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Craps and Dice Control

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Allison_Road

Prospect

Joined: Oct, 2010

Posts: 445

Posted: May. 5, 2014 - 10:17 PM ET #51

Quote Originally Posted by sports_Network:

Claire Sudath contacted a colleague, Frank Scoblete who recently published "Beat the Craps out of the Casino's" who not only conferred that Johnny Capra played a major roll by unifying the spirits into her physical roll of the dice, thus "spiritual dice control" Frank Scoblete goes further,

I don't know where you got your information from, but you are mistaken if you think that Mr. Scoblete recently published the book, " Beat the Craps out of the Casinos..." That book was first published in 1991, which by my recollection is 23 years ago.Frank is a notorious " self promoter " so it would be best to take what he says with a grain of salt.Every once in a while, someone will have a life changing roll. The California Club in Las Vegas has a plaque on the wall dedicated to a shooter who had the world's longest roll at that time.On May 28th, 1989, a Hawaii man walked up to “Craps Three” and set a record that was only succeeded by Patty's Demouro's roll.Stanley Fujitake held the dice for 3 hours and 6 minutes, 118 rolls. So every now and then the stars align and miracles happen, but it will never be a daily occurrence in anyone's lifetime.

sports_Network

Banned

Joined: Feb, 2009

Posts: 8426

Posted: May. 6, 2014 - 10:22 AM ET #52

that's for sure! well said.......

sports_Network

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Joined: Feb, 2009

Posts: 8426

Posted: May. 6, 2014 - 10:29 AM ET #53

BTW

I'm well aware in regards to the 1991 publishing, my reference was to Claire Sudath's article in Time Magazine... in which Scoblete was a contibuting consultant...a great deal of self promotion.

Allison_Road

Prospect

Joined: Oct, 2010

Posts: 445

Posted: May. 6, 2014 - 7:48 PM ET #54

Quote Originally Posted by sports_Network:

BTW

I'm well aware in regards to the 1991 publishing, my reference was to Claire Sudath's article in Time Magazine... in which Scoblete was a contibuting consultant...a great deal of self promotion.

What I found most amusing is that your post infers that it was Claire Sudath who supposedly has a colleague in Mr. Scoblete.That I find to be a very loose interpretation of the phrase. What probably really happened was that Mr. Frank ( being the social butterfly that he is ) probably contacted Ms.Suddath after the fact and wanted to get the " skinny " on how she did her amazing once in a lifetime roll. Dude can't fail to get himself in front of the camera or in the printed word as much as possible.

Lippsman

Covers Linesmen

Joined: Feb, 2001

Posts: 87445

Posted: May. 7, 2014 - 8:04 AM ET #55

The planets aligned just right is the only real reason. Personally I would like to know if they changed the dice during that long run. I imagine the dice were slightly weighted wrong and that attributed . Back then the precision in making the dice wasn't even close as it is now.

MortgageMan

Prospect

Joined: Nov, 2006

Posts: 333

Posted: May. 7, 2014 - 9:33 AM ET #56

First, I don't think that you can totally "control" dice...there are too many variables, most notably, the diamond dimpled back wall. But, I do believe that you can influence the dice by using proper sets and throwing techniques. The guys who pick up the dice and chuck them are using no technique and are relying on total luck. I utilize the "Three V Set" and last week I had 28 straight rolls before a 7 and a month before that I had 41 straight rolls before a 7. I made money both times and had fun. I will be going to the casino this Friday and I will report back to let you know how my session went. I also utilize a conservative betting structure when the "chicken feeders" are throwing. If they get lucky, I win a little otherwise, I limit my losses when they are throwing "point/7's" all night long. I love craps and I learned how to play it and limit my losses or make a little while having a blast playing it.

