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Religion??? WTF

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Posted: #226
But I want you to know something, this is sincere, I want you to know, when it comes to believing in God, I really tried. I really, really tried. I tried to believe that there is a God, who created each of us in His own image and likeness, loves us very much, and keeps a close eye on things. I really tried to believe that, but I gotta tell you, the longer you live, the more you look around, the more you realize, something is fucked up.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed. Results like these do not belong on the résumé of a Supreme Being. This is the kind of shit you'd expect from an office temp with a bad attitude. And just between you and me, in any decently-run universe, this guy would've been out on his all-powerful ass a long time ago. And by the way, I say "this guy", because I firmly believe, looking at these results, that if there is a God, it has to be a man.
 
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Posted: #227
When it comes to bullshit, big-time, major league bullshit, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims, religion. No contest. No contest. Religion. Religion easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told. Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!
But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bullshit story. Holy Shit!
But I want you to know something, this is sincere, I want you to know, when it comes to believing in God, I really tried. I really, really tried. I tried to believe that there is a God, who created each of us in His own image and likeness, loves us very much, and keeps a close eye on things. I really tried to believe that, but I gotta tell you, the longer you live, the more you look around, the more you realize, something is fucked up.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed. Results like these do not belong on the résumé of a Supreme Being. This is the kind of shit you'd expect from an office temp with a bad attitude. And just between you and me, in any decently-run universe, this guy would've been out on his all-powerful ass a long time ago. And by the way, I say "this guy", because I firmly believe, looking at these results, that if there is a God, it has to be a man.
No woman could or would ever fuck things up like this. So, if there is a God, I think most reasonable people might agree that he's at least incompetent, and maybe, just maybe, doesn't give a shit. Doesn't give a shit, which I admire in a person, and which would explain a lot of these bad results.
So rather than be just another mindless religious robot, mindlessly and aimlessly and blindly believing that all of this is in the hands of some spooky incompetent father figure who doesn't give a shit, I decided to look around for something else to worship. Something I could really count on.
And immediately, I thought of the sun. Happened like that. Overnight I became a sun-worshipper. Well, not overnight, you can't see the sun at night. But first thing the next morning, I became a sun-worshipper. Several reasons. First of all, I can see the sun, okay? Unlike some other gods I could mention, I can actually see the sun. I'm big on that. If I can see something, I don't know, it kind of helps the credibility along, you know? So everyday I can see the sun, as it gives me everything I need; heat, light, food, flowers in the park, reflections on the lake, an occasional skin cancer, but hey. At least there are no crucifixions, and we're not setting people on fire simply because they don't agree with us.
 
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Posted: #228
Sun worship is fairly simple. There's no mystery, no miracles, no pageantry, no one asks for money, there are no songs to learn, and we don't have a special building where we all gather once a week to compare clothing. And the best thing about the sun, it never tells me I'm unworthy. Doesn't tell me I'm a bad person who needs to be saved. Hasn't said an unkind word. Treats me fine. So, I worship the sun. But, I don't pray to the sun. Know why? I wouldn't presume on our friendship. It's not polite.
I've often thought people treat God rather rudely, don't you? Asking trillions and trillions of prayers every day. Asking and pleading and begging for favors. Do this, gimme that, I need a new car, I want a better job. And most of this praying takes place on Sunday His day off. It's not nice. And it's no way to treat a friend.
But people do pray, and they pray for a lot of different things, you know, your sister needs an operation on her crotch, your brother was arrested for defecating in a mall. But most of all, you'd really like to fuck that hot little redhead down at the convenience store. You know, the one with the eyepatch and the clubfoot? Can you pray for that? I think you'd have to. And I say, fine. Pray for anything you want. Pray for anything, but what about the Divine Plan?
 
