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Proof that there is no god.

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Posted: #76
drake, no one said no place has no problems.  that's not a relevant comment.

nigeria has a lot of problems as do other smaller countries in africa and the middle east and a lot of them have to do with religion.  that distinguishes those countries from sweden and denmark which is the point rj made.

i see you say the more populous a country is, the more problems it will have.  in some respects this is probably true, such as air quality, but i haven't seen you relate it to rj's argument.
 
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Posted: #77

Can all the believers on here just admit, JUST ADMIT, that the only reason you believe in one god or another is because your parents drilled it into your heads?  It's common sense...if you were born on an isolated island where the people believed a sea monster created the Earth then that's what you'd believe, too.  You wouldn't wake up one day, 40 years old all the sudden being like "hey, wait a second, JESUS is the real god, not Pu-KlaKTU the seahag."

On another note...if somebody really REALLLLLLY believes, then shouldn't that person give it all away and spend their lives in poverty, doing all they can to help the sick and the poor? 

 
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Posted: #78
can't prove or disprove, but keep having fun trying either way    
 
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Posted: #79
Quote Originally Posted by captjohn67:

can't prove or disprove, but keep having fun trying either way    


we're going to do it in one of these threads captain.  just watch.

but i'm not that interested in talking about god.  religion, on the other hand, is a fascinating topic to me. 
 
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Posted: #80
Quote Originally Posted by AgentCooper:

Can all the believers on here just admit, JUST ADMIT, that the only reason you believe in one god or another is because your parents drilled it into your heads?  It's common sense...if you were born on an isolated island where the people believed a sea monster created the Earth then that's what you'd believe, too.  You wouldn't wake up one day, 40 years old all the sudden being like "hey, wait a second, JESUS is the real god, not Pu-KlaKTU the seahag."

On another note...if somebody really REALLLLLLY believes, then shouldn't that person give it all away and spend their lives in poverty, doing all they can to help the sick and the poor? 



jesus hates obamacare and socialism.  jesus loves billion dollar pharmaceutical companies.  and lockheed martin.   
 
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Posted: #81

Quote Posted by ClubDirt:

nigeria has a lot of problems as do other smaller countries in africa and the middle east and a lot of them have to do with religion.  that distinguishes those countries from sweden and denmark which is the point rj made.

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Nigeria is not really a small country when compared to Denmark or Sweden. Nigeria has a population of approx. 155 mil and so of course they are going to have more problems than those tiny countries of Denmark and Sweden...lol

And another point to make is that there are religious people living in Denmark and Sweden. Granted there are not that many but again it is attributed to their relatively small populations.

And like I said in my previous post most of Nigeria's problems are not entirely due to their religious beliefs, it stems from fighting over land, resources and ethinic issues.

 

 
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Posted: #82
i think we're getting off on a tangent here, as these threads often do.  rj's point was that denmark and sweden are two of the best and safest countries by a lot of objective standards such as life expectancy, literacy rates, standard of living, etc.  and he also pointed out that they are two of the least religious countries.  you said that was because they are small countries without offering any logical explanation for a cause and effect. 

i just pointed out there are other small countries with a shitload of problems that are very religious.  i still doesn't understand how size plays a big factor. 
 
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Posted: #83

Quote Posted by AgentCooper:

My guess is 10,000 years from now, many of the traditional religions that people subscribe to now will be totally replaced by other, similarly insane, religions.

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Like your Klondor religion or whatever you called it?...lol

 
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Posted: #84

Quote Posted by ClubDirt:

i just pointed out there are other small countries with a shitload of problems that are very religious.  i still doesn't understand how size plays a big factor. 
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You just made a general statement not based on facts but probably based on you being biased. After all you are a non-believer in God.

If you don't understand how size plays a big factor...what else can I say to you to help you understand?

It seems so elementary to me to understand simple logic and so why are you having a hard time?...lol

Must be your biased perspective getting in the way.

