i think HJS and i are essentially saying the same thing. she does havea right to free speech, although i'm not sure she has a right to free speech using a county facebook account which means the government probably could take action by taking whatever steps they have to remove people in her position assuming there is some county rule or policy that she violated. had she done it using a purely private account, i think it would be a free speech issue.
Well now she's backpeddling saying it wasn't her govt page and she didn't mean all Islam just the radical ones. Of course her actions have nothing to do with being a trump supporter and a big fan of Bachmann.
0
Quote Originally Posted by ClubDirt:
i think HJS and i are essentially saying the same thing. she does havea right to free speech, although i'm not sure she has a right to free speech using a county facebook account which means the government probably could take action by taking whatever steps they have to remove people in her position assuming there is some county rule or policy that she violated. had she done it using a purely private account, i think it would be a free speech issue.
Well now she's backpeddling saying it wasn't her govt page and she didn't mean all Islam just the radical ones. Of course her actions have nothing to do with being a trump supporter and a big fan of Bachmann.
Hugh, here is what the problem is. As a county commissioner she took an oath of office which includes upholding the constitution. She had two pages on fb 1 was personal the other was her official page as county commissioner. She chose to post her anti Islam rhetoric on her official page. So with her post she violated her oath. She can be impeached or the governor could just remove her. If it would have been posted on her personal page she would have been ok.
I failed to recognize it was not her personal FB page.
Unless they change her job description to "Tell Us How You Feel" her views should not be shared on company time, nor on company web pages
bigreds daddy
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Quote Originally Posted by darkhorse12:
Hugh, here is what the problem is. As a county commissioner she took an oath of office which includes upholding the constitution. She had two pages on fb 1 was personal the other was her official page as county commissioner. She chose to post her anti Islam rhetoric on her official page. So with her post she violated her oath. She can be impeached or the governor could just remove her. If it would have been posted on her personal page she would have been ok.
I failed to recognize it was not her personal FB page.
Unless they change her job description to "Tell Us How You Feel" her views should not be shared on company time, nor on company web pages
Well now she's backpeddling saying it wasn't her govt page and she didn't mean all Islam just the radical ones. Of course her actions have nothing to do with being a trump supporter and a big fan of Bachmann.
OK, if it was her personal page I am back to supporting her right to be an azzhole.
Regardless, she is just so meaningless that I don't understand why this is news
bigreds daddy
0
Quote Originally Posted by darkhorse12:
Well now she's backpeddling saying it wasn't her govt page and she didn't mean all Islam just the radical ones. Of course her actions have nothing to do with being a trump supporter and a big fan of Bachmann.
OK, if it was her personal page I am back to supporting her right to be an azzhole.
Regardless, she is just so meaningless that I don't understand why this is news
Not to justify in anyway what the county govt official did.. but let us
understand why this County Commissioner was against a Mosque in her
city .. back in Dec.an American man in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, has
been arrested for
providing conspiring and attempting to provide material support to the
ISIS terrorist organization.
Jalil Ibn Ameer Aziz, a U.S. citizen,in Harrisburg helped connect an Islamist agent along the Syria-Turkey border with
people trying to join the self-declared caliphate that controls swaths
of Syria and Iraq, according t o the FBI.....
Federal agents traced at least 57 extremist Twitter
accounts that operated beginning in July 2014 to the Fulton Street
house Aziz shares with his parents...Ameer Aziz attended the Hadee
Mosque in Harrisburg ..
Aziz is alleged to have posted a hyperlink containing the names,
addresses and other personal information of 100 reported U.S. military
members and calls for violence against them.
These Mosque continue to serve as breeding grounds for radical Islamic
terrorism organizations..we are obligated to protect their religious rights,but their Imams and their sermons need to be
put under constant surveillance...
This is just the start ..........the Obama administration is sprinkling Muslims all over the country most of which have not been vetted properly..want to look to the future ..just look to Europe ...
0
Not to justify in anyway what the county govt official did.. but let us
understand why this County Commissioner was against a Mosque in her
city .. back in Dec.an American man in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, has
been arrested for
providing conspiring and attempting to provide material support to the
ISIS terrorist organization.
Jalil Ibn Ameer Aziz, a U.S. citizen,in Harrisburg helped connect an Islamist agent along the Syria-Turkey border with
people trying to join the self-declared caliphate that controls swaths
of Syria and Iraq, according t o the FBI.....