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Posted: #229
Remember that? The Divine Plan. Long time ago, God made a Divine Plan. Gave it a lot of thought, decided it was a good plan, put it into practice. And for billions and billions of years, the Divine Plan has been doing just fine. Now, you come along, and pray for something. Well suppose the thing you want isn't in God's Divine Plan? What do you want Him to do? Change His plan? Just for you? Doesn't it seem a little arrogant? It's a Divine Plan. What's the use of being God if every run-down shmuck with a two-dollar prayerbook can come along and fuck up Your Plan?
And here's something else, another problem you might have: Suppose your prayers aren't answered. What do you say? "Well, it's God's will." "Thy Will Be Done." Fine, but if it's God's will, and He's going to do what He wants to anyway, why the fuck bother praying in the first place? Seems like a big waste of time to me! Couldn't you just skip the praying part and go right to His Will? It's all very confusing.
So to get around a lot of this, I decided to worship the sun. But, as I said, I don't pray to the sun. You know who I pray to? Joe Pesci. Two reasons: First of all, I think he's a good actor, okay? To me, that counts. Second, he looks like a guy who can get things done. Joe Pesci doesn't fuck around. In fact, Joe Pesci came through on a couple of things that God was having trouble with.
 
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Posted: #230
So I've been praying to Joe for about a year now. And I noticed something. I noticed that all the prayers I used to offer to God, and all the prayers I now offer to Joe Pesci, are being answered at about the same 50% rate. Half the time I get what I want, half the time I don't. Same as God, 50-50. Same as the four-leaf clover and the horseshoe, the wishing well and the rabbit's foot, same as the Mojo Man, same as the Voodoo Lady who tells you your fortune by squeezing the goat's testicles, it's all the same: 50-50. So just pick your superstition, sit back, make a wish, and enjoy yourself.
And for those of you who look to The Bible for moral lessons and literary qualities, I might suggest a couple of other stories for you. You might want to look at the Three Little Pigs, that's a good one. Has a nice happy ending, I'm sure you'll like that. Then there's Little Red Riding Hood, although it does have that X-rated part where the Big Bad Wolf actually eats the grandmother. Which I didn't care for, by the way. And finally, I've always drawn a great deal of moral comfort from Humpty Dumpty. The part I like the best? "All the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put Humpty Dumpty back together again." That's because there is no Humpty Dumpty, and there is no God. None, not one, no God, never was.
 
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Posted: #231
In fact, I'm gonna put it this way. If there is a God, may he strike you dead! See? Nothing happened. Nothing happened? You are okay? All right, tell you what, I'll raise the stakes a little bit. If there is a God, may he strike me dead. See? Nothing happened, oh, wait, I've got a little cramp in my leg. And my balls hurt. Plus, I'm blind. I'm blind, oh, now I'm okay again, must have been Joe Pesci, huh? God Bless Joe Pesci. Thank you all very much. Joe Bless You!
 
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Posted: #232
THX George!
 
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Posted: #233
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

Cant u read?

People on here have said they dont believe in GOD cause they havent seen him........yet the same people have said they believe Aliens exist.......have they seen Aliens........?

Sounds hypocrtical doesnt it?


Both are delusional. Doesn't prove anything.
 
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Posted: #234
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

Alot of people here it sounds like do not believe in GOD as it is convinient for them and justification for there sinful life so they do not hope to face judgement one day.........

Why should we believe in something that was created by man?

Everyone is a sinner,everyone will be judged......

Judged by which god of which religion?

So let me get this straight, everyone comes on this earth, just enjoys there life, once its over, goes into a dark place for eternity?

We die and our body decays and then that's it. Sorry, if that is hard for you to except. That's why this life is so precious. What do you think happens? You go to heaven and sit around with everyone whose died and is lucky enough to have found the correct religion for eternity Double WOW!

WOW,


Can't answer this simple question?

If they don't believe in Jesus, wouldn't that be a problem? I don't believe, according to your belief that they would go to heaven. So, my question again is, what if you were born in a Muslim country? 



 
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Posted: #235
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

So let me get this straight, everyone comes on this earth, just enjoys there life, once its over, goes into a dark place for eternity? 

