And as far as dangerous viruses... they occur way more frequently then u might think..basically every 3-5 years....so covid wasn't very unique 2002- west nile 2004- SARS 2009- swine flu h1n1 2014- Ebola 2016- zika (deformed babies) 2019- covid
To be fair -- Covid was very transmissible. MERS may have been more fatal but was harder to spread.
0
@dubz4dummyz
Quote Originally Posted by dubz4dummyz:
And as far as dangerous viruses... they occur way more frequently then u might think..basically every 3-5 years....so covid wasn't very unique 2002- west nile 2004- SARS 2009- swine flu h1n1 2014- Ebola 2016- zika (deformed babies) 2019- covid
To be fair -- Covid was very transmissible. MERS may have been more fatal but was harder to spread.
@dubz4dummyz Quote Originally Posted by dubz4dummyz: @kcblitzkrieg Curious as to why the markets have stayed so strong? Are they still propped by the massive fed injection from covid-shutdown? Has the FED been injecting money still to this day or did they cut it off?? Or has it become such a rich-mans game the rich realize to keep investing in it to basically achieve full control of how the market fluctuates? It is very relative. One way a guy explained it in order to oversimplify it is this way: Democrats are screaming that the stock market is at a record high and unemployment is low. So think about it a little bit. Dramatic inflation raises all prices as the value of our currency is crushed. Stock prices are in dollars, just like loaves of bread and a gallon of gas or heating oil. All prices are being inflated: Rent, fuel, food and stocks. As people's income doesn't keep up with inflation, many are forced to take additional jobs or even come out of retirement to desperately try to survive. That's nothing to brag about at all.
Yessir, wasn't sure it was that simple. But makes sense
0
Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:
@dubz4dummyz Quote Originally Posted by dubz4dummyz: @kcblitzkrieg Curious as to why the markets have stayed so strong? Are they still propped by the massive fed injection from covid-shutdown? Has the FED been injecting money still to this day or did they cut it off?? Or has it become such a rich-mans game the rich realize to keep investing in it to basically achieve full control of how the market fluctuates? It is very relative. One way a guy explained it in order to oversimplify it is this way: Democrats are screaming that the stock market is at a record high and unemployment is low. So think about it a little bit. Dramatic inflation raises all prices as the value of our currency is crushed. Stock prices are in dollars, just like loaves of bread and a gallon of gas or heating oil. All prices are being inflated: Rent, fuel, food and stocks. As people's income doesn't keep up with inflation, many are forced to take additional jobs or even come out of retirement to desperately try to survive. That's nothing to brag about at all.
Yessir, wasn't sure it was that simple. But makes sense
Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22: @dubz4dummyz Quote Originally Posted by dubz4dummyz: @kcblitzkrieg Curious as to why the markets have stayed so strong? Are they still propped by the massive fed injection from covid-shutdown? Has the FED been injecting money still to this day or did they cut it off?? Or has it become such a rich-mans game the rich realize to keep investing in it to basically achieve full control of how the market fluctuates? It is very relative. One way a guy explained it in order to oversimplify it is this way: Democrats are screaming that the stock market is at a record high and unemployment is low. So think about it a little bit. Dramatic inflation raises all prices as the value of our currency is crushed. Stock prices are in dollars, just like loaves of bread and a gallon of gas or heating oil. All prices are being inflated: Rent, fuel, food and stocks. As people's income doesn't keep up with inflation, many are forced to take additional jobs or even come out of retirement to desperately try to survive. That's nothing to brag about at all. Yessir, wasn't sure it was that simple. But makes sense
It isn't that simple. But that is the gist of it.
Somewhere else on here I explained the relative growth percentage -- for example under Trump and, currently, under Biden with the markets.
0
@dubz4dummyz
Quote Originally Posted by dubz4dummyz:
Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22: @dubz4dummyz Quote Originally Posted by dubz4dummyz: @kcblitzkrieg Curious as to why the markets have stayed so strong? Are they still propped by the massive fed injection from covid-shutdown? Has the FED been injecting money still to this day or did they cut it off?? Or has it become such a rich-mans game the rich realize to keep investing in it to basically achieve full control of how the market fluctuates? It is very relative. One way a guy explained it in order to oversimplify it is this way: Democrats are screaming that the stock market is at a record high and unemployment is low. So think about it a little bit. Dramatic inflation raises all prices as the value of our currency is crushed. Stock prices are in dollars, just like loaves of bread and a gallon of gas or heating oil. All prices are being inflated: Rent, fuel, food and stocks. As people's income doesn't keep up with inflation, many are forced to take additional jobs or even come out of retirement to desperately try to survive. That's nothing to brag about at all. Yessir, wasn't sure it was that simple. But makes sense
It isn't that simple. But that is the gist of it.
