differance between dems and progresivies

You are 100% correct that ultimately it was Trump's decision and he is ultimately responsible for closing the economy.   His problem was receiving ( and following) advice from Fauci and Debra Birx, and their " bend the curve" bullshit.  It was Trump's biggest mistake as president  IMO, and the buck stops w him 

But I also agree w what UNIMAN has posted in this thread.  It is spot on and doesn't get talked about enough.   Our medical Federal Agencies failed us "" big time"",.... like the CDC.  I mean, c`mon for Christ's sake, the name of your responsibility is in your title  !!!!   CENTER FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION.   As Bill Billecik says, Do your ( f'n) job !!  You had one job, and had no idea how to respond when the pandemic hit.  UNACCEPTABLE  !! 

Last point, You say, trump acted like it was some kind of hoax at the beginning.... That's completely false.  If you remember,  Trump was "the" first leader to stop international flights from China when shit started hitting the fan, and yet took flak from the WHO and others that he was "fear mongering " and being " racist."  Truly despicable behavior.. 

Bingo !! 

@Rush51

 So 1st you say "the economy goes into a tailspin due to a Fauci induced government shutdown".Then you say (of course only after you are questioned about who was in charge of the country when it happened) that the buck stops with trump.So to clarify,who is responsible for the economy going into a tailspin and the government shutting down,trump or Fauci?

I see you never responded to my question in post 10 about all the people in your own party,and the people in his own administration who can't stand trump,are they also suffering from your imaginary tds?

And you talk about they spun it and you swallowed it.That's exactly what the explanation in the 2 sentences starting with "In context" is.It's someone trying to tell people what trump meant when he said the statement.It's their spin on it.

To deflect blame for his mismanagement, Trump attacks Fauci, Birx and Center for disease control.  In 2020, Trump was more concerned about presidential election than the pandemic.  So political interference undermined public health officials and mitigation efforts that could have prevented hundreds of thousands of covid deaths.  Congress report exposes Trump's reckless response to a pandemic that killed over a million Americans.   His administration failed to recognize magnitude of the threat and adequately prepare the US.  Nearly 40 countries imposed travel restrictions before the US.  World health organization is right that travel bans are ineffective in stopping virus spread.

Wife: Please don’t bring up politics at Thanksgiving this year

 Me after half a martini:

https://twitter.com/NewsFinOil/status/1726604273264611576 

So to clarify,who is responsible for the economy going into a tailspin and the government shutting down,trump or Fauci?

I already told you Trump was ultimately responsible for closing the economy.  It was his "decision".  He made the mistake of listening to Birx and Fauci.  He was heavily "influenced" by their voices, to this country's detriment.  I think we can make the argument that if Fauci and Birx weren't there, Trump wouldn't have been pressured or "induced" to make the decision to close the economy.  But now we are just arguing semantics. 

Trump closed the economy. He is ultimately "responsible". 

Fauci "induced" this decision on Trump. 

BOTH CAN BE TRUE.  So, stop being a dick.  You like to argue even when I agree with you on a point.    

I see you never responded to my question in post 10 about all the people in your own party,and the people in his own administration who can't stand trump,are they also suffering from your imaginary tds?

I see what Trump did during his 4 years, while being berated by the press and Dems, 2 impeachments, a Mueller investigation.   Perhaps most successfully that I am thankful, the 2017 Tax Cuts & Jobs Act !   

And I could care less about the internal strife within his Administration and all the people that now hate/disrespect him.  You have to remember that Trump IMHO approached his presidency like a CEO of the country.  Perhaps those that didn't perform to his expectation (and quickly) were shown the door, or perhaps berated openly in meetings.  We don't really know, but I could see this .   You don't get to be a successful real estate investor by being a panzy ass..     And on that note, we need more people in public office today that had managerial/CEO experience from the Private Sector.  Joe is a perfect example of the ineptitude that exists from a "career politician." 

All we know is that Trump delivered to the American People in his first 3 years, while in the throes (as every leader was) from the pandemic.  He was respected by both our friends & adversaries, and I am sorry to say the same can't be mentioned today, under Joe.  

Say it with me MrWhatsItToYa, Trump 2024.   It's OK to reflect back , realize your previous misgivings about Trump were incorrect, and change your mind.  

