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    All Forums | NFL Betting Forum

    MRxKRAZZ NFL week #1

    «First Previous 345 ... 567 Next Last»
    porcelainfist
    simple3
    Indigo999
    CallMeBruce
    suuma
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    porcelainfist
    porcelainfist
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    Posted: Jul. 20, 2015 - 5:57 PM ET #51

    So... you're saying the fact that the Giants LOST in a close game to the Jaguars means they are going to WIN against the Cowboys this year, but I'm the one talking info with no correlation? 
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    So... you're saying the fact that the Giants LOST in a close game to the Jaguars means they are going to WIN against the Cowboys this year, but I'm the one talking info with no correlation? 
     
    porcelainfist
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    Posted: Jul. 20, 2015 - 6:04 PM ET #52

    One last word... now that I've seen your "Streak Survivor" score of 4-7 on the NFL I shouldn't have even responded to you. For reference, when I was first starting with my Grandpa at age 17 with very little real football knowledge I was just a tad under 50/50. We had fun, but man we didn't know who the starting safety was. 

    Now I'm a consistent winner, if I went 4-7 in even one weekend I would have a complete fit. Just fair warning, your supposed system is weak, if you play it, you will lose. Good day.
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    One last word... now that I've seen your "Streak Survivor" score of 4-7 on the NFL I shouldn't have even responded to you. For reference, when I was first starting with my Grandpa at age 17 with very little real football knowledge I was just a tad under 50/50. We had fun, but man we didn't know who the starting safety was. 

    Now I'm a consistent winner, if I went 4-7 in even one weekend I would have a complete fit. Just fair warning, your supposed system is weak, if you play it, you will lose. Good day.
     
    simple3
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    Posted: Jul. 20, 2015 - 7:09 PM ET #53

    God reading theclaw's posts are giving me cancer I think lol. Completely illogical but worse yet you keep reiterating your point about BOAT LOADS of sites validating your arguments.

    To me that suggests you don't really know what you're talking about, you just formed an opinion based on some website(s) that you stumbled across and decided to roll with it.

    So why don't you share with the real fundamentals behind your illogical argument, what have these boat loads of sites proved? Why don't you spell it out to us in a well constructed argument, with links to the conclusive numbers on these sites? 

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    God reading theclaw's posts are giving me cancer I think lol. Completely illogical but worse yet you keep reiterating your point about BOAT LOADS of sites validating your arguments.

    To me that suggests you don't really know what you're talking about, you just formed an opinion based on some website(s) that you stumbled across and decided to roll with it.

    So why don't you share with the real fundamentals behind your illogical argument, what have these boat loads of sites proved? Why don't you spell it out to us in a well constructed argument, with links to the conclusive numbers on these sites? 

     
    simple3
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    Posted: Jul. 20, 2015 - 7:33 PM ET #54

    ^ In all fairness I may have been a bit harsh in that post, bit tired and cranky. Don't want to start a shitestorm, if you can further elaborate that would be good.

    I just think it's illogical to say they Ravens covered in the playoffs because they weren't good in close games and vice versa for the other teams.

    I somewhat agree with your point but I believe it's with respect to elite teams vs dreadful teams. The hallmark of a great team is blowing out a crap team, not getting caught up in a "banana skin" match. 

    That does not mean that elite teams winning close games against other good opposition is a negative attribute however.
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    ^ In all fairness I may have been a bit harsh in that post, bit tired and cranky. Don't want to start a shitestorm, if you can further elaborate that would be good.

    I just think it's illogical to say they Ravens covered in the playoffs because they weren't good in close games and vice versa for the other teams.

    I somewhat agree with your point but I believe it's with respect to elite teams vs dreadful teams. The hallmark of a great team is blowing out a crap team, not getting caught up in a "banana skin" match. 

    That does not mean that elite teams winning close games against other good opposition is a negative attribute however.
     
    Indigo999
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    Posted: Jul. 20, 2015 - 7:53 PM ET #55

    Division away dogs playing with quadruple revenge are 112-109 against the spread overall and 6-5 in week 1.  They are 1-10 straight up in week one losing by an average of 10.55 points/game.  In my database they 5-6 irregardless of week on Sunday night football playing with a past history of four straight losses in the present match-up.

    Use the information if you feel it's relevant guys,....there are different ways of approaching a decision.  A lot of things can happen before the start of the season.  If a guy has a different opinion, it doesn't make him a bad or crazy person......I get nervous when everyone has the same opinion as mine, I'd rather be in the minority, it usually works out better in betting.  
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    Division away dogs playing with quadruple revenge are 112-109 against the spread overall and 6-5 in week 1.  They are 1-10 straight up in week one losing by an average of 10.55 points/game.  In my database they 5-6 irregardless of week on Sunday night football playing with a past history of four straight losses in the present match-up.

