If you had no read on player on button who called your all in (or other players for that matter) then going all in was very risky in early position & it proved evident because you did get called. You haven't answered my question on wether you had a good read on any of those players i'm asking because i think this was crucial in making a decision for all your chips OOP.
Also You can't assume all players will call reason why you have to test the waters with a raise. All players don't play the same way, some may call due to pot odds and some may be tight and opt to lay down mediocre hand after a big raise. I could be wrong but it seems evident you had no real read on the player on the button who called your all in with a disgusting hand, he obviously was a very loose player making that sort of call with 4's in the hole and you may have failed to spot this.
I was chatting with a few of my friends about this hand, these doods have some serious bankrolls playing poker on line and live and they pretty much said you butchered the hand. They also said AQ isn't as strong as you may think let alone a hand you go all in with especially on SB.
Patience was the key and making the right decision at the right time is poker in essence. I don't really know why you really felt the need to push just to pick up like $1750 pot (including your 300 had you just called). The reward wasn't all that great to begin with!!
Go post on fullcontactpoker
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If you had no read on player on button who called your all in (or other players for that matter) then going all in was very risky in early position & it proved evident because you did get called. You haven't answered my question on wether you had a good read on any of those players i'm asking because i think this was crucial in making a decision for all your chips OOP.
Also You can't assume all players will call reason why you have to test the waters with a raise. All players don't play the same way, some may call due to pot odds and some may be tight and opt to lay down mediocre hand after a big raise. I could be wrong but it seems evident you had no real read on the player on the button who called your all in with a disgusting hand, he obviously was a very loose player making that sort of call with 4's in the hole and you may have failed to spot this.
I was chatting with a few of my friends about this hand, these doods have some serious bankrolls playing poker on line and live and they pretty much said you butchered the hand. They also said AQ isn't as strong as you may think let alone a hand you go all in with especially on SB.
Patience was the key and making the right decision at the right time is poker in essence. I don't really know why you really felt the need to push just to pick up like $1750 pot (including your 300 had you just called). The reward wasn't all that great to begin with!!
what if u cant fucking limp there. what if it comes q high on the flop. then u have no idea if 4 other guys flopped 2 pair. i see no prob going all in there either. the point im making is if you decide to put your whole stach in u as well make a raise then do it on the flop. u dont have to hit the flop the bet will get a lot of hands to fold there.
obviously you didn't comprehend what i said ghost! and in turn i don't think anybody will ever comprehend anything you ever say
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Quote Originally Posted by ghostmanon3rd:
what if u cant fucking limp there. what if it comes q high on the flop. then u have no idea if 4 other guys flopped 2 pair. i see no prob going all in there either. the point im making is if you decide to put your whole stach in u as well make a raise then do it on the flop. u dont have to hit the flop the bet will get a lot of hands to fold there.
obviously you didn't comprehend what i said ghost! and in turn i don't think anybody will ever comprehend anything you ever say
Go post on fullcontactpoker, it's daniel negreanu's site. Post this hand in their forum and people there will give you every angle possible on this hand. There are some pretty knowledgeable people on that site, not to say covers doesn't but that site's whole members are poker crazy geeks.
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i was meant to say:
Go post on fullcontactpoker, it's daniel negreanu's site. Post this hand in their forum and people there will give you every angle possible on this hand. There are some pretty knowledgeable people on that site, not to say covers doesn't but that site's whole members are poker crazy geeks.
I know what you guys are saying and 90% of the time I play like that. Its not as if that situation happens im going to go AI everytime. I just thought it would be a diff play, which I thought wasnt bad. I needed to mix it up a little, and I had a hand that if someone called was pretty good. I just didnt want to go to a flop with 3-4 people. At that point, 1300 is probably the same as limping as virtually everyone will call...at least 2 others would for sure..potentially 3.
I think this is a hand you could play many ways. I hate being OOP with good hands..and my read was right that obv no one had anything they should call with. Some clown does and I brick the way...but Id probably play it the same again in that exact spot. However, normally I wont play it like that and probably make it 1.5k and see a flop..
this is really the only place i disagree if you get called youre racing at best and probably completely dominated. i dont see aj calling you there EVER.
