I'm asking you to tell me the harm of this law.
But to induldge you, the harm of the law is that illegal behavior is being condoned and rewarded.
I'm asking you to tell me the harm of this law.
But to induldge you, the harm of the law is that illegal behavior is being condoned and rewarded.
I'm asking you to tell me the harm of this law.
But to induldge you, the harm of the law is that illegal behavior is being condoned and rewarded.
Comments:
This kind of stuff is why over 90% of US Citizens have had enough of the whole illegal immigration mess. If nothing is done soon then we need to elect those that will do something, if the liberals manage to get amnesty for illegals I predict most Americans will have a major fit over it.
It is time to cut off the jobs, food stamps, free health care and the 10s of Billions sent back to Mexico every year from illegals working here.
If just these few things were done then you would reduce the deficit, unemployment and help our economy by making the income earned here stay here.
Why is this so hard to do, it's not rocket science, WAKE UP AMERICA AND DEMAND REAL CHANGE RIGHT NOW!!!
Unbelievable! Simply unbelievable. Why is this even under consideration of the court? Our courts are tied up with questions about the rights of illegal aliens... There is just something fundamentally wrong with that.
While we are at it, why not give them a voucher for clothing so that they can look good in class, a voucher for housing so that they have a nice place to live, a voucher for a computer so that they can do better in class, and a nice new car with voucher's for insurance and gas so that they can get around without having to taking public transportation. After all they are "POOR ILLEGAL'S", so why should they have to go without!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Unbelievable! Simply unbelievable. Why is this even under consideration of the court? Our courts are tied up with questions about the rights of illegal aliens... There is just something fundamentally wrong with that.
While we are at it, why not give them a voucher for clothing so that they can look good in class, a voucher for housing so that they have a nice place to live, a voucher for a computer so that they can do better in class, and a nice new car with voucher's for insurance and gas so that they can get around without having to taking public transportation. After all they are "POOR ILLEGAL'S", so why should they have to go without!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
stspecialk,
what part of 'american citizen' dont you understand?
we owe nothing to people who come to this country illegally. do you understand that American citizens from states other than California pay higher rates? is it fair that people who are here illegally, and contributing NOTHING to our economy are paying less than citizens of the U.S.?
i know you are pathetic enough to attempt to rationalize your position, but you are wrong, and couldnt possibly be more wrong.
was it just legal at the time? or did they have to file before showing up like they do today. post 1.11
are you so clueless that you cannot understand the need for change in immigration policy over the years? if the policy is to file before showing up, then, dammit FILE FIRST for cryin out loud. it is not impossible, but IF you choose to be American, then abide by American laws. if you dont, then get back out.
simple. just like you.
stspecialk,
what part of 'american citizen' dont you understand?
we owe nothing to people who come to this country illegally. do you understand that American citizens from states other than California pay higher rates? is it fair that people who are here illegally, and contributing NOTHING to our economy are paying less than citizens of the U.S.?
i know you are pathetic enough to attempt to rationalize your position, but you are wrong, and couldnt possibly be more wrong.
was it just legal at the time? or did they have to file before showing up like they do today. post 1.11
are you so clueless that you cannot understand the need for change in immigration policy over the years? if the policy is to file before showing up, then, dammit FILE FIRST for cryin out loud. it is not impossible, but IF you choose to be American, then abide by American laws. if you dont, then get back out.
simple. just like you.
An illegal person in the US should not be able to attend kindergarten, much less any other school. Once they have established citizenship, then they can apply to attend. My kids have to apply to a school before they can attend, and they have to provide information that they are not an illegal citizen. Why can an Illegal, even obtain a SS# and a drivers license anyway? I Want to see a birth certificate with both parents listed, and their status as well.
An illegal person in the US should not be able to attend kindergarten, much less any other school. Once they have established citizenship, then they can apply to attend. My kids have to apply to a school before they can attend, and they have to provide information that they are not an illegal citizen. Why can an Illegal, even obtain a SS# and a drivers license anyway? I Want to see a birth certificate with both parents listed, and their status as well.
The link supported BFSkate's assertion.
Racism wasn't raised in this thread nor in the article.
Generally speaking, when emotionally charged terms like that are used in defense, it is a result of 1) guilt, 2) lack of real responsive arguments, and/or 3) lack of speaker's intellect.
Generally speaking.
The link supported BFSkate's assertion.
Racism wasn't raised in this thread nor in the article.
Generally speaking, when emotionally charged terms like that are used in defense, it is a result of 1) guilt, 2) lack of real responsive arguments, and/or 3) lack of speaker's intellect.
Generally speaking.
Let's discuss this, shall we.