Lippsman

Covers Linesmen

Joined: Feb, 2001

Posts: 87445

Posted: May. 7, 2014 - 9:42 AM ET #57

Quote Originally Posted by MortgageMan:

First, I don't think that you can totally "control" dice...there are too many variables, most notably, the diamond dimpled back wall. But, I do believe that you can influence the dice by using proper sets and throwing techniques. The guys who pick up the dice and chuck them are using no technique and are relying on total luck. I utilize the "Three V Set" and last week I had 28 straight rolls before a 7 and a month before that I had 41 straight rolls before a 7. I made money both times and had fun. I will be going to the casino this Friday and I will report back to let you know how my session went. I also utilize a conservative betting structure when the "chicken feeders" are throwing. If they get lucky, I win a little otherwise, I limit my losses when they are throwing "point/7's" all night long. I love craps and I learned how to play it and limit my losses or make a little while having a blast playing it.

Are you just sliding the dice ? Also are you hitting the back wall ? Have you found an inexperienced crew at your local casino ? If they are requiring you to hit the back wall with a tumble of the dice that is quite impressive. How many times did you get the dice when you were out on the quick side.

Will look forward to your report from the next casino trip.

StevieD9325

Prospect

Joined: Aug, 2010

Posts: 27

Posted: Jun. 9, 2014 - 2:04 PM ET #58

My wife hit the Fire bet the other night. She sets the dice and has an awful lot of good rolls. I also set them but I am not as good as she is. Our problem is the other shooters. We go broke on them Looking for a way to bet them and not go broke. Like I was down to nothing when she started her roll. I got up nicely but then after a few bad shooters I loaded up on myself and threw a point seven. One agair rely on other shooters and trying to hang on until my wife gets the dice again.

Question. Anyone have a good betting schemes while the bones make their way around the table?

Lippsman

Covers Linesmen

Joined: Feb, 2001

Posts: 87445

Posted: Jun. 9, 2014 - 5:05 PM ET #59

Quote Originally Posted by StevieD9325:

Question. Anyone have a good betting schemes while the bones make their way around the table?

Just wager on don't pass and don't come

sports_Network

Banned

Joined: Feb, 2009

Posts: 8426

Posted: Jun. 10, 2014 - 8:47 AM ET #60

bet the 'field' consistently, stay with the BIG 6 & 8 bets, manage your bets accordingly to WINS, back step on LOSSES.....

Lippsman

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Joined: Feb, 2001

Posts: 87445

Posted: Jun. 10, 2014 - 9:07 AM ET #61

Quote Originally Posted by sports_Network:

bet the 'field' consistently, stay with the BIG 6 & 8 bets, manage your bets accordingly to WINS, back step on LOSSES.....

Don't play this way.

The Big 6 and 8 are exactly like the place bets on 6 and 8, respectively, except pay even money, instead of 7 to 6. You would be a fool to make these bets with you could get much better odds on the same thing with a Place bet.

Field bets, you are giving the house a 2.78% advantage

If you play the don't pass like I advised, taking 3-5X odds, you are giving the house about a 0.273% edge.

Now tell me, do you want to give the house a 2.78% advantage and lose money playing the Big 6 and Big 8 instead of using a place bet or do you want to give the house a next to nothing edge by playing the don't pas with max odds ?

Nothing personal sports network, just want to give the facts and also give everyone every single dollar they can save at the tables. Hopefully this will help your play in the future also.

nfl_brosuf

All-Star

Joined: Oct, 2011

Posts: 11575

Posted: Jun. 10, 2014 - 10:28 AM ET #62

My style of playing got an older guy at the eldorado in reno super mad at me. He looks like bill nye the science guy and works during the red eye times.

I play pass and don't pass for the come out roll. I will take my chance if the 12 comes out. Next roll, I max out on that box next to the don't pass. So lets say $5 don't pass, max is $10. I loved it when the come out roll is a 4 or 10. When this happens, I buy bet 5,6,8,9 and the total amount to bet for this is the total amount of the $5 don't pass, max $10 =$15

So I would buy 5 ($5), 6($3), 8($2), 9($5) = $15 and this would established my atm machine.