Somewhere else on here I explained the relative growth percentage -- for example under Trump and, currently, under Biden with the markets.
So, let's see what has happened to stocks over the first three years of the Biden presidency -- i.e, through the end of January 2024.
Over that period, the price level has risen by about 18%. The real (inflation-adjusted) rate of return in the S&P 500 after three years of Biden is thus only 8%. This is fairly anemic and well below the average annual real rate of return since the New York Stock Exchange opened its doors, which is a three-year average of more than 20%.
Biden's performance is also much worse than the bull market under Donald Trump. The S&P was up 36% in real terms at this time of Trump's presidency, or more than four times better.
2
@dubz4dummyz
This was the bottomline about that:
So, let's see what has happened to stocks over the first three years of the Biden presidency -- i.e, through the end of January 2024.
Over that period, the price level has risen by about 18%. The real (inflation-adjusted) rate of return in the S&P 500 after three years of Biden is thus only 8%. This is fairly anemic and well below the average annual real rate of return since the New York Stock Exchange opened its doors, which is a three-year average of more than 20%.
Biden's performance is also much worse than the bull market under Donald Trump. The S&P was up 36% in real terms at this time of Trump's presidency, or more than four times better.
@dubz4dummyz This was the bottomline about that: So, let's see what has happened to stocks over the first three years of the Biden presidency -- i.e, through the end of January 2024. Over that period, the price level has risen by about 18%. The real (inflation-adjusted) rate of return in the S&P 500 after three years of Biden is thus only 8%. This is fairly anemic and well below the average annual real rate of return since the New York Stock Exchange opened its doors, which is a three-year average of more than 20%. Biden's performance is also much worse than the bull market under Donald Trump. The S&P was up 36% in real terms at this time of Trump's presidency, or more than four times better.
but wall says presidents don’t have anything to do with stock market so who cares, I mean I know there are like 52 threads in here with 60,000+ posts by the same 3-4 people but who cares
Freedom road was a one-way street
2
Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:
@dubz4dummyz This was the bottomline about that: So, let's see what has happened to stocks over the first three years of the Biden presidency -- i.e, through the end of January 2024. Over that period, the price level has risen by about 18%. The real (inflation-adjusted) rate of return in the S&P 500 after three years of Biden is thus only 8%. This is fairly anemic and well below the average annual real rate of return since the New York Stock Exchange opened its doors, which is a three-year average of more than 20%. Biden's performance is also much worse than the bull market under Donald Trump. The S&P was up 36% in real terms at this time of Trump's presidency, or more than four times better.
but wall says presidents don’t have anything to do with stock market so who cares, I mean I know there are like 52 threads in here with 60,000+ posts by the same 3-4 people but who cares
Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22: @dubz4dummyz This was the bottomline about that: So, let's see what has happened to stocks over the first three years of the Biden presidency -- i.e, through the end of January 2024. Over that period, the price level has risen by about 18%. The real (inflation-adjusted) rate of return in the S&P 500 after three years of Biden is thus only 8%. This is fairly anemic and well below the average annual real rate of return since the New York Stock Exchange opened its doors, which is a three-year average of more than 20%. Biden's performance is also much worse than the bull market under Donald Trump. The S&P was up 36% in real terms at this time of Trump's presidency, or more than four times better. but wall says presidents don’t have anything to do with stock market so who cares, I mean I know there are like 52 threads in here with 60,000+ posts by the same 3-4 people but who cares
If you remove all other factors and just go by history, the markets reaction to a Democratic President and a split Congress is the best scenario for returns at 13.6%.
The worst by far is a Republican President with a Democratic Congress at 4.9%.
The other four scenarios are at various levels in between.
So, in a sense they absolutely have to work together. But, by and large, a Republican Congress will produce better returns no matter the President.
The point can be made that a Republican Congress will work better for the markets than a Democratic Congress. So, from that perspective the President will not have as much control.
But, again, this is very dynamic and many factors come into play -- these are just longterm averages. Each administration will have various issues to deal with and the priorities may not have much to do with the markets at the time.
