Yep

This thread by @martyrmade hits the nail on the head 

I think I've had discussions w/enough Boomer-tier Trump supporters who believe the 2020 election was fraudulent to extract a general theory about their perspective. It is also the perspective of most of the people at the Capitol on 1/6, and probably even Trump himself.

Most believe some or all of the theories involving midnight ballots, voting machines, etc, but what you find when you talk to them is that, while they'll defend those positions w/info they got from Hannity or Breitbart or whatever, they're not particularly attached to them.

Here are the facts - actual, confirmed facts - that shape their perspective: 1) The FBI/etc spied on the 2016 Trump campaign using evidence manufactured by the Clinton campaign. We now know that all involved knew it was fake from Day 1 (see: Brennan's July 2016 memo, etc).

These are Tea Party people. The types who give their kids a pocket Constitution for their birthday and have Founding Fathers memes in their bios. The intel community spying on a presidential campaign using fake evidence (incl forged documents) is a big deal to them.

Everyone involved lied about their involvement as long as they could. We only learned the DNC paid for the manufactured evidence because of a court order. Comey denied on TV knowing the DNC paid for it, when we have emails from a year earlier proving that he knew.

This was true with everyone, from CIA Dir Brennan & Adam Schiff - who were on TV saying they'd seen clear evidence of collusion w/Russia, while admitting under oath behind closed doors that they hadn't - all the way down the line. In the end we learned that it was ALL fake.

At first, many Trump ppl were worried there must be some collusion, because every media & intel agency wouldn't make it up out of nothing. When it was clear that they had made it up, people expected a reckoning, and shed many illusions about their gov't when it didn't happen.

We know as fact: a) The Steele dossier was the sole evidence used to justify spying on the Trump campaign, b) The FBI knew the Steele dossier was a DNC op, c) Steele's source told the FBI the info was unserious, d) they did not inform the court of any of this and kept spying.

Trump supporters know the collusion case front and back. They went from worrying the collusion must be real, to suspecting it might be fake, to realizing it was a scam, then watched as every institution - agencies, the press, Congress, academia - gaslit them for another year.

Worse, collusion was used to scare people away from working in the administration. They knew their entire lives would be investigated. Many quit because they were being bankrupted by legal fees. The DoJ, press, & gov't destroyed lives and actively subverted an elected admin.

This is where people whose political identity was largely defined by a naive belief in what they learned in Civics class began to see the outline of a Regime that crossed all institutional boundaries. Because it had stepped out of the shadows to unite against an interloper.

GOP propaganda still has many of them thinking in terms of partisan binaries, but A LOT of Trump supporters see that the Regime is not partisan. They all know that the same institutions would have taken opposite sides if it was a Tulsi Gabbard vs Jeb Bush election.

It's hard to describe to people on the left (who are used to thinking of gov't as a conspiracy... Watergate, COINTELPRO, WMD, etc) how shocking & disillusioning this was for people who encourage their sons to enlist in the Army, and hate ppl who don't stand for the Anthem.

They could have managed the shock if it only involved the government. But the behavior of the corporate press is really what radicalized them. They hate journalists more than they hate any politician or gov't official, because they feel most betrayed by them.

The idea that the press is driven by ratings/sensationalism became untenable. If that were true, they'd be all over the Epstein story. The corporate press is the propaganda arm of the Regime they now see in outline. Nothing anyone says will ever make them unsee that, period.

This is profoundly disorienting. Many of them don't know for certain whether ballots were faked in November 2020, but they know for absolute certain that the press, the FBI, etc would lie to them if there was. They have every reason to believe that, and it's probably true.

They watched the press behave like animals for four years. Tens of millions of people will always see Kavanaugh as a gang rapist, based on nothing, because of CNN. And CNN seems proud of that. They led a lynch mob against a high school kid. They cheered on a summer of riots.

They always claimed the media had liberal bias, fine, whatever. They still thought the press would admit truth if they were cornered. Now they don't. It's a different thing to watch them invent stories whole cloth in order to destroy regular lives and spark mass violence.

Time Mag told us that during the 2020 riots, there were weekly conference calls involving, among others, leaders of the protests, the local officials who refused to stop them, and media people who framed them for political effect. In Ukraine we call that a color revolution.

Throughout the summer, Democrat governors took advantage of COVID to change voting procedures. It wasn't just the mail-ins (they lowered signature matching standards, etc). After the collusion scam, the fake impeachment, Trump ppl expected shenanigans by now.

Re: "fake impeachment", we now know that Trump's request for Ukraine to cooperate w/the DOJ regarding Biden's $ activities in Ukraine was in support of an active investigation being pursued by the FBI and Ukraine AG at the time, and so a completely legitimate request.

Then you get the Hunter laptop scandal. Big Tech ran a full-on censorship campaign against a major newspaper to protect a political candidate. Period. Everyone knows it, all of the Tech companies now admit it was a "mistake" - but, ya know, the election's over, so who cares?