So the second roll is a 5 for instance. I win and I take off bets of the 5. I do know that repeat numbers are common but I tend not to play repeat numbers. Odds are the same in throwing 5,55,555,5555 back to back like this but I'm betting against it since I know my luck and plus, if 3rd roll is a 7, I would lose $5 less. So the 3rd roll lets say is a 6. I win that and I take back the 6 and buy the 5. This is how that old bill nye guy got mad at me. My strategy of playing is my own style but he thinks that I am working him and :"jerking" him off as I am quoting him. So as long as the 7 does not come out, the atm machine keeps on paying. If I hit the spot, I'll just lose the $10 next to my no passline bet since the other $5 pushes with the pass line bet from the inital and them $15 (5,6,8,9) for the buying numbers would stay untouch for the next come out roll. If the 7 comes out, I just hope that I won a few buy bets to still not lose overall. I will lose them $15(5,6,7,8) but will get payed for no pass $5 and max $10 additional no pass bet = $30 coming back including my initial wagering.

Lets say the come out roll is 5,6,8,9. Lets say 8. I then buy 5($5), 6($5), 9($5) = $15 to mach my no pass $5 and max $10. If a roll wins 5,6,9, you take everything off that number and you wait for another win and then you buy that other open spot. In this come out roll session, I don't play 4 or 10 for odds reasons.

This system of play here, we are looking to win a few buys first and after that, the 7 is on our side as it also pays. If the spot comes out, even better as the house does not take our buy bets and we get to play it again with a different spot for the come out roll.

Now adding my style with dice control to avoid the 7 is the missing ingredients.

If there is an error in my style, please advised.

X_____________________________

My style of playing got an older guy at the eldorado in reno super mad at me. He looks like bill nye the science guy and works during the red eye times.

So I would buy 5 ($5), 6($3), 8($2), 9($5) = $15 and this would established my atm machine.

Now adding my style with dice control to avoid the 7 is the missing ingredients.

If there is an error in my style, please advised.

sports_Network

Banned

Joined: Feb, 2009

Posts: 8426

Posted: Jun. 10, 2014 - 12:21 PM ET #63

Quote Originally Posted by Lippsman:

Don't play this way.

Field bets, you are giving the house a 2.78% advantage

If you play the don't pass like I advised, taking 3-5X odds, you are giving the house about a 0.273% edge.

Nothing personal sports network, just want to give the facts and also give everyone every single dollar they can save at the tables. Hopefully this will help your play in the future also.

Lipps, what your saying is understandable, and your % are correct; however, I was responding to StevieD9325 in reference to " a good betting 'scheme' while waiting for the bones" there are numerous variables connected to the MM of the 'field' although they have no comparison to the edge/odds the DO NOT PASS line offers, remember, playing the field, is an every role proposition, (until you get the dice) the do not pass is a one shooter proposition. yes the risk is higher, but so is the profit, two sides to every coin. of course I don't take anything personal from your direction, your a class act...

ChaseWins

Prospect

Joined: Feb, 2014

Posts: 208

Posted: Jun. 10, 2014 - 1:10 PM ET #64

Question. Anyone have a good betting schemes while the bones make their way around the table?

go online and look for book by Sam Grafstein, great money management. Book was last published in the 1990's. very fun betting progressions to follow to stay alive.

StevieD9325

Prospect

Joined: Aug, 2010

Posts: 27

Posted: Jun. 10, 2014 - 1:37 PM ET #65

Big 6 Big 8 very funny.

We walked away with $2500 profit a month ago. I guess I am getting greedy because she throws so good.

Anybody notice that sometimes the 2,3 and 12 come up wayyyy too many times?

oldtimer246

Banned

Joined: Jun, 2014

Posts: 45

Posted: Jun. 27, 2014 - 12:57 PM ET #66

there are guarantees in life here they are

#1 you will live on this planet for a set amount of time

you will work or collect welfare forever and pay taxes.

and every one will 7 out on the dice table.

JimmyDrizzl

Rookie

Joined: May, 2011

Posts: 651

Posted: Jun. 29, 2014 - 2:16 PM ET #67

Quote Originally Posted by oldtimer246:

there are guarantees in life here they are

#1 you will live on this planet for a set amount of time

you will work or collect welfare forever and pay taxes.

and every one will 7 out on the dice table.

