well becasue he has only pitched in 2 post season games and one he had a 5 run lead and the other he had a 9 run deficit. So hes never really been in a pressure situation. unless u consider passing the sox in the standings halfway through the season a pressure situation. althouhg he did pitch well in those 2 postseason games 5 innings 1 run. but i wouldnt trust him becasue hes never been in that situation before.
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Quote Originally Posted by Sparky10191:
Why not?
well becasue he has only pitched in 2 post season games and one he had a 5 run lead and the other he had a 9 run deficit. So hes never really been in a pressure situation. unless u consider passing the sox in the standings halfway through the season a pressure situation. althouhg he did pitch well in those 2 postseason games 5 innings 1 run. but i wouldnt trust him becasue hes never been in that situation before.
I believe FIP is the same as expected ERA, but it is what I use. It basically means fielding independent ERA. It is an ERA based solely on how the pitcher pitches and not how the fielders field. It basically reduces the variability of fielding behind him, which can be seen based on how different pitchers have different BABIPs.
Here's a formal definition: Fielding Independent Pitching, a measure of all those things for which
a pitcher is specifically responsible. The formula is
(HR*13+(BB+HBP-IBB)*3-K*2)/IP, plus a league-specific factor (usually
around 3.2) to round out the number to an equivalent ERA number. FIP
helps you understand how well a pitcher pitched, regardless of how well
his fielders fielded. FIP was invented by Tangotiger.
FIPs:
Mo 2.02 FIP: 2.86
Aceves 3.14 FIP: 4.11
Robertson 3.24 FIP: 3.15
Hughes 3.49.....This is skewed those because of the terrible starts that he had. FIP: 3.47
Coke 4.88 FIP: 4.90
Bruney 5.11 FIP: 4.38
Pap 2.17 FIP: 3.55
Ramirez 2.32 FIP: 4.18
Bard 2.88 FIP: 2.97
Okajima 3.00 FIP: 3.75
Saito 3.07 FIP: 4.77
Delcarmen 3.26 FIP: 3.79
Sox
If it interests anyone, this is a list of the pens taht you can filter by FIP: https://www.fangraphs.com/teams.aspx?pos=all&stats=rel&lg=all&type=1&season=2009&month=0
Best according to these stats? The ATL Braves.
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I believe FIP is the same as expected ERA, but it is what I use. It basically means fielding independent ERA. It is an ERA based solely on how the pitcher pitches and not how the fielders field. It basically reduces the variability of fielding behind him, which can be seen based on how different pitchers have different BABIPs.
Here's a formal definition: Fielding Independent Pitching, a measure of all those things for which
a pitcher is specifically responsible. The formula is
(HR*13+(BB+HBP-IBB)*3-K*2)/IP, plus a league-specific factor (usually
around 3.2) to round out the number to an equivalent ERA number. FIP
helps you understand how well a pitcher pitched, regardless of how well
his fielders fielded. FIP was invented by Tangotiger.
FIPs:
Mo 2.02 FIP: 2.86
Aceves 3.14 FIP: 4.11
Robertson 3.24 FIP: 3.15
Hughes 3.49.....This is skewed those because of the terrible starts that he had. FIP: 3.47
Coke 4.88 FIP: 4.90
Bruney 5.11 FIP: 4.38
Pap 2.17 FIP: 3.55
Ramirez 2.32 FIP: 4.18
Bard 2.88 FIP: 2.97
Okajima 3.00 FIP: 3.75
Saito 3.07 FIP: 4.77
Delcarmen 3.26 FIP: 3.79
Sox
If it interests anyone, this is a list of the pens taht you can filter by FIP: https://www.fangraphs.com/teams.aspx?pos=all&stats=rel&lg=all&type=1&season=2009&month=0
well becasue he has only pitched in 2 post season games and one he had a 5 run lead and the other he had a 9 run deficit. So hes never really been in a pressure situation. unless u consider passing the sox in the standings halfway through the season a pressure situation. althouhg he did pitch well in those 2 postseason games 5 innings 1 run. but i wouldnt trust him becasue hes never been in that situation before.
Well neither Bard nor Ramirez have had playoff experience and Delcarmen's postseason ERA is 11.42. I rather have a guy who at least pitched well in the postseason. And for the Yanks, after being 0-8 and having EVERYONE rag on them, pitching against the Red Sox WAS a pressure situation.
