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    All Forums | Politics

    The Russian Connection

    12 Next Last»
    lordspoint
    slikstiks99
    bunny651
    ClubDirt
    djbrow
    ...
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    12 Next Last»
     
    lordspoint
    lordspoint
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    Posted: Sep. 9, 2013 - 7:13 PM ET #1

    Hmmm, now they will broker a deal with Syria after Kerrrys off hand comments this morning. The state department walks back Kerry's comment but then by lunch the Russians say they will put pressure on Assad to turn over the chems to international control.

    Ok, why the 180 by the Russians?
    The theories are many so lets discuss them.

    Lets try to stay on topic and stay away from personal attacks and the partisan bickering please. I promise I will try my best :)
    Hey if Kerry's comments were the catalyst then kudos to him even if they were off the cuff.

    Did we bribe the Russians?
    Is this a stall tactic by the Russians?
    Seems almost to go to be true.

    If its on the up and up and it gets accomplished its a good change in direction and I hope it succeeds.
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    To remove first post, remove entire topic.
    Hmmm, now they will broker a deal with Syria after Kerrrys off hand comments this morning. The state department walks back Kerry's comment but then by lunch the Russians say they will put pressure on Assad to turn over the chems to international control.

    Ok, why the 180 by the Russians?
    The theories are many so lets discuss them.

    Lets try to stay on topic and stay away from personal attacks and the partisan bickering please. I promise I will try my best :)
    Hey if Kerry's comments were the catalyst then kudos to him even if they were off the cuff.

    Did we bribe the Russians?
    Is this a stall tactic by the Russians?
    Seems almost to go to be true.

    If its on the up and up and it gets accomplished its a good change in direction and I hope it succeeds.
     
    slikstiks99
    slikstiks99
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    Posted: Sep. 9, 2013 - 7:29 PM ET #2

    It's pretty sad that their is more justice and integrity in the Russian government than our own.

    Russia seems to know the obvious. The chemical weapons attack was perpetrated by Mossad/CIA by proxy of the rebels. It is the only logical explanation.

    Assad would not risk the blow-back that would come with using chemical weapons. He'd know that such an act would invite foreign interventionism by predatory interest.

    Israel knows that too....... So does the CIA........
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    It's pretty sad that their is more justice and integrity in the Russian government than our own.

    Russia seems to know the obvious. The chemical weapons attack was perpetrated by Mossad/CIA by proxy of the rebels. It is the only logical explanation.

    Assad would not risk the blow-back that would come with using chemical weapons. He'd know that such an act would invite foreign interventionism by predatory interest.

    Israel knows that too....... So does the CIA........
     
    bunny651
    bunny651
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    Posted: Sep. 9, 2013 - 7:34 PM ET #3

    If it is true, it's definitely a good news. Maybe the Russians want to show their influence, too.

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    If it is true, it's definitely a good news. Maybe the Russians want to show their influence, too.

     
    ClubDirt
    ClubDirt
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    Posted: Sep. 9, 2013 - 8:45 PM ET #4

    i have two questions about this:

    1. how does anyone know if assad really turns over all of his "checmical" weapons? and

    2. assuming the war in syria continues, is it ok if the syrian people will be just as dead from bullets and bombs (by the way, by definition, and by chemistry, bombs are chemical weapon as well.)
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    i have two questions about this:

    1. how does anyone know if assad really turns over all of his "checmical" weapons? and

    2. assuming the war in syria continues, is it ok if the syrian people will be just as dead from bullets and bombs (by the way, by definition, and by chemistry, bombs are chemical weapon as well.)
     
    lordspoint
    lordspoint
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    Posted: Sep. 9, 2013 - 9:33 PM ET #5