    Use the information if you feel it's relevant guys,....there are different ways of approaching a decision.  A lot of things can happen before the start of the season.  If a guy has a different opinion, it doesn't make him a bad or crazy person......I get nervous when everyone has the same opinion as mine, I'd rather be in the minority, it usually works out better in betting.  
     
    Indigo999
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    Posted: Jul. 20, 2015 - 8:16 PM ET #56

    Bill Barnhill at Grantland writes that turnover margin and close game winning  percentage tends to revert to the mean the next season.  In other words, if a team has an abnormally high turnover rate (Turnover produced by special teams and defense minus turnover made by its offense) one year, that the next year that team doesn't have the same kind of success.  Same with games for the present season when last season there was success in games with a point differential of 7 or less.  

    He has no hardcore data to back up his assertions and I don't know of a way to program my database to find out if what he says is true for the following season and specifically, game 1.

    Teams that won greater than 8 games the season prior at 150-178 in game one, 107-107 as favorites and 41-69 as dogs.  The Steelers, Ravens, Lions, Bills and Chiefs fall into that category of a team winning > 8 games the season previous and now being week 1 underdogs.

    Teams that won less than 8 games the previous season are 171-143, week 1 at 54.5%.  They have been 120-86 as dogs (58.3%) and 48-54 as favorites.  Those teams that won less than 8 games the prior season that are dogs week 1 are:  Bears, Redskins, Jags, Rams, Raiders, Falcons, Browns, Saints, Titans, Vikings, Giants.
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    Bill Barnhill at Grantland writes that turnover margin and close game winning  percentage tends to revert to the mean the next season.  In other words, if a team has an abnormally high turnover rate (Turnover produced by special teams and defense minus turnover made by its offense) one year, that the next year that team doesn't have the same kind of success.  Same with games for the present season when last season there was success in games with a point differential of 7 or less.  

    He has no hardcore data to back up his assertions and I don't know of a way to program my database to find out if what he says is true for the following season and specifically, game 1.

    Teams that won greater than 8 games the season prior at 150-178 in game one, 107-107 as favorites and 41-69 as dogs.  The Steelers, Ravens, Lions, Bills and Chiefs fall into that category of a team winning > 8 games the season previous and now being week 1 underdogs.

    Teams that won less than 8 games the previous season are 171-143, week 1 at 54.5%.  They have been 120-86 as dogs (58.3%) and 48-54 as favorites.  Those teams that won less than 8 games the prior season that are dogs week 1 are:  Bears, Redskins, Jags, Rams, Raiders, Falcons, Browns, Saints, Titans, Vikings, Giants.
     
    CallMeBruce
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    Posted: Jul. 29, 2015 - 12:22 AM ET #57

    I don't think you should use forest stats and apply them to trees.  Tend to regress does not mean they will and it especially doesn't mean they will in week 1.
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    I don't think you should use forest stats and apply them to trees.  Tend to regress does not mean they will and it especially doesn't mean they will in week 1.
     
    CallMeBruce
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    Posted: Jul. 29, 2015 - 12:29 AM ET #58

    Quote Originally Posted by theclaw:

    I agree with your NY Giants lean. 

    Cowboys according to expected wins which is based on point margin, won 1.4 games more than they should of last season, indicating they are not as good as their record may have told one.

    That ranked 29th in a 32 team league.

    Giants on the other hand won 1.5 games fewer than their expected wins said they should of won, indicating the Giants were better than their record may have said they were. 

    That ranks 2cd in a 32 team league.

    History tells us that once teams get to the + or - 1.5 they are strong canidates to have regression the following year.

    Cowboys would also fit another regression fade in week 1 off yet another regression method.

    Regression does not like the Cowboys chances of improving and having a better record in 2015.

    They may have a better team but that does not always translate to a better season as the chances they recieve  the same luck is not likely based on history.
    Dal may regress, but doesn't mean they will in Week 1 or 2 or 4.  Maybe they will be like Ind a few years back when they had a negative MOV and won 10 (?) games, but next year they did it again. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by theclaw:

    I agree with your NY Giants lean. 

    Cowboys according to expected wins which is based on point margin, won 1.4 games more than they should of last season, indicating they are not as good as their record may have told one.

    That ranked 29th in a 32 team league.

    Giants on the other hand won 1.5 games fewer than their expected wins said they should of won, indicating the Giants were better than their record may have said they were. 

    That ranks 2cd in a 32 team league.

    History tells us that once teams get to the + or - 1.5 they are strong canidates to have regression the following year.

    Cowboys would also fit another regression fade in week 1 off yet another regression method.

    Regression does not like the Cowboys chances of improving and having a better record in 2015.

