Grandma Vodka joins in the blame

Wall, like ALL Socialists', don't understand FACTS.  "Communists'....err....Dems, didn't mandate anything".  That's a knee slapper right there.

@Raiders22

 Well you are entitled to your opinion and as I have stated without the use of pocket pundits and experts that this congress and government weighting is almost spot on 50/50 so where was the 50% TNC/GOP side rejecting and opposing these mandates? And what happened on Trump's dime, or are you just skirting the parts of history that do not fit your narrative?

Both sides made mutual decisions, the suggestions of mask and vacs were just that...people never lost free choice even if that choice might have impacts. I never got the vac and others here did not. You can take an event and shift it in any direction you want, so you choose to pick pieces that fit your narrative and ignore those that do not. I am not blaming Trump or the TNC for what happened, YOU on the other hand are doing exactly that. I am saying given that our government is almost dead square even in the political distribution your contention is just silly, using pocket pundits or not.

@wallstreetcappers

 Well you are entitled to your opinion

Not opinion; just facts.

Everyone is not just entitled to them; but, they are obligated to them.

Maybe you should use some experts since your opinion does not align with the facts.

If you want to see the divisiveness -- simply go back and look at the vitriol from the Left when Trump left the lockdowns up to the states.

@wallstreetcappers

 people never lost free choice even if that choice might have impacts

This is completely wrong.  They were kicked out of the military and lost their jobs and could not go to university.

It is a copout to try to say that they could simply lose their job, get kicked out of the military, or not get educated -- just to claim they still had freedom.

This is simply factual and not even open to discussion.  It happened.

@wallstreetcappers

 I am saying given that our government is almost dead square even in the political distribution your contention is just silly, using pocket pundits or not.

No sir.  It is silly to stick to a narrative that was a disaster.

Then to try to bring in other folks that did not support it and claim that they did is delusional and disingenuous to do.

You do not need your pocket pundits to show you this; this was very recent history and not ancient history.

No need to distort it -- just OWN it.

@THEMUGG

 If you're just trying to get across 90, or get over to Bremerton, does it really matter if the guy driving the plow or captaining the ferry is vaxed or not?

To those in my age group, if Gavin is Zack Morris, Inslee is Screech. How do you feel about the new guy?

@BigGame90

  Couldn't agree with you more    You absolutely nailed it 

I COULD GET BEHIND THIS GUY

@Raiders22

 Well that didnt take you long, pull out those mystery pundits and experts so you can say your version of data and info is facts. You need better material than to be weak like this as a retort.

Oh contraire mujere, you need to comprehend the quote you made rather than stomp your feet at what IMPACTS means. Nobody lost their choices or option to follow or not. Impacts means there are costs and benefits associated with a decision. If people lost their jobs because they refused a corporate based mandate or government based mandate that is their choice. Just because a mandate might seem unfair or cruel as in this case, people still have the ability and option to decide.

There are corporate mandates every single day of the year, people have to follow codes, protocols and requirements..you act like this mandate is the only of its kind in society, people never lost the right and ability to choose.

I had a job in Philly years back and the company decided to move locations to consolidate several sites to one and for me that meant the mandate to either drive a much longer distance and pay a city wage tax and parking and gas and time or I could decide to leave, well I decided to leave and went and found a different job.

Not all that tough of a concept here.

@THEMUGG

 I understand the mandate, the point isnt if it is fair or reasonable as I described in my reply right above this one. The larger point which of course is completely brushed aside is that the government is not Biden it is not the DNC it is not every bad thing comes from the liberals, the government our elected officials are a dead square even almost totally 50/50 and there is very little in the current administration that is one sided in totality. There were corps that had the same things going on it was not just governments and the military, even still at no time were people forced without choice to follow either mandates. The choice was unfair and unfortunate but still people had the decision to make and nobody could force the decision.

@wallstreetcappers

  I understand, but the local politics of a state that has been dem-governed for decades is quite different than one that hasn't. The west coast, for whatever reason, has been steeped in liberalism to the point where they politicians don't pay any attention to what the populace wants.......only what they DEEM is good for them. It's like a game of chicken up here, being played in slow-mo.......the politicians are trying to see how far they can push it's citizens until they start leaving or revolting. WA is like a lot of states...... it's only blue in three big counties, maybe four.

