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November Stock Talk III

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Posted: #26
Quote Originally Posted by KOAJ:

wall - i dont think CCL wants failure...just wants everyone to deleverage and be normal banks and make their stupid spread on all of their deposits. thats how i want it

Right on, Koaj.

WSC-

As much as you know about economics, I too am shocked-----that you are a proponent of these bailout packages for all "the cronies" who got us in this mess.

These "executives" need to be "executed," and I am not joking one bit-----I mean it 100%. 

These "bailout packages" will keep these scoundrels who caused the problem alive and kicking-----and you and I will pick up the tab for their European vacations, tutition so their children can attend private boarding schools, and 10,000 square foot additions to their mansions in the Hamptons.  You down with that?  Are you one of Paulson's cronies?

I am all about free market capitalism, WSC, where failures and crashes are part of the process.  They are accepted and expected, too.  Nothing lasts forever.  These bankers, auto makers, etc...... ran amok for decades, and now it is time for their end to come.

Yes, WSC, I'd much rather have "complete chaos" right now than put a bandaid on the broken machine, whose operators are taking your and my freedoms away right in front of our faces.

What I want is for the market to sort itself out-----no matter how long it takes and whose lives it takes.  No bailout packages for these hideous people.  Way it works.

Can't privatize profits and socialize debt, and you know that.

Cheers

 
Covers Linesmen
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Posted: #27
i'm only semi-ok with any of this stuff if it prevents systemic failure...but as of this morning we have about 7T pledged and we're not one ounce better off

do any of you know what's on GS/JPM/MS/C's balance sheet? until we do, there will be distrust everywhere and there's nothing the bald, the beard, geithner, or the messiah can do about it
 
Covers Linesmen
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Posted: #28
read

then reread tomorrow and the next day and keep reading until you understand what was done and what has to be undone to be whole again
 
Covers Linesmen
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Posted: #29
I am not ok with the bailouts but I am even WORSE not ok with the consequences of not taking these actions.

Free markets not functioning were what got us in this pickle..the FED printing like crazy, the regulators not doing their jobs..thats not free market activity.

We dug a hole and it will take some pain and time to cover up this hole. I dont consider a system failure as an acceptable consequence.

One good thing that will come from this is that the companies who take the bait are screwed for years.. AIG and C arent going to move at all..their float is huge, obligation huge..so these companies arent going to run back to the highs for a decade or longer..if ever.  
 
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Posted: #30
None of this will prevent a cataclysmic systemic failure in the future (5-10 years).
 
The only things these bailout packages will do are:
 
1) Provide Paulson with a 150 million dollar a year job when his treasury term is up.
 
2) Fleece "Joe The Taxpayer" via higher taxes.
 
3) Create hyperinflation in 2, 2.5 years that will make summer of '08 look like the local kid raising prices down at his lemonade stand from 5 cents to 6 cents a cup.
 
4) Lay the groundwork for a "New World Order" that will curtail all freedoms, period.
 
 Endorsing these bailout packages is like signing your own death warrant (as far as freedoms go).
 
These soundrels that caused the mess should literally all hang.
 
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Posted: #31
WSC-
 
When subprime broke in Jul '07, the "emergency rate cuts" and "opening the discount window" were also "bailout packages."
 
Bernanke is as equally reprehensible as Paulson for those shenanigans.
 
I am not sure if there is a "preferred work method" for the FED Chairman, but from what I do know-----"the sole goal of the Federal Reserve is to maintain a sound currency."  That doesn't mean policing the stock and bond markets cause you think the price of "General Electric" is too high, or bailing out your cronies at the expense of "Joe The Taxpayer."
 
Legend
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Posted: #32
that "dead Merrill Lynch bull" pic should be with it's head chopped off ala the ox killing scene near the end of "Apocalypse Now". either that or a pic of a gutted "golden goose" because that childerns tale probably even better describes what happened with those greedy fuckers on Wall Street  
 
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Posted: #33
Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:



One good thing that will come from this is that the companies who take the bait are screwed for years.. AIG and C arent going to move at all..their float is huge, obligation huge..so these companies arent going to run back to the highs for a decade or longer..if ever.  

Well done.  See, that is exactly what I am trying to say.

The farking "stock price" won't move---yeah, that's right.  But the farking "executives" that got us in this mess will still draw a 50 million dollar a year salary----paid for by higher taxes on you and me.

How on earth can you endorse this mularkey, WSC?  How?

 
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Posted: #34
CC,

Its the consequences..they are larger than the companies themselves.

You need to get over the anger about exec pay and realize that the companies serve a huge purpose, and directly AND indirectly provide thousands maybe millions of jobs.

