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Did anyone here think Oakland would be this bad?

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Posted: #26
Quote Originally Posted by davemsh:

Raiders clearly win the Mack trade....Raiders were not even picked to make the playoffs this season...Mack makes no difference..instead of being 8-8 with mack they will be 4-12...Smart move by Gruden...Next they need to dump Carr and go full rebuild....

Is Carr the issue here? Is he the guy who gets sacrificed when every other area of their team is garbage? Who are their receivers? How is the offensive line this year? Who do they have rushing the passer and how is their secondary? Carr isn’t the issue imo. In order to drive the Mercedes, you need 4 tires, an engine and some gas. I know because I own one Chief. The Raiders have none of the above. You know why a big reason Gruden came to Oakland aside from the money, right? He likes Carr a lot. Imo he is the only piece you build around. Give him some weapons who can catch and give him some protection. Also get a defense who can stop someone so that the Raiders aren’t always playing catch up. My two cents. What do I know though. 
 
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Posted: #27
Quote Originally Posted by Achilles1629:


“Clearly”? Oh boy. Lots of laughs today and this may be the biggest one I’ve had. I’m sure this was ready to be written once the bears lost yesterday, right? “Mack makes no difference”? Yeah....he hasn’t had an amazing season already. Bears top 3 in sacks this year. Mack doesn’t make an already good defense, great, huh? Ohhhh and a 4 game improvement which is what you think his worth is, that’s not good or anything. Ya know....doubling your win total which are your words. Let me ask you something and it’s a very serious question....IF the bears go 8-8 which again is your guess, where does that leave them in the draft? 16,17,18th pick? Let’s say they do this two seasons in a row.....you think the raiders “CLEARLY” won this trade?! Haaaaaaa. You and so many of the public look at the money given to Mack and you go nuts. Mack won’t see the entire amount of money. The deal essentially gives him 3 years at 20 a season and after the third year they can cut him. In return, the bears got a second rounder. You knew this though, right? Nobody can say who has won this trade until the raiders make those picks the bears gave them. Nobody can even start the assessment FOR the raiders until we know where the bears finish yet 5 games into the trade when it CLEARLY shows that at this point, the bears are leading in this trade, you want to make a statement that CLEARLY is inaccurate and you even go as far as contradict yourself stating the picks are everything when RIGHT NOW, the Bears are leading their division. Oh man. Good laughs on this. Not in the mood to go back and forth with you in that we did this in the NBA playoffs and it didn’t go well for one of us but I had to give some reality to the post I just read above. Lastly, if you lined up every GM in the NFL, and even threw Oakland’s in there, how many do you think would say the Raiders are “CLEARLY” winning this trade? The answer is less than 2 I bet. These guys prolly don’t know what they are talking about though, right? Still laughing here. 

I don't care how many sacks Mack has or how many strip sack fumbles he has etc...It will be about making the playoffs and going far...Their window to win is 2 years with Trubisky under his rookie deal...They are not even close to being a SB contention team with Mack...Giving up 2 1st round picks means you have to win now..  With GB and Rodgers and Minny in that division... mortgaging the future was risky and only time will tell...
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Posted: #28

Raiders O-line is auctually solid - Mr.Mack - that’s not where the problem is 

 
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Posted: #29

Dave greenbay is foos gold - Rodgers is all bang up - Minnesota is nothing special either - they look vulnerable this year

 
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Posted: #30

Even with Mack on raiders they were not contenders and I think that is why they trade him.  They saved money and got some drafts picks and Gruden will get to shape the team the way he wants to.  The timing  is perfect with them moving to Vegas.   They will draft a QB that can run outside the pocket and throw and trade Carr.

Mack and the bears couldn't even beat Miami with Brock as qb.

 
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Posted: #31
Quote Originally Posted by Ikid2groove035:

Dave greenbay is foos gold - Rodgers is all bang up - Minnesota is nothing special either - they look vulnerable this year


I could care less about that division...But as long as Rodgers stays healthy and plays...they will make the playoffs and win the division. He does it every year...Not sold on Trubisky to lead that team...He is no Wentz and you can scheme all you want for him but when it comes December/January football...Give me Rodgers and Counsins all day.
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Posted: #32

Gruden turn a journey men rich Gannon into MVP- just saying ... cool I laugh when people thinks the game pass him up? He was working at espn and talking 2 players/coaches all the time - Let’s see what happens in Vegas - not this season or the next 

 
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Posted: #33

Dave u think cousins is good?  Bears defense will destroy that softie - 

 
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Posted: #34

Quote Originally Posted by Ikid2groove035:

Dave how often does a guy like Mack come around ? Elite pass rusher are hard 2 find - Bears won with defense before - I totally understand that move -

 

You do know that the 2019 draft is LOADED with defensive players......Smart teams build through the draft...I'm just baffled that the Bears went after him and gave up so much for a team not expected to contend..

