Pacquaio v Bradley

I think Bradley is a live dog here I really do. BUT this is a HUGE step up in the level of opposition..What I like about Bradley is he truly believes he is going to win. Thats why +450 is a big price on a guy who is undefeated, a fine boxer (does everything well) who is so mentally strong, fighting against a guy who has not looked good his past two fights.

Maybe Pacman is in decline. I guess time will tell, but something tells me he is going to really show up Saturday. He is off the booze, gambling and I think he is more focused for this fight now that his private life has calmed down. Manny will always struggle with Marquez and I think Bradleys style will suit him more..

I think this will be a great dust up while it lasts. Bradley unlike Mosley will go out on his shield. He won't try to survive until round 12. Therefore his bravery could be his undoing. I don't see this going 12 rounds. I think Bradleys come forward style is made for Pacman. I think he will have success but Pacquios class and experience of these big fights, should mean he gets the win. I don't see Bradley quitting and he would rather go out on his shield then survive...

Jerseyboy hasn't a clue if he thinks Bradley can outbox Pacquaio. That will never happen as Pac is too fast. I think Bradley has over trained for the fight and the spotlight off 24/7 hasn't suited him. He does better under the radar. All these things added up means for me....

The play is Pacman via KO @ +135

Well said MACK ....   ... I think Pacman wins by T.K.O  he's corner will stop the fight 

I tend to agree with this play.......although for a slightly more obscure reason. I watched with some interest a video of a lean, glowing Bradley in the gym. He was extolling the virtues of his Vegan diet. He says he's now eating a soy-based protein, in the place of all animal protein.

Sorry, but Vegan may be the healthiest diet in the world, and it may give you a warm fuzzy feeling, and increase your life span....but it also lowers your testosterone. You need cholesterol to form testosterone.

Ironically, the diet most likely to make you a great athlete in the short run, which is a diet with plenty of animal fat and protein, is also the worst for you in the long run. But you FIGHT in the short run, and need those high T levels (in particular against Pac, who has....ehhmmm...VERY high T levels).

I remember back in the 80's after the Niners had won a number of Superbowls. Some new-age grass eater came along and took the whole team off their meat-based diet and had them eating fish and vegetables. Boom. They didn't even make the playoffs that year, with almost the same players as the year before.

You can't overstate the value of high testosterone in boxing (or most sports, for that matter), which is why so may boxers juice. Deliberately adopting a diet which will do the OPPOSITE of what you need to do to maintain high T levels can NOT be a good thing.
To make matters worse, soy increases estrogen in men, which is the last thing on earth you want if you're trying to compete in athletics at the highest levels.

Bradley is highly skilled, so he'll do well in SPITE of this, but I doubt he'll be able to overcome the handicap of his too-healthy diet against a T-monster like Pac.

My money is on a Pac KO, with a hedge of a Bradley on points.

Good write up Mack, I agree with almost all of it, especially Bradley going out on his shield.

I do believe Bradley CAN box on par with Pac-man, BUT he tends to be TOO aggressive and becomes a SLUGGER, if he can just BOX he can do well.

Especially since Pac hasn't looked his best lately, first real BOXER he is facing since Marquez.. actually this will be the only fight since Marquez that isn't a BOB Arum "fighter", or catch weight.

We all know Clottey was diving, Margarito was a joke, Cotto and De la hoya looked as if they were DOA because of catch weight.

If Bradley comes out and shows Manny no respect he will do well, if he tries to feel Pac-man out, he will get KO'd because Pac-man is that quick.'

I'm thinking Bradley gets KO'd or Manny finally gets exposed from a legit fighter who isn't there for a lay down.

Mack-Isn't it a safer bet to take  fight PROP ITD +130? This way if he ko's pacman (you never know) you double your chances at winning, Hedged with a BRADLEY DECISION... OR POINTS?

I JUST CAN'T SEE  them exchanging for 12 rounds, Bradley takes way too many chances, and there's always a chance of  Bradley fighting a perfect fight and exposing Pac-man.

