Nurse who let a woman die rather than defy job rules

Good stuff sir.......they say cpr saves lives in 5 to 10% of the time.  In the course of my work I have done CPR 3 times - each time a family member of the dieing was present and looking for help - although being present or not isn't a factor.  I don't understand any other instinct other than to try to save a life.  Sadly, all three persons died - one was revived and then died at hospital.  Not sure how anyone could live with themselves to watch and do nothing.

Big respect as well for Scalbrine's comments in this thread.

His 2nd paragraph isnt a joke. Obviously you dont work in the medical field. You havent heard these people beg you to just let them go. You cant help a dying 87 year old. They dont get better, and if cancer or alzheimers hasnt eaten their mind, the anguish of knowing their demise is near is terrifying, but the thought of having to suffer longer is even worse.. There is no bright side. All you wind up doing is prolonging the inevitable so the family can think they "tried to help".

Stop talking about this like you do everything else (like you are better/smarter than everyone). You simpy dont know what you are talking about.

Well, Mr "Know it all" and your usual crap. Amazing SHE did not want the be saved! So will you know slam her family? You sicken me

Its not for sympathy. Its to educate self righteous people like yourself with an internet knowledge of reality.

Saving someone that doesnt want to be saved to appease your sense of right and wrong is the definition of self righteous.

Its real easy for you to sit on the sidelines and say what you woulda done, especially considering you've never worked in healthcare. We arent talking about a person at the bank or in your home....

The only hilarious thing is you yapping like you know what you're talking about despite the contrary, per usual.  

What "facts" and "misinformation" are you referring to? They cant put anything on the internet that isnt true.... right? The family stated she didnt want to be revived. The nurse probably knew these wishes as well if she had taken care of the old lady before this happened.

When did I say you needed to work in healthcare? Oh, I didnt. For a smart guy you sure cant extrapolate very well.

Like I said, you dont know what you're talking about. You have ZERO experience dealing with the elderly or saving a life, so I dont know what you are falling back on when you talk out of your azz.

Senseless and unsupported is you thinking everyone should get cpr because YOU think its the right thing to do. I have more common sense and street smarts thatn anybody you know. I'm usually contrarian to what you say because you are wrong. Like I said, self righteous.

Duh, yes, I think I would have done the same, regrettably.  This unfortunately is the position govt, lawyers, and judges HAVE put us in.  Pretty big and brave of you to say you would "break the law" to save her, when in fact this is all probability has never, and will ever happen to you, or most of us.  Amazing how it is ALWAYS somebody elses fault when something bad happens.  Hmmmm, did you ever think maybe it was just her time?  Just maybe...it is NOBODY'S faualt.  IMO, when you put a member of your family in an institution, you lose some of your rights.  Honestly, if we all ADMIT it, nobody will give our "loved" one the same care they would get at home.  But nooooo, we don't want to be bothered by taking care of our elderly parents, or grand parents.  Seriously, how many of us really want to live to be this old in an institution?  No thank you.  Each situation is different to be sure, but the vast majority of elderly people, are NOT in good health are a drain on society, and wish they had the guts to die. How much longer can we as a society continue to afford this???    

Hey Train.  Appreciate your insight and common sense approach.  As usual, you hit it.  

Just a question tho.  Why do ANY of us even waste our breath on Scal?  I just have to and shake my head on most of his boorish, insulting, and completely arrogant posts.  If we all just ignored him like a little 3 year old throwing a tantrum, he would stop and go away (hopefully).  I don't allow him to get under my skin.  Thanks for the winners in CBB train!  

Quote Originally Posted by scalabrine:

The more you type, the more you reveal severe flaws in argumentation and reasoning. Worse, you are the absolute worst person to ever be involved in a life or death situation and/or the healthcare profession given your stance.

The hilarity of your spin becomes more evident with every character you put to screen.

Here the the facts. 

These are the same facts you put in mocking 

quotation marks and deride as "don't believe everything you read on the internet" spittle, when they are in fact, facts (just ones you don't like to hear).

Ironically, you use the same internet for your sources but in your case, it's completely fine.

Fact: There was no "Do Not Resuscitate" order on file in the nursing home.

Why is this important? 

Because you would need to perform CPR otherwise, unless there is a now revealed policy to not perform CPR in all life or death situation in this particular home. THAT is what all the outrage is about.

Fact: The nurse called 911 to get someone to resuscitate the patient. How do we know this? Listen to the 911 call or read the transcript. Educate yourself about the details of the case. Do you think she was calling 911 to order a large pepperoni? 

Why is this important? Your outrageously flagrant claim that the 'nurse probably knew the wishes of the family' are false. She would have allowed her to die if she had (or is this some purposeful delay on her part so 911 arrives late while she does nothing about it). And what gives her the right to have a personal relationship with the family to make the call on such a decision? Nothing of course. Just your own made up fantasy to construct a contrarian argument to 'win' or whatever you need for self-confidence/self-worth. 

Fact: The nursing home defended the actions of the nurse because it was their policy not to perform CPR.

Why is this important? Because THAT is why we are having this conversation. Not because you or others in this thread believe that this should be a debate about how long older individuals should live, being a drain on the healthcare system/ and/or having no real quality of life that younger individuals enjoy, especially ones in assisted living situation and whether it's cruel or kind to allow them to continue to live with ailments and heavy drugging. It's a question of, "Do you save a person's life, regardless of age, in a life or death situation, if CPR, something you are trained to do, is all that is needed to save the life, particularly when their is no signed order from the family or person to prevent you from resuscitating them?" (which there wasn't). 

What's really shocking is that you trust a 'family's statement' post-death (and that is the key, over a legally binding order fulfilling the patient's wishes).

Moreover, a conversation (not a fact-based argument like what I laid out above) about why this women might want to pass if true (who could know when once again, only the living, the family, are here to tell the tale), since she, like many other senior citizen's has lost her autonomy and is subject to every whim of another's care.

When you have $120,000 to pay a year to put your parent or grandparent in a nursing home, they'll likely have it pretty good. When you have to depend on Medicaid or a standard nursing home like many posters here, the aged individual might have a life of boredom, neglect, drugs and possibly abuse (as has been detailed in several studies concerning nursing home care in this country). Hell, I might even want to check out of that place permanently too, especially one that doesn't even want to do CPR on me. But there is one thing they will have as well. A right to life, unless there is a lawful signed order stating otherwise, which is conspicuously absent in this case and conveniently allows the nursing home to institute policies where they make the final determination (one they choose which allows the person to die).

Then have this idiot lemming bandit coming in the thread and encouraging a guy who hasn't made a cogent argument, and lauds him with a 'common sense' approach, when it is precisely the opposite.

Study a case Train. Read about it. Think about it for more than 5 minutes. Digest the facts and understand what the public outrage is about before coming in a thread lobbing insults, while making yourself look intellectually inadequate in the process (along with the parasite that can't get enough of you). 

Like I said, you dont know what you are talking about. Its hard to make someone that has no real world/life experience understand something that isnt black & white.