 

 
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Posted: #85
Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

Quote Posted by ClubDirt:

i just pointed out there are other small countries with a shitload of problems that are very religious.  i still doesn't understand how size plays a big factor. 
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You just made a general statement not based on facts but probably based on you being biased. After all you are a non-believer in God.

If you don't understand how size plays a big factor...what else can I say to you to help you understand?

It seems so elementary to me to understand simple logic and so why are you having a hard time?...lol

Must be your biased perspective getting in the way.

 



as to your first question, you can state any fact or logical opinion that indicates a connection between country size and the issues raised by rj. 
 
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Posted: #86

Quote Posted by AgentCooper:

Can all the believers on here just admit, JUST ADMIT, that the only reason you believe in one god or another is because your parents drilled it into your heads? 

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I can honestly say, and God knows I'm telling the truth and nothing but the truth so help me God!!...that no, my parents never drilled it into my head and brainwashed me into believing in Almighty God!

 
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Posted: #87
Quote Originally Posted by ClubDirt:



as to your first question, you can state any fact or logical opinion that indicates a connection between country size and the issues raised by rj. 

brother club, you're wasting your time. sjd doesn't believe in logic...
 
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Posted: #88
Nor does SJD understand the point about Sweden and Denmark. No one is talking about volume of people regarding safety and fewer problems and amount of nonbelievers. It is all relative to size. It's all percentages. And Denmark and Sweden have the fewest % of believers and fewer problems % wise. The total amount is completely irrelevant.

To address AgentCooper. I think you have the answer to everything you need to know when someone tells you that if no one told them about Jesus, they would still believe in the christian bible. Even the most devout religious person in the world, had that person been born on an island, isolated from society and all the bible teachings, would not believe in Jesus. There is simply no logical way that person could possibly know of Jesus' existence absent him coming down himself (which would alleviate so much confusion if he did - but god works in mysterious ways right? lol).

But on a serious note: SJD knows that what you are saying is true and you can tell by how he dodged the question. He said jesus wasn't drilled into his head. I have no reason to doubt that. But your point wasn't that he was brainwashed, it was that he was told about Jesus in the first place. He completely disregarded that argument. Had SJD lived his life in such isolation that he was never informed of any of the jesus related teachings, there is no doubt in anyone's mind that he would not believe the things he believes today.
 
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Posted: #89
Quote Originally Posted by AgentCooper:

The only reason a person believes in any "god" is because they were raised to believe that.  It's as simple as that.  It's a fairy tale passed down from generation to generation.  If you grew up wild in the woods you'd probably believe that the sun was a god, or that there was a god who controlled water, animals, etc.

Here's my take: human beings are scared, ruthless, ignorant pieces of shit.  Instead of creating a paradise on Earth, which we could easily do, we scam each other over and continue to rape this planet.  So, as a counter measure, religion is 'invented' as a way to keep people in line...a set of rules and guidelines to follow so we don't destroy each other completely.  It's a man made concept and hey, if it works, great.  "Don't kill, don't steal, etc."

My guess is 10,000 years from now, many of the traditional religions that people subscribe to now will be totally replaced by other, similarly insane, religions.

And if it's all faith-based...then aren't I just as valid believing in KLONDOR a god that I just invented 2 seconds ago who gave birth to the sun and then married the moon and had planets as their offspring?  Isn't that just as valid as Christianity?  If that's what I believe?  Maybe my new religion will catch on and 2,000 years from now all the lunkheads on the planet will believe in KLONDOR.

Genetic fallacy!!

 
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Posted: #90

Quote Originally Posted by RJSmith:



And why did this socalled "god" manifest himself in a backward part of the world among illiterate and moronic shepards?
How come he didn't manifest himself among smarter people in superior civilizations where people could read, write, think for themselves?
Was it because it was easier for the scribes to manipulate and control the people?
Religion was TERROR from the get-go.
Still is.

Imagine this - you had never heard about Christianity before today. Someone gives you a book (bible) and you start reading the stories...Say - "God" created the world, Adam and Eve (who we all are descendants from), a talking bush, people rising from death, walking on water etc.. Would you believe that?
No. And if you did - you'd be admitted to a mental hospital.