SO ITD +130 with Bradley on points or decision... (depending on the odds).

Basically same as yours Mack except i'm covering both fighters with a KO/stoppage with ITD prop, which is essentially same price as yours... but covers BOTH fighters.

If Manny wins he's winning BY KO, if Bradley wins it could be by stoppage  but likely a decision for HIM.

       I like these bets!
   Feel free to comment!
                 
 

Bradley to get KO on GODS number 7 ..good luck to all.

The 49ers losing didn't have much to do with their diet (as many still were juicing as passing urine test were easier then). Bill Walsh left as coach and he is the reason for the West Coast Offense and all the new looks they do. He knew that when Lombardi said football is and always will be a running game, that it was true. He just changed the fact the every time you wanted to run why not start past the defensive line and have athletic backs and receivers to go from that point. This also confused defenses as it allowed their offensive line a break from all force forward to a false forward then retreat. Much I can say but having Bill Walsh, Montana, Young, Rice, Taylor, Craig...etc... they were OK (LOL). For instance about speed... Renaldo Nehemiah was the world record holder and the first man to run the high hurdles in under 13 seconds, but unfortunately he wasn't a good receiver but had to be double covered because his speed, leaving an open man! Back to boxing!

You are correct regarding protein. Simply explained for readers, it would sound like plant food would make better health and stronger overall, but the problem is assimilation of the protein. A plants DNA protein DNA structure is near 1% that of humans. Animal protein DNA is 99% similar, so the protein is easily processed and used. Also, plants lack several and a few key amino acids that you have to supplement. That was the big thing during the creatine phase. Nearly every user said they gained energy, strength and gained weight (half water bloating), but it quickly plateaus off. Roughly 2 to 3 pounds of raw meat or fish contain the equivalent of 5 grams of pure creatine.
Bradley and his diet: Most fighters are either born with punching power or not. Then you learn fundamentals and use your legs to generate power and twisting to gain torque. All this with proper punching. JMM is a master at being able to measure and close (or space himself) to gain maximum damage when he punches. Just before full extension and what is called the snap at the end of a punch is what you want! When Cotto smothered Mayweather, this was the main reason as he could only take so many clean hard punches at distance before cuts, swelling or a KO would be coming. Bradley doesn't have a natural strong punch, I'd rate with his style of jabbing and quick accurate punches maybe just average (no way a one-punch KO hitter even with a clear clean shot).
Manny and his focus: Regardless of focus or not, the last thing physically to go is punching power. Manny has it on his jabs, straight right hand, and his newly developed right hook. Manny would be smart to walk down Bradley with his jab, and go to the body early as I have yet to see Bradley tested to the body. I'd suggest that to Bradley but for one he doesn't possess the power and leaving yourself exposed to a one-punch KO fighter is not a thing to do often.
Manny with his short arms gets that full power close in and that is one reason Mayweather would not be excited about. Mayweather would not be up against the ropes like he was against Cotto. He would use distance.
Back to nutrition: Testosterone and the levels are very important to keep the balance of speed, power and stamina.

Good write up Mack, I agree with NuttyRich's idea of ITD +130 being a better idea. Manny will bring it, as he has heard all of the bad talk about him after his last fight (JMM will always be a tough fight for Manny) and Bradley won't just go through the motions for a payday, he knows there is pretty much no way Manny loses on the scorecard (as JMM knows all to well). This is Bradley chance at the big time (biggest fight of his career), he has alot to prove after calling out Khan, then backing down. Can't wait til Saturday, I wonder if Floyd will be watching. 

I've seen Pac-man tested to the body and he doesn't like it, Marquez although not big power shots really got him to the body and Manny's response was to touch his boxing shorts, stop and  reset.

NO ONE likes it to the BODY.

I don't know what this talk about his diet, he's a professional, biggest fight of his life, you can see he's one of those gym rats.

His conditioning and Pac-man's conditioning have never been questioned both guys are well conditioned.

I've only ever seen a fighter lose two ways before the opening bell... it's either OVER Preparing for a fight or NOT preparing at all, never seen a DIET play a real factor.

