Like I said, you dont know what you are talking about. Its hard to make someone that has no real world/life experience understand something that isnt black & white.
god himself could have an argument with you and you'd come to the same conclusion...
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Quote Originally Posted by TRAIN69:
Like I said, you dont know what you are talking about. Its hard to make someone that has no real world/life experience understand something that isnt black & white.
god himself could have an argument with you and you'd come to the same conclusion...
Obviously you guys know nothing about The risks involved in CPR When it is done wrong... broken Ribs, punctured lungs, Arrythmia if you dont take a pulse properly, CPR is for someone in Cardiac arrest not a heart attack there is a difference...Why not read about it before you give opinions, I am a CPR and First Aid instructor..that nurse would have felt bad either way, I see no point in performing CPR anyway on someone in a nursing home they are supposed to go at that age, Probably wanted to go Who the F!@#$% wants to live until 90 anyway?
You are CLEARLY not a cpr instructor, because if you were, you would know that you have to give cpr if there is not a DNR present. It's not an option, it's the law. Furthermore, breaking ribs is very common when administering cpr, it doesn't mean that you are doing it wrong.
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Quote Originally Posted by Polishsausage69:
Obviously you guys know nothing about The risks involved in CPR When it is done wrong... broken Ribs, punctured lungs, Arrythmia if you dont take a pulse properly, CPR is for someone in Cardiac arrest not a heart attack there is a difference...Why not read about it before you give opinions, I am a CPR and First Aid instructor..that nurse would have felt bad either way, I see no point in performing CPR anyway on someone in a nursing home they are supposed to go at that age, Probably wanted to go Who the F!@#$% wants to live until 90 anyway?
You are CLEARLY not a cpr instructor, because if you were, you would know that you have to give cpr if there is not a DNR present. It's not an option, it's the law. Furthermore, breaking ribs is very common when administering cpr, it doesn't mean that you are doing it wrong.
You are CLEARLY not a cpr instructor, because if you were, you would know that you have to give cpr if there is not a DNR present. It's not an option, it's the law. Furthermore, breaking ribs is very common when administering cpr, it doesn't mean that you are doing it wrong.
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Quote Originally Posted by dbuc1:
You are CLEARLY not a cpr instructor, because if you were, you would know that you have to give cpr if there is not a DNR present. It's not an option, it's the law. Furthermore, breaking ribs is very common when administering cpr, it doesn't mean that you are doing it wrong.
Actually after reading up on this I believe that the nurse may not have done anything wrong. If thats the case I could never have her job as I would not be able to just stand there. But in this case a family and the lady herself signed a do not resuscitate form. As an 87 year old I think you have that right. Its a tough spot for me but like I said I couldnt make that decision.
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Actually after reading up on this I believe that the nurse may not have done anything wrong. If thats the case I could never have her job as I would not be able to just stand there. But in this case a family and the lady herself signed a do not resuscitate form. As an 87 year old I think you have that right. Its a tough spot for me but like I said I couldnt make that decision.
the woman was old, and she died. her body decided. once youve had some experience with end of life care situations, youll have some perspective and will likely change your tune. nobody lives forever, and the act of extending ones life can be akin to torture, both mentally and physically
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who are you to decide is a logical fallacy
the woman was old, and she died. her body decided. once youve had some experience with end of life care situations, youll have some perspective and will likely change your tune. nobody lives forever, and the act of extending ones life can be akin to torture, both mentally and physically
there are none more hopelessly enslaved, than those who falsely believe they are free
we live in a country where suicide is a crime, and when there was a rational inflection point to discuss societal norms in leaving ones physical body, the state decided to name dr kavorkian a criminal and put him in prison. what the bloody hell brand of freedom, life, liberty and happiness is that?
and you have jackasses like scab feigning to give a garbage, threatening to picket the facility. unfuckingbelievable
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there are none more hopelessly enslaved, than those who falsely believe they are free
we live in a country where suicide is a crime, and when there was a rational inflection point to discuss societal norms in leaving ones physical body, the state decided to name dr kavorkian a criminal and put him in prison. what the bloody hell brand of freedom, life, liberty and happiness is that?
and you have jackasses like scab feigning to give a garbage, threatening to picket the facility. unfuckingbelievable
makes me wonder if scab even knows how to perform cpr. as if he was standing there during this scenario,,,,would he be able to have saved this elderly woman? or is he just feigning outrage, and likely would have been of no help. just being critical of others and expecting someone else to do that which he cannot
but hed go picket the joint, that people choose to live in, that will show um
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makes me wonder if scab even knows how to perform cpr. as if he was standing there during this scenario,,,,would he be able to have saved this elderly woman? or is he just feigning outrage, and likely would have been of no help. just being critical of others and expecting someone else to do that which he cannot
but hed go picket the joint, that people choose to live in, that will show um
makes me wonder if scab even knows how to perform cpr. as if he was standing there during this scenario,,,,would he be able to have saved this elderly woman? or is he just feigning outrage, and likely would have been of no help. just being critical of others and expecting someone else to do that which he cannot
but hed go picket the joint, that people choose to live in, that will show um
Feigning outrage?