2
Quote Originally Posted by philschnaars:
Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22: @dubz4dummyz This was the bottomline about that: So, let's see what has happened to stocks over the first three years of the Biden presidency -- i.e, through the end of January 2024. Over that period, the price level has risen by about 18%. The real (inflation-adjusted) rate of return in the S&P 500 after three years of Biden is thus only 8%. This is fairly anemic and well below the average annual real rate of return since the New York Stock Exchange opened its doors, which is a three-year average of more than 20%. Biden's performance is also much worse than the bull market under Donald Trump. The S&P was up 36% in real terms at this time of Trump's presidency, or more than four times better. but wall says presidents don’t have anything to do with stock market so who cares, I mean I know there are like 52 threads in here with 60,000+ posts by the same 3-4 people but who cares
If you remove all other factors and just go by history, the markets reaction to a Democratic President and a split Congress is the best scenario for returns at 13.6%.
The worst by far is a Republican President with a Democratic Congress at 4.9%.
The other four scenarios are at various levels in between.
So, in a sense they absolutely have to work together. But, by and large, a Republican Congress will produce better returns no matter the President.
The point can be made that a Republican Congress will work better for the markets than a Democratic Congress. So, from that perspective the President will not have as much control.
But, again, this is very dynamic and many factors come into play -- these are just longterm averages. Each administration will have various issues to deal with and the priorities may not have much to do with the markets at the time.
[Quote: Originally Posted by dubz4dummyz]Thought on covid Before covid the middle class seemed to be gaining some ground financially ...(good amount of savings, good yearly earnings compared to yearly expenses, hence with more money available to them the less of a need to work and potentially less need to work for such a long time (20-65 or approx. 45 years) Then covid hit and everything got shut down. States started printing money at an insane rate, hence plummeting the value of 1 dollar Now covid ends and Joe Blow who was making 70k pre-covid and doing alright for themselves...well after covid ended that person was still making 70k but due to all the printing that same 70k in reality is now equivalent to 40-50k as that person's expenses have now almost doubled if not doubled....not on increased consumption...just on inflation due to printing and devaluation of 1 dollar. Now Joe Blow who thought about retiring at 55-60 is looking at his finances and realizes he may have to work for a lot longer And by that person working longer that means more tax money for the government... So to sum up covid basically fucked the middle/lower class into making less money annually by devaluing the dollar...hence making them work further into retirement years, hence collecting tax for longer.[/Quote]
I would say OUR REACTION to COVID fucked the middle/lower class. Then after COVID, knowing all the money put in circulation, the spending continued making it even worse.
And how about retirees on fixed incomes? Only thing that went up for me is social security increase and that just weakens SS even more.
0
[Quote: Originally Posted by dubz4dummyz]Thought on covid Before covid the middle class seemed to be gaining some ground financially ...(good amount of savings, good yearly earnings compared to yearly expenses, hence with more money available to them the less of a need to work and potentially less need to work for such a long time (20-65 or approx. 45 years) Then covid hit and everything got shut down. States started printing money at an insane rate, hence plummeting the value of 1 dollar Now covid ends and Joe Blow who was making 70k pre-covid and doing alright for themselves...well after covid ended that person was still making 70k but due to all the printing that same 70k in reality is now equivalent to 40-50k as that person's expenses have now almost doubled if not doubled....not on increased consumption...just on inflation due to printing and devaluation of 1 dollar. Now Joe Blow who thought about retiring at 55-60 is looking at his finances and realizes he may have to work for a lot longer And by that person working longer that means more tax money for the government... So to sum up covid basically fucked the middle/lower class into making less money annually by devaluing the dollar...hence making them work further into retirement years, hence collecting tax for longer.[/Quote]
I would say OUR REACTION to COVID fucked the middle/lower class. Then after COVID, knowing all the money put in circulation, the spending continued making it even worse.
And how about retirees on fixed incomes? Only thing that went up for me is social security increase and that just weakens SS even more.
@kcblitzkrieg Curious as to why the markets have stayed so strong? Are they still propped by the massive fed injection from covid-shutdown? Has the FED been injecting money still to this day or did they cut it off?? Or has it become such a rich-mans game the rich realize to keep investing in it to basically achieve full control of how the market fluctuates?
@Raiders22
So think about it a little bit. Dramatic inflation raises all prices as the value of our currency is crushed. Stock prices are in dollars, just like loaves of bread and a gallon of gas or heating oil. All prices are being inflated: Rent, fuel, food and stocks.
This is a simplification of course for the rising asset prices but yes.
The simple answer Dubz is one word: liquidity
There is no covid fed injection responsible for the market rise we've seen since one year ago Spring. What happened then? The bank failures. Fed started up the liquidity machine for the banks needing help maintaining their reserves, essentially offering lines of credit then they tapped into reverse repo facility RRP, which had been building up to the fund to over $2 Trillion. Since then, Spring 2023, it has been drained down to $500mm. Throw in world currency manipulation with the USD/JPY and the ODTE casino as the cherry on top of the whipped cream, plus a whole lot of other toppings outside my range of clear understanding and you've got the big fat blow off top ice cream sundae we all are currently over indulging ourselves on..... that line on the SPX chart won't just continue shooting higher forever. How hard will the correction be is the question....