Some are making PAC-man a KO artist, he really isn't... I mean really hasn't scored a true "knock out" since Ricky Hatton who was battling alcohol OUTSIDE the ring, and well to be honest was Target practice since coming to the states.

Bradley has some POP, he doesn't have ONE PUNCH knock out power, I don't even think he has one punch KNOCK DOWN power, he's more of as combo fighter, accumulation of punches.

Pac-man is a KNOCK down Power guy, not PURE KO like many people seem to think.

You don't need to be a knock out artist, or have tremendous power to score a KO, to TKO... corner can stop a fight... a cut anything.

This is TIMOTHY Bradley, we do know he loves to use his HEAD as a 3rd punch right? And fighting a SOUTHPAW might happen more than fans like.

Let's continue the good chat about the fight and add insight... sorry for hijacking your thread Mack lol! I think this should be the thread that continues until the fight.

                                   

The thing is, you wouldn't ever really "See a guy lose because of diet"....any more than you'd "see" a guy lose because he'd not been getting enough sleep, or been arguing with his wife. He'd just lose, and you wouldn't know why.

Diets low on animal fat, LOWER testosterone. This is a biological fact. Lower T means less power and aggression. I doubt anyone really disagrees with this any more.

The reason for this is that cholesterol is a precursor of testosterone...so if you want naturally high testosterone, you NEED the cholesterol. If Bradley isn't juicing he will come in with a severe disadvantage in the testosterone department.

Interestingly, a study was done with chimps, which are just a couple of DNA strands away from being humans. When they'd put two male chimps in a cage...they'd almost ALWAYS end up fighting. The scientists conducting the study would then draw blood and do testosterone tests on the chimps. The one with the higher testosterone levels was almost always the one who won.

This is just a tangent to the main arguments for who will win this fight, but it's not an insignificant one. But it's why I think that if the fight is a slugfest Bradley has little chance. But if the flow of the fight ends up being one of boxing, rather than slugging, Bradley might have a shot to win on points. Hence, the hedge bet on Bradley by dec.

London: I was in agreement with regarding animal foods and testosterone, but I felt the 49ers had many other issues that were much bigger factors. So many elements to a teams success hinges on just as much luck as skill (regarding injuries, draft, etc...). Like most Dynasties, they rule and sacrifice the domination now for a likely downward future.

Chimps are rated just over 98% of the human DNA, but that is when you are comparing single-nucleotide polymorphisms. Those couple of stands differ by nearly 35 million single-nucleotides. So taken the highest rate (98.4%; lowest around 94% in other studies), 35 million is still a very long way. It is almost misleading to the average person who thinks that just 1% more for the chimps would make them nearly human... WRONG! It is a very long way. The similarities in diets allow for the easier assimilation in our diets that increase T-levels.
As far as Bradley goes, he seems in peak condition always and I wouldn't be concerned with his diet as his previous performances have been very impressive. I think it comes down to nature and natural power, and less nurture of the diet.
Nice write-up in response to the correlation of the fight. GL!

What is PROP bet ITD?

Guys have a habit of resorting to boxing once Pacquaio starts lacing them with left hands.  Bradley is not a dumb guy in the ring.  He's very smart.  If he starts tasting shots that dont feel so good he's not going to bum-rush in like an idiot.  He knows that it doesnt matter if he loses this fight as long as he's not embarrassed in doing so.  Bradley would rush in with other opponents b/c he didnt have any respect for them.  He respects Manny, probably too much.  This will result in home moving and boxing more than people expect.  

London2K, I'm curious as to what year you are talking about regarding the 49ers in the 80s.  I thought maybe 86 because that was year Montana hurt his back in game 1, but 49ers did make playoffs still as he came back for 2nd half of season.  After 49ers won Super Bowl in 84 season, they made playoffs every year after in 80s.

