I often pick on Israel

How the United States Benefits from Its Alliance with Israel - Michael Eisenstadt and David Pollock (Washington Institute for Near East Policy)

• Many of the considerations that provided the rationale for the U.S.-Israel security relationship during the Cold War remain valid today. Israel is a bulwark against radical Islamism as embodied by Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad, and a quiet but effective ally of Jordan.
• U.S. military equipment pre-positioned in Israel, valued at nearly $1.2 billion, is available to support U.S. contingencies in the eastern Mediterranean and Persian Gulf. Israel continues to serve as a testing ground for advanced weapons and war-fighting concepts, many of which are eventually employed by the U.S.
• Today, Israeli intelligence remains a major source of information regarding Iran's nuclear program, Hizbullah's global activities, and the activities of al-Qaeda affiliates - and Israeli intelligence operations have helped delay Iran's nuclear program. Israel's comparative advantages include a sustained focus on key hard targets, the cultivation of unique sources and innovative methods, and a willingness to incur risk.
• There needs to be greater recognition that Israel not only benefits immensely from U.S. support, but also contributes significantly to U.S. interests. Israel's own strength and stability, along with its military, technological, and scientific achievements, enhance the U.S. ability to meet the security, economic, and development requirements (at home and abroad) that are increasingly essential to preserving American prosperity and leadership.

Its hardly neo-con to suggest that there are strategic reasons why the US might support Israel. Our policy for providing monetary, military, economic, or political support is grounded in numerous reasons and doctrines, one of which being the Haig/Reagan doctrine, for which much of our current support lies (act within our own interests). If anything, the recent political fallouts in the Arab world tell us that support of Israel is vital based on the security and continuation of the same government. One can look in the rear-view mirror and wonder about our past support for Egypt, Syria, Libya, etc. as to its long term benefits.

The main problem in these discussions with you is that you are unable to refocus on examining the issues from an objective standpoint by analyzing from a historica perspective. Surely, anyone can conceed that Israel has committed many mistakes and terrible acts (boarding and turning, rather than searching the ship for Gaza in October being a prime example). But a very basic comparison of the interplay of the Israelis and the Arabs suggests a more lopsided fundamental problem than your anti-Israeli/Jewish posts like to present.

I could post numerous responsive videos or articles. The idea is that each individual needs to analyze how facts are presented to obtain their own version of reality.

The argument that Israel is a liability is an ironic one. Often people will state that and blame our support of Israel for terrorism. I always cringe when this argument is raised. Couldn't the same thought process be used to suggest that our support for the allies led to our war with the axis?

To understand the current problems in the land dispute, one needs to look no further than the actual West Bank. Interestingly, people living there are far less concerned about the governance, and far more concerned with normal life. Yet, the Palestinians have stated specifically that they will uproot current towns and settlements. These are actual people that will have their lives shattered, and for what?

Your historical recitiation reads like a Palestinian dissertation. Truman's decisions were done so based on the large number of refugees who were unwelcomed in Europe and, yes, the US.  

But going back to your statement about strategic support....we have tried the strategic support for unstable countries..and watched Americans killed by US weapons and US dollars. This does not seem to work. To quote the Sopranos, we are forced to go all in, or not at all.

Again, we support plenty of wealthy countries. In that region, Israel is wealthy. And the most stable. And thus, in our strategic interest that they remain that way.

Funny, you cannot cite one unfounded claim. Not one. And the statement about Palestinian propaganda piece is quite self-evident.

You have taken a video with one very narrow perspective, you have stated that Truman solely supported Israel because of the holocaust, and your posts are consistantly critical of Israel.

I have made many statements (including in this thread) where I have been critical of certain actions of Israel. Can you say the same about Israel's enemies?

You continue to bring up the NPT and I can explain that having been there and by the Palestinians stated plans to the Jewish settlements in the area. Don't forget...I have been to thise settlements.