@Rush51

Say it with me MrWhatsItToYa, Trump 2024.   It's OK to reflect back , realize your previous misgivings about Trump were incorrect, and change your mind. 

The meltdown in 2024 if the Big Bad Orange Man wins is going to absolutely epic.... I will be here for it in all of its historical glory   

*while in the throes "" In His Final Year "  from the pandemic.

Yes, Sir !!  

@thirdperson

1.He made the mistake of listening to Birx and Fauci.

2.He was heavily influenced by their voices.

3.I think we can make the argument that if Fauci and Birx weren't there,trump wouldn't have been pressured or "induced" to make the decision to close the economy.

Boy,to me it sure sounds like you are still trying to cover for him,and throw it all back on Fauci and Birx.But that's just the semantics of it,right?

You say both can be true.And i agree,that's why when you JUST mentioned Fauci being responsible in your post #13,and never mentioned that trump is the 1 who did it.I thought I'd bring it to your attention.I'm not trying to be a dick,and i don't like arguing.I was just looking to set the record straight,so then you would have the right information moving forward in your future arguments.And look,now it seems we have agreed upon the "who dunnit".

On to the next part about if the other people from his admin and party who can't stand him,are also suffering from your imaginary TDS.Little helpful hint,if you are trying to discuss if someone is also suffering from TDS.You might want to at least mention TDS in your response,16 lines of mush mouth you write out.And not once do you even mention TDS.I guess from your response,we can gather how real TDS is,it's as non-existent as it is in your response.

Then you say,"You don't get to be a successful real estate investor by being a panzy ass.In trumps case it's.You do get to be a successful real estate investor by being a panzy ass,who inherited half a billion dollars from your dad.

And no he was not respected by both our friends and adversaries.He was almost laughed off the stage by other world leaders,at the UN general assembly,nice try though.

If you wanna take another whack at answering if the other people also suffer from TDS,you are more then welcome.

"In context, Trump did not say in the passage above that the virus itself was a hoax. He instead said that Democrats' criticism of his administration's response to it was a hoax."

The above is Snopes.com own words, not mine. Not MY world, the REAL world. 

@MrWhatsItToYa

I'm sure you're of the belief that if Trump didn't shut down the economy, untold "millions" more lives would've been lost due to COVID.  Ya know, like all the other lefties on this site?  

You can't have it both ways.  

It was Trump who shut down the economy and he is ultimately responsible, but you act as though he did something different from any other "large" economy at the time.  Almost all other "large"  developed economies did the same thing.  So, yeah, stop being a dick on the subject.   

And no he was not respected by both our friends and adversaries.He was almost laughed off the stage by other world leaders,at the UN general assembly,nice try though.

Russia and Iran.  What is going on in those 2 countries, today ?    Do you really think war would've broken out in either situation if Trump was president?     Dipshit Joe is actually "sending $$"  to Iran.  Trump "applied sanctions."  

You really need to Pay more attention to current events.  There is still time to wisen up before 2024 elections .    

So if it’s the CDC’s job to prevent disease, and Trump and the GOP slashed their funding and overseas operatives, then it’s Trump’s fault for the CDC’s fumbling. After all, there was plenty of coverage of that in 2017 and longtime Republicans even thought this was a piss poor long-term strategy. Guess what - it was! As you said, the buck stops with Trump again on that.

You are 100% wrong about Trump stopping international flights. Nope, he only stopped flights from China.

How do I know? My local hospital got the first family of Covid patients for our area because they flew back to the states with Covid from their ski vacation in Italy. Flew right in and brought it right into my backyard. Thanks Donald! Your hare-brained schemes didn’t stop shit.

Also, let’s not pretend that Trump didn’t downplay the severity of the virus that I first heard about on NPR and ABC News in January 2020. Trump knew about it then but ignored it.

Then later, he stupidly gave a bunch of incriminating interviews to Bob Woodward where he admits that he downplayed the virus and hid information about masks. He knew masks worked early on. There are literally recordings of this. 

Trump screwed himself with his own idiocy. He has nobody but to blame but himself.