This was a LOOOONG time ago, but looking back...I think it was 1982...which was a strike-shortened year. I was living the the 'States then.....in San Francisco, in fact. You won't read about it anywhere, because it wasn't treated as a big deal.....and I've never seen it used as a reason for the Niners going into the toilet after having just won a Superbowl....but it's my theory. I remember an obscure article in the SF Chronicle about the Niners' new "nutritional consultant" and how he was going to do away with the "old fashioned" dietary habits of NFL teams, which typically featured lots of beef and other fatty foods.

Nobody back then...including me.....knew that the diet that was so good for you in the LONG run, was the kiss of death if you were in a sport requiring explosive strength. The low fat, low cholesterol diet doesn't hurt marathon runners....in fact it makes them better at their sport. But for NFL, boxing, weights, etc, you NEED those high T levels. And if you take saturated fat out of your diet...you ain't going to have them...unless you're also juicing. Ok, some of the Niners no doubt WERE juicing....but not ALL of them. You don't have to compromise a whole team to turn them from winners to also-rans.

Bradley has a lot of skills, so he will still do well...but that's not really the issue. The issue is that if he was getting reasonable amounts of red meat....or other sources of cholesterol, he'd do even better.

As it happens, in my opinion, Bradley's BIGGEST problem is that he lacks a "keep away" punch. I don't know how many on here have ever boxed...more than a few I'd bet.....but anyone who's boxed knows that if you have no fear of your opponent's BEST punch....there's nothing to keep you from walking right through his defence....take a few shots on the way in that don't hurt you seriously, and then knock the fuck out of him.

This is what has made Wlad's career. Try bum rushing him and you'll get hit by his nuclear-powered overhand right...and everyone he fights KNOWS this. The fear of this punch keeps them away...just look at Haye, who seemed mostly concerned with not being a victim of Wlad's "money punch".

But Bradley doesn't really have that.....no super-hard overhand right....no terrifying left hook. So my guess is that Pac will not be afraid of taking a few medium-strength shots to get inside. And Pac DOES have a money punch, which I reckon he is going to successfully apply to Bradley's head. Kendal Holt put Bradley down twice. Holt's got a good punch, but not at the same level as Pac. So logic says that eventually Bradley's fancy footwork will fail him, and Pac will barge in and take him out.

But if the random flow of the fight ends up with Pac not being able to land the bomb, Bradley would have a chance to win on points. I don't think that's the most likely outcome, but a small cover bet at +700 seems sensible to me. My bets are sized in such a way that if Pac wins by KO, I clean up. If Bradley wins on points, I break even, as the winnings on that bet will just cover the loss on the Pac by KO bet. Any other result......and I'm toast:-)

Pacquiao looked like dog shit on the scales. Obviously it's not a bodybuilding contest, but if you compare stills from his previous fights the difference is significant. 

Walk I missed the weigh in, buy will see it at 8 on replay.

This fight is close to even. I agree with the judging, Marquez I had up 2 rounds worst a draw.. and Pac-man got rounds... he clearly lost.

People are talking about his diet .. he's been a VEGAN for 4 years (Bradley), he's still unbeaten and don't care if he ate 50 steaks the week before fight he doesn't punch hard some guys do some guys don't.

On the topic of stamina and power... isn't it Manny's camp who is in disarray? Alex Ariza pretty much given the shaft because Pac doesn't want to put 100% in.

Also add Pac-man's new found religious reformation... this has the makings of an upset!

Manny you didn't hear the voice of god, you stopped this temporary lifestyle because your wife would take 1/2!

Also man up don't let your wife take the blame for YOU looking like shit against Marquez, she actually went on 24/7 and said yes it was because of her and their outside trouble.... give me a break.

I will see the weigh in that tells a lot of how well manny trained.

As of right now +360 with Bradley isn't looking to shabby!

Back after I see the weigh in and last episode of 24/7!

Good luck guys!
     

Then you posted "This was a LOOOONG time ago, but looking back...I think it was 1982...which was a strike-shortened year. I was living the the 'States then.....in San Francisco, in fact. You won't read about it anywhere, because it wasn't treated as a big deal...."