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Posted: #35
Quote Originally Posted by davemsh:


You don't trade away your future - 2 1st round picks unless its for a QB....In 2 years....This will go down as a horrible trade.....You could win with a game manager QB 15-20 years ago and a great defense...but not in this era..You need a good QB/Offense...to win you games...

Says who? Says the media? Jimmy G gets 27 million, Keenum gets 16 million, Bortles gets 15 million, these are qbs who are either injured or stink. But it’s ok because teams should be taking chances on the position? You look at the argument from your side only. You contradict yourself once again justvlike the NBA conversation we had a few months ago. Trust me....I remember it clearly. Who won the super bowl last year Chief? A backup and why? Folds = game manager? More so than Brady, right? The Eagles had a defense that made stops when it was needed most. Who lost that super bowl? Brady and if he had a pass rush they win that game. It’s pretty simple. You say you can win games with a game manager and I’m sure Bortles last year comes to mind for you but how is that game manager doing right now? He won last year because of that defense. That same defense this year just gave up 40 to the cowboys and look at that team now. Offense wins games, defense wins championships. The Raiders didn’t trade away their future. They traded away one piece that made little to no difference because of his supporting cast. The bears because of the supporting cast on defense felt Mack would put them over the edge. Aside from yesterday, it’s been a good move for the bears and with the young team they have, giving away two first round picks and picking up a second round pick in return isn’t going to kill them the way it would a team like the raiders if they made that same move. I can’t keep replying here; stuff to do. Good day....it’s been fun AGAIN.
 
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Posted: #36

Quote Originally Posted by smartass:

Even with Mack on raiders they were not contenders and I think that is why they trade him.  They saved money and got some drafts picks and Gruden will get to shape the team the way he wants to.  The timing  is perfect with them moving to Vegas.   They will draft a QB that can run outside the pocket and throw and trade Carr. Mack and the bears couldn't even beat Miami with Brock as qb.
miami would lose by 30 in Chicago GURANTEE - weather got the bears 

 
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Posted: #37
Quote Originally Posted by davemsh:

 

You do know that the 2019 draft is LOADED with defensive players......Smart teams build through the draft...I'm just baffled that the Bears went after him and gave up so much for a team not expected to contend..


Smart teams do build through the draft. The bears have done that with Cohen, Howard, parts of their o line. Eddie Jackson, Fuller, Floyd, Smith....smart teams also take risks in free agency on players they feel will give them the edge. If I truly have to convince you that the Bears jade the right love considering they don’t have to pay any big pieces big money in the next three years, I can’t help you. It was a smart move and so long as they stay under the cap which they have and will for the next three years, money is money. It may just where you decide to spend it. Jimmy G got 27 million unproven yet NOBODYtalks about that sign after he got hurt. Mack makes 20 million and has been a beast on the field and in the locker room. To make the blanket statement that unless you give up draft picks for a qb it’s crazy....that couldn’t be farther from the truth. My opinion though
 
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Posted: #38
Quote Originally Posted by Achilles1629:


Says who? Says the media? Jimmy G gets 27 million, Keenum gets 16 million, Bortles gets 15 million, these are qbs who are either injured or stink. But it’s ok because teams should be taking chances on the position? You look at the argument from your side only. You contradict yourself once again justvlike the NBA conversation we had a few months ago. Trust me....I remember it clearly. Who won the super bowl last year Chief? A backup and why? Folds = game manager? More so than Brady, right? The Eagles had a defense that made stops when it was needed most. Who lost that super bowl? Brady and if he had a pass rush they win that game. It’s pretty simple. You say you can win games with a game manager and I’m sure Bortles last year comes to mind for you but how is that game manager doing right now? He won last year because of that defense. That same defense this year just gave up 40 to the cowboys and look at that team now. Offense wins games, defense wins championships. The Raiders didn’t trade away their future. They traded away one piece that made little to no difference because of his supporting cast. The bears because of the supporting cast on defense felt Mack would put them over the edge. Aside from yesterday, it’s been a good move for the bears and with the young team they have, giving away two first round picks and picking up a second round pick in return isn’t going to kill them the way it would a team like the raiders if they made that same move. I can’t keep replying here; stuff to do. Good day....it’s been fun AGAIN.