@wallstreetcappers

What are you referring to?  I didn't mention anyone -- you did.

Maybe you should use them is all I said.  My memory is fine; I do not need them.  Apparently you do.

Au contrair.  That is silly semantics and a lazy excuse for logic.

Someone that cannot keep their small business open, or is kicked out of the military they wanted to make a career, or is not allowed to go to school -- all because the mandate has come down to take an experimental shot.

None of that takes away from you apparently not understanding the quote you posted.  They DID pus mandates and it was the Democrats that did it.

Whether one chooses to 'follow' the mandate or not -- it is still a mandate.

Sure, they can all go live off of the land in the bush.

@wallstreetcappers

 DEMS didnt mandate anything

and

 I understand the mandate

So, they didn't mandate anything BUT you do understand the mandate.

Alrighty then...

@Raiders22

 You are entitled to your opinion on the events, your pocket experts are as well and the other side and their experts are as well its all a matter of perspective and you lean on experts to validate your view, the experts and pundits that you decide are of value and that makes it FACT. Ok well you are swimming with that and keep going doing whatever makes you happy.

When you suggest all or none as the fact then you lose the argument, I dont care if you say you have 100 pocket experts that like you and feel the same as you, I dont give two craps about your experts and what you deem as facts. Our political process is almost squarely 50/50 there is no draconian liberal full blame fact that you can claim, there is literally nothing on a federal scale that is all from one party with no involvement from the other or influence. So throw your weight around all you like the real facts are in the USA there is no single source blame for nearly anything. I do not blame Trump and his clan for the issue and I do not blame the DNC either, I do not blame the TNC senators or congress members no more than I blame the DNC ones. You are fixated on partisan narratives and actually laughably think that it exists because you have drummed up some partisan similar experts that share you view. Thats super cute...

@THEMUGG

 I can understand that perspective, it is not fully all or none even in Washington but there are for sure correlations for different states and the demographics. I have to say that using your same observations there are several states I would NEVER live in for similar reasons you have and the nice thing is as citizens we can live wherever we want so if you like the RNC/TNC style states there are plenty of those and if someone likes a stronger DNC state there are those too and then there are balanced more moderate states that exist where you do not have to live in the extremes. That is the kind of state I consider Arizona for the MOST part, especially thankfully for the influence of people that retire here from say Canada or California it gives a blend of political views and makes more balance than say existed in the past. I dont like extremes in either direction and I would not live in Washington because of the dreary weather and all the rain. My direct neighbor across the street grew up in Washington and she left there 25 years ago and says she will never go back to live, just to visit but not live...and she is a DEM so it isnt political its the dreary overcast gloomy weather that exists there so much. Arizona has 5 months of horrid heat and at times I have considered going north for those months but I need more in the bank before I could do that.

@BigfootIsThere

 Wall, like ALL Socialists', don't understand FACTS.  "Communists'....err....Dems, didn't mandate anything".  That's a knee slapper right there.

I understand what you are saying and even agree, mostly.  But in their defense, even a lot of the Right will spin numbers.

But the Left has been doing this revisionist stuff the last few years, in general.  The last couple they have decided to do it with the pandemic as well.

That is the issue I have with it.  There is no accepting of having bad policies regarding the pandemic concerning masks/lockdown mandates, closing businesses, paying folks to stay home, keeping kids from school, dumping money into the economy, etc.

They also refuse to acknowledge when they do not work.  For example, when the masks were shown to not be effective.  What did they do?  They doubled down and said to wear two masks and to wear them outside.  

Then when things do not go as planned, they refuse to accept blame alone -- they insist on including everyone and acting as if they all were in on it.

You saw this when the 'vaccines' were shown to be far less effective on later strains.  They started talking about how Trump raved about it, even though he was not the one mandating everyone get it.

They refuse to take the blame alone for their bad energy policies.  They insist on trying to spread the blame onto everyone.  The same with the bad economic policies.  they try to say they were all 'bipartisan' so everyone agreed they were needed.

Then any dissenting views, concerns -- or even, evidence -- is suppressed or scorned.  This is worsened by the fact that the Left and the Mass Media are not alone now in doing it.

Now you have the social media outlets and internet sites that censored at worst or made it difficult to find at best any opposing views.