    They may have a better team but that does not always translate to a better season as the chances they recieve  the same luck is not likely based on history.
    Dal may regress, but doesn't mean they will in Week 1 or 2 or 4.  Maybe they will be like Ind a few years back when they had a negative MOV and won 10 (?) games, but next year they did it again. 
     
    suuma
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    Posted: Jul. 29, 2015 - 2:23 AM ET #59

    Quote Originally Posted by CallMeBruce:

    Dal may regress, but doesn't mean they will in Week 1 or 2 or 4.  Maybe they will be like Ind a few years back when they had a negative MOV and won 10 (?) games, but next year they did it again. 


    Indy was 9-1 in close games in 2012 and finished 11-5. The next season they finished 11-5 again.


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    Quote Originally Posted by CallMeBruce:

    Dal may regress, but doesn't mean they will in Week 1 or 2 or 4.  Maybe they will be like Ind a few years back when they had a negative MOV and won 10 (?) games, but next year they did it again. 


    Indy was 9-1 in close games in 2012 and finished 11-5. The next season they finished 11-5 again.


     
    Indigo999
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    Posted: Jul. 30, 2015 - 3:31 AM ET #60

    Statistics that are over or under a standard deviation from the mean one season TEND to regress to the mean the next year,...just as they do after 4 to 5 games are played in season until about game 15.  Fading stats like   1)  turnover margin advantage,   2)  3rd down conversion percentage advantage, 3)  pointspread success percentage  4)  Offensive yards per play advantage  5)  Defensive yards per play advantage will give you a +EV.

    One example of this is that teams that start the season 0-4 are typically +EV after game 4, especially after a loss, hitting close to 55% against the spread.  That means of course that 45% of the time they are losers.  If you can determine the exceptions to the rule consistently then you are gonna get all the chicks and have your own private island.  Most commonly, being able to win that way is the exception, rather than the rule.....but exceptions and the unpredictable are part of life....more power to you.
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    Statistics that are over or under a standard deviation from the mean one season TEND to regress to the mean the next year,...just as they do after 4 to 5 games are played in season until about game 15.  Fading stats like   1)  turnover margin advantage,   2)  3rd down conversion percentage advantage, 3)  pointspread success percentage  4)  Offensive yards per play advantage  5)  Defensive yards per play advantage will give you a +EV.

    One example of this is that teams that start the season 0-4 are typically +EV after game 4, especially after a loss, hitting close to 55% against the spread.  That means of course that 45% of the time they are losers.  If you can determine the exceptions to the rule consistently then you are gonna get all the chicks and have your own private island.  Most commonly, being able to win that way is the exception, rather than the rule.....but exceptions and the unpredictable are part of life....more power to you.
     
    suuma
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    Posted: Jul. 30, 2015 - 4:17 AM ET #61

    Quote Originally Posted by Indigo999:

    Statistics that are over or under a standard deviation from the mean one season TEND to regress to the mean the next year,...just as they do after 4 to 5 games are played in season until about game 15.  Fading stats like   1)  turnover margin advantage,   2)  3rd down conversion percentage advantage, 3)  pointspread success percentage  4)  Offensive yards per play advantage  5)  Defensive yards per play advantage will give you a +EV.

    One example of this is that teams that start the season 0-4 are typically +EV after game 4, especially after a loss, hitting close to 55% against the spread.  That means of course that 45% of the time they are losers.  If you can determine the exceptions to the rule consistently then you are gonna get all the chicks and have your own private island.  Most commonly, being able to win that way is the exception, rather than the rule.....but exceptions and the unpredictable are part of life....more power to you.


    Yeah, the problem is that the stats you have mentioned are indeed normally distributed but some characteristics are not stochastical. There is a reason why teams are good on 3rd down conversions. The New Orleans Saints have been extremely good on 3rd down conversion%, they ranked in the top-5 each year since 2006. That's always more than one standard deviation ahead of the mean. As long as Drew Brees is the QB, they won't regress to the mean in that category.

    Another example is turnover margin per game. Since Aaron Rodgers is the QB, the Packers always had a turnover margin of better than +0.5 over a season in which he started most of the games. That's always more than one standard deviation ahead of the mean. It's because Aaron Rodgers knows how to protect the ball. In 2013, when he was sidelined in 8 games, they regret to the mean at -0.1 turnover margin per game.

    If you are able to cap matchups you will know how to use stats the right way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indigo999:

    Statistics that are over or under a standard deviation from the mean one season TEND to regress to the mean the next year,...just as they do after 4 to 5 games are played in season until about game 15.  Fading stats like   1)  turnover margin advantage,   2)  3rd down conversion percentage advantage, 3)  pointspread success percentage  4)  Offensive yards per play advantage  5)  Defensive yards per play advantage will give you a +EV.

    One example of this is that teams that start the season 0-4 are typically +EV after game 4, especially after a loss, hitting close to 55% against the spread.  That means of course that 45% of the time they are losers.  If you can determine the exceptions to the rule consistently then you are gonna get all the chicks and have your own private island.  Most commonly, being able to win that way is the exception, rather than the rule.....but exceptions and the unpredictable are part of life....more power to you.