We get it...you are from Chicago and are a Homer for all Chicago teams...You do realize Philly had home field advantage in the NFC and a 1st round bye and Wentz  led them to that great 10-1 start?  Please don't make that comparison......
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Posted: #39
Quote Originally Posted by acer00:

davemush keeps proving why he's the biggest joke on covers. Anyone who knows anything about the Raiders know they have had the worst scouting department in the past 20 years. They've drafted bust after bust after bust such as JaMarcus Russell, Darren McFadden, Darius Heyward Bey, Rolando McClain, Robert Gallery, Michael Huff, Fabian Washington just to name a few. Heck when they got 4 draft picks (2 #1 and 2 #2) after trading Jon Gruden, they drafted 4 busts! Anyone who says Raiders are better off with draft picks than a surefire Hall of Famer like Mack is a clueless MORON and that's davemush in a nutshell.

But I must say he's the best post game handicrapper, who's excellent at picking winners as soon as they go final.



The covers clown is back...
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Posted: #40

Acer didn’t you just got of PB? cool

Relax man - everyone has opinions - Deal will work out for both teams 

 
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Posted: #41
Quote Originally Posted by davemsh:


We get it...you are from Chicago and are a Homer for all Chicago teams...You do realize Philly had home field advantage in the NFC and a 1st round bye and Wentz  led them to that great 10-1 start?  Please don't make that comparison......

A homer? I hate the Cubs, the Sox stink even though they are my team, the Bulls are as dysfunctional a franchise as you will get, the Hawks have overpaid players and made awful trades and the Bears gave up how many picks for trubisky? I’m a homer though. No....maybe I just have some common sense rather than make the statements you do. As for the Eagles talk? Haaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!! Now you are devaluing what Foles did down the stretch to get that home field and you are devaluing his play in the playoffs and in the SUPERBOWL against the Patriots and the greatest QB ever. I can’t do this any more. TOO EASY HERE. Yeah Wentz won the Eagles that super bowl. I’ve now pointed out three big points that you contradict yourself on yet it doesn’t clock up there? Your brain ever think that my points just contradict your statements? You NEVER take any ownership in your statements when shown that all you do is contradict yourself. You did it in the NBA playoffs and you do it now. I’m running out of underwear! I can’t stop laughing but I got lured into the pits of “wtf” am I reading again. That’s the big issue here; my bad. Ok I give up. You win. Done and done. Haaaaaaa
 
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Posted: #42

The fact is that Lucky Sperm Club Marky D. didn't have 90+ large to place in escrow to keep Mack.  After buying Gruden and the agreement to get the stadium in Vegas, LSC Marky is on a short financial leash until he gets more cash from the next installment of the TV deal.  Look up current ratio.  That Stadium deal requires it to stay high - otherwise he loses equity points to the taxpayers.  

 
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Posted: #43
Quote Originally Posted by Achilles1629:


“Clearly”? Oh boy. Lots of laughs today and this may be the biggest one I’ve had. I’m sure this was ready to be written once the bears lost yesterday, right? “Mack makes no difference”? Yeah....he hasn’t had an amazing season already. Bears top 3 in sacks this year. Mack doesn’t make an already good defense, great, huh? Ohhhh and a 4 game improvement which is what you think his worth is, that’s not good or anything. Ya know....doubling your win total which are your words. Let me ask you something and it’s a very serious question....IF the bears go 8-8 which again is your guess, where does that leave them in the draft? 16,17,18th pick? Let’s say they do this two seasons in a row.....you think the raiders “CLEARLY” won this trade?! Haaaaaaa. You and so many of the public look at the money given to Mack and you go nuts. Mack won’t see the entire amount of money. The deal essentially gives him 3 years at 20 a season and after the third year they can cut him. In return, the bears got a second rounder. You knew this though, right? Nobody can say who has won this trade until the raiders make those picks the bears gave them. Nobody can even start the assessment FOR the raiders until we know where the bears finish yet 5 games into the trade when it CLEARLY shows that at this point, the bears are leading in this trade, you want to make a statement that CLEARLY is inaccurate and you even go as far as contradict yourself stating the picks are everything when RIGHT NOW, the Bears are leading their division. Oh man. Good laughs on this. Not in the mood to go back and forth with you in that we did this in the NBA playoffs and it didn’t go well for one of us but I had to give some reality to the post I just read above. Lastly, if you lined up every GM in the NFL, and even threw Oakland’s in there, how many do you think would say the Raiders are “CLEARLY” winning this trade? The answer is less than 2 I bet. These guys prolly don’t know what they are talking about though, right? Still laughing here. 