Welfare people pay taxes? ..I did not know that...Maybe we should require them to DO SOMETHING for their free check every month.

They could sweep the streets, pull weeds, paint old houses, anything simple and labor intensive...NAH, the democrats would lose votes if that idea was ever implemented.

MortgageMan

Prospect

Joined: Nov, 2006

Posts: 333

Posted: Feb. 13, 2017 - 3:24 PM ET #68

I remember posting in this thread a couple of years ago. I love craps and I don't play anything else unless the wife wants me to sit with her to help her. The last time I played BlackJack I got six twenties in a row and didn't win one of them. F that!! I'll stick with Craps.

Someone was asking about a betting structure that will keep them in the game while they are waiting for their turn to shoot the dice. I was at a table once and the guy beside me was structuring his bets this way. He bet $360 across after the shooter established the point. He let the shooter hit one number and then turned his bets off. A $60 4 or 10 pays $108. A $60 5 or 9 pays $84. A $60 6or 8 pays $70. He kept doing that and before long his rail was full of chips. One of the dealers said he was stupid for turning his bets off because he was missing out on some hits. But, the boxman said that it wasn't so stupid. He was winning minimum $70 per shooter. If you could win $70 per shooter and did that 10 times, you would be up $700.

This got me thinking and I adjusted his method slightly. After the shooter sets the point, I go $120 inside ($30 each on the 5, 6, 7, & 9). If the shooter hits one of my numbers, I do one of two things. If it is a $5 table, I go to $22 inside and I am plus money on the shooter. Even if the shooter 7's out the next roll, I am still up $13.

If it is a $10 table, I just turn off the bets and wait for a new shooter. Sometimes if the shooter seems to be hitting numbers, I will turn the bets back on if he goes to another come out roll. Once he hits one of my numbers, I turn them back off and wait for a new shooter. There have been only a couple of instances where I have missed out on a monster roll but, You can always jump back in at any time. Keep in mind that once the shooter has set the point and his next couple of rolls are: 12, 4, 3. I will tell the dealer to turn my bets off. I don't leave them out there indefinitely. You know the seven is coming and I would rather wait for the next shooter than to keep the bets out there too long.

I am very conservative and this has allowed me to either win some money or limit my losses at the table. Plus, I am drinking for free and having a good time.

Lippsman

Covers Linesmen

Joined: Feb, 2001

Posts: 87445

Posted: Feb. 15, 2017 - 8:04 AM ET #69

You guys are just killing me.........

Waiting for the hot shooter, waiting for the cold shooter, being drunk makes you throw 7 out more.

Pass/don't pass

Max odds

Two come bets

Max odds

If you want to push things a bit place the 6 and 8 if they are not come or pass/don't pass already.

That's it, you have cut the house edge bigtime

If you guys are having a little fun and winning go at it !!!!

But in the long....hell even mid run you are going to get slow steamrolled

Sneezes

Prospect

Joined: Dec, 2016

Posts: 114

Posted: Feb. 21, 2017 - 12:26 PM ET #70

Seems way too complicated

Lippsman

Covers Linesmen

Joined: Feb, 2001

Posts: 87445

Posted: Feb. 21, 2017 - 4:31 PM ET #71

Oh good lord..........Never make come bets.

There are 6 ways to roll a 7 and just 4 ways to roll a 2.3 or 12.

Also don't forget that you can max out the odds where there is no house edge at all.

But whatever works for you.

The way I listed to play is the lowest edge you give the house. If you wan't to get an even better edge find someone who isn't laying free odds and see if they will let you lay the odds.

Yes I can find someone that will let me do this every single time I play.

For the stats guys, not considering the free odds I have knocked the house advantage to around 1.45%. If you factor in max free odds it could be as low as around 1%.

But remember you don't play craps for long term gain, because in the log run the house advantage will eat away at you.