    Yeah, the problem is that the stats you have mentioned are indeed normally distributed but some characteristics are not stochastical. There is a reason why teams are good on 3rd down conversions. The New Orleans Saints have been extremely good on 3rd down conversion%, they ranked in the top-5 each year since 2006. That's always more than one standard deviation ahead of the mean. As long as Drew Brees is the QB, they won't regress to the mean in that category.

    Another example is turnover margin per game. Since Aaron Rodgers is the QB, the Packers always had a turnover margin of better than +0.5 over a season in which he started most of the games. That's always more than one standard deviation ahead of the mean. It's because Aaron Rodgers knows how to protect the ball. In 2013, when he was sidelined in 8 games, they regret to the mean at -0.1 turnover margin per game.

    If you are able to cap matchups you will know how to use stats the right way.
     
    CallMeBruce
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    Posted: Jul. 30, 2015 - 10:08 PM ET #62

    "stochastical" - really summa? please don't use long words... too much brain damage.
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    "stochastical" - really summa? please don't use long words... too much brain damage.
     
    Slick100
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    Posted: Jul. 30, 2015 - 10:59 PM ET #63

    Quote Originally Posted by MRxKrazz:


    LEAN~ DEN -4.5 ( I would probably take them up to -6 )

    I just think DEN's O can do more than what the BAL O can to do DEN's D, having a HC that was just in BAL will do nothing but help game planing on Justin Forrset, also that Wade Phillip D might be some to reckon with this year.




    NFL season 2014-2015 ( PLAYOFFS INCLUDED )

    YTD 112-86-3

    YTD +96.257


    NFL season 2013-2014 ( PLAYOFFS INCLUDED )

    YTD 136-96-5

    YTD +113.62units


    Thanks for sharing your leans MRxKrazz, and congrats on a successful 2014.

    I just wanted to get your take on Wade changing Den's D to a 3-4 from a 4-3.. whether you think it will effect them positively or negatively so early as Wk1?  

    Den's D is very talented, and performed well last year.  I'm a subscriber to the idea, "don't fix what's not broken".

    Another thing, I know you think Kubiack has an advantage to game plan toward Justin Forrset (for obv reasons), but doesn't Blt have a similar advantage game planning to Kubiak?
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRxKrazz:


    LEAN~ DEN -4.5 ( I would probably take them up to -6 )

    I just think DEN's O can do more than what the BAL O can to do DEN's D, having a HC that was just in BAL will do nothing but help game planing on Justin Forrset, also that Wade Phillip D might be some to reckon with this year.




    NFL season 2014-2015 ( PLAYOFFS INCLUDED )

    YTD 112-86-3

    YTD +96.257


    NFL season 2013-2014 ( PLAYOFFS INCLUDED )

    YTD 136-96-5

    YTD +113.62units


    Thanks for sharing your leans MRxKrazz, and congrats on a successful 2014.

    I just wanted to get your take on Wade changing Den's D to a 3-4 from a 4-3.. whether you think it will effect them positively or negatively so early as Wk1?  

    Den's D is very talented, and performed well last year.  I'm a subscriber to the idea, "don't fix what's not broken".

    Another thing, I know you think Kubiack has an advantage to game plan toward Justin Forrset (for obv reasons), but doesn't Blt have a similar advantage game planning to Kubiak?
     
    suuma
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    Posted: Jul. 31, 2015 - 8:33 AM ET #64

    Quote Originally Posted by CallMeBruce:

    "stochastical" - really summa? please don't use long words... too much brain damage.


    Would coincidental be a better word?
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    Quote Originally Posted by CallMeBruce:

    "stochastical" - really summa? please don't use long words... too much brain damage.


    Would coincidental be a better word?
     
    Indigo999
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    Posted: Aug. 1, 2015 - 1:15 AM ET #65

    A turnover per game advantage of one team to another is another good example of reversion to the mean, or to put it another way, turnover advantage has a reverse likelihood to continue.  In the past 26 years only a few teams do poorly in a turnover disadvantage scenario,...the Rams, Ravens, Browns, Eagles, Bengals, Redskins.

    After game four, teams with an average turnover DISADVANTAGE of at least one turnover/game  are  54.8% against the spread.  If they are off a loss this moves to 55.8%.

    An example of turnover margin is when:

    Team A has played 5 games and they've created 10 turnovers and they've lost 5 turnovers,...they have a net turnover ratio of +1/game.

    Team B has played 5 games and they have created 5 turnovers and have lost 15 themselves.  They have a net turnover ratio of -2/game.

