Biden impeachment inquiry

@UNIMAN

 Maybe I should care more about Hunter being on the board; I just do not.  I have been involved in many of these situations where I wonder why someone is on a particular company's board.  Sometimes there are various reasons for it besides them having intense experience in that company's main focus.  

So, I think Hunter not having energy experience matters very little.  There are many folks on boards like this.  They may bring other areas of expertise, etc.

I also do not care what a company decides to pay someone for this either.

However, if they can prove there is a direct link to appointing Hunter just to curry favors, etc. -- that is a different matter.  Maybe I have not looked into it enough, but I do not see it at this point.

It looks bad, but lots of things look bad and may not even be ethical -- but are allowed.  This is exactly how, and why, so many politicians make their money while in office.  There is a lot to be said for who you are, who you know, and what you have access to -- in order to make money.  It is a bad look often, but not necessarily illegal.

This, again, is an example of Republicans thinking they can get the Media and Democrats on board with ditching one of their own for a reason like this -- it is just hard to do this.

@Raiders22

 So, I think Hunter not having energy experience matters very little. There are many folks on boards like this. They may bring other areas of expertise, etc.

  The problem is that it's too obvious why he was there. He has no "areas of expertise", except maybe drug usage.

@THEMUGG

 Did he use his name to get on the board?  So?  Or did they use his name to GET him on the board AND did they do this to get favorable policy?  That is the difference to me.  

In a transcript from a closed-door interview released by the Republican-controlled House Oversight Committee on Thursday, former Burisma board member Devon Archer said Hunter projected an "illusion" of access to power when he was at the company nearly a decade ago and his father was U.S. vice president.

"He was getting paid a lot of money, and I think, you know, he wanted to show value," Archer told the committee on Monday.

"Given the brand, I think he would look to, you know, to get the leverage from it," he said. "A lot of it's about opening doors, you know, globally in D.C. ... and then obviously having those doors opened, you know, sent the right signals."

House Republicans say Archer's interview supports unproven claims that President Biden, his son Hunter and other family members have engaged in financial misconduct, allegations the White House denies.

@THEMUGG

 Then you have this from the time in 2014:

In the span of a few weeks, an energy firm little-known inside the United States added two members to its board of directors — scoring connections to Secretary of State John Kerry and Vice President Joe Biden in the bargain.

On April 22, Cyprus-based Burisma announced that financier Devon Archer had joined its board. Archer, who shared a room in college with Kerry’s stepson, Christopher Heinz, served as national finance co-chair for the former senator’s 2004 presidential campaign.

Then, on Monday, the firm announced that Biden’s younger son, R. Hunter Biden, would join the board of directors.

Why would the company, which bills itself as Ukraine’s largest private gas producer, need such powerful friends in Washington?

The answer might be the company’s holdings in Ukraine. They include, according to the firm’s website, permits to explore in the Dnieper-Donets Basin in the country’s eastern regions, home to an armed pro-Russian separatist movement. They also include permits to explore in the Azov-Kuban Basin of the strategic Crimean peninsula, annexed earlier this year by Moscow.

It’s not clear what will happen to energy firms, like Burisma, that aim to explore and exploit potential deposits in those areas. Neither the Archer nor the Biden announcement explicitly mentions the unrest, and it’s not clear exactly when their discussions to join the board began. In an April 23 Q&A, the transcript of which appears on Burisma’s website, Archer said he had been approached “a few months ago” about the opportunity to consult for the oil company. The announcement of his directorship came less than a month after the disputed vote in Crimea to rejoin Russia.

The White House and the vice president’s office denied there was anything untoward about Biden’s appointment.

“Hunter Biden and other members of the Biden family are obviously private citizens and where they work does not reflect an endorsement by the administration or by the Vice President or President,” said President Barack Obama’s press secretary, Jay Carney. “But I would refer you to the Vice President’s office.”

“Hunter Biden is a private citizen and a lawyer,” the vice president’s press secretary, Kendra Barkoff, said in a statement. “The vice president does not endorse any particular company and has no involvement with this company. For any additional questions, I refer you to Hunter’s office.”

The person who answered the telephone at Biden’s office in Washington, D.C., on Wednesday cheerfully declared that Biden was traveling, that his return date was unknown, and that his assistant was also out of pocket.