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Quote Originally Posted by CrusCrnshw:
$50 buy in.
I know what you guys are saying and 90% of the time I play like that. Its not as if that situation happens im going to go AI everytime. I just thought it would be a diff play, which I thought wasnt bad. I needed to mix it up a little, and I had a hand that if someone called was pretty good. I just didnt want to go to a flop with 3-4 people. At that point, 1300 is probably the same as limping as virtually everyone will call...at least 2 others would for sure..potentially 3.
I think this is a hand you could play many ways. I hate being OOP with good hands..and my read was right that obv no one had anything they should call with. Some clown does and I brick the way...but Id probably play it the same again in that exact spot. However, normally I wont play it like that and probably make it 1.5k and see a flop..
this is really the only place i disagree if you get called youre racing at best and probably completely dominated. i dont see aj calling you there EVER.
I had a decent read on the table at the time and it was tight. No one was really making any big raises, or the like. I understand what you mean hey 1500 in the pot, but AQ suited is a pretty strong hand. Like I said its not a move i will usually make, but I decided to switch it up because I was in the SB.
I just bottom line figured no one would call. or should call. I guess someone just wanted to play like a bum and call with 44, but the table hadnt been playing like that for the 30ish mins I was there for.
What can you do...chalk it up and learn
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I had a decent read on the table at the time and it was tight. No one was really making any big raises, or the like. I understand what you mean hey 1500 in the pot, but AQ suited is a pretty strong hand. Like I said its not a move i will usually make, but I decided to switch it up because I was in the SB.
I just bottom line figured no one would call. or should call. I guess someone just wanted to play like a bum and call with 44, but the table hadnt been playing like that for the 30ish mins I was there for.
never going broke with a queen in your hand is the dumbest thing i have ever heard. of coures sometimes qq is foldable preflop but more often then not you are going to be going to the mattresses with it. hell if youre the big blind late in the tournament and the small blind puts you in and you have aq youre gonna fold?
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never going broke with a queen in your hand is the dumbest thing i have ever heard. of coures sometimes qq is foldable preflop but more often then not you are going to be going to the mattresses with it. hell if youre the big blind late in the tournament and the small blind puts you in and you have aq youre gonna fold?
never going broke with a queen in your hand is the dumbest thing i have ever heard. of coures sometimes qq is foldable preflop but more often then not you are going to be going to the mattresses with it. hell if youre the big blind late in the tournament and the small blind puts you in and you have aq youre gonna fold?
Doyle Brunson said this, do you think he is dumb? Why don't you write your own book Clown? I think he could have better said don't go broke with AQ or KQ, two trouble hands that are overplayed by many. I have seen Doyle fold AQ at times, also hands like 44. Anyways his point is that AQ will lose to AK or big pockets too much. And KQ same thing. And QQ, what do you do when an ace hits the flop. By the way, Doyle made the best laydown I have seen, QQ on a flop of J 2 x, he made it like 300K, Chip Reese min raised to $600K, Doyle chucked it, said he had QQ, noone could belive it at the table, excpet TJ Cloutier said that Doyle could have laid down QQ if he knew he was beat. So Clown I guess you couldn't lay it down right?
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Quote Originally Posted by clowninmyside:
never going broke with a queen in your hand is the dumbest thing i have ever heard. of coures sometimes qq is foldable preflop but more often then not you are going to be going to the mattresses with it. hell if youre the big blind late in the tournament and the small blind puts you in and you have aq youre gonna fold?
Doyle Brunson said this, do you think he is dumb? Why don't you write your own book Clown? I think he could have better said don't go broke with AQ or KQ, two trouble hands that are overplayed by many. I have seen Doyle fold AQ at times, also hands like 44. Anyways his point is that AQ will lose to AK or big pockets too much. And KQ same thing. And QQ, what do you do when an ace hits the flop. By the way, Doyle made the best laydown I have seen, QQ on a flop of J 2 x, he made it like 300K, Chip Reese min raised to $600K, Doyle chucked it, said he had QQ, noone could belive it at the table, excpet TJ Cloutier said that Doyle could have laid down QQ if he knew he was beat. So Clown I guess you couldn't lay it down right?