So now everyone who is outraged must know how to perform CPR...god give me the patience....
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Quote Originally Posted by be easy:
makes me wonder if scab even knows how to perform cpr. as if he was standing there during this scenario,,,,would he be able to have saved this elderly woman? or is he just feigning outrage, and likely would have been of no help. just being critical of others and expecting someone else to do that which he cannot
but hed go picket the joint, that people choose to live in, that will show um
Feigning outrage?
So now everyone who is outraged must know how to perform CPR...god give me the patience....
As are you by advocating not performing CPR while watching someone pass...
Please elaborate. Are you saving an elderly person dying of natural causes is not HIS plan and we, as mere mortals, should defy his wishes and attempt to reverse what HE has caused/planned? Seems pretty self righteous and extremely bold my friend. Do you know what the 1st commandment is?
Once again, you are delving into territory you are outmatched in.
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Quote Originally Posted by scalabrine:
As are you by advocating not performing CPR while watching someone pass...
Please elaborate. Are you saving an elderly person dying of natural causes is not HIS plan and we, as mere mortals, should defy his wishes and attempt to reverse what HE has caused/planned? Seems pretty self righteous and extremely bold my friend. Do you know what the 1st commandment is?
Once again, you are delving into territory you are outmatched in.
Please elaborate. Are you saving an elderly person dying of natural causes is not HIS plan and we, as mere mortals, should defy his wishes and attempt to reverse what HE has caused/planned? Seems pretty self righteous and extremely bold my friend. Do you know what the 1st commandment is?
Once again, you are delving into territory you are outmatched in.
He caused/planned?
And who are you to say which people are meant to die and who aren't?
And at what age?
Do we avoid resuscitating newborns who come from the womb not breathing because modern technology and medicine has allowed humans to intervene and save them? Or are children acceptable to save while senior citizens are not?
This is a slippery slope you are going down with greased skis...
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Quote Originally Posted by TRAIN69:
Please elaborate. Are you saving an elderly person dying of natural causes is not HIS plan and we, as mere mortals, should defy his wishes and attempt to reverse what HE has caused/planned? Seems pretty self righteous and extremely bold my friend. Do you know what the 1st commandment is?
Once again, you are delving into territory you are outmatched in.
He caused/planned?
And who are you to say which people are meant to die and who aren't?
And at what age?
Do we avoid resuscitating newborns who come from the womb not breathing because modern technology and medicine has allowed humans to intervene and save them? Or are children acceptable to save while senior citizens are not?
This is a slippery slope you are going down with greased skis...
And who are you to say which people are meant to die and who aren't?
And at what age?
Do we avoid resuscitating newborns who come from the womb not breathing because modern technology and medicine has allowed humans to intervene and save them? Or are children acceptable to save while senior citizens are not?
This is a slippery slope you are going down with greased skis...
I'm not the person to say, thats the whole point.
You brought up God, and if you believe in him/it, then you must believe ours lives are just random occureneces....
What exactly are we saving senior citizens for? How many 87 year olds are revived with cpr and go on to live to be 170?
Saving a kid is completely different because the chance of a long life is a possibility. Say you saved that 87 year old. Congrats! Now what? Another year or 2 laying in a nursing home in pain every day? Big favor you did by "saving" her. Save a breech baby who was without oxygen for a couple minute....can live a healthy, complete life until, oh ....say 87ish......
This isnt a slippery slope unless you have no common sense (aka skis)
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Quote Originally Posted by scalabrine:
He caused/planned?
And who are you to say which people are meant to die and who aren't?
And at what age?
Do we avoid resuscitating newborns who come from the womb not breathing because modern technology and medicine has allowed humans to intervene and save them? Or are children acceptable to save while senior citizens are not?
This is a slippery slope you are going down with greased skis...
I'm not the person to say, thats the whole point.
You brought up God, and if you believe in him/it, then you must believe ours lives are just random occureneces....
What exactly are we saving senior citizens for? How many 87 year olds are revived with cpr and go on to live to be 170?