An email to Burisma’s public relations department did not elicit a reply.

But Archer coyly acknowledged the potential benefits of having him on the board in the April 23 Q&A.

Question: “In the American media you are often linked to the immediate circle of the U.S. Secretary of State Mr. John Kerry and the Vice-president of the United States Mr. Joe Biden.”

Archer: “American journalists really think so (smiles). I do know them.”

@THEMUGG

 Companies do this sort of thing all of the time; individuals do this as well.  They want connections and money and the ability to influence favorable policy.  I realize it is a bad look, but is there anything flat-out illegal about it.

I am aware of many companies that have folks on their boards that have direct connections to Congressmen, for example.  It for sure looks like an ethical issue or conflict of interest -- but it is not illegal.

Was policy influenced directly by having these two on the board.  I think people are looking at the money Biden made without showing a direct enough link to where he influenced policy or decisions.

Would it have been looked at differently if Hunter and Archer had been on the policy before Obama came into office.  Probably.  But did they do anything differently than they would have if so.

Any other person from the USA that was on the board before or after Obama went in office would be connected enough to tangentially have access to the administration as well.

I just think it absolutely look(s)ed bad but I have not seen where decisions were made that would not have been made if these two had not been on the board.

Maybe I am wrong and missed something.

@Raiders22

 I read a few articles about Eastern European culture and during the time frame it was popular for companies to have notable names on corporate boards.

@Raiders22

IT'S ALL ABOUT JOE.

 1) In July 2023, former Biden business associate Devon Archer described how Joe Biden was “The Brand” and was used to send “signals” of power, access, and influence to enrich the Biden family from foreign sources.

2) Devon Archer alone was aware of at least 20 times in which then-Vice President Biden spoke on speakerphone with Hunter Biden’s foreign business associates. Democrats would have Americans believe that these phone calls with then-Vice President Biden were simply to discuss the weather.

3) In February 2014, then-Vice President Joe Biden dined with oligarchs from Russia and Kazakhstan who funneled millions of dollars to Hunter Biden and his business associates.

4) In April 2015, then-Vice President Biden dined with Hunter Biden’s foreign business associates, including Ukrainian Burisma executive Vadym Pozharsky. Burisma was then being investigated by Ukrainian Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin for corruption.

5) Then-Vice President Biden had coffee with Hunter Biden’s Chinese business associate, Jonathan Li of BHR, in Beijing and wrote a college letter of recommendation for his daughter.

6) In 2015, then-Vice President Biden hosted Hunter Biden and Devon Archer and other business associates at the official residence of the Vice President. The topic of discussion was filling the top seat at the United Nations. The Kazakhstani government official who wanted the U.N. position attended both dinners at Café Milano with then-Vice President Biden.

7) Using the pseudonym “Robert L. Peters,” Vice President Biden was informed by his staff of a call in 2016 with President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko. Copied on that official email? Hunter Biden, who was sitting on the board of the Ukrainian company Burisma.

8) On December 4, 2015, Biden business associate Eric Schwerin wrote to Kate Bedingfield in the Office of the Vice President providing quotes to use in response to media outreach regarding Hunter Biden’s role in Burisma, a Ukrainian energy company. Later that day, Ms. Bedingfield responded to Mr. Schwerin saying, “VP signed off on this[.]” According to Devon Archer, after a Burisma board of directors meeting in Dubai on the evening of December 4, 2015, Hunter Biden “called D.C.” to discuss pressure that Burisma asked him to relieve.

9) In May 2017, James Gilliar, a Biden family associate, emailed Hunter Biden and other associates to formalize how they would divide the profit from their deal with CEFC, a Chinese Communist Party linked energy company. Gilliar indicated Joe Biden would receive 10 percent, which has been confirmed by former Biden family associate, Tony Bobulinski.

10) On May 20, 2017, James Gilliar told Tony Bobulinksi, another business associate, “Don’t mention Joe being involved, it’s only when u are face to face[.] I know u know that but they are paranoid[.]”

11) In a September 21, 2017, email, Hunter Biden wrote that Joe Biden is his business partner and provided Joe Biden’s personal cell phone if the recipient seeks confirmation. Emails also show that Hunter Biden, CEFC officials, and Joe Biden would share offices under the Hudson West/CEFC/Biden Foundation name.