 Mack was the Raiders best player on the field, the leader inside the locker room and a role model outside of it. The Raiders shipped a HOF without even picking up the phone. Pathetic. Those two 1st  picks will be hard to replace. 
 
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Posted: #44
Quote Originally Posted by davemsh:

Tank this year....trade Carr in the offseason for a 1st and 3rd....Rebuild the Defense.....Draft TUA in 2020 before they move to Vegas...

Raiders would be very lucky just to get a quality 2nd rounder for him. Not only have his injuries totally changed his QB style, but he'll also be due a new contract.
 
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Posted: #45

Quote Originally Posted by SURFSUP:

Quote Originally Posted by Achilles1629:

“Clearly”? Oh boy. Lots of laughs today and this may be the biggest one I’ve had. I’m sure this was ready to be written once the bears lost yesterday, right? “Mack makes no difference”? Yeah....he hasn’t had an amazing season already. Bears top 3 in sacks this year. Mack doesn’t make an already good defense, great, huh? Ohhhh and a 4 game improvement which is what you think his worth is, that’s not good or anything. Ya know....doubling your win total which are your words. Let me ask you something and it’s a very serious question....IF the bears go 8-8 which again is your guess, where does that leave them in the draft? 16,17,18th pick? Let’s say they do this two seasons in a row.....you think the raiders “CLEARLY” won this trade?! Haaaaaaa. You and so many of the public look at the money given to Mack and you go nuts. Mack won’t see the entire amount of money. The deal essentially gives him 3 years at 20 a season and after the third year they can cut him. In return, the bears got a second rounder. You knew this though, right? Nobody can say who has won this trade until the raiders make those picks the bears gave them. Nobody can even start the assessment FOR the raiders until we know where the bears finish yet 5 games into the trade when it CLEARLY shows that at this point, the bears are leading in this trade, you want to make a statement that CLEARLY is inaccurate and you even go as far as contradict yourself stating the picks are everything when RIGHT NOW, the Bears are leading their division. Oh man. Good laughs on this. Not in the mood to go back and forth with you in that we did this in the NBA playoffs and it didn’t go well for one of us but I had to give some reality to the post I just read above. Lastly, if you lined up every GM in the NFL, and even threw Oakland’s in there, how many do you think would say the Raiders are “CLEARLY” winning this trade? The answer is less than 2 I bet. These guys prolly don’t know what they are talking about though, right? Still laughing here. 
 Mack was the Raiders best player on the field, the leader inside the locker room and a role model outside of it. The Raiders shipped a HOF without even picking up the phone. Pathetic. Those two 1st  picks will be hard to replace.

Well said. When he was traded just before the season started the wind came out of most of the players sails. They were in shock. You can tell by their actions on the field. Two middle of the 1st round picks for Mack isn't nearly enough and they gave a 2nd rounder back to Chicago. Why sign Jordy Nelson and keep the Beast if your in rebuilding mode?

 

You learn more from losing than winning. You learn how to keep going.
 
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Posted: #46

Quote Originally Posted by Digitalkarma:

thought they would be 8-8 or 7-9 but not 1-5 lol... at this rate they'll probably finish no better than 4-12.
  How about 1-15?  They should be 0-6 now if the refs did not steal a game from Browns.  They just don't seem to care.  Players, coaches, and training staff are showing up to collect paychecks.  Browns were at least trying in the last few years.  These Raiders simply are not in games.

 
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Posted: #47
Quote Originally Posted by thehuntman:

 Mack was the Raiders best player on the field, the leader inside the locker room and a role model outside of it. The Raiders shipped a HOF without even picking up the phone. Pathetic. Those two 1st  picks will be hard to replace.

Well said. When he was traded just before the season started the wind came out of most of the players sails. They were in shock. You can tell by their actions on the field. Two middle of the 1st round picks for Mack isn't nearly enough and they gave a 2nd rounder back to Chicago. Why sign Jordy Nelson and keep the Beast if your in rebuilding mode?

 


You are missing the point...Gruden clearly did not think the Roster he inherited can win or contend for a SB...Jordy Nelson/Beast are on short term contracts that can be cut after the season...Keeping Mack does nothing for the Raiders...They may win a few more games if any but does not make them SB contenders...Why pay Mack all that money to be an 8-8 team if Gruden wants to Rebuild.  Mack wanted to be the highest paid defense player...Gruden will be judged his 1st year in Vegas...
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Posted: #48
They trying to trade Amari too...
 
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Posted: #49

I enjoyed reading this thread...I learned so much. an_light

 
 
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Posted: #50

Guys don’t understand what rebuilding is - worst thing in the NFL is teams with 5/6/7/8 wins 

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