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Quote Originally Posted by papsmear:
well becasue he has only pitched in 2 post season games and one he had a 5 run lead and the other he had a 9 run deficit. So hes never really been in a pressure situation. unless u consider passing the sox in the standings halfway through the season a pressure situation. althouhg he did pitch well in those 2 postseason games 5 innings 1 run. but i wouldnt trust him becasue hes never been in that situation before.
Well neither Bard nor Ramirez have had playoff experience and Delcarmen's postseason ERA is 11.42. I rather have a guy who at least pitched well in the postseason. And for the Yanks, after being 0-8 and having EVERYONE rag on them, pitching against the Red Sox WAS a pressure situation.
My mistake...I totally scred up Hughe's BP ERA. I didn't know I could find it on ESPN, I tried doing it by hand...didn't work.
Hughes' bullpen ERA is 1.39
And that Aceves ERA is a little misleading. He had a start this season(not a good one).
Aceves' bullpen ERA is 2.83.
So we have 3 pitchers with an ERA under 3 in the pen as well.
I will still take my 4 over any 4 that you want to put together.....And I guess I would throw in Delcarmen and put him up against any 5 that you want to put together .
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Quote Originally Posted by Sparky10191:
My mistake...I totally scred up Hughe's BP ERA. I didn't know I could find it on ESPN, I tried doing it by hand...didn't work.
Hughes' bullpen ERA is 1.39
And that Aceves ERA is a little misleading. He had a start this season(not a good one).
Aceves' bullpen ERA is 2.83.
So we have 3 pitchers with an ERA under 3 in the pen as well.
I will still take my 4 over any 4 that you want to put together.....And I guess I would throw in Delcarmen and put him up against any 5 that you want to put together .
I believe FIP is the same as expected ERA, but it is what I use. It basically means fielding independent ERA. It is an ERA based solely on how the pitcher pitches and not how the fielders field. It basically reduces the variability of fielding behind him, which can be seen based on how different pitchers have different BABIPs.
Well thats a BS stat. Whats the point in getting pitcher's stats without fielders? Wouldn't that be like batting practice? And we've seen how great that Braves' BP is(not that great).
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Quote Originally Posted by andy88c:
I believe FIP is the same as expected ERA, but it is what I use. It basically means fielding independent ERA. It is an ERA based solely on how the pitcher pitches and not how the fielders field. It basically reduces the variability of fielding behind him, which can be seen based on how different pitchers have different BABIPs.
Well thats a BS stat. Whats the point in getting pitcher's stats without fielders? Wouldn't that be like batting practice? And we've seen how great that Braves' BP is(not that great).
I think FIP is a LOT LOT LOT more important to evaluating an RP than an SP because it does heavily value HRs, which is a critical part of being an effective reliever. The longball is a no-no. So while an SP can grind and scatter hits around and a HR now and then, an RP should really try to keep men off base.
I think the best way to look at an RP's success is through 1. FIP and 2. BAA. BAA tells us what hitters hit against him. FIP explains HRs and BBs/HBPs, but not the shit ton of hits that an RP might give up. With these two statistics in mind, a story can be told.
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Addendum on FIP in regards to RPs.
I think FIP is a LOT LOT LOT more important to evaluating an RP than an SP because it does heavily value HRs, which is a critical part of being an effective reliever. The longball is a no-no. So while an SP can grind and scatter hits around and a HR now and then, an RP should really try to keep men off base.
I think the best way to look at an RP's success is through 1. FIP and 2. BAA. BAA tells us what hitters hit against him. FIP explains HRs and BBs/HBPs, but not the shit ton of hits that an RP might give up. With these two statistics in mind, a story can be told.
Well neither Bard nor Ramirez have had playoff experience and Delcarmen's postseason ERA is 11.42. I rather have a guy who at least pitched well in the postseason. And for the Yanks, after being 0-8 and having EVERYONE rag on them, pitching against the Red Sox WAS a pressure situation.
i know bard and ramirez have no post season experience. and i hope they dont use them in a close game in the post season. i dont trust either of those guys nor do i trust delcarmen. but i trust paplebon and okajima becuase they are battle tested. i trust rivera. but i cant say that about any other yankee reliever. and regular season does have pressue but its nowhere near the same level. jsut look at how good cc is during regular season and how he always chokes in the post season.