Religion is terror.



Ad Hominem

 
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Posted: #91

Quote Originally Posted by RJSmith:

How come this:

Sweden and Denmark are among the least religious countries in the world.
Life expectancy, child welfare, literacy, schooling, economic equality, standard of living, happiness, low crime, competitiveness etc., Denmark and Sweden stand in the first tier.

Why is this? Most people don't worship "god" in those countries - yet they're prosperous?
As opposed to many very religious countries....
Why does "god" love us when we don't love him or believe in him?

Prosperity of human life has nothing to do with Gods exisetnce.

 
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Posted: #92
Quote Originally Posted by bunny651:

 

That's exactly the problem with all religons. They all claim how great love, alimighty their own God is yet they will waste no time to put down the other ones.

The main world religions (Christianity, Islam and Judaism) all believe and worship the same God......

 
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Posted: #93
Quote Originally Posted by AgentCooper:

Can all the believers on here just admit, JUST ADMIT, that the only reason you believe in one god or another is because your parents drilled it into your heads?  It's common sense...if you were born on an isolated island where the people believed a sea monster created the Earth then that's what you'd believe, too.  You wouldn't wake up one day, 40 years old all the sudden being like "hey, wait a second, JESUS is the real god, not Pu-KlaKTU the seahag."

On another note...if somebody really REALLLLLLY believes, then shouldn't that person give it all away and spend their lives in poverty, doing all they can to help the sick and the poor? 

Stop appealing to the genetic fallacy.....

What about people who were raised by atheist parents, lived as atheists and then turned to Christianity later in their lives?

There are tens of thousands who have done this...How do you explain that?

 
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Posted: #94
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

Prosperity of human life has nothing to do with Gods exisetnce.


exactly, religion does
 
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Posted: #95

Ok, here is something for you gentleman to have a think about....

Skeptics such as yourselves have been around since humanity began.

Meaning, skeptics were around the time of Jesus and obviously after.

Here is the question. Why arent their any counter claims / writings at the time of Jesus or just after when the Gospels were being written?

Think of this. At the time of Jesus and just after when the gospels were written, we saw a transformation of scoeity based on these gospels. That is, the construction and establishment of Churches, persecution of Gospel followers, people devoting their lives to the gospel, ie, Priests , bishops etc etc....

So, if you are a skeptic at that time, society is changing. As a skeptic, wouldnt you go and INVESTIGATE the claims being made in the gospels?

The first gospels were written approx 50 years after the crucifixion, therefore, many if not all of the people mentioned in the gospels, WERE STILL around, or most definitly there children....

THis is made much more easier as it was a small country town where the majority of people knew each other, , ie, not like NYC people know only a small percentage of each other...

Here is an example. We know about the story of Elizabeth and her husband Lazarus who Jesus raised from the dead. If you are a skeptic, read this, and people started to change their lives based on this....wouldnt you as a skeptic go to Elizabeth or at least her children and ask if it really happened? Or what about the claim that Jesus fed 5000 people with fish and bread?

These are claims that around the time of the gospels were written would be well known facts TO EVERYONE.......yet if not true,

WHY WASNT THEIR ANYONE, ESPECIALLY skeptics investigating these many claims and documented these?

 

 

 

 
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Posted: #96

Here is an example.

Suppose, right now, there is no technology, no TV, phones, email, Cameras, newspapers etc etc, these NEVER existed, and for the next 100 years , their will be no technology....

Lets say in 40 years time, i walk into NYC and i see some writings that some planes flew into the world trade centre and destroyed these buildings and 5 thousand people died. Names of the people that died from this story were mentioned, their relatives etc etc..

Thats a pretty big thing right? Lets also say that this event transformed the city of NYC and people changed from this event which this document that i read alleges.....

Lets say, that i am skeptical that this event even happened (remember, i never heard of it because there was no technology).....i read this document, wouldnt it be LOGICAL for me as a skeptic to investigate this claim? Wouldnt i walk upto people and ask, "did this really happen"....I would expect to recieve an overwhelming yes, it did happen as many of the people saw it, affected by it and lives changed from it......