Saving a kid is completely different because the chance of a long life is a possibility. Say you saved that 87 year old. Congrats! Now what? Another year or 2 laying in a nursing home in pain every day? Big favor you did by "saving" her. Save a breech baby who was without oxygen for a couple minute....can live a healthy, complete life until, oh ....say 87ish......
This isnt a slippery slope unless you have no common sense (aka skis)
Actually after reading up on this I believe that the nurse may not have done anything wrong. If thats the case I could never have her job as I would not be able to just stand there. But in this case a family and the lady herself signed a do not resuscitate form. As an 87 year old I think you have that right. Its a tough spot for me but like I said I couldnt make that decision.
There was no DNR form on file! How many times must this be said in this thread!!! It is the entire point of the thread! If a DNR form existed, it is a non-story!!!
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Quote Originally Posted by NoWorries21:
Actually after reading up on this I believe that the nurse may not have done anything wrong. If thats the case I could never have her job as I would not be able to just stand there. But in this case a family and the lady herself signed a do not resuscitate form. As an 87 year old I think you have that right. Its a tough spot for me but like I said I couldnt make that decision.
There was no DNR form on file! How many times must this be said in this thread!!! It is the entire point of the thread! If a DNR form existed, it is a non-story!!!
You brought up God, and if you believe in him/it, then you must believe ours lives are just random occureneces....
What exactly are we saving senior citizens for? How many 87 year olds are revived with cpr and go on to live to be 170?
Saving a kid is completely different because the chance of a long life is a possibility. Say you saved that 87 year old. Congrats! Now what? Another year or 2 laying in a nursing home in pain every day? Big favor you did by "saving" her. Save a breech baby who was without oxygen for a couple minute....can live a healthy, complete life until, oh ....say 87ish......
This isnt a slippery slope unless you have no common sense (aka skis)
You are the person to say it. If you know CPR and don't administer it you are making a willful choice to let a person die when they could be saved reagardless of age. By not acting, you are making a choice to let the person die in the exact same way someone would make a choice to help the person live.
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Quote Originally Posted by TRAIN69:
I'm not the person to say, thats the whole point.
You brought up God, and if you believe in him/it, then you must believe ours lives are just random occureneces....
What exactly are we saving senior citizens for? How many 87 year olds are revived with cpr and go on to live to be 170?
Saving a kid is completely different because the chance of a long life is a possibility. Say you saved that 87 year old. Congrats! Now what? Another year or 2 laying in a nursing home in pain every day? Big favor you did by "saving" her. Save a breech baby who was without oxygen for a couple minute....can live a healthy, complete life until, oh ....say 87ish......
This isnt a slippery slope unless you have no common sense (aka skis)
You are the person to say it. If you know CPR and don't administer it you are making a willful choice to let a person die when they could be saved reagardless of age. By not acting, you are making a choice to let the person die in the exact same way someone would make a choice to help the person live.
You are the person to say it. If you know CPR and don't administer it you are making a willful choice to let a person die when they could be saved reagardless of age. By not acting, you are making a choice to let the person die in the exact same way someone would make a choice to help the person live.
So if you walked up on an 87 year old and a 4 year old laying on the floor and you were alone & could only attempt to save one, which one would you try to save?
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Quote Originally Posted by scalabrine:
You are the person to say it. If you know CPR and don't administer it you are making a willful choice to let a person die when they could be saved reagardless of age. By not acting, you are making a choice to let the person die in the exact same way someone would make a choice to help the person live.
So if you walked up on an 87 year old and a 4 year old laying on the floor and you were alone & could only attempt to save one, which one would you try to save?
So if you walked up on an 87 year old and a 4 year old laying on the floor and you were alone & could only attempt to save one, which one would you try to save?
With all respect it would be more fair to deal in reality - someone having to make this choice is so far from possibility that it is pretty much nil.
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Quote Originally Posted by TRAIN69:
So if you walked up on an 87 year old and a 4 year old laying on the floor and you were alone & could only attempt to save one, which one would you try to save?
With all respect it would be more fair to deal in reality - someone having to make this choice is so far from possibility that it is pretty much nil.
With all respect it would be more fair to deal in reality - someone having to make this choice is so far from possibility that it is pretty much nil.
Its a hypothetical scenario. This was directed at Scal. Say it was a car wreck in the country with a grandma and her grandson if you want a little reality thrown in there.
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Quote Originally Posted by Allbutbroke:
With all respect it would be more fair to deal in reality - someone having to make this choice is so far from possibility that it is pretty much nil.
Its a hypothetical scenario. This was directed at Scal. Say it was a car wreck in the country with a grandma and her grandson if you want a little reality thrown in there.
