them were brothers who were disrespecting him. I can make a list of their names if you want???

I am NOT disagreeing with you really.  Maybe they became that way there; or maybe they were that way before they got there.

My point was solely that he does a good job of keeping them under control.  The Big Ben fiasco, Brown and Bell's antics --look what they did when they were not there, etc.

That is part of what makes him a good coach -- that other coaches could not do, apparently.

Your many posts, I could spend days disputing much of what you wrote. At least you are thinking and best wishes for the holidays. 

Yessir, you can -- the opinions parts.  But not the facts and numbers parts that back up the opinions.

Happy Holidays to you as well.

O’Connell and it’s not even close.  12-2 with a castaway QB who looked like dogshit every opportunity he’s got.  Nobody is touching him for coach of the year this season.