Also don't forget if you are a don't come player you gains a slightly better advantage

MortgageMan

Prospect

Joined: Nov, 2006

Posts: 333

Posted: Feb. 22, 2017 - 6:30 PM ET #72

Well, I went to a casino over the weekend and threw dice. I do a controlled throw and I did very well. I had three sessions. First one I bought in for $300 and cashed out for $665. Second session I cashed in my purple chip and lost $400 of it before taking a break. Third session I bought in for $300 and cashed out for $900. Needless to say the wife was happy!! The wife and I were in the bar and a guy comes up to me and says "Were you on the craps table last night?" I said yes and he said "That was the single best roll I have ever been involved in!! You made me and my buddies some cash! Thanks!!" I probably threw 40ish times before the seven. One guy to my left was betting much bigger than me and he tipped me two green chips when it was over. He was way down and ended up making $2000 on my roll.

I try to get in a rhythm and get the dice to stay on axis. If I can, I tend to get some good rolls going. The second session I couldn't get the dice to stay on axis and had very choppy throws. It might not have helped that I was starting to feel the Makers Mark on the rocks!! I know they say to not drink when shooting dice but, I was having fun and so, what the hell !!

Now, Lippsman is telling us how the book says to play craps. It is the statistically best way to play by lowering the casino's advantage. And, if you want to play by the book, play the way Lippsman explained it. But, later on I saw the guy who had tipped me at the table and asked him how he was doing. He said he was down $14,000. Guess how he was playing. Pass line bet with max odds and two come bets with max odds. He was getting slaughtered because the table was cold. He said the only time he made any money was when I threw the dice. I have played the way Lippsman says is the correct way and I just don't do that well playing that way. I get my best bang for the buck by betting bigger on myself and then, go minimum bets on the inside numbers when others are throwing. After hitting a number or two, I tell the dealer to turn my bets off and I wait for the next shooter. As an example, lets say you have a $10 pass line bet with $50 odds. Then you get two more $10 come bets in action with $50 odds. That is $180 in action. If the seven comes, you lose $180. And, to get two come bets in action, the shooter had to hit two numbers. What if you would have bet $180 across ($30 per number), left it up for the shooter to hit two numbers, then turned off the bets. At a minimum, you would have won $70 if he hits the 6 or 8. So, instead of losing $180, you win $70. That is a $250 swing. Think about how many times you are at a table and the shooter sets point, hits a number or two and then sevens out. Sometimes, it seems like it happens all night long. That is why i started to let the shooter hit one of my numbers and then turn off my bets and wait for the next come out roll. When I shoot, I pretty much leave my bets up and every time I hit a number, I press one unit. I know, very conservative but, it works for me.

This betting structure works for me but, it may not be your cup of tea. The one thing I would caution you on is don't get greedy. Don't be afraid to turn off the bet after the shooter hits your number. If he starts to get on a roll, you can always turn them back on. But, if you leave your bets on to try and hit two or three numbers before turning them off, you can get burned. Once you start to build your bankroll, you can leave the bets up to try and get a couple of hits. This way you can stand to lose a round of bets and not be in trouble with your bankroll.

I love craps and I don't play anything else on the floor unless the wife wants me to sit next to her for help.

Lippsman

Covers Linesmen

Joined: Feb, 2001

Posts: 87445

Posted: Feb. 22, 2017 - 8:06 PM ET #73

Very nice, but don't forget I am talking about the long run. Not just a night or two of playing. In the short run all sorts of statistical anomalies will happen.

MortgageMan

Prospect

Joined: Nov, 2006

Posts: 333

Posted: Feb. 22, 2017 - 10:03 PM ET #74

I hear you Lippsman. But, I think you hit the nail on the head. I am only an occasional player. If I was playing several times a week every week, I would probably change my strategy. But, I need to play conservative and try to conserve my bank roll while still using the stats of the game. Since the average shooter rolls an average of 8 times and once the point is established it takes 3.5 rolls for a pass line decision, I try to make a couple of dollars on the shooter as quickly as possible before the dreaded seven comes. I probably won't be able to play again for several weeks. I will make sure to come back and let everyone know how I did.