You will not survive here. You are not a wolf, and this is the land of wolves now...
2
@dubz4dummyz
@kcblitzkrieg Curious as to why the markets have stayed so strong? Are they still propped by the massive fed injection from covid-shutdown? Has the FED been injecting money still to this day or did they cut it off?? Or has it become such a rich-mans game the rich realize to keep investing in it to basically achieve full control of how the market fluctuates?
@Raiders22
So think about it a little bit. Dramatic inflation raises all prices as the value of our currency is crushed. Stock prices are in dollars, just like loaves of bread and a gallon of gas or heating oil. All prices are being inflated: Rent, fuel, food and stocks.
This is a simplification of course for the rising asset prices but yes.
The simple answer Dubz is one word: liquidity
There is no covid fed injection responsible for the market rise we've seen since one year ago Spring. What happened then? The bank failures. Fed started up the liquidity machine for the banks needing help maintaining their reserves, essentially offering lines of credit then they tapped into reverse repo facility RRP, which had been building up to the fund to over $2 Trillion. Since then, Spring 2023, it has been drained down to $500mm. Throw in world currency manipulation with the USD/JPY and the ODTE casino as the cherry on top of the whipped cream, plus a whole lot of other toppings outside my range of clear understanding and you've got the big fat blow off top ice cream sundae we all are currently over indulging ourselves on..... that line on the SPX chart won't just continue shooting higher forever. How hard will the correction be is the question....
Damn...I read so many negative comments in here about our economy & how the sky is falling. This is the same group that doesn't believe in climate change & if I didn't know better I would think America is in bad shape. But, then I remember why we're the greatest country in the world.
You may not care about the financial realities of the US future but your grandkids damn well will.
I hope your comment is a joke here.... "this is the same group that doesn't believe in climate change" I've never made one comment in this cesspool sub about "climate change".
I'm sharing hard data. One cannot argue, it isn't some opinion or partisan BS like 99% of these shiity threads the retreads start. Anyone wanna live with your head up your ass then I welcome you all to it. Myself, I like to live in reality and know what is going on around me and why. Not a fan of someone pissing down my leg and telling me it's raining. That's exactly what you have here.
You will not survive here. You are not a wolf, and this is the land of wolves now...
2
@Midnight1
Damn...I read so many negative comments in here about our economy & how the sky is falling. This is the same group that doesn't believe in climate change & if I didn't know better I would think America is in bad shape. But, then I remember why we're the greatest country in the world.
You may not care about the financial realities of the US future but your grandkids damn well will.
I hope your comment is a joke here.... "this is the same group that doesn't believe in climate change" I've never made one comment in this cesspool sub about "climate change".
I'm sharing hard data. One cannot argue, it isn't some opinion or partisan BS like 99% of these shiity threads the retreads start. Anyone wanna live with your head up your ass then I welcome you all to it. Myself, I like to live in reality and know what is going on around me and why. Not a fan of someone pissing down my leg and telling me it's raining. That's exactly what you have here.
It's that the foundation has extreme major cracks in it and it is at risk of breaking. When will it break ?? How bad will the effects of the break be ??
Capitalism should have been allowed to run its course back in 2008 and we very likely wouldn't be having this exact discussion right now.
You will not survive here. You are not a wolf, and this is the land of wolves now...
2
......and it's not that "the sky is falling".
It's that the foundation has extreme major cracks in it and it is at risk of breaking. When will it break ?? How bad will the effects of the break be ??
Capitalism should have been allowed to run its course back in 2008 and we very likely wouldn't be having this exact discussion right now.
In just February, 1.2 million immigrants (legal and illegal) gained a job. Meanwhile, 500k native-born Americans LOST their job. Since Covid, native-born workers have actually LOST 2 million jobs. All of the net job gains are immigrants.
"Under Biden (2020-2024), the labor force has surged in large part due to immigration: 2/3 of all jobs in 2023 went to foreign-born workers & all labor force growth since Feb 2020 has been due to foreign-born individuals. As a result: labor markets balanced, and wage inflation rose with productivity."
"We have "more workers" from immigration - aka, Biden's 'failed' border policy. Stay with me...
Again, I am NOT defending this policy, but making clear that immigration is not being highlighted as contributing factor to falling inflation, because it is so polarizing.