Its a hypothetical scenario. This was directed at Scal. Say it was a car wreck in the country with a grandma and her grandson if you want a little reality thrown in there.
Offering ludicrous hypotheticals is the first stage in senseless argumentation.
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Quote Originally Posted by TRAIN69:
Its a hypothetical scenario. This was directed at Scal. Say it was a car wreck in the country with a grandma and her grandson if you want a little reality thrown in there.
Offering ludicrous hypotheticals is the first stage in senseless argumentation.
You brought up God, and if you believe in him/it, then you must believe ours lives are just random occureneces....
What exactly are we saving senior citizens for? How many 87 year olds are revived with cpr and go on to live to be 170?
Saving a kid is completely different because the chance of a long life is a possibility. Say you saved that 87 year old. Congrats! Now what? Another year or 2 laying in a nursing home in pain every day? Big favor you did by "saving" her. Save a breech baby who was without oxygen for a couple minute....can live a healthy, complete life until, oh ....say 87ish......
This isnt a slippery slope unless you have no common sense (aka skis)
Still waiting for you to answer Scal.
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Quote Originally Posted by TRAIN69:
I'm not the person to say, thats the whole point.
You brought up God, and if you believe in him/it, then you must believe ours lives are just random occureneces....
What exactly are we saving senior citizens for? How many 87 year olds are revived with cpr and go on to live to be 170?
Saving a kid is completely different because the chance of a long life is a possibility. Say you saved that 87 year old. Congrats! Now what? Another year or 2 laying in a nursing home in pain every day? Big favor you did by "saving" her. Save a breech baby who was without oxygen for a couple minute....can live a healthy, complete life until, oh ....say 87ish......
This isnt a slippery slope unless you have no common sense (aka skis)
Not being able to answer said hypotheticals is the first stage in losing an argument.
The only person here who thinks you 'won' with your ludicrous hypotheticals are you and your parasite bandit.
And again, to the red highlighted, you are completely off base in your valuation of what is a meaningful life. It is a separate argument of 'save one or the other.'
Just because you believe an 87 can't be productive (i.e. our lives are now defined by work and output into a capitalist economy?), doesn't mean it isn't a life worth saving, even in a nursing home.
I'd love to be at your parent's or grandparent's funerals. Must be a real hoot to see you standing there saying, "What is everyone gettin' all worked up about! They were in their 80's and checkin out soon anyways."
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Quote Originally Posted by TRAIN69:
Not being able to answer said hypotheticals is the first stage in losing an argument.
The only person here who thinks you 'won' with your ludicrous hypotheticals are you and your parasite bandit.
And again, to the red highlighted, you are completely off base in your valuation of what is a meaningful life. It is a separate argument of 'save one or the other.'
Just because you believe an 87 can't be productive (i.e. our lives are now defined by work and output into a capitalist economy?), doesn't mean it isn't a life worth saving, even in a nursing home.
I'd love to be at your parent's or grandparent's funerals. Must be a real hoot to see you standing there saying, "What is everyone gettin' all worked up about! They were in their 80's and checkin out soon anyways."
The only person here who thinks you 'won' with your ludicrous hypotheticals are you and your parasite bandit.
And again, to the red highlighted, you are completely off base in your valuation of what is a meaningful life. It is a separate argument of 'save one or the other.'
Just because you believe an 87 can't be productive (i.e. our lives are now defined by work and output into a capitalist economy?), doesn't mean it isn't a life worth saving, even in a nursing home.
I'd love to be at your parent's or grandparent's funerals. Must be a real hoot to see you standing there saying, "What is everyone gettin' all worked up about! They were in their 80's and checkin out soon anyways."
Rather say that than boy did they spend that last year in misery after they got cpr on their 87th birthday and were on a ventilator and died of an infection from being in the hospital so long.....
Gotta wake up bro. You cant be wrong about everything.....can you?
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Quote Originally Posted by scalabrine:
The only person here who thinks you 'won' with your ludicrous hypotheticals are you and your parasite bandit.
And again, to the red highlighted, you are completely off base in your valuation of what is a meaningful life. It is a separate argument of 'save one or the other.'
Just because you believe an 87 can't be productive (i.e. our lives are now defined by work and output into a capitalist economy?), doesn't mean it isn't a life worth saving, even in a nursing home.
I'd love to be at your parent's or grandparent's funerals. Must be a real hoot to see you standing there saying, "What is everyone gettin' all worked up about! They were in their 80's and checkin out soon anyways."
Rather say that than boy did they spend that last year in misery after they got cpr on their 87th birthday and were on a ventilator and died of an infection from being in the hospital so long.....
Gotta wake up bro. You cant be wrong about everything.....can you?
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