Goes w/o saying, but: If the NY Times had Don Jr's laptop, full of pics of him smoking crack and engaging in group sex, lots of lurid family drama, emails describing direct corruption and backed up by the CEO of the company they were using, the NYT wouldn't have been banned.

Think back: Stories about Trump being pissed on by Russian prostitutes and blackmailed by Putin were promoted as fact, and the only evidence was a document paid for by his opposition and disavowed by its source. The NY Post was banned for reporting on true information.

The reaction of Trump ppl to all this was not, "no fair!" That's how they felt about Romney's "binders of women" in 2012. This is different. Now they see, correctly, that every institution is captured by ppl who will use any means to exclude them from the political process.

And yet they showed up in record numbers to vote. He got 13m more votes than in 2016, 10m more than Clinton got! As election night dragged on, they allowed themselves some hope. But when the four critical swing states (and only those states) went dark at midnight, they knew.

Over the ensuing weeks, they got shuffled around by grifters and media scam artists selling them conspiracy theories. They latched onto one, then another increasingly absurd theory as they tried to put a concrete name on something very real.

Media & Tech did everything to make things worse. Everything about the election was strange - the changes to procedure, unprecedented mail-in voting, the delays, etc - but rather than admit that and make everything transparent, they banned discussion of it (even in DMs!).

Everyone knows that, just as Don Jr's laptop would've been the story of the century, if everything about the election dispute was the same, except the parties were reversed, suspicions about the outcome would've been Taken Very Seriously. See 2016 for proof.

Even the courts' refusal of the case gets nowhere w/them, because of how the opposition embraced mass political violence. They'll say, w/good reason: What judge will stick his neck out for Trump knowing he'll be destroyed in the media as a violent mob burns down his house?

It's a fact, according to Time Magazine, that mass riots were planned in cities across the country if Trump won. Sure, they were "protests", but they were planned by the same people as during the summer, and everyone knows what it would have meant. Judges have families, too.

Forget the ballot conspiracies. It's a fact that governors used COVID to unconstitutionally alter election procedures (the Constitution states that only legislatures can do so) to help Biden to make up for a massive enthusiasm gap by gaming the mail-in ballot system.

They knew it was unconstitutional, it's right there in plain English. But they knew the cases wouldn't see court until after the election. And what judge will toss millions of ballots because a governor broke the rules? The threat of mass riots wasn't implied, it was direct.

a) The entrenched bureaucracy & security state subverted Trump from Day 1, b) The press is part of the operation, c) Election rules were changed, d) Big Tech censors opposition, e) Political violence is legitimized & encouraged, f) Trump is banned from social media.

They were led down some rabbit holes, but they are absolutely right that their gov't is monopolized by a Regime that believes they are beneath representation, and will observe no limits to keep them getting it. Trump fans should be happy he lost; it might've kept him alive.

Smart Democrats like Wallstreetcappers and djbrow know this thread is the truth. They didn’t like trump because he’s an egomaniac arrogant asshole. 

I liked Trump for those reasons. I had enough of the fake media. I was a democrat. I thought Iraq, Afghanistan, WMD’s, military industrial complex, etc was a Republican thing. And when Obama went on to bomb 7 countries and ending 0 wars I started looking into everything. I realized they’re all part of the same party. The Establishment. Biden, Obama, McCain, Bush, Kerry, Clinton etc. They are all puppets for the establishment. 

So I liked Trump. Because he made it uncomfortable for them and he had the balls to tell them to go fuck themselves. 

Trumps ego is unmatched. But his character defects are what gave him the balls to shine a light on the establishment and their corruption. 

Shining the light on the establishment and their corruption probably won’t make the fake history books but it’s a pivotal moment in American history. 

Solid read 

This entire thread is the truth. No democrat will touch it because Democrats can’t debate the truth. 

The only place I can disagree is I believe Trump is part of the same establishment. You may go into the office on the outside but you don't come out that way. You think Obama went in to the office as part of this establishment? Like he was some Connecticut blue blood who was groomed for this shit? Do you think widespread drone bombing the fuck out of women and children stopped under Trump? Did it become any more transparent? Nope. The government is fucked and we will never have a truly anti-establishment president. Trump? A guy who puts people like Rex Tillerson (who was not that bad actually) and Betsy DeVos in his cabinet. Yeah, he's very anti-establishment. Neither Trump nor Obama are as bad as Biden though.

100% 

People need to take the red pill and wake the f up.... 

Obama was definitely hand picked by the establishment after his famous speech at the convention 

Trump was definitely never part of the establishment 

Pompeo would be a better mention than Devos or Tillerson

One of the biggest knocks I trump that I agree with is the people he chose to put around him 

Word of advice, listen or not I know you never do....crap like this is why I move your threads. Make threads about content you WANT to debate and engage with not garbage like this which served no purpose but to divide...so your pals who side with you pat you on the back and you are trying to piss off the other side.

This is not why we have this forum here and this is highly why at some point we might not.

Word of advice, you have Democrats going around this forum acting like idiots on a daily basis. 

Enforce the rules fairly or continue to get laughed at. 

Well the entire thread is actually false,

and the real truth is nobody wants to debate with racist and 9/11 DENIER like YOU

The there's this actual ironic FACT . . .