I would say rots, but whatever makes you comfortable-

WOW,







 
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Posted: #236
Quote Originally Posted by Dead_Presidents:

Any reasonable person who reads the bible will recognize it as fiction.  I am amazed how that people can believe what the bible says is true and will  accept bronze age myths as facts.  The bible was written by people who thought the Earth was flat.  Why would any rational person believe in a talking snake, a 600 year old man that built a boat that housed at least two of every animal in the world.  This would include 10 million species.  That seems like a difficult task for a man of that age.  These myths are corrosive to rational thought and science.  There are people that believe that the dinosaurs existed with humans.  These people watch the flinstons as if it was a documentary.  Most Christians have not even read the entire bible.  I have read the bible and I gets much worse than just these fairy tale stories.  The bible promotes genocide, slavery, and rape.  Many are quick to cherry pick the topics that they like but discard the ones that they do not... The bible says anyone collecting sticks on the sabbath shoud be stoned to death.

The worst is these ignorant and delusional people believe they can force their irrational views on others.  I can't even buy beer on Sundays where I live because these people have contaminated the laws in my state with their nonsence.


 
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Posted: #237

Quote Originally Posted by Raiderpug:

THX George!

You couldn't have just posted this?......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPOfurmrjxo

 
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Posted: #238
Quote Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

Rapist......raped 89 people.  Finds God the last day before he dies.  He goes to heaven.

Girl has been sexually abused for 15 years.  Doesn't believe in God but finds her life calling and cures cancer. 

Rapist goes to heaven.  Girl goes to hell.

That makes sense.

You say God makes the choice, but you also say you know on what parameters God makes the choice (or you wouldn't live your live a certain way). 

There are two options:  1. You don't have any idea on what parameters God makes His choice but you think you do.  Or 2. God decides no matter what we think. 

Name me another option. 

 

to be honest i think god makes the choice no matter what i dont see good people going to hell, only God can see what is in the heart, Hutch i honestly hope the chick that gets raped and cures cancer goes to heaven, i want everyone there, i dont see heaven as a gated community of people that got lucky and choice the right path person to call god

 
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Posted: #239
spelling is going to be bad tonight, back pain had to hit a pain killer
 
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Posted: #240
Quote Originally Posted by boberts427:

to be honest i think god makes the choice no matter what i dont see good people going to hell, only God can see what is in the heart, Hutch i honestly hope the chick that gets raped and cures cancer goes to heaven, i want everyone there, i dont see heaven as a gated community of people that got lucky and choice the right path person to call god


On Sunday mornings, many would disagree with you-

Spread the word- 


Better yet-


Go Tell it on the Mountain-  
 
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Posted: #241

Each to there own, but when i walk outside, see the sun, sky, trees, mountains, oceans.............to me, i see GOD's creation.Only God can create that IMO.........

When i feel the love for my family, friends and neighbours, that echoes the love between GOD and myself.....

I believe, people who dont believe in GOd are lacking in love and are in a deep hole, it is easy in that case not to believe in him....

I pray that one day they do find him.......

 
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Posted: #242
I do not claim to know much, however, I recently wrote a philosophy paper over Descartes's meaning of human will and human knowledge which, if anyone has read the meditations, goes into the existence of god to a large extent. I feel like an excerpt, which includes Descartes beliefs through my words, could possibly lend something to the discussion:

 
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Posted: #243
Human knowledge and human-will, or free-will, through the eyes of Descartes, are the result of god’s creation of the human being—ironic perhaps that it is called so, as humans are finite and never actually are but instead are potential to be. And it is because of this understanding of human knowledge as being something finite with the capacity for infinity, but yet unobtainable because of the incomplete nature of human existence, that it is evidence of the existence of god. If it is considered that, in finding one truth, the negation of that truth can be found also; in turn, leading to the conclusion that, if humans live a finite, limited and dependent existence but have knowledge of the infinite and aspirations towards perfection, in spite of it being an unachievable desire—god then must live an infinite, unlimited and independent existence. An existence in which he simply is and never struggles with understanding or limitation because he exists independent of everything else which lends him to possess an infinity of knowledge and an infinity of free-will. With this considered, had god chosen to do so, humans could have been given these same qualities, those of infinite freewill as well as infinite knowledge. However, with infinite knowledge, there is not actually infinite free-will because, as explained earlier, the more knowledge that comes to be within a person, the more that it is required to suppress the desires of the free-will. Therefore, if knowledge were to be infinite in humans then they would possess no will at all since there would be no choices to make, as all of the answers would already be known. And if all of the answers were already known to humans then there would be no ontological question; even no philosophy. So then, because of god’s perfection, he willed human existence in a way that humans inherently search for knowledge and thus humans came to be philosophers; if only there weren’t so many deficient in understanding and allowing free-will to reign over their lives.