Immigration is important to labor participation, which rolled over hard once Trump took office. Remember the obstacles in sourcing #H1-B visas? So many sent packing and borders were closed.
Well, weak immigration translates to labor shortages and elevated wage inflation - especially at the lower end of wage earners.
And the inverse is true: strong immigration contributes to higher productivity, more consumption and more tax receipts.
Since February 2020 - post Trump - almost all labor force growth in United States has been due to foreign-born individuals."
You will not survive here. You are not a wolf, and this is the land of wolves now...
0
someone mentioned the record strong employment numbers.....
In just February, 1.2 million immigrants (legal and illegal) gained a job. Meanwhile, 500k native-born Americans LOST their job. Since Covid, native-born workers have actually LOST 2 million jobs. All of the net job gains are immigrants.
"Under Biden (2020-2024), the labor force has surged in large part due to immigration: 2/3 of all jobs in 2023 went to foreign-born workers & all labor force growth since Feb 2020 has been due to foreign-born individuals. As a result: labor markets balanced, and wage inflation rose with productivity."
"We have "more workers" from immigration - aka, Biden's 'failed' border policy. Stay with me...
Again, I am NOT defending this policy, but making clear that immigration is not being highlighted as contributing factor to falling inflation, because it is so polarizing.
Immigration is important to labor participation, which rolled over hard once Trump took office. Remember the obstacles in sourcing #H1-B visas? So many sent packing and borders were closed.
Well, weak immigration translates to labor shortages and elevated wage inflation - especially at the lower end of wage earners.
And the inverse is true: strong immigration contributes to higher productivity, more consumption and more tax receipts.
Since February 2020 - post Trump - almost all labor force growth in United States has been due to foreign-born individuals."
@Midnight1 Damn...I read so many negative comments in here about our economy & how the sky is falling. This is the same group that doesn't believe in climate change & if I didn't know better I would think America is in bad shape. But, then I remember why we're the greatest country in the world. You may not care about the financial realities of the US future but your grandkids damn well will. I hope your comment is a joke here.... "this is the same group that doesn't believe in climate change" I've never made one comment in this cesspool sub about "climate change". I'm sharing hard data. One cannot argue, it isn't some opinion or partisan BS like 99% of these shiity threads the retreads start. Anyone wanna live with your head up your ass then I welcome you all to it. Myself, I like to live in reality and know what is going on around me and why. Not a fan of someone pissing down my leg and telling me it's raining. That's exactly what you have here.
I can speak confidently that from a financial point of view that my grandchildren will not have to worry. As far as our workforce, immigrants that had worked American fields & farms are now opening businesses & becoming productive members of our society. That's a win-win for everyone. We are installing a new dock & with that comes seawall maintenance. You know who's doing that work? Members of the Haitian community are doing this backbreaking work. I get an improved seawall & they get a paycheck. And you have a problem with this?
Finally don't preach to me about reality & see if you can stay away from old Judge Judy insults. You can do better.
1
Quote Originally Posted by kcblitzkrieg:
@Midnight1 Damn...I read so many negative comments in here about our economy & how the sky is falling. This is the same group that doesn't believe in climate change & if I didn't know better I would think America is in bad shape. But, then I remember why we're the greatest country in the world. You may not care about the financial realities of the US future but your grandkids damn well will. I hope your comment is a joke here.... "this is the same group that doesn't believe in climate change" I've never made one comment in this cesspool sub about "climate change". I'm sharing hard data. One cannot argue, it isn't some opinion or partisan BS like 99% of these shiity threads the retreads start. Anyone wanna live with your head up your ass then I welcome you all to it. Myself, I like to live in reality and know what is going on around me and why. Not a fan of someone pissing down my leg and telling me it's raining. That's exactly what you have here.
I can speak confidently that from a financial point of view that my grandchildren will not have to worry. As far as our workforce, immigrants that had worked American fields & farms are now opening businesses & becoming productive members of our society. That's a win-win for everyone. We are installing a new dock & with that comes seawall maintenance. You know who's doing that work? Members of the Haitian community are doing this backbreaking work. I get an improved seawall & they get a paycheck. And you have a problem with this?
Finally don't preach to me about reality & see if you can stay away from old Judge Judy insults. You can do better.
tell me where anywhere did I say I had a problem with the work force ???
Once again, I merely shared hard economic data as a reflection of what is the real story behind the numbers. Not opinionated, not with commentary. A popular topic around here that NO ONE had accurately addressed, to my knowledge and memory.