    Club- I have asked the same # 2 question above myself.
    I guess we as a species have only evolved to the point of chemicals bad, conventional good.
    I guess that's progress?
    It's only a matter of time before terrorist get a dirty bomb and denote in Europe or in the US.
    Sadly to have such a beautiful planet yet we are such an ugly species.
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    Club- I have asked the same # 2 question above myself.
    I guess we as a species have only evolved to the point of chemicals bad, conventional good.
    I guess that's progress?
    It's only a matter of time before terrorist get a dirty bomb and denote in Europe or in the US.
    Sadly to have such a beautiful planet yet we are such an ugly species.
     
    djbrow
    djbrow
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    Posted: Sep. 9, 2013 - 9:53 PM ET #6

    Quote Originally Posted by slikstiks99:

     

    . The chemical weapons attack was perpetrated by Mossad/CIA by proxy of the rebels. It is the only logical explanation.


    Do you think it was the same people that perpetrated the 9/11 inside job?

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    Quote Originally Posted by slikstiks99:

     

    . The chemical weapons attack was perpetrated by Mossad/CIA by proxy of the rebels. It is the only logical explanation.


    Do you think it was the same people that perpetrated the 9/11 inside job?

     
    djbrow
    djbrow
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    Posted: Sep. 9, 2013 - 9:54 PM ET #7

    Quote Originally Posted by lordspoint:

    Hmmm, now they will broker a deal with Syria after Kerrrys off hand comments this morning. The state department walks back Kerry's comment but then by lunch the Russians say they will put pressure on Assad to turn over the chems to international control.

    Ok, why the 180 by the Russians?
    The theories are many so lets discuss them.

    Lets try to stay on topic and stay away from personal attacks and the partisan bickering please. I promise I will try my best :)
    Hey if Kerry's comments were the catalyst then kudos to him even if they were off the cuff.

    Did we bribe the Russians?
    Is this a stall tactic by the Russians?
    Seems almost to go to be true.

    If its on the up and up and it gets accomplished its a good change in direction and I hope it succeeds.

    Russia has financial interests in Syria. US involvement threatens those. If Russia was made to feel that the US action was imminent even if unpopular, it would likely spur some kind of action.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lordspoint:

    Hmmm, now they will broker a deal with Syria after Kerrrys off hand comments this morning. The state department walks back Kerry's comment but then by lunch the Russians say they will put pressure on Assad to turn over the chems to international control.

    Ok, why the 180 by the Russians?
    The theories are many so lets discuss them.

    Lets try to stay on topic and stay away from personal attacks and the partisan bickering please. I promise I will try my best :)
    Hey if Kerry's comments were the catalyst then kudos to him even if they were off the cuff.

    Did we bribe the Russians?
    Is this a stall tactic by the Russians?
    Seems almost to go to be true.

    If its on the up and up and it gets accomplished its a good change in direction and I hope it succeeds.

    Russia has financial interests in Syria. US involvement threatens those. If Russia was made to feel that the US action was imminent even if unpopular, it would likely spur some kind of action.

     
    chilitokid
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    Posted: Sep. 9, 2013 - 10:10 PM ET #8

    The Russians have a lot to lose in the Middle East if there is a war. Think about it....Russia's only Ally is Syria in the Muslim world. Any interruption in the transportation of oil would surely have a very, very negative impact on the Russians....and they know that.
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    The Russians have a lot to lose in the Middle East if there is a war. Think about it....Russia's only Ally is Syria in the Muslim world. Any interruption in the transportation of oil would surely have a very, very negative impact on the Russians....and they know that.
     
    RJSmith
    RJSmith
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    Posted: Sep. 9, 2013 - 11:00 PM ET #9

    Quote Originally Posted by chilitokid:

    The Russians have a lot to lose in the Middle East if there is a war. Think about it....Russia's only Ally is Syria in the Muslim world. Any interruption in the transportation of oil would surely have a very, very negative impact on the Russians....and they know that.