Doyle was trying to say that Aq and KQ are some of the most overplayed hands in poker. Doyle said "never" but even Doyle knows you can never say "never" about anything in poker. He was just tryin to make a point and clown youre taking it too literally
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Doyle was trying to say that Aq and KQ are some of the most overplayed hands in poker. Doyle said "never" but even Doyle knows you can never say "never" about anything in poker. He was just tryin to make a point and clown youre taking it too literally
well you can never say never in poker, as each situation is different. Sometimes you have to make a sick call with 3rd pair, and it turns out the guy was bluffing. So if you say "never call with 3rd pair" sometimes maybe you should.
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well you can never say never in poker, as each situation is different. Sometimes you have to make a sick call with 3rd pair, and it turns out the guy was bluffing. So if you say "never call with 3rd pair" sometimes maybe you should.
well you can never say never in poker, as each situation is different. Sometimes you have to make a sick call with 3rd pair, and it turns out the guy was bluffing. So if you say "never call with 3rd pair" sometimes maybe you should.
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Quote Originally Posted by Godfather16:
well you can never say never in poker, as each situation is different. Sometimes you have to make a sick call with 3rd pair, and it turns out the guy was bluffing. So if you say "never call with 3rd pair" sometimes maybe you should.
Doyle was trying to say that Aq and KQ are some of the most overplayed hands in poker. Doyle said "never" but even Doyle knows you can never say "never" about anything in poker. He was just tryin to make a point and clown youre taking it too literally
yup, he didn't mean it in a literal sense more a general statement for his life experiences with being beat in hands holding a "Q" in his hand.
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Quote Originally Posted by ChanceP:
Doyle was trying to say that Aq and KQ are some of the most overplayed hands in poker. Doyle said "never" but even Doyle knows you can never say "never" about anything in poker. He was just tryin to make a point and clown youre taking it too literally
yup, he didn't mean it in a literal sense more a general statement for his life experiences with being beat in hands holding a "Q" in his hand.
I had a decent read on the table at the time and it was tight. No one was really making any big raises, or the like. I understand what you mean hey 1500 in the pot, but AQ suited is a pretty strong hand. Like I said its not a move i will usually make, but I decided to switch it up because I was in the SB.
I just bottom line figured no one would call. or should call. I guess someone just wanted to play like a bum and call with 44, but the table hadnt been playing like that for the 30ish mins I was there for.
What can you do...chalk it up and learn
Would you get it all in with AQ if there was a raise and a re-raise for all your chips?
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Quote Originally Posted by CrusCrnshw:
I had a decent read on the table at the time and it was tight. No one was really making any big raises, or the like. I understand what you mean hey 1500 in the pot, but AQ suited is a pretty strong hand. Like I said its not a move i will usually make, but I decided to switch it up because I was in the SB.
I just bottom line figured no one would call. or should call. I guess someone just wanted to play like a bum and call with 44, but the table hadnt been playing like that for the 30ish mins I was there for.
What can you do...chalk it up and learn
Would you get it all in with AQ if there was a raise and a re-raise for all your chips?
How are you doing my friend? Before I begin, I must let you know that I know nothing about tournament poker. I have no idea if your play was good/bad/average or horrible and don't want to fathem to guess. However, one point that we have discussed in the past has reared its head once again.
"know what you guys are saying and 90% of the time I play like that. Its not as if that situation happens im going to go AI everytime. I just thought it would be a diff play, which I thought wasnt bad. I needed to mix it up a little, and I had a hand that if someone called was pretty good."
Many will disagree with me on this point but so be it! You are playing online poker with 100,000 of different people. Many players are playing numerous tables (atleast the good one's) and they don't have time to make precise reads on betting paterns. They are categorizing you generally as tight/loose and that is about it. Why do you need to change up your play? Who are you fooling? How many hands have you actually shown at the table? Most people think they need to change up there play to often. Unless you are playing against the same guys on a daily basis then you do not need to change up your play that often! reread!