Now, lets say, it actually never happened, no buildings were destroyed, lets say these buildings we speak of were taken down by other means and no one was killed, everything that was written was a lie.....BUT, even though it is a lie, people still changed there lives based on this story, memorials were built etc etc, but it was all a lie.....

WOuldnt skeptics at the time investigate the claim and if it never happened, document this , show the crowd that hey, it is a delusion and put it to bed?

Their will be no writings claiming that sept 11 never happened, because it did......just like i dont expect to see writings and we dont (at the time) that what happened in the bible never actually happened, because it must have, otherwise, skeptics at the time, will be all over it like a rash.....

 
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Posted: #97
Quote Originally Posted by SYSTEM:


exactly, religion does

 
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Posted: #98
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:


sorry, I can't make it any simpler...
 
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Posted: #99
Quote Originally Posted by AgentCooper:

Can all the believers on here just admit, JUST ADMIT, that the only reason you believe in one god or another is because your parents drilled it into your heads?  It's common sense...if you were born on an isolated island where the people believed a sea monster created the Earth then that's what you'd believe, too.  You wouldn't wake up one day, 40 years old all the sudden being like "hey, wait a second, JESUS is the real god, not CCC."

On another note...if somebody really REALLLLLLY believes, then shouldn't that person give it all away and spend their lives in poverty, doing all they can to help the sick and the poor? 



HAY!!!  DAMNIT!!!

You leave  Pu-KlaKTU the SeaHag out of this...

You may bad mouth other dieties but NOT  Pu-KlaKTU the SeaHag!!!




 
 
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Posted: #100
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

Ok, here is something for you gentleman to have a think about....

Skeptics such as yourselves have been around since humanity began.

Meaning, skeptics were around the time of Jesus and obviously after.

Here is the question. Why arent their any counter claims / writings at the time of Jesus or just after when the Gospels were being written?

Think of this. At the time of Jesus and just after when the gospels were written, we saw a transformation of scoeity based on these gospels. That is, the construction and establishment of Churches, persecution of Gospel followers, people devoting their lives to the gospel, ie, Priests , bishops etc etc....

So, if you are a skeptic at that time, society is changing. As a skeptic, wouldnt you go and INVESTIGATE the claims being made in the gospels?

The first gospels were written approx 50 years after the crucifixion, therefore, many if not all of the people mentioned in the gospels, WERE STILL around, or most definitly there children....

THis is made much more easier as it was a small country town where the majority of people knew each other, , ie, not like NYC people know only a small percentage of each other...

Here is an example. We know about the story of Elizabeth and her husband Lazarus who Jesus raised from the dead. If you are a skeptic, read this, and people started to change their lives based on this....wouldnt you as a skeptic go to Elizabeth or at least her children and ask if it really happened? Or what about the claim that Jesus fed 5000 people with fish and bread?

These are claims that around the time of the gospels were written would be well known facts TO EVERYONE.......yet if not true,

WHY WASNT THEIR ANYONE, ESPECIALLY skeptics investigating these many claims and documented these?

 

 

 


You realize how these stories may have become exaggerated or distorted over 50 years right? That's a long time for people to try and tell the same story with the utmost accuracy. 

It reminds me of how many people claim to have been at the game where Wilt Chamberlin scored 100 points in a single basketball game. Or even the children's game of telephone. 


I also have to question how many people were still around after the crucifixion as well. I'm no expert on the matter but I don't think the average life span back then was nearly as long as it is nowadays. Just my opinion. Now factor in that old people don't exactly have the best memory. Maybe this stuff was written down somewhere but I don't know how reliable literacy rates were back then. 

Just some points that came to my mind when reading your response. 

For the record, my philosophy is if you want to believe in God then go for it. Just don't push your beliefs on me.

And someone tell those fucking Mormons to stop knocking on my door....especially during football season. 

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