    It's not about oil. Russia is the largest oil producing country in the world. Bigger than Saudi Arabia.
    Russia's interests aren't financial either. It's about security - they really fear if the fundamentalist islamists seize power. The Middle East + Afghanistan/Pakistan are fecked up as it is - more turmoil could see Al Quada spread into the former Soviet republics where there's a lot of Muslims.

    I fear (as the Russians) if the islamists seize power - we have already seen Christians massacred or fleeing in great numbers from Syria.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chilitokid:

    The Russians have a lot to lose in the Middle East if there is a war. Think about it....Russia's only Ally is Syria in the Muslim world. Any interruption in the transportation of oil would surely have a very, very negative impact on the Russians....and they know that.

    It's not about oil. Russia is the largest oil producing country in the world. Bigger than Saudi Arabia.
    Russia's interests aren't financial either. It's about security - they really fear if the fundamentalist islamists seize power. The Middle East + Afghanistan/Pakistan are fecked up as it is - more turmoil could see Al Quada spread into the former Soviet republics where there's a lot of Muslims.

    I fear (as the Russians) if the islamists seize power - we have already seen Christians massacred or fleeing in great numbers from Syria.
     
    lordspoint
    lordspoint
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    Posted: Sep. 9, 2013 - 11:06 PM ET #10

    Yup, oil, natural gas, a naval base, military exports.
    It's all about natural resources, money and a presence.
    Go figure.........
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    Yup, oil, natural gas, a naval base, military exports.
    It's all about natural resources, money and a presence.
    Go figure.........
     
    rick3117
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    Posted: Sep. 9, 2013 - 11:27 PM ET #11

    Russia has an interest in the region, we should see this gift for what it is.

    Barry can save face if he chooses to.

    The whole war dance was a bit embarrassing, but he can save face. 

    Either way, I would not see us doing this if it were Israel in question, take it for what it is.

    A friggin olive branch get a friggin clue and take it. 

     

    Again. I trust Putin more than Barry anyway.

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    Russia has an interest in the region, we should see this gift for what it is.

    Barry can save face if he chooses to.

    The whole war dance was a bit embarrassing, but he can save face. 

    Either way, I would not see us doing this if it were Israel in question, take it for what it is.

    A friggin olive branch get a friggin clue and take it. 

     

    Again. I trust Putin more than Barry anyway.

     
    slikstiks99
    slikstiks99
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    Posted: Sep. 10, 2013 - 12:18 AM ET #12

    Quote Originally Posted by djbrow:

    Do you think it was the same people that perpetrated the 9/11 inside job?

    What evidence are you aware of about Assad's guilt? Where did this evidence originate from? Did it come from a country that would be disinterested in overthrowing Assad's regime?


    We had "proof" of WMDs (a disgusting propaganda creation of a word) in Iraq.


    Funny that you mention Iraq. The killing of 3000 civilians used to justify the future killing of over 100,000 and the entire destruction of a country's infrastructure. It seems like we have a similar situation here.

    Yet you still doubt the possible existence false-flag acts committed by the US and Israel? You are naive to neglect the possibility of treasonous and/or false-flag activities in the cases of Syria and 9/11.

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    Quote Originally Posted by djbrow:

    Do you think it was the same people that perpetrated the 9/11 inside job?

    What evidence are you aware of about Assad's guilt? Where did this evidence originate from? Did it come from a country that would be disinterested in overthrowing Assad's regime?


    We had "proof" of WMDs (a disgusting propaganda creation of a word) in Iraq.


    Funny that you mention Iraq. The killing of 3000 civilians used to justify the future killing of over 100,000 and the entire destruction of a country's infrastructure. It seems like we have a similar situation here.

    Yet you still doubt the possible existence false-flag acts committed by the US and Israel? You are naive to neglect the possibility of treasonous and/or false-flag activities in the cases of Syria and 9/11.

     
    djbrow
    djbrow
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    Posted: Sep. 10, 2013 - 2:15 PM ET #13

    Quote Originally Posted by slikstiks99:

    What evidence are you aware of about Assad's guilt? Where did this evidence originate from? Did it come from a country that would be disinterested in overthrowing Assad's regime?