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Quote Originally Posted by Sparky10191:
Well neither Bard nor Ramirez have had playoff experience and Delcarmen's postseason ERA is 11.42. I rather have a guy who at least pitched well in the postseason. And for the Yanks, after being 0-8 and having EVERYONE rag on them, pitching against the Red Sox WAS a pressure situation.
i know bard and ramirez have no post season experience. and i hope they dont use them in a close game in the post season. i dont trust either of those guys nor do i trust delcarmen. but i trust paplebon and okajima becuase they are battle tested. i trust rivera. but i cant say that about any other yankee reliever. and regular season does have pressue but its nowhere near the same level. jsut look at how good cc is during regular season and how he always chokes in the post season.
I will still take my 4 over any 4 that you want to put together.....And I guess I would throw in Delcarmen and put him up against any 5 that you want to put together .
Aceves, Hughes, Mariano, and...well...Joba? He could come out of the bullpen come the postseason.
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Quote Originally Posted by Papi_4_MVP:
I will still take my 4 over any 4 that you want to put together.....And I guess I would throw in Delcarmen and put him up against any 5 that you want to put together .
Aceves, Hughes, Mariano, and...well...Joba? He could come out of the bullpen come the postseason.
I believe FIP is the same as expected ERA, but it is what I use. It basically means fielding independent ERA. It is an ERA based solely on how the pitcher pitches and not how the fielders field. It basically reduces the variability of fielding behind him, which can be seen based on how different pitchers have different BABIPs.
Here's a formal definition: Fielding Independent Pitching, a measure of all those things for which a pitcher is specifically responsible. The formula is (HR*13+(BB+HBP-IBB)*3-K*2)/IP, plus a league-specific factor (usually around 3.2) to round out the number to an equivalent ERA number. FIP helps you understand how well a pitcher pitched, regardless of how well his fielders fielded. FIP was invented by Tangotiger.
FIPs:
Mo 2.02 FIP: 2.86
Aceves 3.14 FIP: 4.11
Robertson 3.24 FIP: 3.15
Hughes 3.49.....This is skewed those because of the terrible starts that he had. FIP: 3.47
Coke 4.88 FIP: 4.90
Bruney 5.11 FIP: 4.38
Pap 2.17 FIP: 3.55
Ramirez 2.32 FIP: 4.18
Bard 2.88 FIP: 2.97
Okajima 3.00 FIP: 3.75
Saito 3.07 FIP: 4.77
Delcarmen 3.26 FIP: 3.79
Sox
If it interests anyone, this is a list of the pens taht you can filter by FIP: https://www.fangraphs.com/teams.aspx?pos=all&stats=rel&lg=all&type=1&season=2009&month=0
Best according to these stats? The ATL Braves.
I think that I will stick with the true stats of the ERA......I dont need any kind of statistical analysis done on the stats....I feel like Jpero is in this conversation.....Speaking of him, where the hell has he been.....Felix Pie hit for the cycle tonight....I bet he creamed in his pants
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Quote Originally Posted by andy88c:
I believe FIP is the same as expected ERA, but it is what I use. It basically means fielding independent ERA. It is an ERA based solely on how the pitcher pitches and not how the fielders field. It basically reduces the variability of fielding behind him, which can be seen based on how different pitchers have different BABIPs.
Here's a formal definition: Fielding Independent Pitching, a measure of all those things for which a pitcher is specifically responsible. The formula is (HR*13+(BB+HBP-IBB)*3-K*2)/IP, plus a league-specific factor (usually around 3.2) to round out the number to an equivalent ERA number. FIP helps you understand how well a pitcher pitched, regardless of how well his fielders fielded. FIP was invented by Tangotiger.