Lastly, the most important job of the government is to protect its citizens from the threat of imminent death or injury. I expect the government to do that, you know, how our government did exactly that for 40 years before that with a better-funded CDC. Any candidate who shows malice or apathy to the death of its citizens does not get my vote. Trump will never get my vote after fanning the flames of the biggest health crisis in a century.

Counter factuals are impossible to prove.  Global events usually don't depend on who is occupying the white house.  Other things have more to do with what is happening in foreign conflicts beyond US control.  US didn't invade Ukraine or attack Israel.  Instead Biden has responded well by successfully defending democracy in other countries.  Unlike some other presidents in the past.  But under estimated Biden often doesn't get the credits that he deserves.

I just love these kind of posts. 

First of all throwing more money at the CDC and NIH doesn't solve problems. Money from the NIH was already going to Wuhan to play with bat coronavirus, let's give'em more money. 

Trump halted flights from China but the virus was way ahead of everybody as Wahun was locked down yet all the international flights out were allowed. Same as Joe blocking flights from Africa as Africans crossed our Southern border. Thanks Joe your hairbrained scheme didn't stop Omicron. And in fact no effort was made to prevent Delta either. AND THEY KNEW IT GOT PAST THE VACCINE. And of course more Americans died of COVID under Joe even though he had those great mask mandates and the vaccine. So if your mad Trump didn't stop the virus from reaching the U.S. then you should be pissed Joe didn't stop Delta or Omicron, basically two new emerging viruses. And as Joe allowed Delta to infect the U.S., starting in the border state of Texas for both strains, Joe said get vaccinated and you won't even get COVID! How many vaccinated died because Joe said that? They felt bulletproof.

And speaking of masks. They don't do much. I personally researched the mandated states of California, Oregon, Washington, Illinois, and New York. Their averages of infection were above the national average at those times. Other than large aerosols not that much they do other than provide a placebo effect

The US under Biden encouraged Ukraine. Zelensky shutdown Russian speaking television stations the day after talking to Biden. To win over voters Biden called Putin a murder who had no soul. No chance of resolving the Ukraine issue with stupid rhetoric like that! Then Joe sends mixed signals OKing the Nordstream II giving Russia a cashcow while hurting Germany's security. 

Joe ok'd millions to UNRWA who taught children to murder j-e-ws. Trump had cancelled the funding, Joe OK'd Iran's billions on 9/11 of all days. One month later Iran backed Hamas attacks. 

We threw the gasoline but didn't provide the spark!!!

If I was President and a new virus just reached our shores and right from the get go toilet paper jumps off the shelves and democrats use the event to instill panic, I too would try to;

--calm the people.

--come up with the best solution for those vulnerable. A fast tracked vaccine.

If you apply a little bit of reasoning and understand history, we can "infer"   that war likely doesn't break today if Trump was president today (For starters,.. this wasn't happening "during" his time in office). 

It's not by coincidence that Russia has been most aggressive with Ukraine under 'weak' democrat presidencies that didn't hold their word (O'bama and his "red lines" in Syria), and (Biden w/ a disastrous exit from Afghanistan).   But this is just the tip of the iceberg in their weak mindedness...    Weakness  is not respected (and why would it be) when you're talking about our adversaries, and it emanates ""in all its glory""  under these 2 bozos of a president...  Adversaries take full advantage of Weakness, and are doing so today with 2 wars opened up in less than 3 years !!! 

Now, let me ask the question again... Do you really think this ""global chaos"" takes placer under Trump.  Not likely.. Again, It didn't happen in his ""first"" 4 years in office.   Apply a little reasoning to the argument.    

Nailed it. To build on your point, but it’s awfully rich of MAGAs to whine about how Covid wasn’t Trump’s problem and he handled it perfectly, but then whine that Biden didn’t stop countries 7,000 miles away from attacking each other. 

Defunding CDC and destroying international programs aimed at stopping deadly diseases before they start is exactly what stopped viruses like Ebola and Bird flu from killing millions. While your post clearly ignores decades of successful bipartisan policy, that’s not the worst part of your post.

Perhaps the dumbest, most idiotic part of your post is that I was replying to:

a MAGA

who said

its the CDC’s job

to prevent deadly viruses from spreading.

Had to use extra spaces and bold font to spell it out for you, because obviously your reading comprehension skills are