    We had "proof" of WMDs (a disgusting propaganda creation of a word) in Iraq.


    Funny that you mention Iraq. The killing of 3000 civilians used to justify the future killing of over 100,000 and the entire destruction of a country's infrastructure. It seems like we have a similar situation here.

    Yet you still doubt the possible existence false-flag acts committed by the US and Israel? You are naive to neglect the possibility of treasonous and/or false-flag activities in the cases of Syria and 9/11.

    No, I just find 9/11 truthers to generally be mentally ill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slikstiks99:

    What evidence are you aware of about Assad's guilt? Where did this evidence originate from? Did it come from a country that would be disinterested in overthrowing Assad's regime?


    We had "proof" of WMDs (a disgusting propaganda creation of a word) in Iraq.


    Funny that you mention Iraq. The killing of 3000 civilians used to justify the future killing of over 100,000 and the entire destruction of a country's infrastructure. It seems like we have a similar situation here.

    Yet you still doubt the possible existence false-flag acts committed by the US and Israel? You are naive to neglect the possibility of treasonous and/or false-flag activities in the cases of Syria and 9/11.

    No, I just find 9/11 truthers to generally be mentally ill.

     
    djbrow
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    Posted: Sep. 10, 2013 - 2:17 PM ET #14

    Quote Originally Posted by rick3117:

    Russia has an interest in the region, we should see this gift for what it is.

    Barry can save face if he chooses to.

    The whole war dance was a bit embarrassing, but he can save face. 

    Either way, I would not see us doing this if it were Israel in question, take it for what it is.

    A friggin olive branch get a friggin clue and take it. 

     

    Again. I trust Putin more than Barry anyway.

    Or it was calculated to bring about the Russian involvement that may solve the issue.

    You would never agree that was the intention however..unless it was orchestrated by a President Paul.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rick3117:

    Russia has an interest in the region, we should see this gift for what it is.

    Barry can save face if he chooses to.

    The whole war dance was a bit embarrassing, but he can save face. 

    Either way, I would not see us doing this if it were Israel in question, take it for what it is.

    A friggin olive branch get a friggin clue and take it. 

     

    Again. I trust Putin more than Barry anyway.

    Or it was calculated to bring about the Russian involvement that may solve the issue.

    You would never agree that was the intention however..unless it was orchestrated by a President Paul.

     
    rick3117
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    Posted: Sep. 10, 2013 - 3:13 PM ET #15

    Do you actually believe that? 

     

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    Do you actually believe that? 

     

     
    djbrow
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    Posted: Sep. 10, 2013 - 3:28 PM ET #16

    Quote Originally Posted by rick3117:

    Do you actually believe that? 

     

    I don't. But it wouldn't be unfathomable for an aggressive plan to be a decoy to bring about an intended action as a strategic US policy.

    I have no doubt that under a Rand Paul administration, you would be calling the same brilliant is it brought about a solution without the use of bombs, troops, or drones.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rick3117:

    Do you actually believe that? 

     

    I don't. But it wouldn't be unfathomable for an aggressive plan to be a decoy to bring about an intended action as a strategic US policy.

    I have no doubt that under a Rand Paul administration, you would be calling the same brilliant is it brought about a solution without the use of bombs, troops, or drones.

     
    TILTOLOGIC
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    Posted: Sep. 10, 2013 - 3:55 PM ET #17

    Lets just all agree that John Kerry is an embarrassment and should resign immediately
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    Lets just all agree that John Kerry is an embarrassment and should resign immediately
     
    ClubDirt
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    Posted: Sep. 10, 2013 - 4:05 PM ET #18

    Quote Originally Posted by TILTOLOGIC:

    Lets just all agree that John Kerry is an embarrassment and should resign immediately



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    Quote Originally Posted by TILTOLOGIC:

    Lets just all agree that John Kerry is an embarrassment and should resign immediately



     
    djbrow
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    Posted: Sep. 10, 2013 - 4:18 PM ET #19

    Quote Originally Posted by TILTOLOGIC:

    Lets just all agree that John Kerry is an embarrassment and should resign immediately

    I don't think Obama even briefs him as he came out today saying force was still an option.