No Republican politician set up hotlines to reward snitching -- that was all Democrats.

Take any questioning voices and see what happens.  For example, you can make the case that Palin has been shown to be right -- not once, but twice, now on Russia.

Then when she questioned, 'at what point is this more about control than safety' about the mandates -- what happened?  They did not hear her with any concerns because they hate her.

Then when you see someone like Rand Paul (who at least has a medical background and understands data and studies) question what is going on -- they blast him as well.  Because they hate him.

They also did not like that Trump did not make a national mandate instead of leaving it up to the states.  Because they hate him.

Then when DeSantis does not jump all over the lockdowns with both feet -- they attack him.  Because they hate him.

@BigfootIsThere

So, when you refuse to accept blame for your bad policies and that they did not work as intended -- you should not get the choice of saying everyone was on board; everyone was not on board.

This is the same sentiment the Left says about everything in a revisionist way now.

They claim Communism and Socialism have not been tried well enough and that is why it has never worked.

There are folks on the Left that still insist the Great Depression was prolonged because the government did not spend enough.  They are now saying the same thing about the pandemic and the economy -- that the government should have put even more money into it.  As if $6T is not enough.

I get that some people refuse to be swayed by facts and data.  My issue is the rewriting of history to defend poor policies and trying to included even dissenting voices.

So, now will they learn from history?  No.  They have shown they will only double down.  What happens in the 2028 Pandemic?  Same policies but worse.  You have to be able to accept blame, acknowledge when you have been wrong and learn from history.

@wallstreetcappers

 When you suggest all or none as the fact then you lose the argument, I dont care if you say you have 100 pocket experts

Who are you talking about?  No one said this but me.  I did not quote anyone to show you that you were wrong, yet again.

I am talking about what happened and simply pointing out you were incorrect and that the Democrats did install mandates.

So, again you lose the argument because you were wrong.

@wallstreetcappers

 There's no perfect place to live, weather-wise or politically. The PNW, for 4-5 months a year, is tough to beat.......for weather. If the politicians would stop trying to be the end-all be-all, it would be a much better place to live. They just don't get it. In Seattle, they're pushing for $20 min wage.....it's not there yet but while it's creeping up biz's are closing. Some people don't mind paying $25 for breakfast or lunch, but most won't, at least not often enough to float a restaurant. The snowball effect is higher rent, higher home prices.....higher everything. The bottom line is, after the reset, $20/hr. won't be shit because everything else will have gone up proportionately. Why do you think Boeing workers were pushing for a 40% wage increase?

@wallstreetcappers

I think the DNC as a party has not changed their approach or their appeal

@Raiders22

You may see the DNC as not changing their views.  But everyone that has come out has been saying they have.  

@StumpTownStu

You do realize that why you may have a difference in opinion, it is still just that. Your opinion. Whether their approach has changed notwithstanding, appeal is subjective. And one has to acknowledge the possible loss of appeal, based on drop in support amongst key, traditionally liberal demographics.

“If the rule you followed brought you to this, of what use was the rule?”  

My opinion is many of the mandates during covid never would have happened if Trump never existed.

Trump really wasn't in favor of masks, masks it is! Trump not in favor of lockdowns, lock it all down. Delta Virus showed the vaccine was not very effective, double-down, you won't even get covid! 

It all became political, along with Trump hatred, and science thrown out the window. And the censorship to anything that might make Trump views look correct. 

When it was abundently obvious that Delta was infecting and killing the vaccinated why were the vaccinated allowed free pass to large events without recent testing?? Does anyone remember the Texas dems flying to DC and were infected? Or Whitmers Mackinaw Island gov conference that many vaxed were infected? 

To this day where are the CDC numbers of the fully vaccinated who died from covid? 

And I'm not saying Trump was brilliant by any stretch. Your only as good as the information provided to you. 

It's the "common sense" thing that really is not so common.

Common sense said if the UK has the fully vaxed 40% of hospitalizations then allowing the vaxed a free pass to large events not a good idea.

Common sense says if studies show that 30% of the wild deer in my area have covid anti-bodies maybe social distancing not much of a help and obviously we do not really understand virus spread.

@kcblitzkrieg

 You may see the DNC as not changing their views.  But everyone that has come out has been saying they have.  

What have they changed their views on?

Who came out on what and what did they say?