Bidenomics = 20.00 McDonald's Adult Happy Meal

@thirdperson

 true ! 

The debt is already discounted if you count the fact that it is not being paid back...

In theory what you are stating makes logical sense, but that may be the viewpoint of how a consumer looks at it...this is a nation's debt and is looked at differently....

the debt is sometimes comical because if at any time either want to call the debt they could and that would trigger a whole slew of unfortunate events for all parties...it's the reason it's never really called like it may be for you and I, the normal consumer....it's a toy that is tinkered with IMO...does it hold value, yes...is it concerning, yes...will it ever be paid back in its entirety, no...is it a carrot dangled, yes...it's more of a mirage that everyone knows exists, but if ever called against the typical payback that would make the world spin just a bit faster and may throw it off its axis....

It's about as clear as mud....which I believe is its intentions... 

@wallstreetcappers

 kinda what I figured  

Someone mentioned charts so I thought I'd at least post a couple related to the topic at hand....but yes, largely ignored but hey, if I can only help one person a day then I'm doing better than most in this world.... 

On the debt to gdp sustainability topic, all one has to do is look at Japan and what they have done for the past 20+ years....

The great news is, it looks like Trump will be able to show what he can do as the 47th President and fix the Nation again. I know many are excited for him to correct the current horror show of wars, economy, inflation, energy costs, border and so many other issues Joe screwed up.

It will be very difficult this time for Trump but I think he can pull it off.

Go America!

@kcblitzkrieg

 Japan is a great example and their central bank is super supportive just like the FED is, they are not really a pure true capitalist economy like the US is but close enough. Their central bank has been the largest owner of their debt for a long time and their social situation is much worse than the US. I dont think we are even in the ballpark that Japan is or even worst. I think the FED would take great steps to make sure the USG keeps it together IF that happened.

People need to quit following guys like Schiff who are gold biased doods who have been pushing their agenda for multiple decades and shade information to form a narrative. I dont like debt either but we are speaking about reality not what we would prefer.

@dubz4dummyz

Did Joe/ukraine not initiate ukraine with the whole nato thing? Plus Nordstream incident?

I thought putin said many times he didn't want nato on his border and gave tons of warning

Don't let anyone fool you Dubz, Ukraine may make their "own" decisions but NATO is different story....NATO doesn't tie their shoes unless the USA tells them its OK.   Ukraine wanted into NATO, the US backed that and made NO effort to make Russia feel any better about it not happening. 

This is what the current US regime WANTED.  They laid the groundwork for this in 2014 with the CIA led coup but their timeline was disrupted when Killary did not win the 2016 POTUS, which is why they had to wait until 2021 for Zelensky to instigate the Special Military Operation that Russia is currently conducting.  Now the Country is destroyed, the young male population completely decimated.....all those lives wasted, for what exactly????  There will be a peace treaty eventually where the currently occupied Russian territory in Eastern Ukraine becomes Russian just as Crimea did.  Kiev and the rest of the Central and Western portions of Country stay Ukraine.....BlackRock comes in and rebuilds with hundreds of billions.....the final step then complete in the World's greatest money laundering operation of the past half decade...  

Lots of good info and past prognostications in this educational thread here.... https://www.covers.com/forum/politics-87/ukrainewhat39s-the-next-step-103616945

@kcblitzkrieg

If you look at that in the strictest sense and ask it like that it would seem that $7-$8T is a lot of money — and it is.  However, if you look at it as a portion of $32-$33T, then it is not as dire of a situation.

As an economist the question would always be is it a concern, comparatively speaking, to the size of the overall USA economy?

When you look at it that way it is not as concerning.  Defaulting became the question before.

When China became the #1 foreign holder of USA debt the folks began to ask this question.  But now China has not been purchasing as many of the Treasuries and now Japan is back at #1.

Before debt has been rescheduled before defaulting to the USA and certainly the USA has ‘forgiven’ debt to some poorer countries.

So, could the converse happen to a degree?  The short answer is:  possibly.

I think politicians, and certainly Yellen, over-exaggerate the issue with increasing the debt-ceiling each time.  But they each have their own reasons for doing so.  I just disagree with them and am very much on the side of getting the debt under control for the USA.  Because it is still the world economic leader and should act more appropriately.

Somewhere along about 2010 the question started to be raised about what would happen if China were to quit purchasing the Treasuries, etc.  At the time they had somewhere around 10% — I cannot recall if that included HK as well.

