There’s a saying that goes, “If you’re going to pee in the pool, at least don’t do it from the diving board”. Rich people have always influenced American politics, some of them to an alarming degree, but they’ve all made at least a nominal effort to be discreet about it. What Musk is doing by letting it all hang out in the open.I am looking at the right-wingers in power right now, and “discreet” is definitely not a word I would use. When do the people realize this may be taking it a step too far.
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To remove first post, remove entire topic.
There’s a saying that goes, “If you’re going to pee in the pool, at least don’t do it from the diving board”. Rich people have always influenced American politics, some of them to an alarming degree, but they’ve all made at least a nominal effort to be discreet about it. What Musk is doing by letting it all hang out in the open.I am looking at the right-wingers in power right now, and “discreet” is definitely not a word I would use. When do the people realize this may be taking it a step too far.
There’s a saying that goes, “If you’re going to pee in the pool, at least don’t do it from the diving board”. Rich people have always influenced American politics, some of them to an alarming degree, but they’ve all made at least a nominal effort to be discreet about it. What Musk is doing by letting it all hang out in the open.I am looking at the right-wingers in power right now, and “discreet” is definitely not a word I would use. When do the people realize this may be taking it a step too far.
Yep. The trump-authoritarian destruction tour has begun...
It's wrong for it to happen like this of course. That much is obvious.
BUT.....because intelligent people oppose that stupidity, guess what?!...the MAGAs across the nation will now automatically and fully embrace it!
All hail President Musk!
3
Quote Originally Posted by joe pockets:
There’s a saying that goes, “If you’re going to pee in the pool, at least don’t do it from the diving board”. Rich people have always influenced American politics, some of them to an alarming degree, but they’ve all made at least a nominal effort to be discreet about it. What Musk is doing by letting it all hang out in the open.I am looking at the right-wingers in power right now, and “discreet” is definitely not a word I would use. When do the people realize this may be taking it a step too far.
Yep. The trump-authoritarian destruction tour has begun...
It's wrong for it to happen like this of course. That much is obvious.
BUT.....because intelligent people oppose that stupidity, guess what?!...the MAGAs across the nation will now automatically and fully embrace it!
Musk has no EV company without ZIRP, carbon credits and federal tax freebies. Do a teeny bit of research and understand that without the debt spending of the federal government, Tesla never makes it and EV would be still limping along probably by a company like Fisker or Nissan/Toyota.
Musk is the last person in this country that should be complaining about the government, the taxpayer and debt holder has created BILLIONS in net worth for Musk.
1
@unplucked_gem
Cute..
Musk has no EV company without ZIRP, carbon credits and federal tax freebies. Do a teeny bit of research and understand that without the debt spending of the federal government, Tesla never makes it and EV would be still limping along probably by a company like Fisker or Nissan/Toyota.
Musk is the last person in this country that should be complaining about the government, the taxpayer and debt holder has created BILLIONS in net worth for Musk.
@unplucked_gem Cute.. Musk has no EV company without ZIRP, carbon credits and federal tax freebies. Do a teeny bit of research and understand that without the debt spending of the federal government, Tesla never makes it and EV would be still limping along probably by a company like Fisker or Nissan/Toyota. Musk is the last person in this country that should be complaining about the government, the taxpayer and debt holder has created BILLIONS in net worth for Musk.
NO, Congress, The Government, has forced the taxpayer to pay for many things that enriched many. Musk took advantage of basically a bad idea and waste of money by our government.
That's why the political party that was in control no longer is.
0
Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:
@unplucked_gem Cute.. Musk has no EV company without ZIRP, carbon credits and federal tax freebies. Do a teeny bit of research and understand that without the debt spending of the federal government, Tesla never makes it and EV would be still limping along probably by a company like Fisker or Nissan/Toyota. Musk is the last person in this country that should be complaining about the government, the taxpayer and debt holder has created BILLIONS in net worth for Musk.
NO, Congress, The Government, has forced the taxpayer to pay for many things that enriched many. Musk took advantage of basically a bad idea and waste of money by our government.
That's why the political party that was in control no longer is.