"judge judy insults"....I dont' understand this reference and again, where the hell did I insult you huh Darkness ??
I hope your foundation you have put away for your grandkids stays strong. No one can predict the future. 401k, social security, pensions, etc. are not guaranteed in perpetuity.
You will not survive here. You are not a wolf, and this is the land of wolves now...
0
@Midnight1
tell me where anywhere did I say I had a problem with the work force ???
Once again, I merely shared hard economic data as a reflection of what is the real story behind the numbers. Not opinionated, not with commentary. A popular topic around here that NO ONE had accurately addressed, to my knowledge and memory.
"judge judy insults"....I dont' understand this reference and again, where the hell did I insult you huh Darkness ??
I hope your foundation you have put away for your grandkids stays strong. No one can predict the future. 401k, social security, pensions, etc. are not guaranteed in perpetuity.
Thought on covid Before covid the middle class seemed to be gaining some ground financially ...(good amount of savings, good yearly earnings compared to yearly expenses, hence with more money available to them the less of a need to work and potentially less need to work for such a long time (20-65 or approx. 45 years) Then covid hit and everything got shut down. States started printing money at an insane rate, hence plummeting the value of 1 dollar Now covid ends and Joe Blow who was making 70k pre-covid and doing alright for themselves...well after covid ended that person was still making 70k but due to all the printing that same 70k in reality is now equivalent to 40-50k as that person's expenses have now almost doubled if not doubled....not on increased consumption...just on inflation due to printing and devaluation of 1 dollar. Now Joe Blow who thought about retiring at 55-60 is looking at his finances and realizes he may have to work for a lot longer And by that person working longer that means more tax money for the government... So to sum up covid basically fucked the middle/lower class into making less money annually by devaluing the dollar...hence making them work further into retirement years, hence collecting tax for longer.
I would say OUR REACTION to COVID fucked the middle/lower class. Then after COVID, knowing all the money put in circulation, the spending continued making it even worse. And how about retirees on fixed incomes? Only thing that went up for me is social security increase and that just weakens SS even more.
This is exactly right. It was our "reaction" to COVID that put everything in disarray in the ecomony, not the disease itself. We never should have "Shut Down" the economy... for any reason. Period. End of Story. I "hope" our government leaders have learned this lesson,.... but I doubt it.
Shutting Down the economy led to government handing out stimulus free money checks for people, businesses, etc. , which led to additional money printing, which led to too many dollars chasing too few goods in the economy. Shutting down the economy completely destroyed the supply/demand balance that had kept inflation in check for decades.
2
Quote Originally Posted by UNIMAN:
Quote Originally Posted by dubz4dummyz:
Thought on covid Before covid the middle class seemed to be gaining some ground financially ...(good amount of savings, good yearly earnings compared to yearly expenses, hence with more money available to them the less of a need to work and potentially less need to work for such a long time (20-65 or approx. 45 years) Then covid hit and everything got shut down. States started printing money at an insane rate, hence plummeting the value of 1 dollar Now covid ends and Joe Blow who was making 70k pre-covid and doing alright for themselves...well after covid ended that person was still making 70k but due to all the printing that same 70k in reality is now equivalent to 40-50k as that person's expenses have now almost doubled if not doubled....not on increased consumption...just on inflation due to printing and devaluation of 1 dollar. Now Joe Blow who thought about retiring at 55-60 is looking at his finances and realizes he may have to work for a lot longer And by that person working longer that means more tax money for the government... So to sum up covid basically fucked the middle/lower class into making less money annually by devaluing the dollar...hence making them work further into retirement years, hence collecting tax for longer.
I would say OUR REACTION to COVID fucked the middle/lower class. Then after COVID, knowing all the money put in circulation, the spending continued making it even worse. And how about retirees on fixed incomes? Only thing that went up for me is social security increase and that just weakens SS even more.
This is exactly right. It was our "reaction" to COVID that put everything in disarray in the ecomony, not the disease itself. We never should have "Shut Down" the economy... for any reason. Period. End of Story. I "hope" our government leaders have learned this lesson,.... but I doubt it.
Shutting Down the economy led to government handing out stimulus free money checks for people, businesses, etc. , which led to additional money printing, which led to too many dollars chasing too few goods in the economy. Shutting down the economy completely destroyed the supply/demand balance that had kept inflation in check for decades.
......and it's not that "the sky is falling". It's that the foundation has extreme major cracks in it and it is at risk of breaking. When will it break ?? How bad will the effects of the break be ?? Capitalism should have been allowed to run its course back in 2008 and we very likely wouldn't be having this exact discussion right now.