FIPs:
Mo 2.02 FIP: 2.86
Aceves 3.14 FIP: 4.11
Robertson 3.24 FIP: 3.15
Hughes 3.49.....This is skewed those because of the terrible starts that he had. FIP: 3.47
Coke 4.88 FIP: 4.90
Bruney 5.11 FIP: 4.38
Pap 2.17 FIP: 3.55
Ramirez 2.32 FIP: 4.18
Bard 2.88 FIP: 2.97
Okajima 3.00 FIP: 3.75
Saito 3.07 FIP: 4.77
Delcarmen 3.26 FIP: 3.79
Sox
If it interests anyone, this is a list of the pens taht you can filter by FIP: https://www.fangraphs.com/teams.aspx?pos=all&stats=rel&lg=all&type=1&season=2009&month=0
Best according to these stats? The ATL Braves.
I think that I will stick with the true stats of the ERA......I dont need any kind of statistical analysis done on the stats....I feel like Jpero is in this conversation.....Speaking of him, where the hell has he been.....Felix Pie hit for the cycle tonight....I bet he creamed in his pants
Well thats a BS stat. Whats the point in getting pitcher's stats without fielders? Wouldn't that be like batting practice? And we've seen how great that Braves' BP is(not that great).
Braves BP has been a lot better untill recently with that POS Soriano....I have been on 2 of his screwups recently
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Quote Originally Posted by Sparky10191:
Well thats a BS stat. Whats the point in getting pitcher's stats without fielders? Wouldn't that be like batting practice? And we've seen how great that Braves' BP is(not that great).
Braves BP has been a lot better untill recently with that POS Soriano....I have been on 2 of his screwups recently
Well thats a BS stat. Whats the point in getting pitcher's stats without fielders? Wouldn't that be like batting practice? And we've seen how great that Braves' BP is(not that great).
No, because it normalizes all the pitchers' stats so that an FIP is derived that does not take into account how good or bad your fielders are.
Take this example:
Which IF defense would you rather have: 3B Longoria, SS Andrus, 2B Cano, 1B Tex or 3B Lowell, SS Y. Betancourt, 2B Jeff Kent (if he wasn't retired), 1B Nick Johnson
There are clear differences between defenses of different temas. So by taking that variability away, you have an even playing field for all the pitchers, because we are taking away the DIFFERENCES in defense. We aren't taking away defense on a whole.
Also, this basically helps eliminate differences in BABIP, which means batting average on balls in play. The league norm is around .290-.300, but some pitchers are very unlucky and have a shit ton of hits on them on balls hit in play, while others are very lucky. While I would agree that some pitchers are just gas cans and should end up having a higher BABIP, when you have a kid with a .380 BABIP, you know that he's been unlucky to some extent.
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Quote Originally Posted by Sparky10191:
Well thats a BS stat. Whats the point in getting pitcher's stats without fielders? Wouldn't that be like batting practice? And we've seen how great that Braves' BP is(not that great).
No, because it normalizes all the pitchers' stats so that an FIP is derived that does not take into account how good or bad your fielders are.
Take this example:
Which IF defense would you rather have: 3B Longoria, SS Andrus, 2B Cano, 1B Tex or 3B Lowell, SS Y. Betancourt, 2B Jeff Kent (if he wasn't retired), 1B Nick Johnson
There are clear differences between defenses of different temas. So by taking that variability away, you have an even playing field for all the pitchers, because we are taking away the DIFFERENCES in defense. We aren't taking away defense on a whole.
Also, this basically helps eliminate differences in BABIP, which means batting average on balls in play. The league norm is around .290-.300, but some pitchers are very unlucky and have a shit ton of hits on them on balls hit in play, while others are very lucky. While I would agree that some pitchers are just gas cans and should end up having a higher BABIP, when you have a kid with a .380 BABIP, you know that he's been unlucky to some extent.
No, because it normalizes all the pitchers' stats so that an FIP is derived that does not take into account how good or bad your fielders are.
Take this example:
Which IF defense would you rather have: 3B Longoria, SS Andrus, 2B Cano, 1B Tex or 3B Lowell, SS Y. Betancourt, 2B Jeff Kent (if he wasn't retired), 1B Nick Johnson
There are clear differences between defenses of different temas. So by taking that variability away, you have an even playing field for all the pitchers, because we are taking away the DIFFERENCES in defense. We aren't taking away defense on a whole.
Also, this basically helps eliminate differences in BABIP, which means batting average on balls in play. The league norm is around .290-.300, but some pitchers are very unlucky and have a shit ton of hits on them on balls hit in play, while others are very lucky. While I would agree that some pitchers are just gas cans and should end up having a higher BABIP, when you have a kid with a .380 BABIP, you know that he's been unlucky to some extent.