Musk is still taking advantage. Go look at their last quarterly statement and see how much of his profits came from fake carbon credits? Tesla has no reason to be given carbon credits since they are not a car maker who falls under the guidelines for why it was first created. If anything companies like Ford or Nissan or Toyota etc who do both gas and electric and hybrid should participate, NOT Tesla. Its a total ripoff scam to the taxpayer, the fact that Tesla profits between 25-60% of their profits off selling carbon credits is taxpayer theft period...then add the federal tax credits he has pocketed BILLIONS and then add ZIRP, if anything Musk needs to shut his trap about how inefficient and bloated the government is. Without the bloat he is pitching mutual funds to retirees.
3
@UNIMAN
Musk is still taking advantage. Go look at their last quarterly statement and see how much of his profits came from fake carbon credits? Tesla has no reason to be given carbon credits since they are not a car maker who falls under the guidelines for why it was first created. If anything companies like Ford or Nissan or Toyota etc who do both gas and electric and hybrid should participate, NOT Tesla. Its a total ripoff scam to the taxpayer, the fact that Tesla profits between 25-60% of their profits off selling carbon credits is taxpayer theft period...then add the federal tax credits he has pocketed BILLIONS and then add ZIRP, if anything Musk needs to shut his trap about how inefficient and bloated the government is. Without the bloat he is pitching mutual funds to retirees.
This thread isn't about how Elon Musk amassed his fortune though. It's about his perceived influence on policy. Again, my question is, "What exactly has he influenced, and how does he benefited from said influence?
This thread is just the latest left hyperbolic conjecture. What value does this thread add? Is it something to be debated? The OP is correct in that this country has been a corporate oligarchy for some time. This is true regardless of what party is in power. If the OP pointed to a specific item of legislation, specific policy, that benefits Elon Musk and/or his ilk, and then drew a durect line correlating Musk and said policy, then the thread would be saying something. If Musk pushed changes to the current spending bill to benefit himself and/or his cohorts, we would have something to talk about. That's not the case though. This thread is pointless.
R.I.P. #94 MARSHAWN KNEELAND - DC4L
2
@wallstreetcappers
This thread isn't about how Elon Musk amassed his fortune though. It's about his perceived influence on policy. Again, my question is, "What exactly has he influenced, and how does he benefited from said influence?
This thread is just the latest left hyperbolic conjecture. What value does this thread add? Is it something to be debated? The OP is correct in that this country has been a corporate oligarchy for some time. This is true regardless of what party is in power. If the OP pointed to a specific item of legislation, specific policy, that benefits Elon Musk and/or his ilk, and then drew a durect line correlating Musk and said policy, then the thread would be saying something. If Musk pushed changes to the current spending bill to benefit himself and/or his cohorts, we would have something to talk about. That's not the case though. This thread is pointless.
@StumpTownStu Trump is still 30 days from taking office and already the sky is falling. Talk is cheap, let's see what gets done and then complain or applaud.
Exactly. All i've heard is, "He's going to target his enemies! He's going to target the press! Elon Musk is running the country! The sky is falling!!!"
Let's see. The man hasn't taken office. Let's see something before making panic threads.
R.I.P. #94 MARSHAWN KNEELAND - DC4L
2
Quote Originally Posted by UNIMAN:
@StumpTownStu Trump is still 30 days from taking office and already the sky is falling. Talk is cheap, let's see what gets done and then complain or applaud.
Exactly. All i've heard is, "He's going to target his enemies! He's going to target the press! Elon Musk is running the country! The sky is falling!!!"
Let's see. The man hasn't taken office. Let's see something before making panic threads.
Musk and Trump fiasco in derailing bipartisan spending bill is a preview of chaos in the future. There are direct conflicts between Musk businesses and government interest. He isn't the right person to head a congress spending debate. In social media, Musk makes false claims that reveal his ignorance of politics. When the super rich hijacks government, policies would favor them more over most Americans. Concentrated economic power threatens quality of life and functioning of democracy. No accident that US suffers from high rates of infant mortality and crime. Shorter life expectancy. Low rates of social mobility and political participation. Polls show most Americans believe billionaires are creating a more unfair society.
