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Carrier...from a Hoosier

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Posted: #76
Quote Originally Posted by ClubDirt:



the person who gets a couple of hundred dollars a month and just sits on his/her behind and does nothing when he/she could be working (i know this isn't that common but they do exist) really piss people off.  the corporations that get millions of dollars in welfare and do nothing to help people with the benefit or even worse, move operations out of the country don't seem to bother people at all, or nearly as much as the former situation.  that kind of mindset, i'll never understand. 

I'm no psychologist, but my theory on something like that has always been that it's way easier to focus negativity on a person...a face...a name....rather than an entity made up of lots of people.  People don't know how to be mad at a company that has lots of different people making decisions.  But they can picture a single individual with a name and face and get really worked up.

It's the same with people being mad at a President, and directing anger directly at a single person, rather than directing anger at Congress.  Congress has an abysmal approval rating.  Awful.  Has had a terrible approval rating for years, but lots of the same people keep getting elected over and over again, and there's not one face or name to get mad at.

Same in sports.  Team is doing bad?  Fans want to fire the coach.  It's a single person you can direct anger at.  Nobody says, "Our collective coaching staff, assistants and scouts are terrible, and we want them gone!!!"

I don't know if that's right or not, but that's my theory.  Lol.
 
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Posted: #77
Quote Originally Posted by alangrrbs:


I'm no psychologist, but my theory on something like that has always been that it's way easier to focus negativity on a person...a face...a name....rather than an entity made up of lots of people.  People don't know how to be mad at a company that has lots of different people making decisions.  But they can picture a single individual with a name and face and get really worked up.

It's the same with people being mad at a President, and directing anger directly at a single person, rather than directing anger at Congress.  Congress has an abysmal approval rating.  Awful.  Has had a terrible approval rating for years, but lots of the same people keep getting elected over and over again, and there's not one face or name to get mad at.

Same in sports.  Team is doing bad?  Fans want to fire the coach.  It's a single person you can direct anger at.  Nobody says, "Our collective coaching staff, assistants and scouts are terrible, and we want them gone!!!"

I don't know if that's right or not, but that's my theory.  Lol.


that makes sense but i'm not mad at the individual people or the companies (at least not for taking the welfare).  none of us is turning down money from the government if they are giving it to us or giving us a tax break. 

the blame lies with the government who sell themselves to the corporations at the expense of the people they represent.  and the blame also goes to people who are too dumb to understand what's going on or just hate those 'other people" so much as a result of their insecurities or whatever that they ignore what's going on and don't hold government accountable, or in many cases, they continue to support the government no matter how much they darn over people in favor of corporations or themselves.  we see this same mentality when police harass, shoot and kill people. 

people, and i think republicans are most guilty of this, love the government as long as they are friggin over those "other people" and telling them what they want to hear, no matter how ridiculous.
 
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Posted: #78
I’ve seen how quickly industries and cultures can change.  I’ve learned to adapt.  Lots of people around here haven’t and don’t want to.


To be fair, the main reason you've learned to adapt is because you are fortunate (and I stress the word fortunate because most of life is luck and people do not want to admit this) enough to work in an industry that allows you to adapt.


 
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Posted: #79
If you work in the IT sector, which once need a very well-respected degree in computer science, you are currently being outsourced to India where Millions wait for your job.

And the only reason they are sent there is because the Indian economy is so dilapidated in comparison to the US, they are willing to accept ashtray money as a wage.


The worker who is outsourced is just unlucky. Tell them to change? That's a bit much. They may have invested 30 years of their life in the profession and the rug was taken out from under them because a pennies on the dollar salary is available to be paid overseas.


It's quite disgusting.

Adapatation and change. Nice theme of life. True. BUT the reality is we are all striving to adapt and change to get to a point where we won't have to change...or adapt. And that is considered the comfortable life. And that's quite the conundrum. And the people of Carrier who just want to work want thus, just like everyone else.
 
