Monday, a day after a gunman opened fire inside an Indiana shopping mall before being fatally shot by an armed bystander.
The shooter, identified as Jonathan Douglas Sapirman, 20, of Greenwood, Indiana, killed three people and injured two in the food court at the Greenwood Park Mall on Sunday before closing time, police said.
He was killed by Elisjsha Dicken, 22, of Seymour, Indiana, a mall patron who was legally carrying a gun, according to authorities.
Must of thought it was a gun free zone....
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To remove first post, remove entire topic.
An active shooter was killed.
Monday, a day after a gunman opened fire inside an Indiana shopping mall before being fatally shot by an armed bystander.
The shooter, identified as Jonathan Douglas Sapirman, 20, of Greenwood, Indiana, killed three people and injured two in the food court at the Greenwood Park Mall on Sunday before closing time, police said.
He was killed by Elisjsha Dicken, 22, of Seymour, Indiana, a mall patron who was legally carrying a gun, according to authorities.
The armed bystander, who shot and killed the Greenwood Park Mall mass shooter, was identified as Elisjsha Dicken. He did not have a permit for the gun, but was carrying legally under Indiana's new "Constitutional Carry" law.
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The armed bystander, who shot and killed the Greenwood Park Mall mass shooter, was identified as Elisjsha Dicken. He did not have a permit for the gun, but was carrying legally under Indiana's new "Constitutional Carry" law.
From 2000 to 2021, under 3% of 433 mass shooters have been stopped by a civilian with a gun according to Texas state university study. Far more common for bystanders without guns to stop attacks or for police to kill mass shooters. It would be a mistake to think armed civilians can be relied on to regularly stop mass shootings.
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From 2000 to 2021, under 3% of 433 mass shooters have been stopped by a civilian with a gun according to Texas state university study. Far more common for bystanders without guns to stop attacks or for police to kill mass shooters. It would be a mistake to think armed civilians can be relied on to regularly stop mass shootings.
GVPedia and Washington post rate false the claim that 98% of mass shootings happen in gun free zones. Everytown for gun safety found 10% of mass shootings occur in gun free zones. The claim that gun free zones attract mass shooters doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
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Quote Originally Posted by nature1970:
Most mass shootings happen in gun free zones.
GVPedia and Washington post rate false the claim that 98% of mass shootings happen in gun free zones. Everytown for gun safety found 10% of mass shootings occur in gun free zones. The claim that gun free zones attract mass shooters doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
Quote Originally Posted by DrStrangelove: I don't know who needs to hear this, but it's STILL the fuking guns.. Unless it's someone trying to protect neighborhood like Kyle Rittenhouse, then it's the Person with the gun.. Thats your thought right?
The Second Amendment has nothing to do with Kyle Rittenhouse carrying around a military assault weapon in a neighborhood to protect other citizens, and that's why every court challenge has ruled that. Unfortunately the Second Amendment isn't absolute, as we've seen in recent Supreme Court gun rulings on guns. The Court has basically given the NRA the right to challenge every gun-carrying restriction. Imagine guns being allowed at crowded sporting events and on airplanes based on constitutional grounds. That is where we are headed. This kind of wild west nonsense will shut people down by the thought of any exchange or challenge that could turn into a "stand your ground" moment of murder. Remember, all you have to do is prove that you "felt" threatened and you're safe to open fire. This country has gone mad over guns. And it will lead to our downfall..
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Quote Originally Posted by Sox14:
Quote Originally Posted by DrStrangelove: I don't know who needs to hear this, but it's STILL the fuking guns.. Unless it's someone trying to protect neighborhood like Kyle Rittenhouse, then it's the Person with the gun.. Thats your thought right?
The Second Amendment has nothing to do with Kyle Rittenhouse carrying around a military assault weapon in a neighborhood to protect other citizens, and that's why every court challenge has ruled that. Unfortunately the Second Amendment isn't absolute, as we've seen in recent Supreme Court gun rulings on guns. The Court has basically given the NRA the right to challenge every gun-carrying restriction. Imagine guns being allowed at crowded sporting events and on airplanes based on constitutional grounds. That is where we are headed. This kind of wild west nonsense will shut people down by the thought of any exchange or challenge that could turn into a "stand your ground" moment of murder. Remember, all you have to do is prove that you "felt" threatened and you're safe to open fire. This country has gone mad over guns. And it will lead to our downfall..