Of course now China owns less than 3% of USA debt and Japan has a bit more than that.

So, while the USA governments are the largest holder of the debt — around $20T, that is where the true concern should be focused on.

But even when the rating goes down for the USA — they still find buyers.  This is for a very good reason — the USA is still the world’s economic leader.  So finding buyers has not been a problem at all.  No economist thinks it could be a problem in the near future.

But as @wallstreetcappers points out — if that does become a problem, the world as a whole will have much bigger problems to worry about.  We could be out in the streets fighting for food.

But for now, the reality is seen as a much better picture than the worrisome rhetoric you hear from the outlets.

The teacher's motto:  if I can help just one child to make a difference...

@Raiders22

There will come an historic point in time that it won't be how many worthless dollar bills you have but how many ounces of precious metals you have. That day is coming!

Some of those points are touched on in here:

https://us.yahoo.com/finance/news/america-debt-problem-storing-trouble-161948561.html

The high and rising level of US government debt risks driving up borrowing costs around the world and undermining global financial stability, the International Monetary Fund has warned.

The IMF said Wednesday that increased government spending, growing public debt and elevated interest rates in the United States had contributed to high and volatile yields — or interest rates — on Treasuries, raising the risk of higher rates elsewhere.

“Loose fiscal policy in the United States exerts upward pressure on global interest rates and the dollar,” Vitor Gaspar, director of the IMF’s fiscal affairs department, told reporters. “It pushes up funding costs in the rest of the world, thereby exacerbating existing fragilities and risks.”

It’s the second time this week the IMF has fired a shot across the bows of the US government. On Tuesday, it said public spending and borrowing was contributing to an overheating of the US economy, making it harder for the Federal Reserve to defeat inflation.

Higher interest rates make it more costly for households and businesses to service their loans, which can lead to defaults that cause losses at banks and other lenders, increasing financial instability.

There are risks for the United States too. According to the IMF, investors are demanding higher returns to hold US Treasuries, reflecting their concerns over sustained inflation, the uncertain future path of monetary policy and additional debt issuance in the world’s biggest economy.

The US government’s interest costs on a common measure soared to $659 billion in fiscal year 2023, which ended on September 30, according to the Treasury Department. That’s nearly double what it was in fiscal year 2020.

And according to the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget, a non-profit, in fiscal year 2023, the government spent more to service its debt than it did on each of housing, transport and higher education.

The IMF expects US public debt to continue rising, helping drive government debt worldwide to close to 100% of global gross domestic product by 2029, from 93% last year.

Ya this was what I got outta it thru the minimal news I see

Wall brings up a decent point that ukraine wanting in is there own stupid fault...but at the same time the US should have said no...

Crazy how much money has been thrown at ukraine

Also assuming defense production has ramped up, which might be good for the economy or at least for the defense companies 

Ukraine would never happened under Trump. When Putin made the move to the border, Joe had no answer and waited for it to escalate. When you have a lead-from-behind President, this is what happens every time.

@witswits

 You cant throw out responses like that and expect to be taken seriously. Trump would have done what differently? What in his term did he face that you can give an example that HE handled things in a completely different way with a different outcome? You cant so why say it? Trump has ZERO military experience or expertise he has no background or ability to make tactical military decisions.

We do not own Ukraine or Israel, you cant keep saying Trump would do XYZ when he never did what you claim. All you are doing is partisan mud slinging with no reasoning or reality to back it up. Saying Trump would do this or that means zippo unless you have specific and very similar examples to make such a claim.

@wallstreetcappers

Trump would react before Putin started moving troops to the Ukraine border or had they started moving troops,  the negations would have stopped this horror Biden allowed.

Same with Oct. 7th as Iran was given BILLIONS and BILLIONS by Biden to fund the terror, buy bombs and help all these anti-Israel terror groups. Trump had Iran poor and scared to even think what would happen, if they made a stupid move like they did. Ask Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi how that worked out. 

Cannot believe all do not see the weakness in what we have. Every terror group is embolden with Biden in office as they know his "Don't" policy is only a word and nothing more.

 Nov. 5th only 201 days away. Please hurry as the US cannot take much more of this mess.

Partisan mud slinging...my new phrase here in the office

Sara took the last glazed donut because she was partisan mud slinging towards the apple fritter

Chris used the last ream of paper and didn't say anything because he was partisan mud slinging about the trees in the forest

Leslie said she was not coming to the pot luck due to her partisan mud slinging because Sara ate the last glazed donut and Chris is not courteous about the rest of us that need paper for our mache projects...