Dec. 19, 2020 - 5:09 PM ET
in Detox' Political thread #4997
Posted by: I_Need_A_Detox <------ 

               "I’m a registered Democrat tbh"

@wallstreetcappers

 Unfortunately for you and a lot of the Dems on here ,Detox has hit the nail on the head.  Everything he has posted holds so much truth, but a lot of people on this forum just can't look themselves in the mirror because of their hatred of Donald Trump.  Sure he is an egotistical asshole, who did make some unbelievable poor cabinet positions (Sessions for one).  But the guy does love this country and wanted it to prosper and with another 4 years we really would be trending in the right direction.  Now look what we have now, I don't need to mention how messed up the country has become in just 6 short months.  The shadiness on election night that happened in those four critical states, stopping the count all at the same time is what Trump supporters have themselves scratching their heads. It took the press, social media and a few democrat operatives in a few crucial states to flip the election to cognitive declining Joe Biden and for that America will continue to pay a steep price.  Just my two cents.

Spoken like someone fully breathing in the Foxygen

[Quote: Originally Posted by Dougfresh]@wallstreetcappers  Unfortunately for you and a lot of the Dems on here ,Detox has hit the nail on the head. 

Well he hasn't.  The article was authored by someone else.  ANd it is seriously FLAWED.

Everything he has posted holds so much truth,

You're obviously new here. Almost EVERYTHING detox says is BS, inclkuding that 9/11 was NOT orchestrated by terrorists but rather by the "establishment" here in the US.   His a tinfoil hat wearing racist.  We have kearned this from following his crap for more than a full year -- something *YOU* have not done!

but a lot of people on this forum just can't look themselves in the mirror because of their hatred of Donald Trump. 

I'll partly agree.  There is a lot of LEARNED bias (from experience) against trump.

I hate trump and I look myself in the mirror everyday. So what?

Sure he is an egotistical asshole, who did make some unbelievable poor cabinet positions (Sessions for one). 

Yes, and he is twice impeached (convicted in the House), incited a mob insurrection, and is largely respnsible for 606,000 dead Americans, to name just a few.  We actuallt have a list of just over 200 similar points on archived on this forum.

and with another 4 years we really would be trending in the right direction. 

Pure conjecture, to which you are entitled, of course, but that's all it is.

The fact is the MAJORITY of Americans disagreed not only with him but MOST of his policies over the final 2 years, and they made that loud and clear on Nov 3.

Now look what we have now, I don't need to mention how messed up the country has become in just 6 short months. 

Sure you do.  And you'll need to provide valid evidence that is truthful and supported, not your conjecture (or mine either)

The shadiness on election night that happened in those four critical states, stopping the count all at the same time is what Trump supporters have themselves scratching their heads. It took the press, social media and a few democrat operatives in a few crucial states to flip the election to cognitive declining Joe Biden and for that America will continue to pay a steep price.  Just my two cents.

Well YOUR 2 cents is worth less than half that.  There is no *PROOF* of any widespread election fraud.  The FB said so after indepth investigation.  Trump's handpicked AG Bill Barr said so and even slammed trump for "the BIG LIE"  Republican election officials in every state not only certified the votes, but recounted them, and then HAND-counted them, and then re-certified them yet again. That's *REPUBLICANS* WHO VOTED FOR TRUMP ON NOVEMBER 3rd WHO INSIST THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF MASSIVE VOTER/ELECTION FRAUD!!

However, I am open minded enough to say, if YOU (or anyone) has valid **PROOF** of massive election fraud -- not conjecture, not suspicions, not mere "evidence" and certainly not the words of some dumbass tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorist -- then show your valid PROOF

trump toilet-worshippers have been challenged thusly for nearly 7 months and so far, NOTHING.

Mike Pompeo is another case altogether but don't sleep on Betsy, bro. Look into who her husband is. Who her father is. Who her brother is. And what the significance of any cabinet position is. Even some dumb shit like education. You know my stance pretty well at this point, bro, i'm not disagreeing with you. All i'm saying is you think Trump is some outlier, some everyman, and he's not. He's no more blue blood than Obama regardless of his money but make no mistake, you don't hold that office without being with the shit. It's funny, there's not any single action nor piece of legislation that really backs this notion of him. And this is coming from a guy that is not a Trump hater. I'd hang with the motherfucker in a minute. You love to talk about the bombing campaigns that started under Bush (We all know he's really with it. Look at who his father is.), and really skyrocketed under Obama. Do you think they stopped under Trump? We're pretty much continuously drone bombing the shit out of the world and involved in multiple skirmishes that the country doesn't even know about because it's not on CNN or Fox News and none of this shit ceased under Trump. There are no outsider Presidents. You can't be and hold the office.

Mostly agree

@wallstreetcappers

 So I guess the “Republicans continue to shame themselves “

“More irresponsible Republican leadership”

”I’m embarrassed for Trump supporters”

etc, etc, etc

Threads are not created to divide and piss off the other side?

You are so biased it’s a fucking joke