This isn't even about capitalism... If the FED had been doing its job in 2008 (which part of it is overseeing the banking industry), then the collapse never would have happened. Too many financial institutions were "overleveraged," and the FED was asleep at the wheel as the system cratered.
The "guardrails" were already in place in 2008,.... but they (The FED) failed to do their job.
2
Quote Originally Posted by kcblitzkrieg:
......and it's not that "the sky is falling". It's that the foundation has extreme major cracks in it and it is at risk of breaking. When will it break ?? How bad will the effects of the break be ?? Capitalism should have been allowed to run its course back in 2008 and we very likely wouldn't be having this exact discussion right now.
This isn't even about capitalism... If the FED had been doing its job in 2008 (which part of it is overseeing the banking industry), then the collapse never would have happened. Too many financial institutions were "overleveraged," and the FED was asleep at the wheel as the system cratered.
The "guardrails" were already in place in 2008,.... but they (The FED) failed to do their job.
I can speak confidently that from a financial point of view that my grandchildren will not have to worry. As far as our workforce, immigrants that had worked American fields & farms are now opening businesses & becoming productive members of our society. That's a win-win for everyone. We are installing a new dock & with that comes seawall maintenance. You know who's doing that work? Members of the Haitian community are doing this backbreaking work. I get an improved seawall & they get a paycheck. And you have a problem with this? Finally don't preach to me about reality & see if you can stay away from old Judge Judy insults. You can do better.
You are absolutely delusional. I only have to mention $34 Trillion to tell "You" that you have your head up your ass.
Tell that to your grandchildren, and tell them "Your generation" will have put "them" at a disadvantage as they grow up. That's right. High Taxes, High Taxes, and Higher Taxes, and a reduction in SS benefits. Tell that to your grandchildren.
Jesus Christ some of you are completely "out to lunch", and don't even understand what is going on...
3
Quote Originally Posted by Midnight1:
I can speak confidently that from a financial point of view that my grandchildren will not have to worry. As far as our workforce, immigrants that had worked American fields & farms are now opening businesses & becoming productive members of our society. That's a win-win for everyone. We are installing a new dock & with that comes seawall maintenance. You know who's doing that work? Members of the Haitian community are doing this backbreaking work. I get an improved seawall & they get a paycheck. And you have a problem with this? Finally don't preach to me about reality & see if you can stay away from old Judge Judy insults. You can do better.
You are absolutely delusional. I only have to mention $34 Trillion to tell "You" that you have your head up your ass.
Tell that to your grandchildren, and tell them "Your generation" will have put "them" at a disadvantage as they grow up. That's right. High Taxes, High Taxes, and Higher Taxes, and a reduction in SS benefits. Tell that to your grandchildren.
Jesus Christ some of you are completely "out to lunch", and don't even understand what is going on...
@Rush51 Yes. Trump listened to Fauci. His mistake.
His biggest mistake by far of his presidency IMHO.... But where was the CDC ?
I mean Center for ""Disease Control" and Prevention is in its name,..... and they had no plan at all for what to do when the pandemic hit. If they can't do their job, maybe "they" should be defunded. I want our government to "work" for the people...
1
Quote Originally Posted by kcblitzkrieg:
@Rush51 Yes. Trump listened to Fauci. His mistake.
His biggest mistake by far of his presidency IMHO.... But where was the CDC ?
I mean Center for ""Disease Control" and Prevention is in its name,..... and they had no plan at all for what to do when the pandemic hit. If they can't do their job, maybe "they" should be defunded. I want our government to "work" for the people...
I don't think "for the people" can be accomplished now
More of an ideal than it is a reality....it's more or less "for the company that gives me funds" now....
Took a drastic turn....may have been like this my entire life, but with the added information through social media and the internet you can't hide it anymore....it just shows how crooked the political aspect really is....question is, how can it be reeled back in now that everyone knows...
COVERS allows u to tell someone they are sexually frustrated so long as ur hands are clean
1
I don't think "for the people" can be accomplished now
More of an ideal than it is a reality....it's more or less "for the company that gives me funds" now....
Took a drastic turn....may have been like this my entire life, but with the added information through social media and the internet you can't hide it anymore....it just shows how crooked the political aspect really is....question is, how can it be reeled back in now that everyone knows...
Quote Originally Posted by kcblitzkrieg: @Rush51 Yes. Trump listened to Fauci. His mistake. .... But where was the CDC ?I mean Center for ""Disease Control" and Prevention is in its name,..... and they had no plan at all for what to do when the pandemic hit. ..