So nice...that phrase really sets in nicely to an office environment...

Trump would have NEVER encouraged Zelensky to shutdown Russian television like Biden obviously did. Trump would have NEVER told Ukraine we wanted them to join NATO. Trump would have stepped in to avoid this conflict and there were month after month of chances to resolve these issues. Zelensky would not have took the stand he did without Biden's assurance he had his back.

Amazing how restoring aid to hostile countries create war. What, they're not our friends???.......while we hang gay flags on the Whitehouse. What the hell do you think these old school islamics think of us? How about Satan himself. You can't buy these people like the voters you buy here.

Good thing we have Trump's Abraham Accord that united several Arab countries to track those Iranian missiles. 

@ABooksNightmare

 If that is your reply please refrain from making it. You are crossing the line and if you are not adding value then just move along.

@UNIMAN

 You have no reference to your claim...what you THINK Trump might do is not what he ever did...so how can you make a claim based on what you THINK he would do? Trump was never faced with these situations...blame or not that is not the point and please do not quote me that because Trump was taken seriously blah blah blah that is rhetoric and you have no grounds for making that claim.

You cant know what he would do, he has no experience or background with foreign affairs or the military so please either reference SIMILAR examples or just leave it. What you THINK he would do, what he SAYS he would do is meaningless and guess what, it does not matter how big his social media mouth is, that does not mean it is a deterrence or that it would make an impact.

@UNIMAN

Biden funded Iran and Iran is now able to fund the terror to many proxies. So they can spin it any way they want, but the facts are the facts. Trump made sure they did not have the money to fund terror so, Iran was not able to fund terror.

Pesky facts always get in the way. Trump puts the people in place that gets the job done or he fires them. Has Joe Biden ever fired anyone for the Afghanistan fiasco or for any reason? Hard to imagine Trump leaving many of the top Generals in with all the wars going on.

@witswits

 Pesky facts?

So the US and GOP presidents never had a variety of agendas towards our allies and enemies? We do not have to hate and invade Iran as the only way we interact with them and since we are trying to guide them away from nukes the approach might be exactly what the leadership did. It cant be either destruction or nothing, over the decades we have tried to work with Russia and China even though we were also at odds with them in many ways.

Give a terrorist Country billions and you get terror funded. Keep them poor and they do not fund all the terror. Not really sure what is so hard to understand as the prior administration had none of this going on and they did not appease a country that chants "death to America".

Baghdadi being eliminated sent the message that it is not allowed on Trumps watch. He did not say "Don't", Trump said "your fired" and eliminated the leader that killed many Americans.

Very simple pesky facts.

@wallstreetcappers

 We do not have to hate and invade Iran as the only way we interact with them

Who is advocating for this?  Or is this some hyperbole for a reason?

over the decades we have tried to work with Russia and China even though we were also at odds with them in many ways.

There are very key differences in all three of these situations and most analysts agree the radical factor is far greater with Iran than the other reasons with Russia and China.  That is what is worrisome to a lot of them.  They have been pretty open in their potential goals and have not denied some of the accusations against them.

All global differences and possible conflicts cannot be handled identically.  There are simply many variables.

Foreignpolicy wrote about this exact thing sometime early last year.  This was well before all of this latest stuff started up.  Of course, some of their concern at the time was the China connection with Tehran now and then their deal with Riyadh and even Turkey.  

You can go back to 2019 when there was concern of their irrational actions when they were attacking the oil tankers.  I know there may not be as much concern in the USA, maybe because of the distance factor, but the whole MENA region is aware of their actions and question their ultimate intentions.  The threat or unpredictability is a very real concern here.  Of course, the USA has to be somewhat involved -- but to what extent and how?  But I have not heard of anyone saying to 'hate them or invade them' as the only two solutions.

But there are very good reasons to be wary and treat them differently than another country that 'is trying to get nukes'.

You can certainly go to any decent news outlet from the area and read about this.  I think in the USA it is only brought up when something has already happened or been threatened.

@Raiders22

 Can only imagine what a nuclear Iran looks like. I'd take the chanting of "Death to Israel" and Death to America" very serious. All the money we give to Iran and we are called the big Satan? 

Simple facts. Fund a terrorist Country and you fund terror.