And yes, I understand that you believe it is far more important to provide military aid and money to unstable countries. I get that. I guess we will just disagree on that. Lucky for me, I have historical consequences as my backing.

My posts have been critical of Israel that doesn’t necessarily translate into a Palestinian propaganda piece. You’re deductive reasoning is astounding. My argument to reduce aid to Israel is based on a variety of components that are: Israel is no longer a strategic asset to the US, the moral case to support Israel with military and economic aid is no longer valid anymore as a majority of Americans overwhelmingly agree with this position, the Israeli’s mal treatment of the Palestinians, US politicians succumbing to Jewish interest groups that have are ALSO detrimental to Israeli’s interest’s to name a few…. So this is not limited to your simplistic version of me being anti-jewish.

This video is hardly a narrow perspective. These individuals are some of the most well respected men in international politics that this country has ever seen. And they seem to be some of the first scholars in this modern age to question this consistent deference of politicians in Washington toward granting aid to Israel. Are my posts constantly critical of Israel, sure… But are 14’s posts constantly critical of Obama, are canov’s posts constantly critical of Obama, are sarasotaslim’s posts constantly critical of Obama, are rush51’s posts constantly critical of Obama, are bowslits posts constantly critical of unions, are beeasy’s posts constantly critical of religion, are ricks posts constantly in support of less gun control, are cd’s posts constantly in favor of unions…. I could go on and on. There are many posters here who focus on one area of politics, how is that so damn shocking to you?? But I suppose you’ll argue that all of those individuals are able to think clearly about those topics, right and criticize both sides, right??

Still waiting for an honest keyed response from you that doesn’t involve any personal or condescending attacks regarding these comments I made…So you think that support for Israel plays no role in America's terrorism problem or the growing anti-Americanism in the Arab and Islamic World, and ending the Israeli-Palestinian conflict or making US support for Israel more selective or conditional  would not help??

I also never said that was Trumans support of the Israeli state was based SOLEY on the idea that the US should because of the holocaust. What do you think the purpose of helping refugees is, to help those individuals that were left in a very vulnerable situation due to the horror of the Nazis.  If you think that’s what I implied that Nixons support of the statehood of ISrael, then I’m sorry I mislead you there. But it certainly played a huge role.   And its just another way in which you’re unable to objectively understand that a few years later the US who rescued the Je ws from the Nazi’s couldn’t have possible supported Israel for this reason of sympathy. (sarcasm)…… Are you kidding me??

That’s funny, now you’ve decided to try and portray yourself as some kind of intelligence expert because you’ve been to Israel..Owww.. I’ve been to Israel twice so does that make me worthy of engaging in this discussion? My best friend is in fact jewish and I get into arguments with him about this topic all the time but he’s able to acknowledge that I raise some pressing concerns with regards to a variety of aspects in terms of aid and the US foreign policy agendas. So it’s okay for us to tell Iran not to research and obtain nuclear warheads yet we shouldn’t even do reports on the Israeli nuclear programs because if you think we do then you are horribly mistaken. The amount of leniency that our politicians grant to Israel in countless ways is frightening. Do you know why that is? Because of the strong influence of the Israel Lobby… Before you even try to discredit this idea. Let’s use some examples: can one engage in a discussion about guns without including the NRA in this discussion, no! Can one engage in a discussion about our relations with the Cuba without bringing up the Cuban interest groups, no…….. etc.. etc…

Again, your deductive reasoning is so awful. I’m absolutely flabbergasted.. How does my assertion that we should cut aid to Israel translate to giving money to unstable countries, if that’s what you’re asserting? I’m saying that we should keep a more even-handed approach and not favor one country over another in the Middle East. You can’t seem to grasp this level-headed argument that I’ve put forth. You still remain stuck in bringing up my long history of posting critical threads of Israel, and I think that you’re unable to view my posts in an objective lens rather than this post of mine  which is truly objective.

