NFL Sunday Week 11...

IBIT is a strict 1 / 1 with BTC.  If you buy 10 dollars of IBIT, you have bought 10 dollars of BTC.  It is an indexed COMMODITY ETF.

MSTR is a company.  It can do different things with its treasury.  It has human intellectual capital.  

MSTR is not just a BTC ETF, although on the surface it looks like it should be.  It trades at a premium - currently about 3.4X (Stock price X shares outstanding = market cap.  Market cap divided by holding BTC value is 3.4).

A couple of reasons:

1. Currently, there are a ton of big money funds - like pensions or money managers - who cannot buy a commodity like BTC or even the BTC etf. But they can buy a company like MSTR.
2. MSTR is buying on leverage, where IBIT is a 1-1 bitcoin ETF. MSTR is said to have around a 2-1 performance to BTC or IBIT.
3. MSTR can actually use their treasury to do business also. BTC cant.
4. The stock market is forward looking. For example, 95% of Microsofts value is in their projected earnings.  It is very typical of companies with intellectual capital to trade at premiums.  It is just the difference of how companies are valued vs commodities are valued.

That is how I understand it.  There are some betting (shorts) on the premium flattening.  But there is certainly a mania around the stock right now.  It is around 250th in market cap, and probably going to be included in the Nasdaq 100 soon (they are 60th I think).

@vanzack

 What also is in the 21 million count is this. How many BTC are in lost or forgotten forever wallets? We may never know. 

Isn't it too late to buy bitcoin at this price? What is your price target in the future?

Correct.

The 21M BTC is after everything is mined.

There are also estimated at least 3m btc lost, locked, or dust (too small to be valuable).

So the general thought is that there is 18m maximum.

It is the only asset in human history to be non-inflationary.  That is the value.

Not too late.  You are still early.

At current growth rates, conservatively it will be 1M in 10 years.

@gotime

 There's the Genesis block of 1 million Satoshi kept that will probably never be touched, and another 3-4 million lost.

Since you're not on the monday night game, that's 11 losing weeks in a row. Is it still due to statistical unluckiness?

Thoughts on Bitcoin mining stocks? they're going through the roof!   WULF, CLSK, MARA

@C-70Blues

 Get outta here punk! Your breath stinks

Why don't you let vanzack speak for himself? 

Ponderings:

1.) How soon will BTC replace the dollar (and other currencies) as the world's money? Isn't this starting to happen now? and will the Trump administration move toward making this happen?

2.) What will BTC do to the price of gold? Are the two tied together or will gold eventually become a worthless metal, replaced b y BTC as? As a kid I remember an old Twilight Zone show, the underlying theme being that gold became valueless in the future. Intriguing.

3.) I recall a teacher telling me that economics is essentially the study of money. What will BTC do to how we understand economics? If it is indeed inflation proof as you intimate, won't its use as a currency bring about a radical change in the macro economic theory? Are we at the dawn an economic revolution now and most folks don't realize it yet? Interesting.

4.) Won't increased BTC usage necessitate alternative sources of energy such as solar? It's not hard to imagine bitcoin data centers powered by solar energy stations in the future.

RT2

Im in MSTR, Sailor Moons etf, it is slightly leveraged above a 1 to 1 in btc, in regards to Gold, check out TheoTrade on youtubes last video. A pretty good one.

Downside of IBIT and the other ETFs are the fees. 

@vanzack

Thank you for taking your time to help educate us on this topic. Are you saying it's better to buy BTC or buy MSTR or both? 

And Mara is buying BTC also, they announced today.

Mining stocks will grow also.  Good diversification to core BTC holdings.

@vanzack

 Gold and silver in my own hands. 

Bitcoin can never replace fiat currency

there is not enough supply to fill the worlds need for trade

Unless everyone agrees to trade is fractions of bitcoin, which makes no sense.

@vanzack

 Van if I missed it sorry but please share any and everything you’d suggest in the Bitcoin market. Would you buy any Doge?

I currently have Marathon and Bitdig. Anything else specifics you suggest.

sorry if it’s already been covered

1.  I think you need to think of them as co-existing.  Bitcoin is not a currency.  It is a commodity.  So dollars are transactional, while bitcoin is a store of money.  Think of it like this....   You are a high net worth person, or a company.  Where do you put your dollars?  Whether you buy real estate, stocks, bonds...  They are all subject to inflation and degredation and costs.  But if you just put it in BTC, there is zero costs, zero worry - and it is not deflationary.  So when you need dollars to transact, you simply bring some back to dollars and transact (in chunks obviously).

Imagine if BTC because a strategic reserve for countries (which I think it will).  Then debts could be settled with BTC instead of currency transactions, currency exchange rates etc.  It is a much more efficient system.

2.  The gold market cap is around 17 trillion, while the BTC current MC is 1.8T - so roughly gold is 10X what BTC is currently.  That will flip one day.  Gold in not finite.  It is hard to move gold.  Gold cant be digitally transacted instantly.  Gold does have properties of utility though - and that will continue to have value.

3.  YES YES AND YES.  BTC will revolutionize economics.  It is a perfect commodity.  This is why it is just the beginning.

4.  I am not an expert on the energy aspect of mining.  I only go by what I hear from experts much smarter than me who say that it takes less energy to have a BTC economy than a fiat economy.

Yes.  .25% per year in fees, to have custody of your BTC.

Neither.

I am saying educate yourself to BTC.  Learn the language.  You will be in the top 1% of the world population if you do it now.

Then you can make the decisions that are right for you.

As I said above....  Totally agree.

They work together.

Posts #141, 142, 144.

Thanks a bunch buddy!

I have a question for you if you would be so kind to answer. After giving the books money over the years I’ve finally accumulated quite a bit of winnings for my bankroll and am ready to start withdrawing small amounts over time. 

My understanding is if I withdraw via bitcoin to a coinbase wallet then transfer to my checking account I will receive a tax form from coinbase. Is there a better way to avoid the taxman or any advice you can give?

Would love advice from anyone in this thread…