1
Musk and Trump fiasco in derailing bipartisan spending bill is a preview of chaos in the future. There are direct conflicts between Musk businesses and government interest. He isn't the right person to head a congress spending debate. In social media, Musk makes false claims that reveal his ignorance of politics. When the super rich hijacks government, policies would favor them more over most Americans. Concentrated economic power threatens quality of life and functioning of democracy. No accident that US suffers from high rates of infant mortality and crime. Shorter life expectancy. Low rates of social mobility and political participation. Polls show most Americans believe billionaires are creating a more unfair society.
Another hyperbolic thread started by someone on the left. @joe pockets What specifically are you referring to by, "What Musk is doing by letting it all hang out in the open."? What apecific action has you worried?
Musk gave million's to Trump’s campaign (no doubt in exchange for for tax cuts for billionaires) and has threatened elected Republicans. In case you haven’t noticed, Republicans who disagree with Trump find a MAGA candidate running against them in the next Primary!
Musk can afford to be so brazen because no Republican political figure is going to speak against him, and even if he were violating FEC regulations Musk regularly thumbs his nose at regulatory agencies (even going so far as to engage in a campaign of vengeful persecution against individual lawyers even after they have left federal service) and gets his way, at most paying a comparatively tiny fine to get away with rule breaking.
This is, of course, the way that autocrats and their boosters subvert democratic societies in a perfectly ‘legitimate’ way to take over absolute political control. That an odious, deceitful, petty, mercurial, thin-skinned, shithead person like Elon Musk can engage in this and not only get away with it but still be fêted by his legions of fawning voteries absolutely convinced of his self-professed genius (he is not) and boosted by the President-Elect as his “Best Buddy” and given control over an as-yet non-existent executive agency for which he has already been formulating nonsensical and ill-informed policy, and very few people in the media are either willing or sufficiently uneducated to object that this is exactly the way fascist regimes take power is as alarming as anything Trump himself has said or done. This is anti-democratic to the core. But…not illegal, which, in the minds of some people, means that there is nothing to be done about openly hijacking the democratic electoral process by (legal) intimidation and bullying.
Now more then ever a constitutional amendment that limits campaign financing, and addresses other corruption issues, is the only possible solution. But course, such an amendment is virtually impossible in an environment in which Elon is openly buying politicians, and so the very people we’d need to pass this are running scared of him!…….Is that better in explaining my problems with Musk living in Trumps head ?
0
Quote Originally Posted by StumpTownStu:
Another hyperbolic thread started by someone on the left. @joe pockets What specifically are you referring to by, "What Musk is doing by letting it all hang out in the open."? What apecific action has you worried?
Musk gave million's to Trump’s campaign (no doubt in exchange for for tax cuts for billionaires) and has threatened elected Republicans. In case you haven’t noticed, Republicans who disagree with Trump find a MAGA candidate running against them in the next Primary!
Musk can afford to be so brazen because no Republican political figure is going to speak against him, and even if he were violating FEC regulations Musk regularly thumbs his nose at regulatory agencies (even going so far as to engage in a campaign of vengeful persecution against individual lawyers even after they have left federal service) and gets his way, at most paying a comparatively tiny fine to get away with rule breaking.
This is, of course, the way that autocrats and their boosters subvert democratic societies in a perfectly ‘legitimate’ way to take over absolute political control. That an odious, deceitful, petty, mercurial, thin-skinned, shithead person like Elon Musk can engage in this and not only get away with it but still be fêted by his legions of fawning voteries absolutely convinced of his self-professed genius (he is not) and boosted by the President-Elect as his “Best Buddy” and given control over an as-yet non-existent executive agency for which he has already been formulating nonsensical and ill-informed policy, and very few people in the media are either willing or sufficiently uneducated to object that this is exactly the way fascist regimes take power is as alarming as anything Trump himself has said or done. This is anti-democratic to the core. But…not illegal, which, in the minds of some people, means that there is nothing to be done about openly hijacking the democratic electoral process by (legal) intimidation and bullying.
Now more then ever a constitutional amendment that limits campaign financing, and addresses other corruption issues, is the only possible solution. But course, such an amendment is virtually impossible in an environment in which Elon is openly buying politicians, and so the very people we’d need to pass this are running scared of him!…….Is that better in explaining my problems with Musk living in Trumps head ?