Does everyone understand why a state school offers in-state tuition? If not, do a google search on the likelyhood of one remaining in-state when one is a resident of that state vs. an out-of-state resident. Th results aren't surprising. The reduction in tuition is simply an investment. From the standpoint of the state and school, what is a better investment...20 students from out of state at increased cost, 15 of whom are likely to return to that state, or 20 students at a lower cost, 15 of whom will remain in that state to take highly productive jobs (and pay taxes) like lawyers..and not nearly as productive, but finance people? From a purely investment standpoint, it is better for CA to offer this to anyone who is likely to remain in state and obtain a degree. So I ask again, where is the harm?
Let's discuss this, shall we.
Does everyone understand why a state school offers in-state tuition? If not, do a google search on the likelyhood of one remaining in-state when one is a resident of that state vs. an out-of-state resident. Th results aren't surprising. The reduction in tuition is simply an investment. From the standpoint of the state and school, what is a better investment...20 students from out of state at increased cost, 15 of whom are likely to return to that state, or 20 students at a lower cost, 15 of whom will remain in that state to take highly productive jobs (and pay taxes) like lawyers..and not nearly as productive, but finance people? From a purely investment standpoint, it is better for CA to offer this to anyone who is likely to remain in state and obtain a degree. So I ask again, where is the harm?
Ahh, the good captain shows up. At least we can have a decent discussion on the issue now. Actually, 100% of illegals pay taxes, or they would die. Is it your assertion that illegals with a college degree would not pay taxes? I see where you are going with this, but the facts work against that argument. 95% of the illegals obtaining a college degree are granted at least temporary citizenship. I would imagine even those that don't are still paying taxes, though. Higher income is equated to paying more in taxes, and lest we forget that somehow, they are earning enough or have enough to pay tuition.
Ahh, the good captain shows up. At least we can have a decent discussion on the issue now. Actually, 100% of illegals pay taxes, or they would die. Is it your assertion that illegals with a college degree would not pay taxes? I see where you are going with this, but the facts work against that argument. 95% of the illegals obtaining a college degree are granted at least temporary citizenship. I would imagine even those that don't are still paying taxes, though. Higher income is equated to paying more in taxes, and lest we forget that somehow, they are earning enough or have enough to pay tuition.
Kind of makes you wonder why people would be up in arms over this when there are plenty of legitimate arguments like welfare for illegals, etc.
Kind of makes you wonder why people would be up in arms over this when there are plenty of legitimate arguments like welfare for illegals, etc.
Wall, no argument on rather having them college educated versus not. I'm not really concerned with advancing/adding to society in mexico, though i am sure that comes as no suprise to you. But it is nice to see you admit that many illegals are on welfare and commit crime and don't offer anything of value to our country.
DJ, 100 percent of illegals pay some form of taxes (sales tax for example) but they most certainly do not pay all taxes. And in fact it is true that some illegals pay taxes and will prolly never have a chance to draw SS. So 95% of illegals that earn a degree gain temporary citizenship. Great, but how many don't get a degree?? Throw those dollars back into this negative equation. And what about Joe from Colorado who wants to attend UCLA?? Is it fair to him that he would pay more than someone who is not even a citizen of the country?? No way in hell we gain a return on this "investment" imo.
Wall, no argument on rather having them college educated versus not. I'm not really concerned with advancing/adding to society in mexico, though i am sure that comes as no suprise to you. But it is nice to see you admit that many illegals are on welfare and commit crime and don't offer anything of value to our country.
DJ, 100 percent of illegals pay some form of taxes (sales tax for example) but they most certainly do not pay all taxes. And in fact it is true that some illegals pay taxes and will prolly never have a chance to draw SS. So 95% of illegals that earn a degree gain temporary citizenship. Great, but how many don't get a degree?? Throw those dollars back into this negative equation. And what about Joe from Colorado who wants to attend UCLA?? Is it fair to him that he would pay more than someone who is not even a citizen of the country?? No way in hell we gain a return on this "investment" imo.
Wall, no argument on rather having them college educated versus not. I'm not really concerned with advancing/adding to society in mexico, though i am sure that comes as no suprise to you. But it is nice to see you admit that many illegals are on welfare and commit crime and don't offer anything of value to our country.
DJ, 100 percent of illegals pay some form of taxes (sales tax for example) but they most certainly do not pay all taxes. And in fact it is true that some illegals pay taxes and will prolly never have a chance to draw SS. So 95% of illegals that earn a degree gain temporary citizenship. Great, but how many don't get a degree?? Throw those dollars back into this negative equation. And what about Joe from Colorado who wants to attend UCLA?? Is it fair to him that he would pay more than someone who is not even a citizen of the country?? No way in hell we gain a return on this "investment" imo.