    Team B is the percentage play at 55%.   If they were off a loss in their previous game, in the past 26 years they've covered close to 56% of the time in their next game, playing against team A.  Taking the team with the turnover margin advantage is similar to drawing to an inside straight against one other opponent,,....you can do it and you might win, but if you do it over the course of your poker career, your career will be short.  

    I am heavily looking at team B in this kind of situation, even better if the public likes team A, which most commonly they will.
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    A turnover per game advantage of one team to another is another good example of reversion to the mean, or to put it another way, turnover advantage has a reverse likelihood to continue.  In the past 26 years only a few teams do poorly in a turnover disadvantage scenario,...the Rams, Ravens, Browns, Eagles, Bengals, Redskins.

    After game four, teams with an average turnover DISADVANTAGE of at least one turnover/game  are  54.8% against the spread.  If they are off a loss this moves to 55.8%.

    An example of turnover margin is when:

    Team A has played 5 games and they've created 10 turnovers and they've lost 5 turnovers,...they have a net turnover ratio of +1/game.

    Team B has played 5 games and they have created 5 turnovers and have lost 15 themselves.  They have a net turnover ratio of -2/game.

    Team B is the percentage play at 55%.   If they were off a loss in their previous game, in the past 26 years they've covered close to 56% of the time in their next game, playing against team A.  Taking the team with the turnover margin advantage is similar to drawing to an inside straight against one other opponent,,....you can do it and you might win, but if you do it over the course of your poker career, your career will be short.  

    I am heavily looking at team B in this kind of situation, even better if the public likes team A, which most commonly they will.
     
    suuma
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    Posted: Aug. 1, 2015 - 5:25 AM ET #66

    Quote Originally Posted by Indigo999:

    A turnover per game advantage of one team to another is another good example of reversion to the mean, or to put it another way, turnover advantage has a reverse likelihood to continue.  In the past 26 years only a few teams do poorly in a turnover disadvantage scenario,...the Rams, Ravens, Browns, Eagles, Bengals, Redskins.

    After game four, teams with an average turnover DISADVANTAGE of at least one turnover/game  are  54.8% against the spread.  If they are off a loss this moves to 55.8%.

    An example of turnover margin is when:

    Team A has played 5 games and they've created 10 turnovers and they've lost 5 turnovers,...they have a net turnover ratio of +1/game.

    Team B has played 5 games and they have created 5 turnovers and have lost 15 themselves.  They have a net turnover ratio of -2/game.

    Team B is the percentage play at 55%.   If they were off a loss in their previous game, in the past 26 years they've covered close to 56% of the time in their next game, playing against team A.  Taking the team with the turnover margin advantage is similar to drawing to an inside straight against one other opponent,,....you can do it and you might win, but if you do it over the course of your poker career, your career will be short.  

    I am heavily looking at team B in this kind of situation, even better if the public likes team A, which most commonly they will.


    Problem is, after week four/five you look at a small amount of games that fit a 55% system. I don't know how many games have been there per season, but if it's 20, you are trying to come out 11-9 of those games.

    Why not investing the time in capping matchups, getting into stats that mean something in every game, watching tape etc. to try to get to 60% over the course of maybe 100-120 games per season? Don't know whether you already do this or not.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Indigo999:

    A turnover per game advantage of one team to another is another good example of reversion to the mean, or to put it another way, turnover advantage has a reverse likelihood to continue.  In the past 26 years only a few teams do poorly in a turnover disadvantage scenario,...the Rams, Ravens, Browns, Eagles, Bengals, Redskins.

    After game four, teams with an average turnover DISADVANTAGE of at least one turnover/game  are  54.8% against the spread.  If they are off a loss this moves to 55.8%.

    An example of turnover margin is when:

    Team A has played 5 games and they've created 10 turnovers and they've lost 5 turnovers,...they have a net turnover ratio of +1/game.

    Team B has played 5 games and they have created 5 turnovers and have lost 15 themselves.  They have a net turnover ratio of -2/game.

    Team B is the percentage play at 55%.   If they were off a loss in their previous game, in the past 26 years they've covered close to 56% of the time in their next game, playing against team A.  Taking the team with the turnover margin advantage is similar to drawing to an inside straight against one other opponent,,....you can do it and you might win, but if you do it over the course of your poker career, your career will be short.  

    I am heavily looking at team B in this kind of situation, even better if the public likes team A, which most commonly they will.


    Problem is, after week four/five you look at a small amount of games that fit a 55% system. I don't know how many games have been there per season, but if it's 20, you are trying to come out 11-9 of those games.

    Why not investing the time in capping matchups, getting into stats that mean something in every game, watching tape etc. to try to get to 60% over the course of maybe 100-120 games per season? Don't know whether you already do this or not.


     
    Indigo999
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    Posted: Aug. 1, 2015 - 10:14 PM ET #67

    There's no "problem".   90% of bettors use fundamental handicapping to determine where they're putting their money down and  10% use technical handicapping.....similar to  stock market investing.   You are primarily a fundamental handicapper.  A lot of technical handicapping involves believing that most people will be wrong or believing that what transpired before will change  about 55-60% of the time.