Before the pandemic, US was rated the best prepared country for a pandemic. Center for disease control was among the top public health agencies in the world. Obama administration added a pandemic response team to National security council. But in 2018, this team was disbanded and pandemic playbook was abandoned. Trump administration eroded CD autonomy, politicized decision making and silenced CDC leadership in providing guidance to public. As a result, US handling of the pandemic was a disaster. To deflect from his mismanagement, Trump blamed Faucci. US would have been better off if CDC had greater authority over state departments of health and enforcement powers as in other countries.
0
Quote Originally Posted by Rush51:
Quote Originally Posted by kcblitzkrieg: @Rush51 Yes. Trump listened to Fauci. His mistake. .... But where was the CDC ?I mean Center for ""Disease Control" and Prevention is in its name,..... and they had no plan at all for what to do when the pandemic hit. ..
Before the pandemic, US was rated the best prepared country for a pandemic. Center for disease control was among the top public health agencies in the world. Obama administration added a pandemic response team to National security council. But in 2018, this team was disbanded and pandemic playbook was abandoned. Trump administration eroded CD autonomy, politicized decision making and silenced CDC leadership in providing guidance to public. As a result, US handling of the pandemic was a disaster. To deflect from his mismanagement, Trump blamed Faucci. US would have been better off if CDC had greater authority over state departments of health and enforcement powers as in other countries.
Quote Originally Posted by Rush51: Quote Originally Posted by kcblitzkrieg: @Rush51 Yes. Trump listened to Fauci. His mistake. .... But where was the CDC ?I mean Center for ""Disease Control" and Prevention is in its name,..... and they had no plan at all for what to do when the pandemic hit. .. Before the pandemic, US was rated the best prepared country for a pandemic. Center for disease control was among the top public health agencies in the world. Obama administration added a pandemic response team to National security council. But in 2018, this team was disbanded and pandemic playbook was abandoned. Trump administration eroded CD autonomy, politicized decision making and silenced CDC leadership in providing guidance to public. As a result, US handling of the pandemic was a disaster. To deflect from his mismanagement, Trump blamed Faucci. US would have been better off if CDC had greater authority over state departments of health and enforcement powers as in other countries.
So, (if) the CDC was defunded, then their pandemic plans were thrown in the trash ?
We are engaging in a special kind of stupid w you lefties on the left...
2
Quote Originally Posted by thirdperson:
Quote Originally Posted by Rush51: Quote Originally Posted by kcblitzkrieg: @Rush51 Yes. Trump listened to Fauci. His mistake. .... But where was the CDC ?I mean Center for ""Disease Control" and Prevention is in its name,..... and they had no plan at all for what to do when the pandemic hit. .. Before the pandemic, US was rated the best prepared country for a pandemic. Center for disease control was among the top public health agencies in the world. Obama administration added a pandemic response team to National security council. But in 2018, this team was disbanded and pandemic playbook was abandoned. Trump administration eroded CD autonomy, politicized decision making and silenced CDC leadership in providing guidance to public. As a result, US handling of the pandemic was a disaster. To deflect from his mismanagement, Trump blamed Faucci. US would have been better off if CDC had greater authority over state departments of health and enforcement powers as in other countries.
So, (if) the CDC was defunded, then their pandemic plans were thrown in the trash ?
We are engaging in a special kind of stupid w you lefties on the left...
@kcblitzkrieg Judge Judy wrote a book with a title of "Don't Pee On My Leg And Tell Me It's Raining." The book came out in 1996 & was a best seller. C'mom kc...ya'll didn't know that? Re imigrants in the workforce, history shows they perform jobs most Americans won't do. Look at it this way, 2 out of 3 Trump's wives were immigrants. Proving once again we need immigrants to do jobs Americans wouldn't do.
Shouldn't " we the people "" decide the (legal) immigrants that come to this country to make this country better ??
You lefties just act as though illegal immigration should be normal. "" YOU" ( lefties) are the abnormal ones....
2
Quote Originally Posted by Midnight1:
@kcblitzkrieg Judge Judy wrote a book with a title of "Don't Pee On My Leg And Tell Me It's Raining." The book came out in 1996 & was a best seller. C'mom kc...ya'll didn't know that? Re imigrants in the workforce, history shows they perform jobs most Americans won't do. Look at it this way, 2 out of 3 Trump's wives were immigrants. Proving once again we need immigrants to do jobs Americans wouldn't do.
Shouldn't " we the people "" decide the (legal) immigrants that come to this country to make this country better ??
You lefties just act as though illegal immigration should be normal. "" YOU" ( lefties) are the abnormal ones....
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