12) On July 30, 2017, Hunter Biden demanded money from Chinese business associates and threatened that Joe Biden was sitting next to him: “if I get a call or text from anyone involved in this other than you….I will make certain that between the man sitting next to me and every person he knows and my ability to forever hold a grudge that you will regret not following my direct.”

13) On August 3, 2017, Hunter Biden claimed “The Biden’s are the best I know at doing exactly what the Chairman wants from this partnership[.] Please let’s not quibble over peanuts.” The Chairman is Ye Jianming is a Chinese billionaire tied to a CCP-intelligence gathering agency. Ye stated that CEFC China’s vision “is to obtain overseas resources and serve the national strategy.”

14) During Rob Walker’s recorded interview with the FBI in December 2020, he told agents that Joe Biden attended a CEFC meeting.

15) As Vice President, Joe Biden allowed his son to travel on Air Force Two with him to court business around the world. Vice President Biden brought Hunter Biden along to at least 15 countries where he sold “The Brand” to enrich the Biden family.

16) Hunter Biden’s business associates reportedly visited the White House more than 80 times when Joe Biden was Vice President.

17) In February 2014, a report indicates then-Vice President Biden met with two of Hunter’s Mexican business associates at the White House.

18) In October 2015, a report says that Hunter Biden arranged a video call with his father and Mexican business partners.  The next month, then-Vice President Biden hosted Mexican business partners and a Biden associate, Jeff Cooper at the Vice President’s official residence.

19) In February 2016, then-Vice President Biden allowed his son and Biden associate, Jeffrey Cooper, to fly to Mexico on Air Force 2 to meet with business partners.

20) The FBI’s June 30, 2020 FD-1023 form contains allegations that then-Vice President Joe Biden allegedly engaged in an extortion scheme where he was paid $5 million in exchange for certain actions.

21) Hunter’s pitch to Chinese investors was access to his father, Joe Biden. In September 2011, while his father was Vice President, Hunter wrote in an email that his value to Chinese investors “has nothing to do with me and everything to do with my last name.”

22) In 2019, Hunter Biden texted his daughter, claiming that, “unlike Pop I won’t make you give me half your salary.”

Then I read about Dem New Jersey Senator Menendez under investigation for possibly accepting gold bars.

NBC states; 

"For purposes of the Federal Extortion Act, it makes no difference if the senator took an official act so long as he accepted the money and there was knowledge the money was in exchange for that official influence, even if he never carried out what he had promised he would do," NBC Legal Analyst Danny Cevallos said.

And then I laugh at how the Bidens are defended. 

#2     
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2023/08/03/hunter-biden-associate-says-joe-biden-never-talked-business-on-calls/70521880007/

kind of shoots a lot of your other talking points in the arse doesn’t it.

whats your source , Comer? 

And as far as being on a board of directors. There are countless countries and countless board of directors. To land on a board in a corrupt country, where you father as VP is basically overseeing and handling, and on a board where the CEO is a wanted man in exile.............unthinkable! 

Tell me what business Hunter would talk about while on a board of a corrupt forgien gas company? Do ya think Hunter was deciding where to drill for oil or gas? Do ya think he talked "actual business" at all? Pops WAS his only business. Archer testified about arranging equipment to be moved across several countries, setting up meetings with Texas oil companies, Hunter just "sold the brand". Archer did tanagble services, what did Hunter do? How many times did Archer's family call him during these business meetings? 

No it doesn't shoot anyone in the arse. Bobolinsky met Joe, talked business.

Then you have 5 million from the Chinese, no services, no strings attached, Russians, Romanians, two million in taxes not paid, etc, etc.

@darkhorse12

Yessir.  That is largely correct.  But it is more of a follow the leader trend.  The USA and other Western countries started to do this some years ago.  First there was a heterogeneity drive, as it were, to sort of diversify.  There had been a big push for many years, especially for minorities and women to be put on boards.

Then there was a drive to get foreigners on the boards, as so many companies started to 'go global', so to speak.

Some offices are subject to nationality requirements, etc.  Some countries will require a majority to be citizens or residents sometimes.

But for some countries it is an esteem thing or a sign of acclaim or achievement to have members from more 'advanced' countries -- especially if your company is looking to expand or do business there.