--- My mistake if I misunderstood your quote do to a certain time. I remember you said they won superbowls... and also 1982. The 49ers only had 1 Superbowl up to that point so maybe it was the plural or dating that through me off. I'm not disputing your point, but actually agreeing with it overall. I think it didn't have the impact on the team as some reporter quoted regarding their new nutrition plan.

Previously to Holyfield winning major heavyweight fights and becoming champ, they stated he couldn't be dominate because he lacked power being a smaller guy. He did extensive weight training and an extremely strict diet built to raise T-levels (but very bad for your body and heart; he even claimed this on David Letterman show). People failed to recognize with speed and accuracy and weighing over 200lbs of pure muscle and also being able to put your whole body in to a punch because of your reflex and speed helps you create the energy and power needed for a KO punch!!! I remember he made a terrible strategy fighting Bowe his first fight and losing. He made it an inside fight, and Bowe was an excellent inside fighter and mediocre at best stand-up fighter. He let a man more than 30lbs and almost a half a foot larger lean on him and dig in and trade... his punches lost steam as he was physically wore down!

......... WTF you smokin' ???  yeah thats ryt your mr.universe will eat " SHIT "  dont even blink coz' your muscle guy  will go down & out quick...start looking for excuses MORON  

he only has 12 KO's in 29 fights. if you watched the Peterson fight, the Alexander fight, and the Casamayor fight, you could see hit them all with flush rights, time and time again, but simply could not hurt them enough.  Casamayor was a statue, but still stood there and took shots.

Manny's punches would have knocked those 3 cats out clean.

Bradley can only win by KO, he cannot outpunch, outwork, outpoint Manny.

To beat Manny, you must have power, you must take it to him.  Bradley does not bring the leather.  Manny does.  Manny will not need to respect Bradley's punch.  Bradley must respect Manny's.  that will be the story of the fight.

Manny to win by decision or KO, it's as simple as that.

Pacquiao looking bad I'd have to disagree. You are correct he appears more water bloated and less ripped than previous fights.
This can be for several reasons:
- His age (33) might be starting to effect his metabolism and shredding excess weight. (Not a theory I believe to be the main reason)
- His apparent lack of focus people have been saying. (Possibly a small role, but another theory I don't believe.)
- Many's last few performances he seemed to have less steam and energy in the later rounds than previous fights. It is very possible that they felt over-training would be a downfall for this bout as they believe Manny has a huge natural edge in power, speed and overall athleticism and the only way for Bradley to compare to that is if Manny was extremely sick or over-trained. (I believe this to be the correct theory.)
- This is also the heaviest weigh-in for Manny and I believe Roach feels that the only main way Bradley can compete is if Manny is over-trained and Bradley can win late rounds as Bradley has a terrific work rate and jab that allows him to take minor breathers during rounds. So why shed 3lbs on the scale to look more muscular when it only can hurt you? Anyone in boxing, bodybuilding or fitness training knows that a few pounds makes a huge difference in how they appear. Since 2009 Manny has had 6 fights and averaged a weight of just over 143lbs. He weighed in at 147lbs which is about 2.7% of a body weight difference. If it was water weight and not muscle plays a huge role is muscularity appearance. An example would be abdominal muscles (the six pack look). It varies on men but the range for BFI starts around 11%, but most strive for 8% or less and at that range 99% achieve that look. Manny added nearly 3% weight (I wouldn't say it is fat, but water weight), therefore a person with 8% BFI and a nice six-pack then gains 3% and reaching 11% loses his six pack and appears less muscular. I can assure you though that the abdominal muscles are still there and are just as strong and big.

I don't dispute Manny's appearance compared to previous fights, but I think they believe having stamina and careful to not over-train is their major concern. They believe Manny is physically much superior and Bradley despite his great physical appearance does not have the power to keep Manny from walking him down. Roach figures Manny will either catch Bradley and KO him, or win on the scorecards as it is very hard to win a fight when you are going backwards most of the time and also the fact that Manny has the fans that sway the judges and his Mega-Star Money Fights also effect the scoring!!!

