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Why did Cleveland fire Shurmur

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Posted: #1
seems like they had a pretty good season to me, considering their division and they are the youngest team in the league.  clearly pitt and Blt are more vulnerable and cleveland has a chance to make some ground.  the guy was only in his second year.  most importantly, they had a winning record, ats.
 
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Posted: #2

yeah, they seemed to play hard, had a good defense, and had a rookie qb and rb.

a couple of new o-lineman and that team could be a real threat next year.

 
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Posted: #3
He was the worst coach ever... they never should have fired Mangini.
 
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Posted: #4
how was he the worst ever?  i don't see it.  looks like cleveland had a pretty good season to me. 
 
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Posted: #5
mangini is NOT head coach material.
 
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Posted: #6
credit should go to Holmgren, he's been criticized during his tenure as the GM but he had a garbage of a team in 2010. look at the team now, they could break out next season if they can get some quality receiving.
 
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Posted: #7
Quote Originally Posted by komot:

credit should go to Holmgren, he's been criticized during his tenure as the GM but he had a garbage of a team in 2010. look at the team now, they could break out next season if they can get some quality receiving.


not if they change coaches and systems every two years
 
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Posted: #8
Defense was pretty good I thought.
 
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Posted: #9
Terrible playcalling, terrible at press conferences....  and team owners don't give a garbage about his ATS record.  Most teams play down to them, not the other way around.
 
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Posted: #10

The talent on that Cleveland is horrible; are the oweners thinking that "if we had a coach, we would be winning?"  I think he did a pretty good job with not too much.  Though I really can't stand him, I think (finally) an owner did the right thing and fired a GM instead of a coach.  The talent the New York Jets have is laughable and the fact that the JETS went 6-10 is remarkable.  Tannenbaum is a joke and I would love to see any coach on the NFL get more than 6 wins with that talent.  Zero QB, zero receivers, zero dbs, etc. 

 
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Posted: #11
The NBC interview with Shanahan last night was great.  He told Snyder "I'm not coming here to get fired in 2 years.  Give me 5 years to do it my way, the right way, and I'll sign up".   That is what these garbage teams like Cleveland need.
 
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Posted: #12
Quote Originally Posted by BWS77:

Terrible playcalling, terrible at press conferences....  and team owners don't give a garbage about his ATS record.  Most teams play down to them, not the other way around.


team owners should look at ats records, not the way we do, but what is a better and more accurate benchmark for how your team is doing each week?   otherwise, you can set unrealistic expectations and bring in a new coach and system every couple of years and never get anywhere.
 
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Posted: #13
Quote Originally Posted by BWS77:

The NBC interview with Shanahan last night was great.  He told Snyder "I'm not coming here to get fired in 2 years.  Give me 5 years to do it my way, the right way, and I'll sign up".   That is what these garbage teams like Cleveland need.
I like it. But the younger, less experienced guys aren't going to have that clout. They either do like Sean Peyton did in 3 years or less, or they're fired. 
 
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Posted: #14
Quote Originally Posted by ClubDirt:



team owners should look at ats records, not the way we do, but what is a better and more accurate benchmark for how your team is doing each week?   otherwise, you can set unrealistic expectations and bring in a new coach and system every couple of years and never get anywhere.

So according to your theory, if you were the owner of an NFL team and they went 2-14, but had an ATS record of 9-7 you'd be OK with that?  

So if you're the Rams owner, and you didn't sniff the playoffs and you are the 3rd best team in your division you would tell your fan base it's gonna be OK because we were 11-5 ATS?
 
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Posted: #15
Quote Originally Posted by BWS77:


So according to your theory, if you were the owner of an NFL team and they went 2-14, but had an ATS record of 9-7 you'd be OK with that?  

So if you're the Rams owner, and you didn't sniff the playoffs and you are the 3rd best team in your division you would tell your fan base it's gonna be OK because we were 11-5 ATS?


the answers to both questions is:  no.

my poinjt, and it's not that complicated, is there is no better benchmark for determining realistic expectations for your team, and whether they exceeded them or not, is to see how many wins vegas projects for them for the season and to see what vegas projects the team to do each week.


what better and more realistic benchmark are you aware of for any given team in any given season?
 