I have to give you props. It is hard to draft such a lengthy dissertation and not make one factual point. Not one. In fact, the only factual claim you made in your whole response is a complete lie.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/majority-of-americans-support-israels-operation-in-gaza/

https://www.timesofisrael.com/americans-support-for-israel-grows-in-wake-of-arab-spring-poll-reveals/

I know I know. Because you say it and think it, it must be true.

And obviously, any support of Israel must be a result of the Jewish lobby. I mean, all those Republican person have such influence and power. It couldn't at all be based on the strategic location of Israel, or the stablity of its government in such an unstable region.

And I understand your argument that we should have an even-handed approach to foreign policy. I mean, why should we favor Britain over Venezuela or Japan over North Korea? We should be even-handed to all. Or perhaps you are just suggesting as it relates to Israel and Iran? I wonder why you would make the distinction, I mean given that your best friend is Jewish and all. Why even say that? Do you feel guilty about your inner hatred of person?

Before you continue making ridiculous claims about US foreign policy, you should try and read a book on the reasons behind aid. I suggest something rudementary that would coincide with your limited understanding of how it works.

It's absolutely hysterical how you have not addressed one point of mine. I guess I now fully understand why steveshane has been so critical of you among others. You have not painted one broadly even reliable source that would assume you have any remote idea what it is you're asserting. You ought to stick to arguing your petty domestic policies with 14

First you made the claim that I am anti-Jewish, and then you went on to try and prove me Truman comment as wrong which it is actually so self-evidently true.  You blew off my NPT comment which is extremely important, you again discredited that any aid to Israel couldn’t possibly be fueling anti-Americanism which in fact it has and then you go on to say that “I can explain that having been there and by the Palestinians stated plans to the Jewish settlements in the area. Don't forget...I have been to these settlements.” So this supposed to be the focus your argument. You’re pathetic.

You're unable to debate with me because you're too caught up marginalizing my previous threads about how I've pointed out how Israel is grossly in violation of specific individual human rights, however this thread looks at the bigger picture and you simply discredit all of my points with a broad stroke of absolute bs...
US has provided upwards of 154 billions dollars most of which is direct grants not loans.  FACT.  Which equates to $500 per capita Egypt being the next recipient receiving $20 per person. FACT

https://pdf.usaid.gov/pdf_docs/PNADH500.pdf

Israel unilaterally declared statehood violating the UN partition that would declared two states. FACT

Israel expanded into more than 75% of Palestinian land engaging in ethnic cleansing and the UN  General Assembly  adopted resolution 194.... Israel again violated this and has never recognized the Palestinians refugees right to return...FACT

US has no oversight on the way in which Israel used this money we grant them. FACT

The Nixon/Kissinger strategy to back Israel which led to the US overlooking many attempts at peaceful opportunities with former Egyptian president Anwar Sadat tries to cut a deal in 1971-1972.  According to Secretary of State this agreement would have surely avoided the 1973 War.  FACT

https://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/3011393?uid=3739840&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21101710958537

UN General Assembly Resolution 59/124 "Israeli practices affecting human rights of Palestinian people" passed by a vote of 149-7.  Among the nations supported the resolution were Japan, Germany, France, China  and Great Britain. Those opposed Israel, Australia, Marshall Islands, the US and a couple others.....  FACT

Countless notable defense experts inside of Israel and at various institutions have pointed out that Israel is a strategic liability.  

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/48213/bernard-lewis/rethinking-the-middle-east

Yet you somehow think that the VAST array of civic organizations that attempt to push Israeli foreign policy NOT the US is small and unworthy? You’re saying not any of these groups have any influence at all?? AIPAC, IPF, ADL, ZOA etc..

Do you know anything about interest groups and their power??

Lastly it is hardly unpopular news that US backing for Israel is unpopular elsewhere in the world. People like yourself who think that Israel and the US are unified by a collective terrorist threat have the causal relationship backwards.  You can’t seem to grasp this basic idea.