Quote Originally Posted by DrStrangelove: Remember, all you have to do is prove that you "felt" threatened and you're safe to open fire. Source?
Why do you need a source, can't you google? There's been over 700 stand your ground murders since the Trayvon Martin case. I'll give you a case where the "stand your ground" law wasn't even used and the defendant still got off Scott free. When retired police officer Curtis Reeves killed Chad Oulson, who was sitting with his wife directly behind Reeves in a movie theater. Reeves shot Oulson because he didn't like the light coming off his phone when he was texting his babysitter to make sure his daughter was okay. That's how it all started. Several lives ruined because an old man with a gun couldn't control his emotions. Get used to it. We are about to see a lot more.
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Quote Originally Posted by I_Need_A_Detox:
Quote Originally Posted by DrStrangelove: Remember, all you have to do is prove that you "felt" threatened and you're safe to open fire. Source?
Why do you need a source, can't you google? There's been over 700 stand your ground murders since the Trayvon Martin case. I'll give you a case where the "stand your ground" law wasn't even used and the defendant still got off Scott free. When retired police officer Curtis Reeves killed Chad Oulson, who was sitting with his wife directly behind Reeves in a movie theater. Reeves shot Oulson because he didn't like the light coming off his phone when he was texting his babysitter to make sure his daughter was okay. That's how it all started. Several lives ruined because an old man with a gun couldn't control his emotions. Get used to it. We are about to see a lot more.
Quote Originally Posted by I_Need_A_Detox: Quote Originally Posted by DrStrangelove: Remember, all you have to do is prove that you "felt" threatened and you're safe to open fire. Source?Why do you need a source, can't you google? There's been over 700 stand your ground murders since the Trayvon Martin case. I'll give you a case where the "stand your ground" law wasn't even used and the defendant still got off Scott free. When retired police officer Curtis Reeves killed Chad Oulson, who was sitting with his wife directly behind Reeves in a movie theater. Reeves shot Oulson because he didn't like the light coming off his phone when he was texting his babysitter to make sure his daughter was okay. That's how it all started. Several lives ruined because an old man with a gun couldn't control his emotions. Get used to it. We are about to see a lot more.
Your story twisted of course. He didn't shoot someone because he didn't like the cell phone light. He asked him to shutoff his phone, Oulson did not and then Mr Reeves got up and went out and complained to a manager and then returned to his seat. Oulson started shouting at him " You fucking told on me!" He then threw popcorn at Reeves and what was believed to be his cell phone. Reeves, in his 70's, shot Oulson, in his early 40's, when he believed Oulson was then coming over his seat to attack him. The single shot also hit Oulson's wife's hand as she had her hand on her husband's chest trying to hold him back. The jury saw grainy video of the incident and heard the testimony. It took them 4 hours to find Reeves not guilty.
They obviously believed him.
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Quote Originally Posted by DrStrangelove:
Quote Originally Posted by I_Need_A_Detox: Quote Originally Posted by DrStrangelove: Remember, all you have to do is prove that you "felt" threatened and you're safe to open fire. Source?Why do you need a source, can't you google? There's been over 700 stand your ground murders since the Trayvon Martin case. I'll give you a case where the "stand your ground" law wasn't even used and the defendant still got off Scott free. When retired police officer Curtis Reeves killed Chad Oulson, who was sitting with his wife directly behind Reeves in a movie theater. Reeves shot Oulson because he didn't like the light coming off his phone when he was texting his babysitter to make sure his daughter was okay. That's how it all started. Several lives ruined because an old man with a gun couldn't control his emotions. Get used to it. We are about to see a lot more.
Your story twisted of course. He didn't shoot someone because he didn't like the cell phone light. He asked him to shutoff his phone, Oulson did not and then Mr Reeves got up and went out and complained to a manager and then returned to his seat. Oulson started shouting at him " You fucking told on me!" He then threw popcorn at Reeves and what was believed to be his cell phone. Reeves, in his 70's, shot Oulson, in his early 40's, when he believed Oulson was then coming over his seat to attack him. The single shot also hit Oulson's wife's hand as she had her hand on her husband's chest trying to hold him back. The jury saw grainy video of the incident and heard the testimony. It took them 4 hours to find Reeves not guilty.
Quote Originally Posted by I_Need_A_Detox: Quote Originally Posted by DrStrangelove: Remember, all you have to do is prove that you "felt" threatened and you're safe to open fire. Source?Why do you need a source, can't you google?