Remember when we discussed semi bluffing when you were in Vegas? No need to do it! Most of these players are to concerned about what they hold; and probably have very little little idea (if any) idea what you hold. I suggest, you stick to your tight aggressive game. Deal with the occassional suck outs and get your money in good more often then not. If you played your standard game (which I believe no one at the table knows) you are still in the tournament with plenty of chips. You will have a better spot to get your money in down the road.
When are we going to get a covers game on Full Tilt? I would love to play a little no limit against the forrum. The chat box would be extremely entertaining.
All the best,
ME
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Crucrnshw,
How are you doing my friend? Before I begin, I must let you know that I know nothing about tournament poker. I have no idea if your play was good/bad/average or horrible and don't want to fathem to guess. However, one point that we have discussed in the past has reared its head once again.
"know what you guys are saying and 90% of the time I play like that. Its not as if that situation happens im going to go AI everytime. I just thought it would be a diff play, which I thought wasnt bad. I needed to mix it up a little, and I had a hand that if someone called was pretty good."
Many will disagree with me on this point but so be it! You are playing online poker with 100,000 of different people. Many players are playing numerous tables (atleast the good one's) and they don't have time to make precise reads on betting paterns. They are categorizing you generally as tight/loose and that is about it. Why do you need to change up your play? Who are you fooling? How many hands have you actually shown at the table? Most people think they need to change up there play to often. Unless you are playing against the same guys on a daily basis then you do not need to change up your play that often! reread!
Remember when we discussed semi bluffing when you were in Vegas? No need to do it! Most of these players are to concerned about what they hold; and probably have very little little idea (if any) idea what you hold. I suggest, you stick to your tight aggressive game. Deal with the occassional suck outs and get your money in good more often then not. If you played your standard game (which I believe no one at the table knows) you are still in the tournament with plenty of chips. You will have a better spot to get your money in down the road.
When are we going to get a covers game on Full Tilt? I would love to play a little no limit against the forrum. The chat box would be extremely entertaining.
kinda similar situation here where AQ was in early position and 44 was held by a guy whom he thought was tight. Only diff is he opted to raise just below 4xBB instead of pushing it all in.
This was a cooler though where as yours was more of a gamble.
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I was just going through some poker sites and found this article on a player who was dealt AQ vs 44:
kinda similar situation here where AQ was in early position and 44 was held by a guy whom he thought was tight. Only diff is he opted to raise just below 4xBB instead of pushing it all in.
This was a cooler though where as yours was more of a gamble.
And then funnily enough i was playing online tourny last night and got into a cooler situation myself with non other than the infamous AQ and in early position. It was down to the final 105 players out of a field of 1400 players, blinds were 200/400 & i have only about 7k in chips.
I have AQ UTG and decide to raise just over 4XBB to 1700 total.
I get 4 callers lol.
Flop: 8Q6os
I check, 3 after me check and the 4th player bets out about 2k in almost a 7k pot. I thought my trap worked here and if i was to call 2k on the flop which would be almost half my stack that i was pretty much committed all the way anyway so i pushed it all in and the 3 other players folded.
Showdown : AQ and he shows pocket 8's lol.
There really wasn't much i could do here as i flopped top pair with Ace kicker.
moral of the story and this thread is ultimately AQ is not a vey strong hand as most would think. I would raise with AQ absolutely and if the flop doesn't help and there was a bet i'd fold 'em, would i call a tight player with AQ if he raised? i probably wouldn't. Nor would i ever call a re-raise after a raise with AQ that would be suicide and i often play the gap concept.
here's another article on AQ
https://www.cardplayer.com/magazine/article/12287
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And then funnily enough i was playing online tourny last night and got into a cooler situation myself with non other than the infamous AQ and in early position. It was down to the final 105 players out of a field of 1400 players, blinds were 200/400 & i have only about 7k in chips.
I have AQ UTG and decide to raise just over 4XBB to 1700 total.
I get 4 callers lol.
Flop: 8Q6os
I check, 3 after me check and the 4th player bets out about 2k in almost a 7k pot. I thought my trap worked here and if i was to call 2k on the flop which would be almost half my stack that i was pretty much committed all the way anyway so i pushed it all in and the 3 other players folded.
Showdown : AQ and he shows pocket 8's lol.
