these subsidies are basically a cost shift that has existed for years and the same people who pay for the uninsured now will pay for the subsidies as well as higher premiums for their own medical plans.
No such thing as a free lunch.....someone always has to pay
0
these subsidies are basically a cost shift that has existed for years and the same people who pay for the uninsured now will pay for the subsidies as well as higher premiums for their own medical plans.
No such thing as a free lunch.....someone always has to pay
I think every citizen should have access to reasonable health care, so given that baseline how would you go about accomplishing this at lower cost levels?
I don't agree with that premise.
So I'm not going to go about accomplishing things based on what you think.
0
I think every citizen should have access to reasonable health care, so given that baseline how would you go about accomplishing this at lower cost levels?
I don't agree with that premise.
So I'm not going to go about accomplishing things based on what you think.
You just followed up my 2 sentence post with 3 posts of absolute tripe....
Not one of your posts, note one, not a single one has refuted my claim.
I realize you're here just playing to type, and even you don't believe the stuff you're writing, but:
Health insurance premiums for individual policies will jump by more than 30 percent and small businesses will face double-digit rate hikes for their health plans next year when most of the health care reform known as ObamaCare becomes effective, insurers and actuaries estimated Tuesday.
"There is going to be a rate shock for a lot of people," said Bill Gracey, president of BlueCross BlueShield of Tennessee, the state's biggest health insurer.
"Unfortunately, our young and healthy people may opt out of coverage because their rates are about to go way up -- as much as 62 percent for some healthy, younger males," he said.
In some markets,” said Aetna CEO Mark Bertolini, increases in premiums could “go as high as 100 percent. And we’ve done all that math. We’ve shared it with all the regulators. We’ve shared it with all the people in Washington that need to see it. And I think it’s a big concern.”
“Premium rate shock for 2014,” responded Bertolini, “absent subsidies and everything else, is going to be in the neighborhood of 20 percent to 50 percent. And we’re going to see some markets [and] in sub-segments in some markets go as high as 100 percent.”
You just followed up my 2 sentence post with 3 posts of absolute tripe....
Not one of your posts, note one, not a single one has refuted my claim.
I realize you're here just playing to type, and even you don't believe the stuff you're writing, but:
Health insurance premiums for individual policies will jump by more than 30 percent and small businesses will face double-digit rate hikes for their health plans next year when most of the health care reform known as ObamaCare becomes effective, insurers and actuaries estimated Tuesday.
"There is going to be a rate shock for a lot of people," said Bill Gracey, president of BlueCross BlueShield of Tennessee, the state's biggest health insurer.
"Unfortunately, our young and healthy people may opt out of coverage because their rates are about to go way up -- as much as 62 percent for some healthy, younger males," he said.
In some markets,” said Aetna CEO Mark Bertolini, increases in premiums could “go as high as 100 percent. And we’ve done all that math. We’ve shared it with all the regulators. We’ve shared it with all the people in Washington that need to see it. And I think it’s a big concern.”
“Premium rate shock for 2014,” responded Bertolini, “absent subsidies and everything else, is going to be in the neighborhood of 20 percent to 50 percent. And we’re going to see some markets [and] in sub-segments in some markets go as high as 100 percent.”
Canos... you should stick to being an individual rather then get back into the "childish team/crew Bailout games" that make you look like bowslit... just my 2 cents
DarryL
My conservative friend:
One might say what you are doing "bailing out Stiln" is the same thing you are accusing me of with 14. Now I do agree with 14 and others about Obamacare driving up costs. Numerous posts name govt agencies and provide links. Why don't you go back and re-read them.
Your "spin" is transparent and it doesn't even work:
After I said there were numerous posts refuting stiln's remark about Obamacare bringing down costs you said...
here's his actual response after stlin's post....
I say spin because you say that was 14's post right after Stiln's remark, just to limit that particular post to 14's argument to make his argument look bad. The problem is 14 had posts before that naming names and providing links.
When I said there were numerous posts refuting what Stiln said I wasn't limiting my argument to one post like you were.