When does a bad or different physical appearance play a major role in a fight?
Take Oscar when he fought Sturm. He looked terrible and even his normally chiseled jaw and face looked bloated. His performance was terrible, and his upcoming Mega-Fight with Hopkins was in the balance. I remember watching and Hopkins was very concerned as he was finally going to get a MEGA PAYDAY. That was an example of an over-weight fighter that appeared he barely trained and his performance showed it.
Now, using Oscar again but at the other spectrum. Oscar was nearly 36 when he took on the new sensation in boxing... Manny Pacquiao. Oscar averaged 154.5lbs, and he usually weighed 154lbs for more than half his recent bouts. We all scene what happened after Roy Jones Jr went to Heavyweight then dropped 20lbs to fight Tarver at age 34. The major problem is losing that weight and he lost more muscle weight than fat and water, therefore draining his physical attributes. Maybe if he did that at age 25, his body might have recovered, but after so many years and at that age, the body isn't built to lose that much muscle weight and compete in a sport that relies heavily on physical attributes, especially Roy Jones who was far from a conventional fighter and always used his unmatched physical attributes to win fights rather than technique. Roy went downhill and never came back up. Back to Oscar who weighed 150lbs at the weigh-in against Manny. Take a look at this link and tell me he doesn't look physically drained. OSCAR PHOTO . I realize Oscar was never had the muscular physique look many mid-weight fighters have but it was clearly evident that if this man fought anywhere near how he looked, it was going to be bad, and it went BAD!
When I see these weigh-ins it's apparent to me how the fight will go the majority of the time.
One more example was Rafael Marquez vs Israel Vasquez. After one of the greatest Trilogies (IMO) they had a fourth fight. The line surprised me as it opened -140 Marquez and went to -160 immediately. I wondered why as Marquez was the hard punching precision boxer, while Vazquez was a monster power puncher that changed fights with one punch hooks that didn't even have to land totally clean. The first two fight were one win each by KO, and the third was a 12 round rally for Vazquez with a last round knockdown to win the fight. So, why would such a close match that slightly favored Vazquez? I wondered if it was his nose problems, maybe an unknown injury, etc... I stopped guessing and saw the side-by-side comparison. Vazquez-Marquez IV It was clear Vazquez needed a paycheck but he came to fight, but all his physical problems showed his condition previous to the fight. Marquez was always more defined, but look at the side-by-side of their third fight that was two years earlier Vazquez-Marquez III . Clearly Vazquez retired after an uncontested beating he suffered that ended in round three. He was a warrior but so many fights that were wars caught up to him quickly.
I'm sure many can dispute, or explain other reasons that are better or worse, but this was my feeling after a weigh-ins that effected who and how much I would wager.
To me, Manny not being as ripped doesn't speak enough to discredit his condition and future performance.

I saw the weigh in, I don't think Pac-man looked that bad, I was expecting a lot worse, far from dog shit lol.

Bradley looks TOO RIPPED, can't  say the guy didn't train and he has the confidence.

While Bradley has ALL the tools to beat Pac-man, I just worry about him in the early rounds.

I'm  playing it safe with ITD +135  with a small play with Bradley on decision +565.

Just feel if Bradley can last the early rounds, even the first 4, this is HIS FIGHT.

If Bradley boxes, and stays to ONLY boxing the first half of the fight (Jab, quick straight right, and only counter Pac-man he will win, don't sleep on the 12 KO's... body shots, and accumulation of punches, can get a fight stopped!


If  He tries to trade early... it's sleepy time for him. (Bradley that is)


Good luck to everyone regardless of who you bet!
                           

Emanuel Steward said something interesting about about Pacquiao post weigh-in. It was subtle, but very clear...

I agree with walk about the weigh in. Pac is normally ripped but his definition on his torso is not there (the way it once was). Bradley looks pumped..Too pumped if you ask me. I am sticking with my play of Pac KO for the reason I don't think Bradley has ever fought at this level and on this stage. He is tooo wound up IMO