There really wasn't much i could do here as i flopped top pair with Ace kicker.
moral of the story and this thread is ultimately AQ is not a vey strong hand as most would think. I would raise with AQ absolutely and if the flop doesn't help and there was a bet i'd fold 'em, would i call a tight player with AQ if he raised? i probably wouldn't. Nor would i ever call a re-raise after a raise with AQ that would be suicide and i often play the gap concept.
ME, great to hear from you. I like what you had to say. Hope all is well and thanks
3ball..diff with your hand was that you were UTG...id have done the same thing there. My SB all in was with the ability having seen everyone at the tables hands if you will, except for the BB. None the less same result...what can you do.
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ME, great to hear from you. I like what you had to say. Hope all is well and thanks
3ball..diff with your hand was that you were UTG...id have done the same thing there. My SB all in was with the ability having seen everyone at the tables hands if you will, except for the BB. None the less same result...what can you do.
Let us look at your play, basically you are squeezing to win approximately 10% of your stack. What is your table image up to that point? Are you stealing? Have you been caught stealing? If you had a tight image and had shown down premium hands, I do not have any problems with this play.
If you sensed weakness and shoved, then you are up against a bb random hand. I like your chances but before I bless your play, the limp, limp, limp smacks of squeeze set up. Either the second or third limper could have a monster and is just inviting you to get buried with the A,Q. However, my question is why does the bb call? Has he seen you get away with making moves? Or is he a complete donk?
I like the aggressive move, but like everything in poker it is situational. I don't know what I would have done. Another alternative is a 3 to 4 thousand raise, this raise in my opinion would have shown more strength then the all in raise. If you get a caller, you know you are way behind. You are then out of position, your options are a continuation bet, or stop and go shove, or orphan the pot. I dont think you mentioned what the flop brought. If you raise big in that position, I do not think the bb calls but I would be more concerned about the 3 limpers. Any over card that falls is gonna foldl the bb assuming he calls a 3 g raise. If you get played back at preflop ,fold but at least your investing 3gs to win 1450 and not your whole stack. Just my thoughts, if you hit your A or Q against 4,4 you have plenty of chips to go crazy with. Good luck bro, take the next one down.
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Let us look at your play, basically you are squeezing to win approximately 10% of your stack. What is your table image up to that point? Are you stealing? Have you been caught stealing? If you had a tight image and had shown down premium hands, I do not have any problems with this play.
If you sensed weakness and shoved, then you are up against a bb random hand. I like your chances but before I bless your play, the limp, limp, limp smacks of squeeze set up. Either the second or third limper could have a monster and is just inviting you to get buried with the A,Q. However, my question is why does the bb call? Has he seen you get away with making moves? Or is he a complete donk?
I like the aggressive move, but like everything in poker it is situational. I don't know what I would have done. Another alternative is a 3 to 4 thousand raise, this raise in my opinion would have shown more strength then the all in raise. If you get a caller, you know you are way behind. You are then out of position, your options are a continuation bet, or stop and go shove, or orphan the pot. I dont think you mentioned what the flop brought. If you raise big in that position, I do not think the bb calls but I would be more concerned about the 3 limpers. Any over card that falls is gonna foldl the bb assuming he calls a 3 g raise. If you get played back at preflop ,fold but at least your investing 3gs to win 1450 and not your whole stack. Just my thoughts, if you hit your A or Q against 4,4 you have plenty of chips to go crazy with. Good luck bro, take the next one down.
yeah good thing with flopping Q with a hand like AQ is i have an Ace kicker rather than flopping an Ace with a Q kicker and beat with AK so it would seem like a pretty good flop. Unless player who flopped a set bet out pot or close to it then i would have had to go into the think tank and think of folding but he trapped me pretty good with a weak bet disguising his hand well.
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Quote Originally Posted by Godfather16:
3ball, tough to get away from the hand.
yeah good thing with flopping Q with a hand like AQ is i have an Ace kicker rather than flopping an Ace with a Q kicker and beat with AK so it would seem like a pretty good flop. Unless player who flopped a set bet out pot or close to it then i would have had to go into the think tank and think of folding but he trapped me pretty good with a weak bet disguising his hand well.
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