Every time you speak up your true colors show. Stiln is a big government liberal (I think he will admit that) who thinks Obamacare is a good idea. Instead of "bailing out" libs (shout out to you) you should just stay neutral on political issues (like this one since you have never said if you are for it or against it) and just keep telling us you're conservative.
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Quote Originally Posted by dl36:
here's his actual response after stlin's post....
Im not sure where the refuting anything is...
Canos... you should stick to being an individual rather then get back into the "childish team/crew Bailout games" that make you look like bowslit... just my 2 cents
DarryL
My conservative friend:
One might say what you are doing "bailing out Stiln" is the same thing you are accusing me of with 14. Now I do agree with 14 and others about Obamacare driving up costs. Numerous posts name govt agencies and provide links. Why don't you go back and re-read them.
Your "spin" is transparent and it doesn't even work:
After I said there were numerous posts refuting stiln's remark about Obamacare bringing down costs you said...
here's his actual response after stlin's post....
I say spin because you say that was 14's post right after Stiln's remark, just to limit that particular post to 14's argument to make his argument look bad. The problem is 14 had posts before that naming names and providing links.
When I said there were numerous posts refuting what Stiln said I wasn't limiting my argument to one post like you were.
Every time you speak up your true colors show. Stiln is a big government liberal (I think he will admit that) who thinks Obamacare is a good idea. Instead of "bailing out" libs (shout out to you) you should just stay neutral on political issues (like this one since you have never said if you are for it or against it) and just keep telling us you're conservative.
I think every citizen should have access to reasonable health care, so given that baseline how would you go about accomplishing this at lower cost levels?
I don't agree with that premise.
So I'm not going to go about accomplishing things based on what you think.
Then your comments were just meant to b!tch..which is what they usually are in the first place.
Why are you against people having health care coverage?
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Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:
I think every citizen should have access to reasonable health care, so given that baseline how would you go about accomplishing this at lower cost levels?
I don't agree with that premise.
So I'm not going to go about accomplishing things based on what you think.
Then your comments were just meant to b!tch..which is what they usually are in the first place.
Why are you against people having health care coverage?
The subsidies (money) that people get to offset their cost of having to have insurance just dont come from a money tree on the White House lawn. Money is taken from someone.....who is it?
The cost offsets I reference come from employers who choose to contribute to the HC plan they offer. I dont think I mentioned anything with regards to the government.
My opinion as I have stated enough that you and all should know is that we failed to plan early in the process because people then and now are not interested in preparing for a future goal when that goal has a current cost..so we could have been in front of the cost issue with better past planning. So with that in mind we are now in a worse position because of those bad choices. If we do not get in front of the issue now then it will continue to be worse, because we know and it is obvious that HC inflation outpaces general inflation..so the LONGER we wait the worse it gets.
I think there are certain things in life that have costs and you cannot avoid certain costs irregardless of your opinion about the level of merit that cost has..because barring sudden death we ALL need healthcare. Usually those who are complaining the most are either extremely narrow minded and selfish or are too young to see the need for planning and preparing..and they are not willing to contribute and plan for THEIR future because they see it as a burden and unnecessary.
Life usually alters our perception..what 14 and others in this thread are saying now I guarantee they will not be saying 15-20 yrs from now.
0
Quote Originally Posted by lordspoint:
I would be interested in hearing your solutions.
The subsidies (money) that people get to offset their cost of having to have insurance just dont come from a money tree on the White House lawn. Money is taken from someone.....who is it?
The cost offsets I reference come from employers who choose to contribute to the HC plan they offer. I dont think I mentioned anything with regards to the government.
My opinion as I have stated enough that you and all should know is that we failed to plan early in the process because people then and now are not interested in preparing for a future goal when that goal has a current cost..so we could have been in front of the cost issue with better past planning. So with that in mind we are now in a worse position because of those bad choices. If we do not get in front of the issue now then it will continue to be worse, because we know and it is obvious that HC inflation outpaces general inflation..so the LONGER we wait the worse it gets.