Federal agents traced at least 57 extremist Twitter
accounts that operated beginning in July 2014 to the Fulton Street
house Aziz shares with his parents...Ameer Aziz attended the Hadee
Mosque in Harrisburg ..
Aziz is alleged to have posted a hyperlink containing the names,
addresses and other personal information of 100 reported U.S. military
members and calls for violence against them.
These Mosque continue to serve as breeding grounds for radical Islamic
terrorism organizations..we are obligated to protect their religious rights,but their Imams and their sermons need to be
put under constant surveillance...
This is just the start ..........the Obama administration is sprinkling Muslims all over the country most of which have not been vetted properly..want to look to the future ..just look to Europe ...
OK, if it was her personal page I am back to supporting her right to be an azzhole.
Regardless, she is just so meaningless that I don't understand why this is news
I actually found this to be pretty interesting from the stand point of the separation that a govt employee needs to have between the freedom of their own personal views and their role as some one who works on the government dime.
I think in this age of social media I am wondering if there were actual policies in place concerning personal conduct in his arena. I wouldn't be surprised tho if there was not as this is s pretty new issue. But there needs to be a clear line between when you are functioning as a private citizen or a govt employee paid for by tax dollars. I figure that concept is old and a policy should be in place.
I often think that govt employees need to have a higher level of professional conduct not only because they are paid by public money but from the stand point of vendors and contracts. It is important that government employees don't show favoritism but also that they make decisions on vendors and contracts by the book and not based on who might have the same religion or political beliefs.
It is an interesting duality of personal freedom of expression and beliefs that is an American right but also the fact as an government employee the individual has to take on the role of not talking about or promoting a religion, policies point of view or showing any type of bias or favoritism.
0
Quote Originally Posted by Hugh_Jorgan:
OK, if it was her personal page I am back to supporting her right to be an azzhole.
Regardless, she is just so meaningless that I don't understand why this is news
I actually found this to be pretty interesting from the stand point of the separation that a govt employee needs to have between the freedom of their own personal views and their role as some one who works on the government dime.
I think in this age of social media I am wondering if there were actual policies in place concerning personal conduct in his arena. I wouldn't be surprised tho if there was not as this is s pretty new issue. But there needs to be a clear line between when you are functioning as a private citizen or a govt employee paid for by tax dollars. I figure that concept is old and a policy should be in place.
I often think that govt employees need to have a higher level of professional conduct not only because they are paid by public money but from the stand point of vendors and contracts. It is important that government employees don't show favoritism but also that they make decisions on vendors and contracts by the book and not based on who might have the same religion or political beliefs.
It is an interesting duality of personal freedom of expression and beliefs that is an American right but also the fact as an government employee the individual has to take on the role of not talking about or promoting a religion, policies point of view or showing any type of bias or favoritism.
Another interesting situation would be if she wanted to give testimony to the legislative branch while they were in session. As a private a citizen she has the right to say what ever she wants. This is her right to exercise.
But in the professional role and capacity one she uses her professional government title or were to use letter head of stationary from her office she then represents the branch or office that she came from. And she would only be able to express the views that were vetted by her branch and/or the AG or who ever is above her as the official position of her office.
I would think that this is clearly stated in policy with what that dividing line is. The problem with what she did is that she makes her personal opinions look like the official opinions of her office or branch or wherever she is from.
This might a problem with digital and socia media where people have a disconnect that normal rules of life no longer apply and people can say whatever they want with out consequence. It would be interesting to see if there were actually policies in place concerning what she did and she knowingly violated them, or if the policies were in place and she was just Ignorant to them, or if there actually were no policies in place around social media use and she just lacked the basic common sense and logic needed to make the right choice but did not actually violate anything formal.
0
Another interesting situation would be if she wanted to give testimony to the legislative branch while they were in session. As a private a citizen she has the right to say what ever she wants. This is her right to exercise.
But in the professional role and capacity one she uses her professional government title or were to use letter head of stationary from her office she then represents the branch or office that she came from. And she would only be able to express the views that were vetted by her branch and/or the AG or who ever is above her as the official position of her office.
I would think that this is clearly stated in policy with what that dividing line is. The problem with what she did is that she makes her personal opinions look like the official opinions of her office or branch or wherever she is from.