Quote Originally Posted by UNIMAN: @StumpTownStu Trump is still 30 days from taking office and already the sky is falling. Talk is cheap, let's see what gets done and then complain or applaud. Exactly. All i've heard is, "He's going to target his enemies! He's going to target the press! Elon Musk is running the country! The sky is falling!!!" Let's see. The man hasn't taken office. Let's see something before making panic threads.
When was the last time one person spent 250 million dollars on a Presidential election and then openly supervised his “ owned “ pigeons in the congress and senate on a spending bill?
0
Quote Originally Posted by StumpTownStu:
Quote Originally Posted by UNIMAN: @StumpTownStu Trump is still 30 days from taking office and already the sky is falling. Talk is cheap, let's see what gets done and then complain or applaud. Exactly. All i've heard is, "He's going to target his enemies! He's going to target the press! Elon Musk is running the country! The sky is falling!!!" Let's see. The man hasn't taken office. Let's see something before making panic threads.
When was the last time one person spent 250 million dollars on a Presidential election and then openly supervised his “ owned “ pigeons in the congress and senate on a spending bill?
@StumpTownStu Yeah if true at least we'd know who's running things. Lefties are bonkers, literally an entire administration run in the shadows but they're mad about the guy who actually made electric vehicles work and went to space dumped them.
General Motors had an electric car EV1 that was loved by everyone who tested it! Then took everyone of then back ? I’ll leave that to right wing conspirators here!
0
Quote Originally Posted by unplucked_gem:
@StumpTownStu Yeah if true at least we'd know who's running things. Lefties are bonkers, literally an entire administration run in the shadows but they're mad about the guy who actually made electric vehicles work and went to space dumped them.
General Motors had an electric car EV1 that was loved by everyone who tested it! Then took everyone of then back ? I’ll leave that to right wing conspirators here!
Musk gave million's to Trump’s campaign (no doubt in exchange for for tax cuts for billionaires) and has threatened elected Republicans. In case you haven’t noticed, Republicans who disagree with Trump find a MAGA candidate running against them in the next Primary!
Musk can afford to be so brazen because no Republican political figure is going to speak against him, and even if he were violating FEC regulations Musk regularly thumbs his nose at regulatory agencies (even going so far as to engage in a campaign of vengeful persecution against individual lawyers even after they have left federal service) and gets his way, at most paying a comparatively tiny fine to get away with rule breaking.
This is, of course, the way that autocrats and their boosters subvert democratic societies in a perfectly ‘legitimate’ way to take over absolute political control. That an odious, deceitful, petty, mercurial, thin-skinned, shithead person like Elon Musk can engage in this and not only get away with it but still be fêted by his legions of fawning voteries absolutely convinced of his self-professed genius (he is not) and boosted by the President-Elect as his “Best Buddy” and given control over an as-yet non-existent executive agency for which he has already been formulating nonsensical and ill-informed policy, and very few people in the media are either willing or sufficiently uneducated to object that this is exactly the way fascist regimes take power is as alarming as anything Trump himself has said or done. This is anti-democratic to the core. But…not illegal, which, in the minds of some people, means that there is nothing to be done about openly hijacking the democratic electoral process by (legal) intimidation and bullying.
This is a direct quote. I would put it in quotations or boldface so folks do not think it is from you.
But did you see the question that this was 'addressing'? Do you really think this was a good answer to that question?
The guy just went on a rant and called Musk all sorts of invectives.
The issue became more his issue with 'wealth inequality.
His reply could have been much more streamlined on the point without all of that.
0
@joe pockets
Musk gave million's to Trump’s campaign (no doubt in exchange for for tax cuts for billionaires) and has threatened elected Republicans. In case you haven’t noticed, Republicans who disagree with Trump find a MAGA candidate running against them in the next Primary!
Musk can afford to be so brazen because no Republican political figure is going to speak against him, and even if he were violating FEC regulations Musk regularly thumbs his nose at regulatory agencies (even going so far as to engage in a campaign of vengeful persecution against individual lawyers even after they have left federal service) and gets his way, at most paying a comparatively tiny fine to get away with rule breaking.