I hope this can help lend something to the discussion.
 
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Posted: #244
Quote Originally Posted by Dead_Presidents:

Any reasonable person who reads the bible will recognize it as fiction.  I am amazed how that people can believe what the bible says is true and will  accept bronze age myths as facts.  The bible was written by people who thought the Earth was flat.  Why would any rational person believe in a talking snake, a 600 year old man that built a boat that housed at least two of every animal in the world.  This would include 10 million species.  That seems like a difficult task for a man of that age.  These myths are corrosive to rational thought and science.  There are people that believe that the dinosaurs existed with humans.  These people watch the flinstons as if it was a documentary.  Most Christians have not even read the entire bible.  I have read the bible and I gets much worse than just these fairy tale stories.  The bible promotes genocide, slavery, and rape.  Many are quick to cherry pick the topics that they like but discard the ones that they do not... The bible says anyone collecting sticks on the sabbath shoud be stoned to death.

The worst is these ignorant and delusional people believe they can force their irrational views on others.  I can't even buy beer on Sundays where I live because these people have contaminated the laws in my state with their nonsence.



Not trying to pick a fight DP... I see where you are coming from... but putting Science and Religion against each other is causing man tons of problems. Science is knowledge with no morals. Religion is morals with no scientific basis. They are not in direct opposition to each other.

The only fight that science picks with religion is with "biblical literalists". People who interpret the bible literally make claims about the physical universe that SOME scientists believe can be proven false. You mentioned some: a talking snake, a 600 year old man, a boat holding every species, etc...

Not all religious people interpret the bible literally.

Some interpret it as fables where the moral is the point, not the details.

Science came directly from religion. Trace scientific lineage back far enough and you'll find an ancestor that was part of the church.

There's a quote, I'm to lazy to look it up now but, the gist of it is:

Science focuses it's energy on worshiping the watch while religion focuses on worshiping the watch maker.

I think it's possible, and perfectly rational, to reconcile the scientific and religious perspectives.

Should we pray to God to fix our car? Probably not. We should probably use scientific method to find the problem, test hypothesis, and fix it.

However, while science gives us plenty of information about the physical universe it doesn't appear to give us much information as to HOW we should live while we are in it.

SOME religious perspectives do just that.

The old story about the priest who was asked to sum up the bible in one sentence, "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you."

I'm not a "believer" but that's still pretty good moral advice.

Much of the argumentation in this thread is coming from contrasting the ancient laws of the bible with modern social laws. Particularly, American law. Most of those arguments make good points but when you look at the over all success of the American judicial system...

You can't help but wonder if we'd be better off with a little Old Testament "Eye for an Eye"...

I'm really just preaching "open minded / critical thinking". Whenever we jump on opposite sides of a coin, we just wind up yelling heads and tails at each other.






 
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Posted: #245

Quote Originally Posted by spoondiggidy9:

Human knowledge and human-will, or free-will, through the eyes of Descartes, are the result of god’s creation of the human being—ironic perhaps that it is called so, as humans are finite and never actually are but instead are potential to be. And it is because of this understanding of human knowledge as being something finite with the capacity for infinity, but yet unobtainable because of the incomplete nature of human existence, that it is evidence of the existence of god. If it is considered that, in finding one truth, the negation of that truth can be found also; in turn, leading to the conclusion that, if humans live a finite, limited and dependent existence but have knowledge of the infinite and aspirations towards perfection, in spite of it being an unachievable desire—god then must live an infinite, unlimited and independent existence. An existence in which he simply is and never struggles with understanding or limitation because he exists independent of everything else which lends him to possess an infinity of knowledge and an infinity of free-will. With this considered, had god chosen to do so, humans could have been given these same qualities, those of infinite freewill as well as infinite knowledge. However, with infinite knowledge, there is not actually infinite free-will because, as explained earlier, the more knowledge that comes to be within a person, the more that it is required to suppress the desires of the free-will. Therefore, if knowledge were to be infinite in humans then they would possess no will at all since there would be no choices to make, as all of the answers would already be known. And if all of the answers were already known to humans then there would be no ontological question; even no philosophy. So then, because of god’s perfection, he willed human existence in a way that humans inherently search for knowledge and thus humans came to be philosophers; if only there weren’t so many deficient in understanding and allowing free-will to reign over their lives.