So, what are you saying? Google did not work for you?
It is customary when someone asks for your source to give them one or two. Or, simply say it is just your opinion. No big deal to say it is just how you feel.
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Quote Originally Posted by DrStrangelove:
Quote Originally Posted by I_Need_A_Detox: Quote Originally Posted by DrStrangelove: Remember, all you have to do is prove that you "felt" threatened and you're safe to open fire. Source?Why do you need a source, can't you google?
So, what are you saying? Google did not work for you?
It is customary when someone asks for your source to give them one or two. Or, simply say it is just your opinion. No big deal to say it is just how you feel.
Quote Originally Posted by DrStrangelove: Quote Originally Posted by I_Need_A_Detox: Quote Originally Posted by DrStrangelove: Remember, all you have to do is prove that you "felt" threatened and you're safe to open fire. Source?Why do you need a source, can't you google? There's been over 700 stand your ground murders since the Trayvon Martin case. I'll give you a case where the "stand your ground" law wasn't even used and the defendant still got off Scott free. When retired police officer Curtis Reeves killed Chad Oulson, who was sitting with his wife directly behind Reeves in a movie theater. Reeves shot Oulson because he didn't like the light coming off his phone when he was texting his babysitter to make sure his daughter was okay. That's how it all started. Several lives ruined because an old man with a gun couldn't control his emotions. Get used to it. We are about to see a lot more. Your story twisted of course. He didn't shoot someone because he didn't like the cell phone light. He asked him to shutoff his phone, Oulson did not and then Mr Reeves got up and went out and complained to a manager and then returned to his seat. Oulson started shouting at him " You fucking told on me!" He then threw popcorn at Reeves and what was believed to be his cell phone. Reeves, in his 70's, shot Oulson, in his early 40's, when he believed Oulson was then coming over his seat to attack him. The single shot also hit Oulson's wife's hand as she had her hand on her husband's chest trying to hold him back. The jury saw grainy video of the incident and heard the testimony. It took them 4 hours to find Reeves not guilty. They obviously believed him.
You've just made my point. He "believed" he was coming over his seat, but that never happened. Olson was shot because the light of his phone bothered an old man and he threw some popcorn. Of course he was found not guilty. It happened in Florida and the old man was a retired decorated police Captain. Pretty sad story all the way around. And that was just the one that made the headlines.
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Quote Originally Posted by UNIMAN:
Quote Originally Posted by DrStrangelove: Quote Originally Posted by I_Need_A_Detox: Quote Originally Posted by DrStrangelove: Remember, all you have to do is prove that you "felt" threatened and you're safe to open fire. Source?Why do you need a source, can't you google? There's been over 700 stand your ground murders since the Trayvon Martin case. I'll give you a case where the "stand your ground" law wasn't even used and the defendant still got off Scott free. When retired police officer Curtis Reeves killed Chad Oulson, who was sitting with his wife directly behind Reeves in a movie theater. Reeves shot Oulson because he didn't like the light coming off his phone when he was texting his babysitter to make sure his daughter was okay. That's how it all started. Several lives ruined because an old man with a gun couldn't control his emotions. Get used to it. We are about to see a lot more. Your story twisted of course. He didn't shoot someone because he didn't like the cell phone light. He asked him to shutoff his phone, Oulson did not and then Mr Reeves got up and went out and complained to a manager and then returned to his seat. Oulson started shouting at him " You fucking told on me!" He then threw popcorn at Reeves and what was believed to be his cell phone. Reeves, in his 70's, shot Oulson, in his early 40's, when he believed Oulson was then coming over his seat to attack him. The single shot also hit Oulson's wife's hand as she had her hand on her husband's chest trying to hold him back. The jury saw grainy video of the incident and heard the testimony. It took them 4 hours to find Reeves not guilty. They obviously believed him.
You've just made my point. He "believed" he was coming over his seat, but that never happened. Olson was shot because the light of his phone bothered an old man and he threw some popcorn. Of course he was found not guilty. It happened in Florida and the old man was a retired decorated police Captain. Pretty sad story all the way around. And that was just the one that made the headlines.
Actually I read now that Oulson ripped the bag of popcorn from Reeves and threw it in his face.
Pretty sad when you cannot just apologize and put your phone away. Pretty sad when it's all about you and watch me terrorize/bully an old man for speaking up. A lot folks that way today. That is what caused this, period.