This might a problem with digital and socia media where people have a disconnect that normal rules of life no longer apply and people can say whatever they want with out consequence. It would be interesting to see if there were actually policies in place concerning what she did and she knowingly violated them, or if the policies were in place and she was just Ignorant to them, or if there actually were no policies in place around social media use and she just lacked the basic common sense and logic needed to make the right choice but did not actually violate anything formal.
Well now she's backpeddling saying it wasn't her govt page and she didn't mean all Islam just the radical ones. Of course her actions have nothing to do with being a trump supporter and a big fan of Bachmann.
The back peddling is weird. If she messed up because she violated the policy or the rules of conduct, that should be the issue. The fact that she is emabarassed by her own views and trying to reexplain them or change them seems like she is missing the point here.
The problem is not her views. She should be proud of her views. She did not seem embarassed prior to portraying like these were the official views of her office or branch. If she was emabarassed she wouldn't be flooding her Twitter account with this rhetoric or posting this on a public social media account for the whole world to see. Obviously she was proud of her choice to subscribe to the trump campaigns talking points and wanted everyone to know.
So why back peddle now? Because there might be an audience of people that aren't just ones that she can preach to the choir? Not sure what she is doing at this point, but she is probably emotional, distraught, confused and having a meltdown and not making sense.
Perhaps what it does is question her ability to carry out her professional position in an appropriate manner as a civil servant that works for the good of all citizens. Not just Christian ones or those that agree with her seemingly extermist views (altho one can argue and currently common place). So the back peddling is out of fear and pure self preservation as her actions coupled with what she was saying and supporting really puts her intergrity out there to be questioned. Would you trust this individual to work for fairly everyone in the best interest of all citizens regardless of religion, race, sexual orientation, gender, political views, etc
Some people belong in the private sector where they can do what ever they want as their own boss. Or if they work for someone else can be easily fired for appearing represent her employer and communicated her personally selected propaganda, damaging their image. Getting rid of her would be pure damage control from a financial standpoint. Govt doesn't work like that tho
0
Quote Originally Posted by darkhorse12:
Well now she's backpeddling saying it wasn't her govt page and she didn't mean all Islam just the radical ones. Of course her actions have nothing to do with being a trump supporter and a big fan of Bachmann.
The back peddling is weird. If she messed up because she violated the policy or the rules of conduct, that should be the issue. The fact that she is emabarassed by her own views and trying to reexplain them or change them seems like she is missing the point here.
The problem is not her views. She should be proud of her views. She did not seem embarassed prior to portraying like these were the official views of her office or branch. If she was emabarassed she wouldn't be flooding her Twitter account with this rhetoric or posting this on a public social media account for the whole world to see. Obviously she was proud of her choice to subscribe to the trump campaigns talking points and wanted everyone to know.
So why back peddle now? Because there might be an audience of people that aren't just ones that she can preach to the choir? Not sure what she is doing at this point, but she is probably emotional, distraught, confused and having a meltdown and not making sense.
Perhaps what it does is question her ability to carry out her professional position in an appropriate manner as a civil servant that works for the good of all citizens. Not just Christian ones or those that agree with her seemingly extermist views (altho one can argue and currently common place). So the back peddling is out of fear and pure self preservation as her actions coupled with what she was saying and supporting really puts her intergrity out there to be questioned. Would you trust this individual to work for fairly everyone in the best interest of all citizens regardless of religion, race, sexual orientation, gender, political views, etc
Some people belong in the private sector where they can do what ever they want as their own boss. Or if they work for someone else can be easily fired for appearing represent her employer and communicated her personally selected propaganda, damaging their image. Getting rid of her would be pure damage control from a financial standpoint. Govt doesn't work like that tho
Not to justify in anyway what the county govt official did.. but let us understand why this County Commissioner was against a Mosque in her city .. back in Dec.an American man in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, has been arrested for providing conspiring and attempting to provide material support to the ISIS terrorist organization.
Jalil Ibn Ameer Aziz, a U.S. citizen,in Harrisburg helped connect an Islamist agent along the Syria-Turkey border with people trying to join the self-declared caliphate that controls swaths of Syria and Iraq, according t o the FBI.....
Federal agents traced at least 57 extremist Twitter accounts that operated beginning in July 2014 to the Fulton Street house Aziz shares with his parents...Ameer Aziz attended the Hadee Mosque in Harrisburg ..