I hope this can help lend something to the discussion.

Descartes examined himself further, and he found that he had in his mind the notion of a 'perfect being'. From this, he concluded that god must exist, in the following way:

1. I exist (Axiom)
2. I have in my mind the notion of a perfect being (Axiom, partly based on 1)
3. An imperfect being, like myself, cannot think up the notion of a perfect being (Axiom)
4. Therefore the notion of a perfect being must have originated from the perfect being himself (from 2 & 3)
5. A perfect being would not be perfect if it did not exist (Axiom)
6. Therefore a perfect being must exist (from 4 & 5)

But is this valid reasoning? Should this argument convince us that there is a god? I will now point out the weak spots in his reasoning.

I think we can all agree that point 1 is a valid axiom. We can all be sure that we at least exist. No problem there.

The second axiom however is not so obviously true. Maybe Descartes had an idea of the perfect entity in his mind, but I certainly don't have such an idea. What am I to believe? That God failed to put that idea into my mind, or that Descartes' idea of this perfect being was not as innate as he thought? It is obvious that not all of us have this idea. In fact, many Christians have told me that mankind cannot conceive God. This is in direct contradiction with Descartes' belief that everybody has this idea of a perfect being from birth on.

The third axiom is weaker still. Descartes postulates that an imperfect being can never think up the notion of a perfect being. But can we accept this as truth? Why would this be impossible? The imperfect being does not have to understand or contain the perfect being, it only has to think up the notion 'perfect being'. If an imperfect being can have an idea of a perfect being, why couldn't he think it up? And if we say that an imperfect being can not think up the notion of a perfect being, can we be sure that an imperfect being could recognize the notion of a perfect being? Maybe the notion Descartes had was in fact of an imperfect being, but seemed perfect to the imperfect mind of the imperfect Descartes.

Not only that, but who or what can define the notion 'perfect'? Many philosophers have argued that good and evil do not exist objectively, but are in the mind of the beholder; since a perfect being must be ultimately good, the definition of a perfect being is also in the mind of the beholder. If the imagined God differs from person to person, must we then say that there are as many Gods as there are people? A counter-argument could be that the notions of Him God has placed on us are not perfect, and thus we can differ in opinion about evil, good and God. But in this case, we wouldn't have the idea of a perfect being, but of an almost perfect being, and Descartes entire argument breaks down.

 
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Posted: #246

Another question to ponder:  Let's say you believe in God.  Are certain actions on your part (let's say volunteering at a food kitchen....or a nursing home....or mowing your neighbors lawn) considered pious because God loves them.  Or does He love those actions because they are pious?

 
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Posted: #247
Quote Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

Another question to ponder:  Let's say you believe in God.  Are certain actions on your part (let's say volunteering at a food kitchen....or a nursing home....or mowing your neighbors lawn) considered pious because God loves them.  Or does He love those actions because they are pious?



In the dogma of certain Judeo-Christian religions...

Actions are considered pious because God loves them.

In those type of belief systems, God is the highest moral order.
 
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Posted: #248

[Quote: Originally Posted by HutchEmAll]

Another question to ponder:  Let's say you believe in God.  Are certain actions on your part (let's say volunteering at a food kitchen....or a nursing home....or mowing your neighbors lawn) considered pious because God loves them.  Or does He love those actions because they are pious?

[/Quote]

God would love them because they are pious.
 
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Posted: #249
I have something written in response to your post hutch, however covers is being obnoxious and not letting me copy and paste it from word. I will keep trying but know I do have something coming
 
 
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Posted: #250

spoon-

Interesting that you and MrGlue answered differently.  Would be happy to discuss further if you can get your post to work.  I don't claim to know what is what....I have a lot more questions then answers.  But that's how you learn. 

Glue-

Then on what basis or criteria does God decide if He loves something?

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