Ok. Two parts. 1) One that doesn't earn a degree. CA still gains by the tuition payments for the period of time. Do you have facts that suggest that illegals drop out a greater rate than non-illegals? If so, your argument has merit, but I see no such evidence supporting that.
So...2) (and to address Kap's statement) Which is better for CA...Joe from Colorado who goes and spends $50,000 more over 4 years at UCLA and returns to Colorado or Jose' from LA who gets his degree, his citizenship, starts a family in CA, pays his taxes in CA? In-state tuition is an investment by that state. It is better for CA to offer this financially than not.
Aren't all the anti-immigration arguments rooted in financial reasons? It isn't because people are opposed to the "darkening" of American skin right (maybe a tiny percentage)? It is the cost to American taxpayers. So here you are creating a situation to actually benefit the California taxpayer.
Wall, no argument on rather having them college educated versus not. I'm not really concerned with advancing/adding to society in mexico, though i am sure that comes as no suprise to you. But it is nice to see you admit that many illegals are on welfare and commit crime and don't offer anything of value to our country.
DJ, 100 percent of illegals pay some form of taxes (sales tax for example) but they most certainly do not pay all taxes. And in fact it is true that some illegals pay taxes and will prolly never have a chance to draw SS. So 95% of illegals that earn a degree gain temporary citizenship. Great, but how many don't get a degree?? Throw those dollars back into this negative equation. And what about Joe from Colorado who wants to attend UCLA?? Is it fair to him that he would pay more than someone who is not even a citizen of the country?? No way in hell we gain a return on this "investment" imo.
Ok. Two parts. 1) One that doesn't earn a degree. CA still gains by the tuition payments for the period of time. Do you have facts that suggest that illegals drop out a greater rate than non-illegals? If so, your argument has merit, but I see no such evidence supporting that.
So...2) (and to address Kap's statement) Which is better for CA...Joe from Colorado who goes and spends $50,000 more over 4 years at UCLA and returns to Colorado or Jose' from LA who gets his degree, his citizenship, starts a family in CA, pays his taxes in CA? In-state tuition is an investment by that state. It is better for CA to offer this financially than not.
Aren't all the anti-immigration arguments rooted in financial reasons? It isn't because people are opposed to the "darkening" of American skin right (maybe a tiny percentage)? It is the cost to American taxpayers. So here you are creating a situation to actually benefit the California taxpayer.
"So...2) (and to address Kap's statement) Which is better for CA...Joe from Colorado who goes and spends $50,000 more over 4 years at UCLA and returns to Colorado or Jose' from LA who gets his degree, his citizenship, starts a family in CA, pays his taxes in CA? In-state tuition is an investment by that state. It is better for CA to offer this financially than not."
"So...2) (and to address Kap's statement) Which is better for CA...Joe from Colorado who goes and spends $50,000 more over 4 years at UCLA and returns to Colorado or Jose' from LA who gets his degree, his citizenship, starts a family in CA, pays his taxes in CA? In-state tuition is an investment by that state. It is better for CA to offer this financially than not."
DJ...1) considering that approx 11% of u.s. born hispanics graduate from college, i'm going to go out on a limb and say that illegals graduation percentage would be less, though certainly it is practically impossible to prove such
https://www.amren.com/features/hispanics/index.html
2) there are no guarantees that either Joe or Jose will remain in Cali, and i don't know how to compute the odds of either to be honest with you.
Wall, i agree with post 45
DJ...1) considering that approx 11% of u.s. born hispanics graduate from college, i'm going to go out on a limb and say that illegals graduation percentage would be less, though certainly it is practically impossible to prove such
https://www.amren.com/features/hispanics/index.html
2) there are no guarantees that either Joe or Jose will remain in Cali, and i don't know how to compute the odds of either to be honest with you.
Wall, i agree with post 45
"So...2) (and to address Kap's statement) Which is better for CA...Joe from Colorado who goes and spends $50,000 more over 4 years at UCLA and returns to Colorado or Jose' from LA who gets his degree, his citizenship, starts a family in CA, pays his taxes in CA? In-state tuition is an investment by that state. It is better for CA to offer this financially than not."
I tend to think, honestly, that Joe from Colorado may be better, and here's why -- I'm sure there are stats on this that I don't have, but I intuitively would assume that a good portion of the out of state residents who move to CA to go to a university here actually end up staying here, working, and raising a family post-university schooling. In that sense, erecting a further barrier for a US citizen to come here would probably hurt CA in the long run if that individual chooses the Buffaloes instead of the Bruins (and who the hell in their right mind would want to do that?) That US citizen would for sure pay all of his taxes as well, which we cannot guarantee with Jose from LA.