    Inept is a good descriptor!
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    Quote Originally Posted by TILTOLOGIC:

    Lets just all agree that John Kerry is an embarrassment and should resign immediately

    I don't think Obama even briefs him as he came out today saying force was still an option.

    Inept is a good descriptor!
     
    rick3117
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    Posted: Sep. 10, 2013 - 10:00 PM ET #20

    Quote Originally Posted by djbrow:

    I don't. But it wouldn't be unfathomable for an aggressive plan to be a decoy to bring about an intended action as a strategic US policy.

    I have no doubt that under a Rand Paul administration, you would be calling the same brilliant is it brought about a solution without the use of bombs, troops, or drones.

    I would like to think that I would be just as big, if not a bigger critic of Rand Paul if he were acting like a God-damned lunatic.

    I have never voted for a president that won, so  I don't know what it would be like to turn off my brain, and forsake my ideals in that way.  I guess we will find out in 2016.

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    Quote Originally Posted by djbrow:

    I don't. But it wouldn't be unfathomable for an aggressive plan to be a decoy to bring about an intended action as a strategic US policy.

    I have no doubt that under a Rand Paul administration, you would be calling the same brilliant is it brought about a solution without the use of bombs, troops, or drones.

    I would like to think that I would be just as big, if not a bigger critic of Rand Paul if he were acting like a God-damned lunatic.

    I have never voted for a president that won, so  I don't know what it would be like to turn off my brain, and forsake my ideals in that way.  I guess we will find out in 2016.

     
    lordspoint
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    Posted: Sep. 10, 2013 - 10:11 PM ET #21

    I don't. But it wouldn't be unfathomable for an aggressive plan to be a decoy to bring about an intended action as a strategic US policy.

    Nah, Syria called our bluff (if it was Assad who used the chems) and crossed the red line. Obama has stumbled and fumbled since. He and the USA are lucky the Russians prefer Asssad over the alternatives.
    This was not a designed policy that began with or before the redline comment.
    I'd like to give Obama and his ppl credit but the odds it was planned diplomacy from the outset are slim to none.
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    I don't. But it wouldn't be unfathomable for an aggressive plan to be a decoy to bring about an intended action as a strategic US policy.

    Nah, Syria called our bluff (if it was Assad who used the chems) and crossed the red line. Obama has stumbled and fumbled since. He and the USA are lucky the Russians prefer Asssad over the alternatives.
    This was not a designed policy that began with or before the redline comment.
    I'd like to give Obama and his ppl credit but the odds it was planned diplomacy from the outset are slim to none.
     
    TILTOLOGIC
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    Posted: Sep. 10, 2013 - 11:52 PM ET #22

    All I saw tonight in his speech was Obama impersonating Samantha Power. The emphasis was almost solely on humanitarian goals. This circus the last few weeks is a product of Power's policy ideas.And its on full display.

    How are they working out for the good old USA? Needless to say they don't play in the real world. Maybe that's why we've never gone down this road before? 

    And in the end, we put real strategic interests at risk. You can't let humanitarian goals trump REAL strategic interests. When humanitarianism trumps traditional strategic interests, you get what we have today, pending strategic disaster in the middle east. 

    If we do strike Assad, it won't stop him, and quite possibly could provoke him further. He will still have his chemical weapons and the real kicker is watching Putin's influence grow at the expense of ours.
    I would of fired Power and Kerry yesterday.  
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    All I saw tonight in his speech was Obama impersonating Samantha Power. The emphasis was almost solely on humanitarian goals. This circus the last few weeks is a product of Power's policy ideas.And its on full display.

