N. Carolina at S. Carolina

UNC abandoning a pro-style run-heavy offense?  I don't think that's quite right.  Larry Fedora brought the running game BACK to Chapel Hill.  It had been missing for 30 years, since Ethan Horton, Kelvin Bryant, and Famous Amos. 

Fedora's spread offense definitely isn't what they were running at UNC before they got there, but they've been relying on the QB to throw it or run it for a long, long time, which isn't a pro-style run-heavy offense, either.

spurrier hasn't done all THAT at SC--until the past two seasons.  he was only 11 games over .500 after 6 seasons and was 1-4 in bowl games during that run.

until he wins at least an SEC champ, he may be god in SC and FL, but not elsewhere.

 I respect your opinion mws and have enjoyed reading your contributions over the years but I'm not sure what point that you are trying to make here.

 As far as Fedora bringing the run back to UNC, that is a laughable assertation. Fedora inherited Giovanni Bernard perhaps the best TB to play in Chapel Hill since Kelvin Bryant. Bernard actually had less yards under Fedora as a sophmore (1228) then he did as a freshman (1253). As far as a missing running game for the last 30 years, ALL of the following have eclipsed the 1,000 yard mark since Ethan Horton did it; Derrick Fenner, Kennard Martin, Natrone Means (twice), Leon Johnson, Curtis Johnson, Jonathan Linton, and Gio (twice). Gio is also the first back since Mike Voight in 1976 to run for back to back 1200 yard seasons.

 Can you name a former Tarheel QB that was drafted in the NFL and has thrown a TD in an NFL game? There has only been ONE T.J. Yates and he would have never seen the field if Schaub wasn't injured. That is because UNC football has been pound the ball and supplement it with some passes every now and then. The Tarheels have NEVER run a spread offense that favors the passing game like this year's offense does. Sure you could tell me about Darian Durant and Ronald Curry but they were both "dual purpose" QBs and were not NFL type talent that could run this system like Renner can.

 Do you think that Fedora has the "43 Dive" in mind when he suggests that UNC will eclipse 900 offensive plays this season? There is no way that the 'Heels will abandon the running game, that simply would never work plus as mentioned they have some real talent there. But UNC will be a pass first, up-tempo team this year. and I think that they will be fun to watch and I expect Renner to be spectacular.   

 After reading my above post, I feel that I oversimplified things and would like to add some additional info.

 "That is because UNC football has been pound the ball and supplement it with some passes every now and then"  I should have said UNC has always set up the pass with the run. They would typically recruit TBs from NC and O lineman from VA,OH,and PA. and pound the ball until you loaded "the box" then they would throw it.

 With Fedora/Renner they simply pick you apart with the pass until you drop back in coverage and then they gash you with the run. It's the complete opposite of traditional Carolina football. For example, Renner set all-time team records last year for Passing yards (3501), Passing attempts (441), and Passing completions (287) AND  he had a 1200 yard rusher!  For comparison,when UNC had Kelvin Bryant, Tyrone Anthony, and Ethan Horton, QBs Stankavage/Elkins combined for 1835 yards passing, 256 attempts, and 132 completions.

The Tarheels were ranked in the top 5 that year in the preseason poll and lost their opener to Pitt 7-6.  It's a pretty safe wager that this offense led by Renner will not be held to 6 points.

I've been drinkin' tonight boys so I aplologize for multiple posts it's definitely not my normal style but I keep forgetting to mention relevant points.

In UNC football pre-Fedora, 60% of the passes were "play action". I dare anyone to count more than a small handful of "play action" passes in the current Tarheel offense on any given saturday. And those that are will probably be fake swing passes in the flats to the TB rather than handoffs. I will say it for the final time, Chapel Hill has never seen anything like this offense. 

spurrier hasn't done all THAT at SC--until the past two seasons.  he was only 11 games over .500 after 6 seasons and was 1-4 in bowl games during that run.

until he wins at least an SEC champ, he may be god in SC and FL, but not elsewhere.

 I've seen it myself and agree with you 100%.  As a Vol fan I hope that Butch Jones realizes that he'll have to use a slower paced version of his Cincinnati style spread O or risk killing his defense.