I think there are certain things in life that have costs and you cannot avoid certain costs irregardless of your opinion about the level of merit that cost has..because barring sudden death we ALL need healthcare. Usually those who are complaining the most are either extremely narrow minded and selfish or are too young to see the need for planning and preparing..and they are not willing to contribute and plan for THEIR future because they see it as a burden and unnecessary.
Life usually alters our perception..what 14 and others in this thread are saying now I guarantee they will not be saying 15-20 yrs from now.
I realize you're here just playing to type, and even you don't believe the stuff you're writing, but:
Health insurance premiums for individual policies will jump by more than 30 percent and small businesses will face double-digit rate hikes for their health plans next year when most of the health care reform known as ObamaCare becomes effective, insurers and actuaries estimated Tuesday.
"There is going to be a rate shock for a lot of people," said Bill Gracey, president of BlueCross BlueShield of Tennessee, the state's biggest health insurer.
"Unfortunately, our young and healthy people may opt out of coverage because their rates are about to go way up -- as much as 62 percent for some healthy, younger males," he said.
In some markets,” said Aetna CEO Mark Bertolini, increases in premiums could “go as high as 100 percent. And we’ve done all that math. We’ve shared it with all the regulators. We’ve shared it with all the people in Washington that need to see it. And I think it’s a big concern.”
“Premium rate shock for 2014,” responded Bertolini, “absent subsidies and everything else, is going to be in the neighborhood of 20 percent to 50 percent. And we’re going to see some markets [and] in sub-segments in some markets go as high as 100 percent.”
What is your deal with the need to post 3,4,5 follow up posts? Can't you simply put all your junk into one post...??
So whatever the CEO of Aetna says is automatically what will happen in 2014....
Serious question what's your objective when you come on to covers? Are you an introvert just looking for people to grasp on to you like canov, bowsit etc... who absolutely worship you!?
0
Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:
I realize you're here just playing to type, and even you don't believe the stuff you're writing, but:
Health insurance premiums for individual policies will jump by more than 30 percent and small businesses will face double-digit rate hikes for their health plans next year when most of the health care reform known as ObamaCare becomes effective, insurers and actuaries estimated Tuesday.
"There is going to be a rate shock for a lot of people," said Bill Gracey, president of BlueCross BlueShield of Tennessee, the state's biggest health insurer.
"Unfortunately, our young and healthy people may opt out of coverage because their rates are about to go way up -- as much as 62 percent for some healthy, younger males," he said.
In some markets,” said Aetna CEO Mark Bertolini, increases in premiums could “go as high as 100 percent. And we’ve done all that math. We’ve shared it with all the regulators. We’ve shared it with all the people in Washington that need to see it. And I think it’s a big concern.”
“Premium rate shock for 2014,” responded Bertolini, “absent subsidies and everything else, is going to be in the neighborhood of 20 percent to 50 percent. And we’re going to see some markets [and] in sub-segments in some markets go as high as 100 percent.”
What is your deal with the need to post 3,4,5 follow up posts? Can't you simply put all your junk into one post...??
So whatever the CEO of Aetna says is automatically what will happen in 2014....
Serious question what's your objective when you come on to covers? Are you an introvert just looking for people to grasp on to you like canov, bowsit etc... who absolutely worship you!?
A few ways to possible reduce costs could be to open up competition across state lines, just like car or life insurance. Why should there be 50 different BC/BS companies? Another idea would be to remove insurance from the workplace. Why should someone's insurance be tied to where they work?
Also, let people pick and choose what they want covered in their insurance plan including a minimum baseline of catastrophic coverage. Why should I have to be on a plan that covers smokers, pre natal care and kids when I don't fall into that category? I should be able to pick my coverages and my rate should be based on a 49 year old man with slightly elevated chlorestoral levels. Someone younger than me and in better shape should not pay as much as I do.
Obamacare along with current HC plans are one size fits none and people are paying for stuff they will never need. Make the plans fit the needs and prices drop.
Competition among insurance companies is not the issue nor the solution.
For an undertstanding of this, look at the profit margins of insurance companies (they aren't high), but more on point, look at the costs of medical care. That is the culprit. Nothing is going to change until we reduce the cost of care, which will reduce the cost of coverage.