    Because one person loves Brussell Sprouts and another hates them doesn't make one person crazy, ignorant, wrong or a problem.  

    There are people here that last year that did very well  being a fundamental handicapper.  That's good...it is a system of evaluating that has worked well for some.  However, Las Vegas and bookmakers make a lot  of money from people who are wrong more times than they are right.  

    Do what works well FOR YOU and good fortune to everyone here this year.
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    There's no "problem".   90% of bettors use fundamental handicapping to determine where they're putting their money down and  10% use technical handicapping.....similar to  stock market investing.   You are primarily a fundamental handicapper.  A lot of technical handicapping involves believing that most people will be wrong or believing that what transpired before will change  about 55-60% of the time.

    Because one person loves Brussell Sprouts and another hates them doesn't make one person crazy, ignorant, wrong or a problem.  

    There are people here that last year that did very well  being a fundamental handicapper.  That's good...it is a system of evaluating that has worked well for some.  However, Las Vegas and bookmakers make a lot  of money from people who are wrong more times than they are right.  

    Do what works well FOR YOU and good fortune to everyone here this year.
     
    GotPhoTai
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    Posted: Aug. 1, 2015 - 11:10 PM ET #68

    Nice to see u
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    Nice to see u
     
    porcelainfist
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    Posted: Aug. 1, 2015 - 11:20 PM ET #69

    I understand what you're saying bro, but unless you understand through tape study why the statistics occurred you are bound to make mistakes. You can act like having your eyes closed you understand how to paint the Mona Lisa but I would rather use EVERY method at my disposal to try to handle such an undertaking.
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    I understand what you're saying bro, but unless you understand through tape study why the statistics occurred you are bound to make mistakes. You can act like having your eyes closed you understand how to paint the Mona Lisa but I would rather use EVERY method at my disposal to try to handle such an undertaking.
     
    Indigo999
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    Posted: Aug. 2, 2015 - 2:53 AM ET #70

    You're welcome to tape study....but if that was the key to betting success, you'd think that Mike Ditka, Dan Marino, Michael Strahan, Boomer,  Merril Hoge and  the others of the pregame experts would be the best handicappers out there.  They've played and coached the game at a high, high level.

    Instead, you'll make money every year by fading them.  There are bettors that play against a pregame analyst consensus....when 9 or 10 out of 10 of those experts are on one side.....they win fading that consensus every year.

    Betfair did  a study and found that 30,000 out of 800,000 of their bettors were winners...that's 3.75% of their betting population that won.  Makes you wonder why some betting agencies limit bettors (William Hill, 5Dimes, etc.) if they have over a 96 percent chance that a bettor will be a loser. 

    If film study is the key for you and you can see things on film that helps you win  that all-pros and hall of fame coaches can't/don't.....like I've said, any way you can win, you should do it your own way. 
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    You're welcome to tape study....but if that was the key to betting success, you'd think that Mike Ditka, Dan Marino, Michael Strahan, Boomer,  Merril Hoge and  the others of the pregame experts would be the best handicappers out there.  They've played and coached the game at a high, high level.

    Instead, you'll make money every year by fading them.  There are bettors that play against a pregame analyst consensus....when 9 or 10 out of 10 of those experts are on one side.....they win fading that consensus every year.

    Betfair did  a study and found that 30,000 out of 800,000 of their bettors were winners...that's 3.75% of their betting population that won.  Makes you wonder why some betting agencies limit bettors (William Hill, 5Dimes, etc.) if they have over a 96 percent chance that a bettor will be a loser. 

    If film study is the key for you and you can see things on film that helps you win  that all-pros and hall of fame coaches can't/don't.....like I've said, any way you can win, you should do it your own way. 
     
    suuma
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    Posted: Aug. 2, 2015 - 5:08 AM ET #71

    Those "experts" don't even know the difference between total yards and yards per play. I wouldn't listen to them either.
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    Those "experts" don't even know the difference between total yards and yards per play. I wouldn't listen to them either.
     
    Brown8535
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    Posted: Aug. 2, 2015 - 12:15 PM ET #72

    I think we should cut indigo some slack. Like it or not analytics are here to stay. Porcelain, I'm more like you, I trust my eyes more than anything. But even I have to admit, with some of the math out there, my eyes have been deceived with what's actually happening.
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    I think we should cut indigo some slack. Like it or not analytics are here to stay. Porcelain, I'm more like you, I trust my eyes more than anything. But even I have to admit, with some of the math out there, my eyes have been deceived with what's actually happening.
     
    MRxKrazz
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    Posted: Aug. 6, 2015 - 11:22 PM ET #73

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick100:


    Thanks for sharing your leans MRxKrazz, and congrats on a successful 2014.