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Posted: #16
of course, if vegas projected an over/under of 1.5 or 2 for a team and they went 2-14 and 9-7 ats, then i would guess they had a pretty decent season, relatively and it might well be an overreaction to fire the coach and start a new system.  however, i've never seen an over/under that low. 

as for the rams, they had a good season.  easily beat their vegas win total and had a very good ats record ats.  are you suggesting the rams did not have a good season and/or should fire their coach.
 
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Posted: #17
Vegas makes lines to get action split each way....  I believe the over/under on wins was 5 so they were right there.  

Now if they were constantly double digit underdogs and had a good ATS record then there is something to be said about that.   But saying the Browns had a good year this year is way off.  The offense struggled with basic things like catching the ball.  Play calling was atrocious many times throwing on 3rd and 1 with Trent Richardson on the bench.  The defense played well for the 2nd straight year, but are not capable of winning games themselves.  How many times did Vick turn it over in week 1?  And they still couldn't win.  Pittsburgh is on a downslide, as is Baltimore but Cleveland is still the dregs of the division and will be for years to come.
 
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Posted: #18
sure vegas's primary purpose is to get action on both sides but often the best way to do that is to set a line based on how much better one team is than the other in that particular matchupo.

anyway, i say they had a good season.  but it's all relative.  no, they didn't win their division but i believe they were the youngest team in the league, they matched the over under for wins, got one more win than last season which is not easy to do with all the young starters, played in a very tough division, played hard just about every game, played great defense and they have some good parts for the future. 

but ok, if i'm way off, then answer this:

how many wins do you expect from a 4 win team in 2011 that is the youngest team in the league, with a coach and system only in its second season, playing in a divison with three good teams and no bad teams, had to play the NFC east which had 3 teams on the verge of the playoffs in the final week, plus playing two other playoff teams on the road?


 
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Posted: #19
I thought they would win 3 games going into the season.  Their only good win was against Cincy.  They beat KC, Oakland and San Diego....they should move to the AFC West!   And the Pittsburgh win was against Charlie Batch and they forced 8 turnovers, yet they still only won by 6.  

I guess we got off topic here since this thread is about Shurmer.  He really didn't get a fair shake since he had no offseason in 2011 and a new QB this year, but he was never and probably will never be a great coach.  The team had no identity on offense.....not even for a couple weeks.  

Browns fans say it's all about tradition with the team.  Well, their latest tradition is to change coaches every 2 years so at least they stayed consistent with that.  
 
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Posted: #20
He was fired because the Browns have a new owner and new CEO who will be bringing in their own HC and GM.  That is the reason. 
 
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Posted: #21
per adam caplan on twitter....

The Sideline View's Adam Caplan reports that Oregon head coach Chip Kelly is the Browns' "clear No. 1 choice" for the team's head-coaching vacancy.
Browns owner Jimmy Haslam is ready to spend big and is willing to give the next head coach "final say" over player personnel decisions. That is exactly what Kelly has reportedly been seeking if he makes the jump from the college ranks to the NFL. This would seem to be bad news for Brandon Weeden's future in Cleveland as he doesn't seem to fit Kelly's mold for an athletic quarterback. The Browns roster is also viewed as one of the best - if not the best - among the teams with vacancies at the top. Dec 31 - 8:37 PM
 
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Posted: #22
Quote Originally Posted by BWS77:

I thought they would win 3 games going into the season.  Their only good win was against Cincy.  They beat KC, Oakland and San Diego....they should move to the AFC West!   And the Pittsburgh win was against Charlie Batch and they forced 8 turnovers, yet they still only won by 6.  

I guess we got off topic here since this thread is about Shurmer.  He really didn't get a fair shake since he had no offseason in 2011 and a new QB this year, but he was never and probably will never be a great coach.  The team had no identity on offense.....not even for a couple weeks.  

Browns fans say it's all about tradition with the team.  Well, their latest tradition is to change coaches every 2 years so at least they stayed consistent with that.  


being from ohio, you probably know the team better than i do.  i was just making an argument that it doesn't look as bad as it may seem.  anyway, it's all opinion. 

however, i think some of these owners need to be careful firing coaches.  there will be a lot of vacancies this offseason and probably not too many quality coaches to fill them.  maybe the grass is greener . . ., we'll see.

the Kcop, yeah, it sounds like this move was in the works for a while now.
 
 
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Posted: #23
As a Steeler fan I was hoping he would stay. 
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