You see that a lot with the Board of Directors.  However, in the USA you will see it as well with the Board of Advisors or other countries would have something similar like a Board of Commissioners.  So, that will affect the compensation format as well as the tax situation.  This way you also have the best of both worlds:  you have their expertise and diversification factor but on the BoA they do not have as much clout as on the BoD.  This way you can take their advice (or not) and not have to worry about them 'forcing' decisions on your company.

But you are correct that a lot of Eastern European countries and companies there have followed this trend.  This is almost looked at as if you have 'made it' more then other companies in your country that have not done this.  A lot more to it, but that is the gist of how it came to be.  

@UNIMAN

 First, a very good breakdown and a concise timeline of the events. 

With Lisin dead and Zlochevsky denying the whole situation.  They have to prove this.  Zlochevsky may not have known, as it may have been going on behind his back.  It does not look good.  I am also not sure of Archer's motive at this point.  But if Biden could not get word that there was not an ongoing investigation, it is confusing what his motive for Shokin being fired would be.

If the FBI really has supporting evidence on a bribe this should be exposed at some very near point.  Because if there is NOT clear evidence that they were receiving money FOR political favors, then this breaks down to just a case of a very bad look and judgment on Joe's part.  It also, then, looks like a very prudent decision on Hunter's part.  

I cannot blame Hunter for taking advantage of a situation to make a killing.  If a company wants to pay him that amount for his 'expertise' -- good for him if it is not illegal or unethical.

BUT if they were taking money in return for political favors that needs to be proven and quickly.  It should not take this long to get your ducks in a row on an investigation of this magnitude.  Because this is the sort of thing that will reach out and grab quite a few folks.  Even the FBI, if it is proven they are 'hiding' or 'stalling' information.

It should be fairly straightforward to prove there is more to this than just Trump trying to get Biden.

Otherwise, the longer it drags on it seems that way, especially, because a lot of folks were upset at Trump when he, more or less, let Clinton off the hook when he got in office.  So, maybe Trump decided he would not make that same mistake again.

It will be very interesting going forward.  But they should hurry up.  Democrats might want it to drag on though the election and then if Biden has to step down Harris would step up.  

But Republicans have to prove there is more than just a lot of smoke and they need to do it fast.  Because at this rate they will not beat Biden at the polls.

If it is done before the election and the Democrats have to find someone to step in -- they should want there to be enough time to get a candidate up to speed to replace Biden, if necessary.  If they really feel there is nothing there -- they should want it rushed as well.

It is very concerning that this is taking as long as it is.  I get the complexity and the need to be right but they sure need to speed it up some.

@Raiders22

 When I look at Climate Change the first thing I do is seek out actual data, the facts. And I hope the data is accurate and correct, it's all I have! Not hard really when it comes to Climate Change to find out how many hurricanes last 100 years, monthly temp avg's, etc. Numbers are easy to find in most cases.

Now when it comes to what really happened in the Ukraine, a whole different animal. The media is filled with obvious false stories, so hard to pick out any truth amongst thousands of bogus articles that are sometimes hard to determine if truth or fiction.

Take this one from Washington Post; https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/inside-vp-biden-s-linking-of-a-loan-to-a-ukraine-prosecutor-s-ouster/ar-AA1gLkgn

Statements made; As Vice President Biden flew to Ukraine in early December 2015, he read through his briefing materials in preparation for a meeting with Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko and what would be a momentous speech to the Ukrainian parliament. A key goal for the trip was to urge the government to crack down on corruption, starting with the removal of the powerful prosecutor general, viewed by U.S. and European officials as an impediment to reform.

Under a tactical policy known inside the Obama administration as “big hugs and little punches,” U.S. officials originally planned to have Biden urge Poroshenko to fire the prosecutor, Viktor Shokin, but at the same time sign a renewal of a $1 billion loan guarantee. On the plane, according to a person who participated in the conversation, Biden “called an audible” — he changed the plan. It was time for a bigger punch: The loan guarantee was the main point of leverage with Ukraine, the vice president declared, so he instead should tell Poroshenko the loan would not be forthcoming until Shokin was gone — a suspicious ouster to House Republicans now pushing for President Biden’s impeachment.