 Honestly the term "spread" is so generic that I hate to even use it. In Urban's Gainesville version the Gators were only passing 40% of the time. When Mumme/Leach were in Lexington they threw it 70% of the time. Technically Georgia Tech runs a spread offense and they only throw it less than 20% of the time.

 I can think of a couple of occasions where a spread team played a top level SEC defense and moved the ball very effectively even though neither team could win their game. When LSU played for the NC in 2012 they had one of the best defenses in the nation yet they gave up 463 passing yards and 533 total yards to WVU and in 2008 Ole Miss had one of the top defenses in the SEC but they let Graham Harrell throw for nearly 400 yards and 4 TDs in the '09 Cotton Bowl. And looking at South Carolina's game LY against ECU, the 'Cocks won easily on the scoreboard but the Pirates did complete 30 passes for 333 yards. The one thing that the above losing teams had in common were multiple interceptions.

That's where I think that UNC will be different, Renner is far and away better than either of the two QBs that ECU used last year against SC and Larry Fedora coached QBs throw an amazingly low percentage of interceptions. In his five year HC career, his teams have thrown 128 Tds against only 38 Ints. That's a ratio of 25.6 / 7.6 and that is very impressive.

 I know that I sound like a UNC fan in this thread but the truth is I do not even like them. I just think that this could be a good spot for them here, but betting against SC is a very scary proposition and one that I may ultimately decide against. I do know that in week 3  I will almost certainly be wagering against the 'Heels vs. Ga.Tech because that is a terrible spot for UNC and almost an unwinnable game imo.

GL this season wheels. 

@29--UNC QB Renner not THAT much better than ECU QB Carden.

Renner is 6'3" 225lbs and Carden is 6'2" 218lbs

Renner ly 65% completion for 3556yds 28tds 7ints; preseason davey obrien candidate, will set most of UNC's qb records 

Carden who didnt win starting job til wk 3 ly 66% completion for 3116 yds 23tds 10ints; ran the 6th most efficient offense in redzone ly.

Obviously ACC is tougher than ConfUSA but talent is talent.

Also, S. Carolina returns 3/4 starters from #17 pass def.  They dominated an even better qb and team at home in Georgia.  only thing against S. Carolina is they tend to start slow in first games but this is if not his best team one of Spurriers best teams he's had there in 9 seasons.               

 First off, I love SC's team this year and out of all of the preseason Top 10 teams I would prefer the Gamecocks to win the final BCS Championship. My original post was about the over 55 total that was posted for this game.

 Renner played in 12 games LY (no Bowl game) and Carden played in 12 games LY. If the basis for your argument is that Carden's numbers were almost as good as Renner's were in 2012 it is a tenuous one at best. C-USA was the worst conference defending the pass last year. If UNC had played ECU's schedule (S.Miss, UAB, Memphis, Tulane, Houston, Marshall, ULL, UTEP, App.St., etc.), Renner would have had 4000 yards and 40 TDs.

  Another important factor is that last year was year number three for Lincoln Riley's "Air Raid" system and for Carden in Greenville (he redshirted as a FR. and ran the scout squad). Meanwhile Renner was in a completely different system and he said that he never felt comfortable in it until the final few games of the season. Now this season he says that he will be able to make plays on reaction without having to think about how he's going to execute each play.

 And finally Renner's Tarheels played Carden's Pirates last year and the Renner was CLEARLY the much better QB as UNC won 27-6.

Renner - 27/43 - 321yds. - 2 TDs - 0 Ints - and 3 rushes for 19 yards.

Carden - 17/30 - 124yds. - 0 TDs - 0 Ints. - and 9 rushes for -40 yrds.

 Do you really think that Shane Carden is in the same class as Bryn Renner?

@29---good points, no i dont think Carden is close to the caliber qb that Renner is but he's not bad or average, he's a very good qb for his conference. 

Thanks nickey. I didn't mean for post #47 to come off so harsh.  

I think that Carden is great for ECU's system and he should have a very productive year. Lincoln Riley is great with QBs and this will be the fourth season that he has worked with Shane. Dominique Davis threw for 3967 yards and 37 TDs in his junior year. But with three ACC schools and a tougher C-USA slate on the schedule it probably isn't realistic to expect those kind of numbers from Carden this year but he will be better.

I need to get back to Greenville for a game this season, I love that place. 

GOOD LlCK to you this season!