As for your second part, it is completely the antithesis of logic. Health insurance rates are impacted based on age, smoking, health, lifestyle, etc.
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Quote Originally Posted by Danrules24:
A few ways to possible reduce costs could be to open up competition across state lines, just like car or life insurance. Why should there be 50 different BC/BS companies? Another idea would be to remove insurance from the workplace. Why should someone's insurance be tied to where they work?
Also, let people pick and choose what they want covered in their insurance plan including a minimum baseline of catastrophic coverage. Why should I have to be on a plan that covers smokers, pre natal care and kids when I don't fall into that category? I should be able to pick my coverages and my rate should be based on a 49 year old man with slightly elevated chlorestoral levels. Someone younger than me and in better shape should not pay as much as I do.
Obamacare along with current HC plans are one size fits none and people are paying for stuff they will never need. Make the plans fit the needs and prices drop.
Competition among insurance companies is not the issue nor the solution.
For an undertstanding of this, look at the profit margins of insurance companies (they aren't high), but more on point, look at the costs of medical care. That is the culprit. Nothing is going to change until we reduce the cost of care, which will reduce the cost of coverage.
As for your second part, it is completely the antithesis of logic. Health insurance rates are impacted based on age, smoking, health, lifestyle, etc.
Competition among insurance companies is not the issue nor the solution.
For an undertstanding of this, look at the profit margins of insurance companies (they aren't high), but more on point, look at the costs of medical care. That is the culprit. Nothing is going to change until we reduce the cost of care, which will reduce the cost of coverage.
As for your second part, it is completely the antithesis of logic. Health insurance rates are impacted based on age, smoking, health, lifestyle, etc.
Wrong. In almost every group plan the rates are the same for everyone regardless if they are a smoker or not. We have a work plan through Aetna and my rates are the same as someone 15 years younger than me and someone 15 years older than me that smokes and is very obese. It's one price for single people, another for a couple, and another for adding kids. Flat price, this is what you pay regardless of health considerations.
Stay disciplined and manage your bankroll
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Quote Originally Posted by djbrow:
Competition among insurance companies is not the issue nor the solution.
For an undertstanding of this, look at the profit margins of insurance companies (they aren't high), but more on point, look at the costs of medical care. That is the culprit. Nothing is going to change until we reduce the cost of care, which will reduce the cost of coverage.
As for your second part, it is completely the antithesis of logic. Health insurance rates are impacted based on age, smoking, health, lifestyle, etc.
Wrong. In almost every group plan the rates are the same for everyone regardless if they are a smoker or not. We have a work plan through Aetna and my rates are the same as someone 15 years younger than me and someone 15 years older than me that smokes and is very obese. It's one price for single people, another for a couple, and another for adding kids. Flat price, this is what you pay regardless of health considerations.
One might say what you are doing "bailing out Stiln" is the same thing you are accusing me of with 14. Now I do agree with 14 and others about Obamacare driving up costs. Numerous posts name govt agencies and provide links. Why don't you go back and re-read them.
Your "spin" is transparent and it doesn't even work:
After I said there were numerous posts refuting stiln's remark about Obamacare bringing down costs you said...
here's his actual response after stlin's post....
I say spin because you say that was 14's post right after Stiln's remark, just to limit that particular post to 14's argument to make his argument look bad. The problem is 14 had posts before that naming names and providing links.
When I said there were numerous posts refuting what Stiln said I wasn't limiting my argument to one post like you were.
Every time you speak up your true colors show. Stiln is a big government liberal (I think he will admit that) who thinks Obamacare is a good idea. Instead of "bailing out" libs (shout out to you) you should just stay neutral on political issues (like this one since you have never said if you are for it or against it) and just keep telling us you're conservative.
you lost me after the darryl talk that starts up whenever you go into
your "childish team/crew Bailout games"... the rest sounds like more blah blah blah about your "circle jerk"...
Also when it is that I call myself "a conservative"?
I think we differ in that you use conservative as a noun while I view it as an adjective... huge difference there in how we think...
but please... carry on with the bowslit games... maybe we can have a nurse rachett appearance that seems to happen when your psychotic meltdown starts up...
