Crypto currency in a death spiral..

Just shows the lack of credible information out there.

This is fake news if there ever was fake news.

What banks accept anything for cryptocurrency?  Like I walk in to Bank of America and ask the lady behind the glass for 2 bitcoins please?  huh?

The actual news here is that Coinbase (NOT A BANK) changed from charging CC's as a purchase, and now allows CC's as a cash advance.  If you actually consider that news.  One exchange changed their CC policy.

Most of the news is garbage. All in attempt to manipulate the price so the whales can buy in at their price.

Btc is not going away and it's only a matter of time before the cc market soars again. For now we remain sideways.

The value in bitcoin is the way that purchases can evade Reserve currency. And central banks.  The ability to use to make purchases and then be shipped hard reserves commodities such as gold and silver and being able to then purchase cash.

if you want to make sales .

the fact that governments are trying to manipulate the crypto currency is the fact of the currency is a real threat to the federal reserve systems.

Bitcoin and the other cryptos will eventually be driven down to zero.

What is its value based on? There are no underlying economic fundamentals to base it against.

It is ultimately decided by a group of people giving it a price based on absolutely nothing.

As a currency it is absolutely useless. Way to volatile, expensive to use.

I enjoyed that.

Ever try to spend a confederate note at one time it was worth something today maybe to collectors well now is dollar is a form of digital currency. We do not even have the paper to match the currency 

Is the US dollar used as a store of value?

With Bitcoin, why does one need it? People primarliy buy it not for use as a currency but in the hope that it will rise in value. As it rises people will hoard it, not use it as a curency. 

Do i need bitcoin? No, does anyone really need it? No.

The only way hypothetically that Bitcoin will rise is for example say a drug company finds a cure for a disease, and that drug company only accepts Bitcoin as a means of payment for the drug, then people will need it. But can you ever see such a scenrio?

Or if the federal reserve demands you pay taxes in Bitcoin, which will never happen.

Or if for example all bread shop owners only accept Bitcoin. This will never happen.

Another reason is if the price keeps on rising, then ones own dollar becomes less valuable in comparison to it. If that is the case, why buy Bitcoins or any crypto? As there are zero barriers to entry, just make up your own crytpo. All you need is a few programmers etc etc.

The whole thing is nonsense and just shows the psychology of human beings

Nature is spot on. Pay attention bible smasher.

Blockchain technology. Focus your research there as opposed to mined coins which in fact are extremely valuable. Will clear up any questions as to the value of crypto currency and it's future.

Ok rosto say a drug maker finds a a cure for all cancer but the fed lobbied by those that TREAT cancer blocks it and does not allow it through the fda. A bit coin can buy it a fed reserve note can’t. Hey whom I to judge you for buying that drug with how you pay for it...

Little closer than how about narcane a life saving drug for those that are addicted to opiates. The fed blocks the sale of narcane well our governor has. So someone knows that he or a friend will eventually need this med. 

so they could use a bit coin purchase to buy the drug. Then this is done without the authority of any government.... bit coins need for anominity and the ability to use without the intanglements of the federal reserve has then merits that within a market of the underground this form of payment is valued 

I am noticing something here and at other forums as well...

The resident Christians - the real bible thumpers - are anti Crypto.

Is that a coincidence or is there some wacko thing behind this?

Honestly curious.

What on earth does ones religious beliefs have anything to do with crytpocurrency? 

What is the value of crypto based on? It is based on simply a community of people giving it value based absolutely nothing objective.

It is like both of us pulling out a $20 US bill and i say mine is more valuable than yours. Why is it? Because i and my friends say so. Based on what? Nothing, just mine and my friends opinion. What is mine and my friends opinion based on? Well, nothing...We just say so

When you buy a share, you are buying a right to a future earning/income. Demand for the share will rise or fall in accordance with the expectation of the underlying company's profits. The company's profits are subject to a number of tangible/objective facts.

If a companies profits rise, then that companies share price with all things being equal will rise because the demand for the shares will increase to reflect the increase in future earnings.

Why is Bitcoin rising? Why does one need it? Why not look at the other 1500 cryptos on the market? 

It is nothing more than a community sharing a mass delusion and people who hold it trying to convince other people of this mass delusion.

It is based on absolutely nothing.

It is attractive to speculators because of its huge volatility. How on earth can a currency being accepted widely where it is massive volatile?

When you go to dinner, by the time you finish eating it, if you were to pay by bitcoin, it will either cost you nothing (from the time you entered the restaraunt) or it could cost you double by the time you ate it?

For the restaraunt, it is possible that they gave the meal away for free by the time they convert it to FIAT.

The way it is currently is absolutely nonsense.

Honestly ,in its CURRENT form, it is a group of whales, rich elites, scammers and hackers PREYING on the stupidity on the rest of the population.

I have no idea why I engage in debates that in the end 8 people total are going to read, and take a significant amount of time to articulate, and will be rejected by the morons on the other side anyway.... But here goes.  It is a character flaw of mine.

Rostos:  "who needs it (cryptocurrency)"

I will assume this is a serious question, and give you a few examples of just who needs it.

First - Do you know how much credit card processing companies charge retailers to do a transaction?  It is anywhere from 2-4%.  That means YOU, as someone who buys anything by a credit card, are paying 2-4% too much to a company (mafia) who is making passive money just because they are a monopoly and in the way of you and the retailer.  Do you think the world would benefit from cutting out this (now) unnecessary middle man?  Do you think more mom and pop retailers (both online and brick and mortar) could survive if they weren't a slave to Visa and MC?  If not, do some reading on the subject.  Crypto can take the place of CC processors.