Like I said above, I understand the rationale behind the law, I just think that something about it strikes me as inherently wrong to allow a reduced rate for a non-citizen (albeit a CA resident) as opposed to a citizen... then again, that's more an indictment of our broken immigration/naturalization process more than anything else. That's the real elephant in the room, everything else is just a symptom of that disease.
" Aren't all the anti-immigration arguments rooted in financial reasons? It isn't because people are opposed to the "darkening" of American skin right (maybe a tiny percentage)? It is the cost to American taxpayers. So here you are creating a situation to actually benefit the California taxpayer."
I don't think all anti-immigration arguments are rooted in financial reasons. A lot certainly are. There's clearly a definitive segment of the population for who the racial element to it is the pervading force. There's also a general sense of lawlessness with it that I think offends a lot of people.
To address this and Capt's post as well, go to CA school websites. The numbers are inversed. Of 20 out-of-state students in CA, 15 leave. Of 20 in-state, 15 remain. These are the numbers. Given those numbers, the overall benefit for CA is ensuring that students remain in-state and the chances are exponentially higher with current CA residents.
If one simply plays the numbers game, the idea is to keep as many residents in-state as possible. This law does that.
"So...2) (and to address Kap's statement) Which is better for CA...Joe from Colorado who goes and spends $50,000 more over 4 years at UCLA and returns to Colorado or Jose' from LA who gets his degree, his citizenship, starts a family in CA, pays his taxes in CA? In-state tuition is an investment by that state. It is better for CA to offer this financially than not."
I tend to think, honestly, that Joe from Colorado may be better, and here's why -- I'm sure there are stats on this that I don't have, but I intuitively would assume that a good portion of the out of state residents who move to CA to go to a university here actually end up staying here, working, and raising a family post-university schooling. In that sense, erecting a further barrier for a US citizen to come here would probably hurt CA in the long run if that individual chooses the Buffaloes instead of the Bruins (and who the hell in their right mind would want to do that?) That US citizen would for sure pay all of his taxes as well, which we cannot guarantee with Jose from LA.
Like I said above, I understand the rationale behind the law, I just think that something about it strikes me as inherently wrong to allow a reduced rate for a non-citizen (albeit a CA resident) as opposed to a citizen... then again, that's more an indictment of our broken immigration/naturalization process more than anything else. That's the real elephant in the room, everything else is just a symptom of that disease.
" Aren't all the anti-immigration arguments rooted in financial reasons? It isn't because people are opposed to the "darkening" of American skin right (maybe a tiny percentage)? It is the cost to American taxpayers. So here you are creating a situation to actually benefit the California taxpayer."
I don't think all anti-immigration arguments are rooted in financial reasons. A lot certainly are. There's clearly a definitive segment of the population for who the racial element to it is the pervading force. There's also a general sense of lawlessness with it that I think offends a lot of people.
To address this and Capt's post as well, go to CA school websites. The numbers are inversed. Of 20 out-of-state students in CA, 15 leave. Of 20 in-state, 15 remain. These are the numbers. Given those numbers, the overall benefit for CA is ensuring that students remain in-state and the chances are exponentially higher with current CA residents.
If one simply plays the numbers game, the idea is to keep as many residents in-state as possible. This law does that.
Ahh, the good captain shows up. At least we can have a decent discussion on the issue now. Actually, 100% of illegals pay taxes, or they would die. Is it your assertion that illegals with a college degree would not pay taxes? I see where you are going with this, but the facts work against that argument. 95% of the illegals obtaining a college degree are granted at least temporary citizenship. I would imagine even those that don't are still paying taxes, though. Higher income is equated to paying more in taxes, and lest we forget that somehow, they are earning enough or have enough to pay tuition.
Ahh, the good captain shows up. At least we can have a decent discussion on the issue now. Actually, 100% of illegals pay taxes, or they would die. Is it your assertion that illegals with a college degree would not pay taxes? I see where you are going with this, but the facts work against that argument. 95% of the illegals obtaining a college degree are granted at least temporary citizenship. I would imagine even those that don't are still paying taxes, though. Higher income is equated to paying more in taxes, and lest we forget that somehow, they are earning enough or have enough to pay tuition.
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Comments:
This kind of stuff is why over 90% of US Citizens have had enough of the whole illegal immigration mess. If nothing is done soon then we need to elect those that will do something, if the liberals manage to get amnesty for illegals I predict most Americans will have a major fit over it.
It is time to cut off the jobs, food stamps, free health care and the 10s of Billions sent back to Mexico every year from illegals working here.
If just these few things were done then you would reduce the deficit, unemployment and help our economy by making the income earned here stay here.
Why is this so hard to do, it's not rocket science, WAKE UP AMERICA AND DEMAND REAL CHANGE RIGHT NOW!!!