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Quote Originally Posted by canovsp:
DarryL
My conservative friend:
One might say what you are doing "bailing out Stiln" is the same thing you are accusing me of with 14. Now I do agree with 14 and others about Obamacare driving up costs. Numerous posts name govt agencies and provide links. Why don't you go back and re-read them.
Your "spin" is transparent and it doesn't even work:
After I said there were numerous posts refuting stiln's remark about Obamacare bringing down costs you said...
here's his actual response after stlin's post....
I say spin because you say that was 14's post right after Stiln's remark, just to limit that particular post to 14's argument to make his argument look bad. The problem is 14 had posts before that naming names and providing links.
When I said there were numerous posts refuting what Stiln said I wasn't limiting my argument to one post like you were.
Every time you speak up your true colors show. Stiln is a big government liberal (I think he will admit that) who thinks Obamacare is a good idea. Instead of "bailing out" libs (shout out to you) you should just stay neutral on political issues (like this one since you have never said if you are for it or against it) and just keep telling us you're conservative.
you lost me after the darryl talk that starts up whenever you go into
your "childish team/crew Bailout games"... the rest sounds like more blah blah blah about your "circle jerk"...
Also when it is that I call myself "a conservative"?
I think we differ in that you use conservative as a noun while I view it as an adjective... huge difference there in how we think...
but please... carry on with the bowslit games... maybe we can have a nurse rachett appearance that seems to happen when your psychotic meltdown starts up...
Wrong. In almost every group plan the rates are the same for everyone regardless if they are a smoker or not. We have a work plan through Aetna and my rates are the same as someone 15 years younger than me and someone 15 years older than me that smokes and is very obese. It's one price for single people, another for a couple, and another for adding kids. Flat price, this is what you pay regardless of health considerations.
A quick google search shows the above certainly isn't the norm.
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Quote Originally Posted by Danrules24:
Wrong. In almost every group plan the rates are the same for everyone regardless if they are a smoker or not. We have a work plan through Aetna and my rates are the same as someone 15 years younger than me and someone 15 years older than me that smokes and is very obese. It's one price for single people, another for a couple, and another for adding kids. Flat price, this is what you pay regardless of health considerations.
A quick google search shows the above certainly isn't the norm.
Premature to judge Obamacare because many benefits aren't supposed to occur until fully implemented after 2020. In many countries, a great benefit of healthcare reform is that sick people with preexisting conditions cannot be denied insurance. Now American insurers are raising rates while they still can before new law slows rate increases.
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Premature to judge Obamacare because many benefits aren't supposed to occur until fully implemented after 2020. In many countries, a great benefit of healthcare reform is that sick people with preexisting conditions cannot be denied insurance. Now American insurers are raising rates while they still can before new law slows rate increases.
If anything Obama care has reduced the cost of insurance rates and in 2014 when the mandate takes the next step..... the insurance should decrease dramatically merely because everyone will then be forced to pay into the system rather than having just sick people pay in which would in turn increase the rates for non-sick people..
Wow!
How dumb/committed do you have to be to be defending obamacare still? There's only like 3 people in the US that still defend that pathetic shlt.
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Quote Originally Posted by Stiln:
If anything Obama care has reduced the cost of insurance rates and in 2014 when the mandate takes the next step..... the insurance should decrease dramatically merely because everyone will then be forced to pay into the system rather than having just sick people pay in which would in turn increase the rates for non-sick people..
Wow!
How dumb/committed do you have to be to be defending obamacare still? There's only like 3 people in the US that still defend that pathetic shlt.
Then your comments were just meant to b!tch..which is what they usually are in the first place.
Why are you against people having health care coverage?
Nice projection.
Really, the person who uses terms like "profiteers" and absurdly asserts that drug companies are driving health insurances costs, says I'm here to girl.
That is rich.
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Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:
Then your comments were just meant to b!tch..which is what they usually are in the first place.
Why are you against people having health care coverage?
Nice projection.
Really, the person who uses terms like "profiteers" and absurdly asserts that drug companies are driving health insurances costs, says I'm here to girl.
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