Second - How about banks?  Ever try to send an international wire - the most current and up to date way to pay anyone through a bank?  You go to a bank branch, talk to an employee who basically guesses how to input your receivers information in to an antiquated system - and then hits send - and in to the black hole it goes.  You now sit and hope that several days (yes, days) later the receipient receives it.  But guess what happens along the way?  Banks take little bites out of your funds, and your originating bank and receiving bank also take fees.  Guess what else happens?  Currency exchange fees by banks.  

Lets look at a real life example of a wire I sent to pay an invoice I had in Germany:  I sent a wire on a Monday.  The invoice was for 630 Euros.  On Monday, the exchange rate was such that I had to send 705 dollars.  My bank charged me 20 dollars.  By the time it got there on Thursday, there was only 604 Euros because of changes in currency value, exchange fees, and a bank in London took 10 euros out along the way.  Now I have a 26 Euro balance with my vendor, and I have to do it all over again.  Sound efficient to you?  Guess who is making out here, you got it - banks because like the CC processors - they are a mafia and there is no other choice.

Third - and most importantly - lets take the example of a basket maker in Zimbabwe.  30 years ago, this basket maker had no chance to compete on a global marketplace - nobody knew he existed.  Then comes the internet - and he can market his baskets online - but imagine if you or I want to buy one of his baskets - we have all of the problems listed in the first two examples I laid out - and his ability to compete is taken away by the mafia of CC processors, currency exchange sharks, and bank fees, time, and risk.

But now - with crypto - the basket maker can truly compete.  And extrapolate this to any business, of any size.  If I can pay someone anywhere in the world, with little to no fees, instantly - you are truly enabling a global marketplace.  I know you are a Christian.  Doesn't empowering third world countries to have equal footing intrigue you?  Crypto does that, while at the same time allowing first world countries to also do business more effiicently.

It is a great equalizer.

When the internet started in the 90's, these same arguments were everywhere.  Who needs this?  Why do I need to send an "email" when I can call someone?  Who will buy something on their computer?  Nobody knew about facebook then, or amazon, or social media.  Crypto today - in its current form - is not usable as I describe above.  But it will be.  And that future is what is determining todays price, not the value it has today - BUT THE VALUE IT HAS IN THE FUTURE.  People are looking ahead and seeing the potential.

So it is not a question of who needs it, it is a question of who doesn't need it - and the answer to that is anyone who is part of the established mafia of banking, cc processing, or keeping the rich rich and the poor poor.

Problem is....you have completely ignored my main argument.

In terms of it being a currency, i have absolutely NO ISSUE with it but NOT in its current form. NO ISSUE AT ALL. It needs tweaks and sure they may come.

My main issue/gripe is with it being used as a STORE OF VALUE.

This is what my arguments are against. 

The overwhelming majority of owners of crypto's have not purchased them to use it. From my understanding, as a currency, at the moment, they are extremely slow and very expensive and not many places accept it.

People own it now for the hope that they will sell at a higher priceto someone else in the future.

Its a Ponzi

Van,

Crypto fees are not like .001 percent or anything in fact now they should be ultra low but they are not and they will only increase if it ever does go to scale because if what you say happens with banks, companies etc they are not going to just go at market rate, they will add costs and fees to use that platform IF it replaces Visa. I am not at all impressed with the way transactions flow in the space and how complex and inefficient the process is to go from ANY currency or any entrance into the universe and navigate at all. Safety is a major issue, efficiency is an issue, pricing is an issue, stability is an issue.

Crypto is a decade away from being in any form to be useable for anything more than speculative risk taking...there is no infrastructure or organization, there is no leader pushing forward to large adoption and I do not think there is motivation to do so. The price swings make it extremely inefficient and financial institutions are not going to be interested in conducting business with a medium that lacks security, lacks price stability and lacks structure.

Crypto is interesting but is not at all in any kind of form that is investable and I agree with some comments I've read that say it is likely NONE of the current offerings exist in ten years, that if it does survive as a medium it will not be with what is currently available. 

All this said it doesnt mean prices cannot go up but I think that with the greedy pigs entering the universe via futures contracts, the unlimited upside is gone...bigger pockets are going to try and profit off the price going lower and since the futures came into play the price action has been negative for sure.

Wall -

Actually, right now bitcoin fees are very low.  But not low enough - as you state - and certainly not the transaction level you would need to replace CC transactions.  

You are 100% correct in talking about bitcoin in its current form.  Cant argue.  But this is the internet argument - in the form that the internet was in in 1995 - you could never imagine what we had today - and people made the exact same arguments.

I believe in efficient marketplaces.  And what we have currently is totally inefficient.  It is zero value add for a high cost - and these things usually dont last due to market pressures.

Safety, efficiency, pricing, stability - all CURRENT issues.  But every one of those is being worked on.  It is silly to think for a second that my grandma would walk in to a 7-11 and buy a slurpee with her crypto wallet - in todays form.  But if you look in to lightning network, or second layer solutions - it is really interesting.

The blockchain is the core foundation, but just like the internet is the core foundation - tons of layers can be built on top of it.

My belief is that in 10 years we will look back on these days with nostalgia - just the way we all do thinking back to our first 286 computer playing solitaire and the miracle of a scanner or a dot matrix printer - when we only had about 10 websites to go to and sent emails for fun.

But we will see.  One thing it is not - is a ponzi scheme.  More for Rostos than you Wall....  Dont get stuck on the price swings and lambo driving crypto millenials.  This is the noise.  The real future is in what will build on top of decentralized blockchain technology. Yes, there are definitely bad actors trying to profit - as in anything - but there is a paradigm core group committed to the future of this.  I buy in.