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Posted: #80
Quote Originally Posted by ClubDirt:



the person who gets a couple of hundred dollars a month and just sits on his/her behind and does nothing when he/she could be working (i know this isn't that common but they do exist) really piss people off.  the corporations that get millions of dollars in welfare and do nothing to help people with the benefit or even worse, move operations out of the country don't seem to bother people at all, or nearly as much as the former situation.  that kind of mindset, i'll never understand. 

On top of this, highly paid corporate executives actually do the least work in a company by far. The hierarchy of a corporation ensures this. Most up in the elite sectors of a corporation and you will get rewarded MORE for less work. Just "manage" and be a company representative.


And therein lies the understanding of what you typed: 

People who gets hundreds a month in welfare and "don't work" (and that's a deeper topic about opportunity) piss people off because the people who are pissed off are not aiming to lower their social and economic status for those hundreds.

But they most certainly will aim to be an overpriced corporate executive who does little work and deference to the entire corporate structure and their place in society (that is, ignore corporate welfare) is perfectly in line with this.

They know it's occurring...and they ignore it because they believe they could have access to it one day.

Corruption is only wrong if the corrupt benefits are not accessible to you. Ask any politician this.


 
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Posted: #81
Wow. This is s great thread full of thoughtful, well-worded, and respectful post. Possibly a Covers first. I tip my cap to the OP and everyone who responded. I really have nothing to add that hasn't already been said.
TIME TO BRING BACK THE OBAMA CAGES!
 
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Posted: #82
damn, $7 million in corporate welfare doesn't buy what it used to. 


https://www.axios.com/carrier-moving-jobs-trump-vowed-to-save-to-mexico-2446291250.html
 
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Posted: #83
Quote Originally Posted by ClubDirt:

damn, $7 million in corporate welfare doesn't buy what it used to. 


https://www.axios.com/carrier-moving-jobs-trump-vowed-to-save-to-mexico-2446291250.html

Trump said he was a master negotiator.  He just didn't say who he would be negotiating for.  It's getting more and more obvious he's on the side of the big business as and the rich as Pres...and if that's the case.....he absolutely is a great negotiator.  He made this company $7 million dollars to just continue to do what they were already doing.  He got the state of Indiana to get their tax payers to pay $7 million out of their pockets to give to a big company to keep moving jobs to a country he insulted in the election. I gotta give him credit.  I feel bad for the people around here at Carrier who voted for him and got lied to.  But like they say...you play with fire....
 
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Posted: #84
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/22/trumps-carrier-jobs-deal-is-just-not-living-up-to-the-hype.html

Yup here it is as you said.
The proof is in the rancid pudding.
 
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Posted: #85
Quote Originally Posted by alangrrbs:


Trump said he was a master negotiator.  He just didn't say who he would be negotiating for.  It's getting more and more obvious he's on the side of the big business as and the rich as Pres...and if that's the case.....he absolutely is a great negotiator.  He made this company $7 million dollars to just continue to do what they were already doing.  He got the state of Indiana to get their tax payers to pay $7 million out of their pockets to give to a big company to keep moving jobs to a country he insulted in the election. I gotta give him credit.  I feel bad for the people around here at Carrier who voted for him and got lied to.  But like they say...you play with fire....


an interesting aspect of the article is that carrier is investing $16 million in automation.  of course, that isn't good for the workers and probably isn't what the taxpayers were hoping their $7 million would go towards but it is the natural progression of the economics of labor. 

i started a thread about it with some interesting articles in the gd section.  not too many people interested.  it's a complicated issue.  but i think people will start reading more about it. 
 
 
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Posted: #86

"Standing in front of the president-elect at Carrier during Trump’s first victory rally after the 2016 election, I realized that he was delivering a powerful message of hope not only to Carrier workers, but also to all working people in America: You finally have a president who will fight for the interests of ordinary workers, Trump seemed to say.

"A year later, we feel betrayed. Carrier has announced that more than 600 workers are being laid off, with the last line scheduled to work their final shift right after the holidays." –Chuck Jones

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