Read the entire article. It is fiction. Biden never mentioned holding back the loan until March, 3 months later. In his speech Biden included "reforms to the General Prosecutors Office." That's it. 

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2015/12/09/remarks-vice-president-joe-biden-ukrainian-rada

So the Post lies to cover for Biden? Or maybe to discredit Trump? Both.

The fact is Shokin took the job of General Prosecutor in February of 2015. When he took office he found all files on impending investigations were missing or destroyed. He was starting from square one. Ten months later Biden says he has to go, not doing his job.  How long after Trump left office did he face criminal charges? Think it was longer than 10 months without starting from square one.

If Shokin was not doing his job, then why this email from Burisma to Hunter in Nov, 2015? "....the ultimate purpose to close down for any cases/pursuits against Nikolay in Ukraine.” ( Nikolay is nickname for Zlochevsky. )

Ahh, now I see this Nov 25, 2015 dated State Dept. memo that they are all refering to. It says Shokin must go. Guy has been in his position only 9 months, starting with no file history, and yet he is now the problem????

Not buying it.

@UNIMAN

 Yessir.  Even with the climate numbers you are right that the numbers are what they are and that they are easy enough to find.  It is the misinterpretation of that data as a whole and the tweaking of the presentation of it that is so very deceptive.  

MMGW is the absolute biggest scam of our time -- and I cannot even think of what would be in second place.  It is that bad.

With the Biden, Shokin issue -- I have seen that before and it certainly looks very bad, indeed.

The problem is now you cannot subpoena Biden and get his perspective on it and what he was thinking at that time -- because he no longer knows what he was thinking at that time.

So, the whole case has to be built with that in mind I think.

But I fully suspect he went rogue and decided this on his own and then the administration, and now the media, had to back his play or make things even worse.

There is speculation that this is one of, more than a few, reasons that Obama was not really backing Biden to run for President. 

Was Biden worried that Shokin was going to investigate what went on or did he just decide this was something he wanted to do at that time to look cool and look like he had some sort of control.  People have to remember that there was also immense pressure on Shokin to reform that office or at least to ease the look of corruption that it had -- so, he knew he was under great scrutiny.  That is the tricky part to know now.  Because this certainly does not seem to be the original plan from the administration.

It all just looks so bad at this point that they need to fully look into it.  The media should be more concerned with the potential corruption and bribery, etc. than just simply trying to say that it is a Republican witch hunt of sorts.

There have been complaints against Shokin not just from the US and western countries.  Within months of Shokin appointment, members of Ukraine parliament began calling for his ouster.  He hadn't prosecuted any member of Yanukovychi's corrupt administration.  He didn't seek punishment for over 100 deaths in protests.   Ukraine's anti-corruption action center confirmed that Shokin was corrupt.  His comments on Fox news cannot be trusted.  Anti-corruption efforts were a big part of US diplomacy with Ukraine because corruption allowed Russia to manipulate Ukraine politically and economically. 

@Raiders22

  It is very concerning that this is taking as long as it is. I get the complexity and the need to be right but they sure need to speed it up some.

 The more that money is washed the harder it is to trace it. The people that set this up know this, hence the "it'll take 10 years to trace this" comment by one of the witnesses.

 I agree with you that the practice of nepotism & influence is rampant in corporations, & they generally get away with it. But the Biden's aren't brain surgeons & have leaked enough info to tie them in. IMO, DJ may have been involved before he even knew what was happening......... & then it was too late.

@THEMUGG

What you are describing is just reality with regards to politicians and high profile people in society. I thought the same thing with the previous guy in office that why was it taking so long and what is so complicated, why do things that seem so simple and cut and dry end up dying on the vine?

This dragging feet stuff is for sure not about Biden nor was it only about Trump or Hilary or JFK or Bill Clinton etc, its just the way politicians are insulated from the law in a way the common citizen is not.

 Biden has gone from "I never talked to my son about any biz deals" to "I was never involved in any of my son's biz dealings" to "I never met with any of my son's biz partners" to "I never accepted any money from any of my son's biz's"....... to "It was a loan repayment!".

 It's good that the impeachment inquiry is proceeding.

They’re ALL as crooked as Peyronie’s disease and that’s why it hurts so much when we get fucked over 

@THEMUGG

 I read somewhere that he is now saying he does not even know his son and has never met him.