O god......Jpero part 2
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Quote Originally Posted by andy88c:
No, because it normalizes all the pitchers' stats so that an FIP is derived that does not take into account how good or bad your fielders are.
Take this example:
Which IF defense would you rather have: 3B Longoria, SS Andrus, 2B Cano, 1B Tex or 3B Lowell, SS Y. Betancourt, 2B Jeff Kent (if he wasn't retired), 1B Nick Johnson
There are clear differences between defenses of different temas. So by taking that variability away, you have an even playing field for all the pitchers, because we are taking away the DIFFERENCES in defense. We aren't taking away defense on a whole.
Also, this basically helps eliminate differences in BABIP, which means batting average on balls in play. The league norm is around .290-.300, but some pitchers are very unlucky and have a shit ton of hits on them on balls hit in play, while others are very lucky. While I would agree that some pitchers are just gas cans and should end up having a higher BABIP, when you have a kid with a .380 BABIP, you know that he's been unlucky to some extent.
i know bard and ramirez have no post season experience. and i hope they dont use them in a close game in the post season. i dont trust either of those guys nor do i trust delcarmen. but i trust paplebon and okajima becuase they are battle tested. i trust rivera. but i cant say that about any other yankee reliever. and regular season does have pressue but its nowhere near the same level. jsut look at how good cc is during regular season and how he always chokes in the post season.
Well it looks like we'll see what happens. K-Rod busted out on the scene with no problems in 2002. Hughes has at least had success, so I do trust him. Everyone has to deal with pressure at some point in their career.
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Quote Originally Posted by papsmear:
i know bard and ramirez have no post season experience. and i hope they dont use them in a close game in the post season. i dont trust either of those guys nor do i trust delcarmen. but i trust paplebon and okajima becuase they are battle tested. i trust rivera. but i cant say that about any other yankee reliever. and regular season does have pressue but its nowhere near the same level. jsut look at how good cc is during regular season and how he always chokes in the post season.
Well it looks like we'll see what happens. K-Rod busted out on the scene with no problems in 2002. Hughes has at least had success, so I do trust him. Everyone has to deal with pressure at some point in their career.
No, because it normalizes all the pitchers' stats so that an FIP is derived that does not take into account how good or bad your fielders are.
Take this example:
Which IF defense would you rather have: 3B Longoria, SS Andrus, 2B Cano, 1B Tex or 3B Lowell, SS Y. Betancourt, 2B Jeff Kent (if he wasn't retired), 1B Nick Johnson
There are clear differences between defenses of different temas. So by taking that variability away, you have an even playing field for all the pitchers, because we are taking away the DIFFERENCES in defense. We aren't taking away defense on a whole.
Also, this basically helps eliminate differences in BABIP, which means batting average on balls in play. The league norm is around .290-.300, but some pitchers are very unlucky and have a shit ton of hits on them on balls hit in play, while others are very lucky. While I would agree that some pitchers are just gas cans and should end up having a higher BABIP, when you have a kid with a .380 BABIP, you know that he's been unlucky to some extent.
Now your just being difficult. Get me stats on the best "FIP" over the past 10 years and I'm curious to see how many won the World Series. If it's more than not...I'll take it more seriously.
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Quote Originally Posted by andy88c:
No, because it normalizes all the pitchers' stats so that an FIP is derived that does not take into account how good or bad your fielders are.
Take this example:
Which IF defense would you rather have: 3B Longoria, SS Andrus, 2B Cano, 1B Tex or 3B Lowell, SS Y. Betancourt, 2B Jeff Kent (if he wasn't retired), 1B Nick Johnson
There are clear differences between defenses of different temas. So by taking that variability away, you have an even playing field for all the pitchers, because we are taking away the DIFFERENCES in defense. We aren't taking away defense on a whole.
Also, this basically helps eliminate differences in BABIP, which means batting average on balls in play. The league norm is around .290-.300, but some pitchers are very unlucky and have a shit ton of hits on them on balls hit in play, while others are very lucky. While I would agree that some pitchers are just gas cans and should end up having a higher BABIP, when you have a kid with a .380 BABIP, you know that he's been unlucky to some extent.