    I just wanted to get your take on Wade changing Den's D to a 3-4 from a 4-3.. whether you think it will effect them positively or negatively so early as Wk1?  

    Den's D is very talented, and performed well last year.  I'm a subscriber to the idea, "don't fix what's not broken".

    Another thing, I know you think Kubiack has an advantage to game plan toward Justin Forrset (for obv reasons), but doesn't Blt have a similar advantage game planning to Kubiak?

    I personally think wade will turn Den's D into something special this year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slick100:


    Thanks for sharing your leans MRxKrazz, and congrats on a successful 2014.

    I just wanted to get your take on Wade changing Den's D to a 3-4 from a 4-3.. whether you think it will effect them positively or negatively so early as Wk1?  

    Den's D is very talented, and performed well last year.  I'm a subscriber to the idea, "don't fix what's not broken".

    Another thing, I know you think Kubiack has an advantage to game plan toward Justin Forrset (for obv reasons), but doesn't Blt have a similar advantage game planning to Kubiak?

    I personally think wade will turn Den's D into something special this year.

     
    Slick100
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    Posted: Aug. 8, 2015 - 12:45 PM ET #74

    Thanks for giving your opinion on that.

    Jay Mohr's Sports was at Broncos' camp, yesterday.  He had Talib on.  Talib was enthusiastic about the change, and said the same thing you're saying, they're going to have a special D.  They certainly have the talent/personnel to do so.  
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    Thanks for giving your opinion on that.

    Jay Mohr's Sports was at Broncos' camp, yesterday.  He had Talib on.  Talib was enthusiastic about the change, and said the same thing you're saying, they're going to have a special D.  They certainly have the talent/personnel to do so.  
     
     
    porcelainfist
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    Posted: Aug. 8, 2015 - 2:51 PM ET #75

    And again, Merril Hoge, Mike Ditka and Dan Marino may have made a living studying tape, but they now make their living as PERSONALITIES. 

    Sensationalism, not accuracy is what they make their living at. 

    Also, when watching film you need to watch the same tape of both teams over and over, evaluating each position group and taking notes. For example, if you just watch all five of Miami's offensive line at the same time, you may come away saying they're ok... But when you watch Dallas Thomas you realize that he is a dumpster fire and can be exploited for quick pressure. 

    Then you look at Washington's interior pressure. You watch Jason Hatcher in 2014. Then you watch Stephen Paea in Chicago in 2014. This is already further than most go. Then you realize sweet, Chicago and Miami played in 2014, let's watch Stephen Paea v. Dallas Thomas. 

    Then you have to go to the secondary match ups. Are the DBs on the roster effective in man coverage? For example, Derelle Revis is the best man corner in the game. He turns and locates as well as uses his leverage so well that throwing to him in man coverage would be a pretty high percentage play for an INT or a pass defense. 

    Todd Bowles is fond of "fire and ice" defense, where multiple plays are "Zero" man blitzes, but also mixed in are "drop seven" looks where the QB feels "Phantom Pressure" from his internal countdown being shortened by the frequent blitzing. The idea is to get the QB to throw quickly all the time. 

    Also, when you are in tight man with quick blitzes, the QB is going to naturally begin to make pre snap decisions, for instance, he will be looking "hot" before the play anticipating man blitz. Because of this, he may already be looking for a quick out or a corner route, which are routes that are "Man Beaters". 

    A QB, even a very good one, can only watch so many things at once. Because of this, he will see a LB in zone coverage as being a "lazy" man-coverage on his tight end who is on an out or a corner, and that will make him throw into zone because he feels pressure that isn't there and is operating on an assumption of man coverage. 

    Will this happen all the time? No. But Bowles has such an effective defensive style because it will happen ONCE IN A WHILE. This will create a turnover or a punt multiple times in the game. Because of FILM STUDY, we know that Revis is going to shadow and take away one receiver. 

    In the Browns game, this is likely to be Dwayne Bowe. Take him away, he's gone. 

    Also, because of FILM STUDY, we know that Buster Skrine is also VERY EFFECTIVE in man coverage when utilized in the slot. He sticks to his man very well from this position. However, because of FILM STUDY, we also know that Skrine was used as a number two corner last year against the Y receiver. Here, Skrine is borderline horrendous.

    If you watch Skrine playing against Torrey Smith you see Skrine beaten routinely by the larger Smith. If you use statistics alone, these statistics will show you that a VERY effective Nickel Slot corner is actually a VERY POOR corner. This isn't true, as film study shows that he is a SPECIALTY player, and when used properly is HIGHLY effective. 

    However, since you use only statistics, it will show that Skrine is actually going to hinder the Jets secondary. 