This is, of course, the way that autocrats and their boosters subvert democratic societies in a perfectly ‘legitimate’ way to take over absolute political control. That an odious, deceitful, petty, mercurial, thin-skinned, shithead person like Elon Musk can engage in this and not only get away with it but still be fêted by his legions of fawning voteries absolutely convinced of his self-professed genius (he is not) and boosted by the President-Elect as his “Best Buddy” and given control over an as-yet non-existent executive agency for which he has already been formulating nonsensical and ill-informed policy, and very few people in the media are either willing or sufficiently uneducated to object that this is exactly the way fascist regimes take power is as alarming as anything Trump himself has said or done. This is anti-democratic to the core. But…not illegal, which, in the minds of some people, means that there is nothing to be done about openly hijacking the democratic electoral process by (legal) intimidation and bullying.
This is a direct quote. I would put it in quotations or boldface so folks do not think it is from you.
But did you see the question that this was 'addressing'? Do you really think this was a good answer to that question?
The guy just went on a rant and called Musk all sorts of invectives.
The issue became more his issue with 'wealth inequality.
His reply could have been much more streamlined on the point without all of that.
Quote Originally Posted by StumpTownStu: Quote Originally Posted by UNIMAN: @StumpTownStu Trump is still 30 days from taking office and already the sky is falling. Talk is cheap, let's see what gets done and then complain or applaud. Exactly. All i've heard is, "He's going to target his enemies! He's going to target the press! Elon Musk is running the country! The sky is falling!!!" Let's see. The man hasn't taken office. Let's see something before making panic threads. When was the last time one person spent 250 million dollars on a Presidential election and then openly supervised his “ owned “ pigeons in the congress and senate on a spending bill?
How big is $708 million a year in American politics? Well, the Democratic National Committee and the Republican National Committee combined took two years, 2017 and 2018, to raise $502 million. Or compare Soros’s $708 million to the giving done in 2018 by libertarian billionaire Charles Koch’s namesake foundation: $128 million.
George Soros is the most prominent among American billionaires who have injected a record $880 million on the US midterm elections. While the majority of their donations favour the Republicans, Soros has contributed $128 million to Democrats.
There is never pushback from Leftists when it is being done on their side. It has been going on on both sides for a while. It has gotten out of hand and there should be something done. I agree about that.
But look at the tremendous money that came in for Biden and Harris. The overwhelming number of those richer folks want their 'agenda' followed I would imagine.
There was a good idea the other day on a guy suggested it be government spending and limited for elections, etc. That way each candidate has a certain amoutnof election money to use and when it is spent, it is spent, etc. More detailed than that.
But maybe something to consider, maybe.
0
@joe pockets
Quote Originally Posted by joe pockets:
Quote Originally Posted by StumpTownStu: Quote Originally Posted by UNIMAN: @StumpTownStu Trump is still 30 days from taking office and already the sky is falling. Talk is cheap, let's see what gets done and then complain or applaud. Exactly. All i've heard is, "He's going to target his enemies! He's going to target the press! Elon Musk is running the country! The sky is falling!!!" Let's see. The man hasn't taken office. Let's see something before making panic threads. When was the last time one person spent 250 million dollars on a Presidential election and then openly supervised his “ owned “ pigeons in the congress and senate on a spending bill?
How big is $708 million a year in American politics? Well, the Democratic National Committee and the Republican National Committee combined took two years, 2017 and 2018, to raise $502 million. Or compare Soros’s $708 million to the giving done in 2018 by libertarian billionaire Charles Koch’s namesake foundation: $128 million.
George Soros is the most prominent among American billionaires who have injected a record $880 million on the US midterm elections. While the majority of their donations favour the Republicans, Soros has contributed $128 million to Democrats.
There is never pushback from Leftists when it is being done on their side. It has been going on on both sides for a while. It has gotten out of hand and there should be something done. I agree about that.
But look at the tremendous money that came in for Biden and Harris. The overwhelming number of those richer folks want their 'agenda' followed I would imagine.
There was a good idea the other day on a guy suggested it be government spending and limited for elections, etc. That way each candidate has a certain amoutnof election money to use and when it is spent, it is spent, etc. More detailed than that.