    How are they working out for the good old USA? Needless to say they don't play in the real world. Maybe that's why we've never gone down this road before? 

    And in the end, we put real strategic interests at risk. You can't let humanitarian goals trump REAL strategic interests. When humanitarianism trumps traditional strategic interests, you get what we have today, pending strategic disaster in the middle east. 

    If we do strike Assad, it won't stop him, and quite possibly could provoke him further. He will still have his chemical weapons and the real kicker is watching Putin's influence grow at the expense of ours.
    I would of fired Power and Kerry yesterday.  
     
    TILTOLOGIC
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    Posted: Sep. 10, 2013 - 11:57 PM ET #23

    The cruel irony of our loss of influence, is that it will ultimately lead to bigger humanitarian problems in the end over there. 



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    The cruel irony of our loss of influence, is that it will ultimately lead to bigger humanitarian problems in the end over there. 



     
    Rush51
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    Posted: Sep. 11, 2013 - 12:27 AM ET #24

    Quote Originally Posted by djbrow:

    Russia has financial interests in Syria. US involvement threatens those. If Russia was made to feel that the US action was imminent even if unpopular, it would likely spur some kind of action.

     

    The interests run much bigger than Financial.   Russia has a naval base (Tartus)  in Syria along the Mediterranean that is of primary interest.    It is their gateway to the Atlantic .   Their bases in the North are frozen half the year and worthless from a strategic standpoint.

    Russia will not let this base go under any circumstance... and therefore Syria.  

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    Quote Originally Posted by djbrow:

    Russia has financial interests in Syria. US involvement threatens those. If Russia was made to feel that the US action was imminent even if unpopular, it would likely spur some kind of action.

     

    The interests run much bigger than Financial.   Russia has a naval base (Tartus)  in Syria along the Mediterranean that is of primary interest.    It is their gateway to the Atlantic .   Their bases in the North are frozen half the year and worthless from a strategic standpoint.

    Russia will not let this base go under any circumstance... and therefore Syria.  

     
     
    Rush51
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    Posted: Sep. 11, 2013 - 12:41 AM ET #25

    Quote Originally Posted by TILTOLOGIC:

    The cruel irony of our loss of influence, is that it will ultimately lead to bigger humanitarian problems in the end over there. 



     

    Besides Humanitarian, The great irony is that are military inaction may actually destabilize the Middle East further ;

     

    * Consider an Iran that now feels our words are not backed up by action.  So, why stop Uranium Enrichment ?  They will continue to build... and god forbid test our resolve and  use WMD.  

    * Perhaps more Dangerous, consider an Israel that feels America is a war-weary country now, and not compelled to take action when "red lines" are crossed.  This may compel Israel to take action on its own to protect itself.  Why would it trust a friend that doesn't back up what it says ?   Think about that.

     

    People really fail to look at the big picture here.  O'bama drew the Red Line, and action should have already taken when it was confirmed Assad's forces used it. 

      

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    Quote Originally Posted by TILTOLOGIC:

    The cruel irony of our loss of influence, is that it will ultimately lead to bigger humanitarian problems in the end over there. 



     

    Besides Humanitarian, The great irony is that are military inaction may actually destabilize the Middle East further ;

     

    * Consider an Iran that now feels our words are not backed up by action.  So, why stop Uranium Enrichment ?  They will continue to build... and god forbid test our resolve and  use WMD.  

    * Perhaps more Dangerous, consider an Israel that feels America is a war-weary country now, and not compelled to take action when "red lines" are crossed.  This may compel Israel to take action on its own to protect itself.  Why would it trust a friend that doesn't back up what it says ?   Think about that.

     

    People really fail to look at the big picture here.  O'bama drew the Red Line, and action should have already taken when it was confirmed Assad's forces used it. 

      

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