THAT is why the FED and government are doing this bailout, as a country we cannot allow our financial system to implode in the name of a free market because the free market did not cause this to happen in the first place.

If you want Greek style of punishment, you wont find it here. Unfortunately it is a necessary action we have to take, like it or not.     
 
Legend
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Posted: #35
btw, that's a long but excellent read, KOAJ
 
hope you don't mind but I put it in "general discussions" under "want to know why the market tanked?"
 
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Posted: #36
WSC-
 
I do respect your opinions, very much so.
 
Moreover, it is good that we can agree to disagree in this particular forum (cause you damn sure can't do it anywhere else without a playground fight breaking out).
 
That being written, you and I are NOT going to see eye to eye on the way the economy is being presently handled.  I can accept that. 
 
Now we'll see what happens in the future.
 
Since you and I are both gamblers, I'll lay a "monopoly wager" with you and bet that the result of these bailout packages will not make you happy one bit 5-6 years from now when the final outcome has been tallied and registered.
 
Higher Taxes
Higher Prices
Freedoms Gone
 
Set it all in stone.
 
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Posted: #37
Quote Originally Posted by LeRinkRat:

btw, that's a long but excellent read, KOAJ
 
hope you don't mind but I put it in "general discussions" under "want to know why the market tanked?"


not at all...i recommend readin Liar's Poker or anything else Lewis has written...he's excellent
 
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Posted: #38
Wow..

This is either a massive short cover or a bottom for longs.

Volume huge and they are moving it up strongly.
 
Veteran
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Posted: #39

 Methinks a trap...I am selling into all rallies...

 
Veteran
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Posted: #40
Quote Originally Posted by jaxwhitey:

Hey Vermeer do you have a link for this Citi info?  I'd like to read more about it


Sorry just noticed this...here is one of multiple articles referring to it

https://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/nov2008/db20081121_876842.htm?campaign_id=rss_topStories_msnbc
 
Prospect
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Posted: #41
Bought EEV at 80 today as a hedge. 
 
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Posted: #42
Quote Originally Posted by Vermeer:


 Methinks a trap...I am selling into all rallies...



 
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Posted: #43
This crap today and Friday is just that.....crap.
 
Nothing but short covering and dumb money (or trading money) buying.
 
The economy is horrific, going to get worse, and the bailout packages being rammed down our throats will do nothing except increase taxes, cause hyperinflation, take away our freedoms, and allow for these banker fckus to continue on their merry way.  Only those on the crony payroll or those in total and complete denial can't see/accept the reality.
 
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Posted: #44
And oh by the way.....
 
Obama doesn't know what the f he is doing.  The man is nothing but a fish out of water making promises that will literally blow up in his face.
 
MVP
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Posted: #45
What yall think of this chart?  I think it shows the economists really have no clue what they are doing...I dunno
 
 
I hope it works...I am clueless on how to enter a link on this site
 
MVP
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Posted: #46
The graph I was referring too is the 2nd one   Pretty cool graph I guess
 
Banned
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Posted: #47
Hey WSC...as we are all aware, you and others in this forum have close interest in DRYS.

I have been looking at some Jan/2011 Leaps and am making serious considerations for $2.80 a contract.

In today's market, DRYS isn't the only company that a couple months ago was $100+ and is now <$5.  What are your thoughts on taking the approach of buys LEAPS for some of these recent hi value stocks that are now in the toilet.  Potash maybe another candidate for me.  Dare I say Ford as a candidate?

Both are in very good earnings positions that I would say have been victims of shorts.
 
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Posted: #48
Quote Originally Posted by Sn8wman:

Hey WSC...as we are all aware, you and others in this forum have close interest in DRYS.

I have been looking at some Jan/2011 Leaps and am making serious considerations for $2.80 a contract.

In today's market, DRYS isn't the only company that a couple months ago was $100+ and is now <$5.  What are your thoughts on taking the approach of buys LEAPS for some of these recent hi value stocks that are now in the toilet.  Potash maybe another candidate for me.  Dare I say Ford as a candidate?

Both are in very good earnings positions that I would say have been victims of shorts.




I need to clarify my last statement (Potash and DRYS) are in good earnings positions, F is certainly not.
 
Veteran
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Posted: #49
If you like DRYS I would just buy the stock itself at these prices.  Its basically an option with no expiration.

Same thing with C, UYG, GM or F for that matter
 
 
Covers Linesmen
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Posted: #50
Yeah at 4 bucks I would just buy the stock.

If you wanted options make sure you go for something that gives you better than 2 to 1 leverage.

The 2.50s are like buying on margin long the stock, the 5s are too expensive relative to the common.

There is ZERO value in those leaps, get 5000 shares and forget the options.


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