Now your just being difficult. Get me stats on the best "FIP" over the past 10 years and I'm curious to see how many won the World Series. If it's more than not...I'll take it more seriously.
Well it looks like we'll see what happens. K-Rod busted out on the scene with no problems in 2002. Hughes has at least had success, so I do trust him. Everyone has to deal with pressure at some point in their career.
ya i think we gotta wait for the playoffs to see who proves it. i hope we get a sox yankees series again jsut like old times.
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Quote Originally Posted by Sparky10191:
Well it looks like we'll see what happens. K-Rod busted out on the scene with no problems in 2002. Hughes has at least had success, so I do trust him. Everyone has to deal with pressure at some point in their career.
ya i think we gotta wait for the playoffs to see who proves it. i hope we get a sox yankees series again jsut like old times.
FIP is a better indicator of FUTURE success than ERA is. Under that
premise, if you RETROACTIVELY look at statistics of a given year, a pen
with a better ERA should technically have better results. But using
that ERA to predict future success is very iffy.
The point is that an ERA for a reliever is a very iffy statistic to
look at because relievers give up such a small sample size of runs that
are actually charged to them in the long run...unless they are
terrible. Another useful statistic for relievers is this..what if
someone has a two run lead...comes in with the bases inherited loaded
with one out. A better reliever would give up as few runs as possible,
no? But the runs, even if given up, would not be charged to him. How
does your ERA statistic measure that?
I doubt there are compiled FIP statistics for the last ten years. It's a relatively newer innovation.
Y'all really need to read a Bill James book or something. If you don't
buy into it, at the very least it'll give you a different perspective
to look at things.
0
FIP is a better indicator of FUTURE success than ERA is. Under that
premise, if you RETROACTIVELY look at statistics of a given year, a pen
with a better ERA should technically have better results. But using
that ERA to predict future success is very iffy.
The point is that an ERA for a reliever is a very iffy statistic to
look at because relievers give up such a small sample size of runs that
are actually charged to them in the long run...unless they are
terrible. Another useful statistic for relievers is this..what if
someone has a two run lead...comes in with the bases inherited loaded
with one out. A better reliever would give up as few runs as possible,
no? But the runs, even if given up, would not be charged to him. How
does your ERA statistic measure that?
I doubt there are compiled FIP statistics for the last ten years. It's a relatively newer innovation.
Y'all really need to read a Bill James book or something. If you don't
buy into it, at the very least it'll give you a different perspective
to look at things.
"Expected era" is basically what their era should be which is based on bb/9, k/9 and groundball%. Forget actual eras, they are based on a small sample size of innings pitched in the bullpen. Hit% and Strand%'s throw off their actual eras.
All those boston guys with eras in the 2 actually have expeced eras in the 4's meaning that they are getting very fortunate.
Here are the expected era's:
Boston:
Bard: 2.8
Papelbon: 3.74
Okajima: 3.99
R. Ramirez: 4.47
Saito: 4.72
Delcarmen: 4.86
F. Cabrera (Projected): 4.84
Average: 4.20
Yanks:
Rivera: 2.08
Hughes: 2.28 (since reliever-only)
Robertson: 3.11
Aceves: 3.71
Bruney: 3.83
Gaudin: 3.97
Coke: 4.18
Average: 3.31
I think its clear who has the better pen
0
"Expected era" is basically what their era should be which is based on bb/9, k/9 and groundball%. Forget actual eras, they are based on a small sample size of innings pitched in the bullpen. Hit% and Strand%'s throw off their actual eras.
All those boston guys with eras in the 2 actually have expeced eras in the 4's meaning that they are getting very fortunate.
"Expected era" is basically what their era should be which is based on bb/9, k/9 and groundball%. Forget actual eras, they are based on a small sample size of innings pitched in the bullpen. Hit% and Strand%'s throw off their actual eras.
All those boston guys with eras in the 2 actually have expeced eras in the 4's meaning that they are getting very fortunate.