    The real story is this, whoever is on Cromartie is going to have to use double moves to beat him, and that is going to be one of the only reads that will be effective for McCown in week one. I would look for the Tight End to have to have a big game as well, but I would also expect at least ONE int coming from McCown reading the Tight End hot and mistakenly throwing into blanket zone coverage. 

    McCown is great against zone, one of the best I have seen. However, it's like Mike Tyson said, everybody has a plan until they get hit. Once McCown has taken a couple of sacks from Leonard Williams, Muhammed Wilkerson, and Skrine, who has skill as a slot blitzer, I would expect to see his internal clock being sped up and him making some mistakes. 

    Anyway, these are just two games that I expect to go UNDER on the total. Rest assured, this is from more hours of study than most of these pros do. And it's not because I am over here saying I am better at tape study, I would LOVE to break down film with any of those guys, they would HELP me in my evals. However, it is because my livelihood DEPENDS on me being over 55%. 

    I would expect that if these guys' paycheck depended on their picks, they wouldn't make such cavalier picks.
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    And again, Merril Hoge, Mike Ditka and Dan Marino may have made a living studying tape, but they now make their living as PERSONALITIES. 

    Sensationalism, not accuracy is what they make their living at. 

    Also, when watching film you need to watch the same tape of both teams over and over, evaluating each position group and taking notes. For example, if you just watch all five of Miami's offensive line at the same time, you may come away saying they're ok... But when you watch Dallas Thomas you realize that he is a dumpster fire and can be exploited for quick pressure. 

    Then you look at Washington's interior pressure. You watch Jason Hatcher in 2014. Then you watch Stephen Paea in Chicago in 2014. This is already further than most go. Then you realize sweet, Chicago and Miami played in 2014, let's watch Stephen Paea v. Dallas Thomas. 

    Then you have to go to the secondary match ups. Are the DBs on the roster effective in man coverage? For example, Derelle Revis is the best man corner in the game. He turns and locates as well as uses his leverage so well that throwing to him in man coverage would be a pretty high percentage play for an INT or a pass defense. 

    Todd Bowles is fond of "fire and ice" defense, where multiple plays are "Zero" man blitzes, but also mixed in are "drop seven" looks where the QB feels "Phantom Pressure" from his internal countdown being shortened by the frequent blitzing. The idea is to get the QB to throw quickly all the time. 

    Also, when you are in tight man with quick blitzes, the QB is going to naturally begin to make pre snap decisions, for instance, he will be looking "hot" before the play anticipating man blitz. Because of this, he may already be looking for a quick out or a corner route, which are routes that are "Man Beaters". 

    A QB, even a very good one, can only watch so many things at once. Because of this, he will see a LB in zone coverage as being a "lazy" man-coverage on his tight end who is on an out or a corner, and that will make him throw into zone because he feels pressure that isn't there and is operating on an assumption of man coverage. 

    Will this happen all the time? No. But Bowles has such an effective defensive style because it will happen ONCE IN A WHILE. This will create a turnover or a punt multiple times in the game. Because of FILM STUDY, we know that Revis is going to shadow and take away one receiver. 

    In the Browns game, this is likely to be Dwayne Bowe. Take him away, he's gone. 

    Also, because of FILM STUDY, we know that Buster Skrine is also VERY EFFECTIVE in man coverage when utilized in the slot. He sticks to his man very well from this position. However, because of FILM STUDY, we also know that Skrine was used as a number two corner last year against the Y receiver. Here, Skrine is borderline horrendous.

    If you watch Skrine playing against Torrey Smith you see Skrine beaten routinely by the larger Smith. If you use statistics alone, these statistics will show you that a VERY effective Nickel Slot corner is actually a VERY POOR corner. This isn't true, as film study shows that he is a SPECIALTY player, and when used properly is HIGHLY effective. 

    However, since you use only statistics, it will show that Skrine is actually going to hinder the Jets secondary. 

    The real story is this, whoever is on Cromartie is going to have to use double moves to beat him, and that is going to be one of the only reads that will be effective for McCown in week one. I would look for the Tight End to have to have a big game as well, but I would also expect at least ONE int coming from McCown reading the Tight End hot and mistakenly throwing into blanket zone coverage. 

    McCown is great against zone, one of the best I have seen. However, it's like Mike Tyson said, everybody has a plan until they get hit. Once McCown has taken a couple of sacks from Leonard Williams, Muhammed Wilkerson, and Skrine, who has skill as a slot blitzer, I would expect to see his internal clock being sped up and him making some mistakes. 

    Anyway, these are just two games that I expect to go UNDER on the total. Rest assured, this is from more hours of study than most of these pros do. And it's not because I am over here saying I am better at tape study, I would LOVE to break down film with any of those guys, they would HELP me in my evals. However, it is because my livelihood DEPENDS on me being over 55%. 

    I would expect that if these guys' paycheck depended on their picks, they wouldn't make such cavalier picks.
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