Aziz is alleged to have posted a hyperlink containing the names, addresses and other personal information of 100 reported U.S. military members and calls for violence against them.
These Mosque continue to serve as breeding grounds for radical Islamic terrorism organizations..we are obligated to protect their religious rights,but their Imams and their sermons need to be put under constant surveillance...
This is just the start ..........the Obama administration is sprinkling Muslims all over the country most of which have not been vetted properly..want to look to the future ..just look to Europe ...
Slim bottom line is she is a nutjob and this is how she is.
0
Quote Originally Posted by SarasotaSlim:
Not to justify in anyway what the county govt official did.. but let us understand why this County Commissioner was against a Mosque in her city .. back in Dec.an American man in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, has been arrested for providing conspiring and attempting to provide material support to the ISIS terrorist organization.
Jalil Ibn Ameer Aziz, a U.S. citizen,in Harrisburg helped connect an Islamist agent along the Syria-Turkey border with people trying to join the self-declared caliphate that controls swaths of Syria and Iraq, according t o the FBI.....
Federal agents traced at least 57 extremist Twitter accounts that operated beginning in July 2014 to the Fulton Street house Aziz shares with his parents...Ameer Aziz attended the Hadee Mosque in Harrisburg ..
Aziz is alleged to have posted a hyperlink containing the names, addresses and other personal information of 100 reported U.S. military members and calls for violence against them.
These Mosque continue to serve as breeding grounds for radical Islamic terrorism organizations..we are obligated to protect their religious rights,but their Imams and their sermons need to be put under constant surveillance...
This is just the start ..........the Obama administration is sprinkling Muslims all over the country most of which have not been vetted properly..want to look to the future ..just look to Europe ...
Slim bottom line is she is a nutjob and this is how she is.
Sara's consistent and persistent antics to derail and detract from the civil conversation at baffling. Even more baffling is why the people in charge want the forum to be this way.
When you say she is a nutjob, is it because of her beliefs, choice of conduct or both?
You have seen my analysis and disucssion of the this interesting topic,it is complicated with many layers. Such a meaty and fascinating topic that you have brought to forum. Thank you.
0
Darkhorse,
Sara's consistent and persistent antics to derail and detract from the civil conversation at baffling. Even more baffling is why the people in charge want the forum to be this way.
When you say she is a nutjob, is it because of her beliefs, choice of conduct or both?
You have seen my analysis and disucssion of the this interesting topic,it is complicated with many layers. Such a meaty and fascinating topic that you have brought to forum. Thank you.
Sara's consistent and persistent antics to derail and detract from the civil conversation at baffling. Even more baffling is why the people in charge want the forum to be this way.
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Quote Originally Posted by dl36:
Sara's consistent and persistent antics to derail and detract from the civil conversation at baffling. Even more baffling is why the people in charge want the forum to be this way.
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Was just wondering what some of the consequences could be? Maybe some of the smarter posters like DJ ,DL, BWS and Club Dirt could shed some light on this.
I'm sorry I missed answering the question. The direct consequences could be suspension from her job or termination. Indirect consequences could be around her image and now lack of creditbility to serve in her government position. It would effect her ability to get elected altho in this day and age, who knows, people who agree with her views might see that agreement as more important than ethical and appropriate behavior.
The sad truth in government is that consequence would be to get her out of her current position to curb the backlash from the public and promote her. This wouldn't happen on the private sector that would probably just fire her for misrepresenting the company and tarnishing their image resulting in a loss of revenue or at least for acting so irresponsibly and allowing her emotional personal views to transcend the common sense of being professional. But in government you never know
0
Quote Originally Posted by darkhorse12:
Was just wondering what some of the consequences could be? Maybe some of the smarter posters like DJ ,DL, BWS and Club Dirt could shed some light on this.
I'm sorry I missed answering the question. The direct consequences could be suspension from her job or termination. Indirect consequences could be around her image and now lack of creditbility to serve in her government position. It would effect her ability to get elected altho in this day and age, who knows, people who agree with her views might see that agreement as more important than ethical and appropriate behavior.
The sad truth in government is that consequence would be to get her out of her current position to curb the backlash from the public and promote her. This wouldn't happen on the private sector that would probably just fire her for misrepresenting the company and tarnishing their image resulting in a loss of revenue or at least for acting so irresponsibly and allowing her emotional personal views to transcend the common sense of being professional. But in government you never know
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