Here are the expected era's:
Boston:
Bard: 2.8
Papelbon: 3.74
Okajima: 3.99
R. Ramirez: 4.47
Saito: 4.72
Delcarmen: 4.86
F. Cabrera (Projected): 4.84
Average: 4.20
Yanks:
Rivera: 2.08
Hughes: 2.28 (since reliever-only)
Robertson: 3.11
Aceves: 3.71
Bruney: 3.83
Gaudin: 3.97
Coke: 4.18
Average: 3.31
I think its clear who has the better pen
I guess it is fortunate that the Red Sox are "Lucky" when their bullpen is out there........Whether you are lucky or not as long as you get the outs then why the hell does it matter......I guess Dice-K last year would have had an expected era of like 8.48........
Why in the world would you add in Cabrera for the Red Sox and Gaudin for the Yanks ?? Gaudin has been a starter all year in the Padres Pitchers park......This shit is stupid
0
Quote Originally Posted by gcnmoo:
"Expected era" is basically what their era should be which is based on bb/9, k/9 and groundball%. Forget actual eras, they are based on a small sample size of innings pitched in the bullpen. Hit% and Strand%'s throw off their actual eras.
All those boston guys with eras in the 2 actually have expeced eras in the 4's meaning that they are getting very fortunate.
Here are the expected era's:
Boston:
Bard: 2.8
Papelbon: 3.74
Okajima: 3.99
R. Ramirez: 4.47
Saito: 4.72
Delcarmen: 4.86
F. Cabrera (Projected): 4.84
Average: 4.20
Yanks:
Rivera: 2.08
Hughes: 2.28 (since reliever-only)
Robertson: 3.11
Aceves: 3.71
Bruney: 3.83
Gaudin: 3.97
Coke: 4.18
Average: 3.31
I think its clear who has the better pen
I guess it is fortunate that the Red Sox are "Lucky" when their bullpen is out there........Whether you are lucky or not as long as you get the outs then why the hell does it matter......I guess Dice-K last year would have had an expected era of like 8.48........
Why in the world would you add in Cabrera for the Red Sox and Gaudin for the Yanks ?? Gaudin has been a starter all year in the Padres Pitchers park......This shit is stupid
As far as comparing the Yanks and Sox bullpens.. Earlier in the season = advantage Sox.. Since the addition of Filthy Hughes, advantage = Yanks.
Phil Coke's #s look bad because he has been rocked twice in the past month.. And I mean rocked, to the tune of like 5 or 6 runs each time. He is MUCH better than his ERA indicates . Robertson has been a pleasant surprise and Bruney is coming around again.
Plus the Yanks bullpen didn't blow a 10-0 lead in Baltimore this season
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As far as comparing the Yanks and Sox bullpens.. Earlier in the season = advantage Sox.. Since the addition of Filthy Hughes, advantage = Yanks.
Phil Coke's #s look bad because he has been rocked twice in the past month.. And I mean rocked, to the tune of like 5 or 6 runs each time. He is MUCH better than his ERA indicates . Robertson has been a pleasant surprise and Bruney is coming around again.
Plus the Yanks bullpen didn't blow a 10-0 lead in Baltimore this season
Each team has 7 man pens for the most part. The nice thing about expected era is that it is ballpark-neutral, so it does not matter that Gaudin pitches in petco. That is why era is overblown, it doesn't factor in those type of scenarios.
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Each team has 7 man pens for the most part. The nice thing about expected era is that it is ballpark-neutral, so it does not matter that Gaudin pitches in petco. That is why era is overblown, it doesn't factor in those type of scenarios.
Each team has 7 man pens for the most part. The nice thing about expected era is that it is ballpark-neutral, so it does not matter that Gaudin pitches in petco. That is why era is overblown, it doesn't factor in those type of scenarios.
I would think it does with the home run factor. How many feet shorter is the Yankees Stadium right field? And Petco doesn't have a "wind tunnel" affect. So most flies balls to Petco's right field are Yankee Stadium homers.
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Quote Originally Posted by gcnmoo:
Each team has 7 man pens for the most part. The nice thing about expected era is that it is ballpark-neutral, so it does not matter that Gaudin pitches in petco. That is why era is overblown, it doesn't factor in those type of scenarios.
I would think it does with the home run factor. How many feet shorter is the Yankees Stadium right field? And Petco doesn't have a "wind tunnel" affect. So most flies balls to Petco's right field are Yankee Stadium homers.
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