@joe pockets Quote Originally Posted by joe pockets: Quote Originally Posted by StumpTownStu: Quote Originally Posted by UNIMAN: @StumpTownStu Trump is still 30 days from taking office and already the sky is falling. Talk is cheap, let's see what gets done and then complain or applaud. Exactly. All i've heard is, "He's going to target his enemies! He's going to target the press! Elon Musk is running the country! The sky is falling!!!" Let's see. The man hasn't taken office. Let's see something before making panic threads. When was the last time one person spent 250 million dollars on a Presidential election and then openly supervised his “ owned “ pigeons in the congress and senate on a spending bill? How big is $708 million a year in American politics? Well, the Democratic National Committee and the Republican National Committee combined took two years, 2017 and 2018, to raise $502 million. Or compare Soros’s $708 million to the giving done in 2018 by libertarian billionaire Charles Koch’s namesake foundation: $128 million. George Soros is the most prominent among American billionaires who have injected a record $880 million on the US midterm elections. While the majority of their donations favour the Republicans, Soros has contributed $128 million to Democrats. There is never pushback from Leftists when it is being done on their side. It has been going on on both sides for a while. It has gotten out of hand and there should be something done. I agree about that. But look at the tremendous money that came in for Biden and Harris. The overwhelming number of those richer folks want their 'agenda' followed I would imagine. There was a good idea the other day on a guy suggested it be government spending and limited for elections, etc. That way each candidate has a certain amoutnof election money to use and when it is spent, it is spent, etc. More detailed than that. But maybe something to consider, maybe.
1) The Democrats don’t have there 260 million dollar benefactor sitting in there President sky box or openly telling the elected officials they will be primary elimination if they don’t sit down shut up and vote for what he a private citizen wants!….And why ? Because his kind of money can ruin there career and Trumps pigeons will pull the trigger! You comparison of Soros & Musks muscle in politics doesn’t flush ! George is not in Musks league, Musk is in his own universe regarding wealth that was created in some degree by government subsidies and seems to have forgotten that! ….The robber barons have returned on steroids Raider 22 and you know it ! Hopefully so will Unions !
0
Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:
@joe pockets Quote Originally Posted by joe pockets: Quote Originally Posted by StumpTownStu: Quote Originally Posted by UNIMAN: @StumpTownStu Trump is still 30 days from taking office and already the sky is falling. Talk is cheap, let's see what gets done and then complain or applaud. Exactly. All i've heard is, "He's going to target his enemies! He's going to target the press! Elon Musk is running the country! The sky is falling!!!" Let's see. The man hasn't taken office. Let's see something before making panic threads. When was the last time one person spent 250 million dollars on a Presidential election and then openly supervised his “ owned “ pigeons in the congress and senate on a spending bill? How big is $708 million a year in American politics? Well, the Democratic National Committee and the Republican National Committee combined took two years, 2017 and 2018, to raise $502 million. Or compare Soros’s $708 million to the giving done in 2018 by libertarian billionaire Charles Koch’s namesake foundation: $128 million. George Soros is the most prominent among American billionaires who have injected a record $880 million on the US midterm elections. While the majority of their donations favour the Republicans, Soros has contributed $128 million to Democrats. There is never pushback from Leftists when it is being done on their side. It has been going on on both sides for a while. It has gotten out of hand and there should be something done. I agree about that. But look at the tremendous money that came in for Biden and Harris. The overwhelming number of those richer folks want their 'agenda' followed I would imagine. There was a good idea the other day on a guy suggested it be government spending and limited for elections, etc. That way each candidate has a certain amoutnof election money to use and when it is spent, it is spent, etc. More detailed than that. But maybe something to consider, maybe.
1) The Democrats don’t have there 260 million dollar benefactor sitting in there President sky box or openly telling the elected officials they will be primary elimination if they don’t sit down shut up and vote for what he a private citizen wants!….And why ? Because his kind of money can ruin there career and Trumps pigeons will pull the trigger! You comparison of Soros & Musks muscle in politics doesn’t flush ! George is not in Musks league, Musk is in his own universe regarding wealth that was created in some degree by government subsidies and seems to have forgotten that! ….The robber barons have returned on steroids Raider 22 and you know it ! Hopefully so will Unions !
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