The jury "believed" and that's all that matters. You weren't there and I wasn't there.
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Actually I read now that Oulson ripped the bag of popcorn from Reeves and threw it in his face.
Pretty sad when you cannot just apologize and put your phone away. Pretty sad when it's all about you and watch me terrorize/bully an old man for speaking up. A lot folks that way today. That is what caused this, period.
The jury "believed" and that's all that matters. You weren't there and I wasn't there.
O.k. back to the reality of The NRA only clear argument for the right to bear arms in public.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.
That or they run out of ammo or the weapon jams.
So laws do not matter and after t
Watching the cowards of Texas at the u value school shooting don't start thinking law enforcement will save you....
If 98% is not a correct figure then what is more than 80% of the shootings and all the school shootings are in gun free zones but I guess criminals can't read????
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O.k. back to the reality of The NRA only clear argument for the right to bear arms in public.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.
That or they run out of ammo or the weapon jams.
So laws do not matter and after t
Watching the cowards of Texas at the u value school shooting don't start thinking law enforcement will save you....
If 98% is not a correct figure then what is more than 80% of the shootings and all the school shootings are in gun free zones but I guess criminals can't read????
This kind of wild west nonsense will shut people down by the thought of any exchange or challenge that could turn into a "stand your ground" moment of murder. Remember, all you have to do is prove that you "felt" threatened and you're safe to open fire. This country has gone mad over guns.
Dr. Strangelove is right. Stand your ground laws were created by the gun lobby to solve a problem that doesn't exist. Traditional self defense laws already give people the right to protect themselves if they cannot avoid violence. But shoot first laws are controversial and dangerous because they give people a license to kill even if they started the confrontation or even if they can safely de-escalate the situation by walking away. They encourage more violence and don't deter overall crime.
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Quote Originally Posted by DrStrangelove:
This kind of wild west nonsense will shut people down by the thought of any exchange or challenge that could turn into a "stand your ground" moment of murder. Remember, all you have to do is prove that you "felt" threatened and you're safe to open fire. This country has gone mad over guns.
Dr. Strangelove is right. Stand your ground laws were created by the gun lobby to solve a problem that doesn't exist. Traditional self defense laws already give people the right to protect themselves if they cannot avoid violence. But shoot first laws are controversial and dangerous because they give people a license to kill even if they started the confrontation or even if they can safely de-escalate the situation by walking away. They encourage more violence and don't deter overall crime.
How did stand your ground laws effect the right to self defense another deflection.
Stand your ground says you don't have to run you can confront a criminal pounding you into the ground by shooting them. Not negotiating at that point laws do not stop criminals they create more criminal behaviour and thinking that somehow guns will not be apart of American culture is equally absurd.
Simple a mass shooting began at a mall the dead peep killed three a.man took a gun and shot him...... What a friggin concept. No more mass shooting ...
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How did stand your ground laws effect the right to self defense another deflection.
Stand your ground says you don't have to run you can confront a criminal pounding you into the ground by shooting them. Not negotiating at that point laws do not stop criminals they create more criminal behaviour and thinking that somehow guns will not be apart of American culture is equally absurd.
Simple a mass shooting began at a mall the dead peep killed three a.man took a gun and shot him...... What a friggin concept. No more mass shooting ...
How did stand your ground laws effect the right to self defense another deflection. Stand your ground says you don't have to run you can confront a criminal pounding you into the ground by shooting them. Not negotiating at that point laws do not stop criminals they create more criminal behaviour and thinking that somehow guns will not be apart of American culture is equally absurd. Simple a mass shooting began at a mall the dead peep killed three a.man took a gun and shot him...... What a friggin concept. No more mass shooting ...
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Quote Originally Posted by nature1970:
How did stand your ground laws effect the right to self defense another deflection. Stand your ground says you don't have to run you can confront a criminal pounding you into the ground by shooting them. Not negotiating at that point laws do not stop criminals they create more criminal behaviour and thinking that somehow guns will not be apart of American culture is equally absurd. Simple a mass shooting began at a mall the dead peep killed three a.man took a gun and shot him...... What a friggin concept. No more mass shooting ...
CNN reports that a good guy with a gun accidentally shoots an innocent girl instead of robber. In under 1% of crimes, good guys with guns successfully defend themselves according to Giffords law center. For every justifiable homicide, they are more likely to cause unintentional deaths. Contrary to common belief, access to gun doesn't protect people any better than calling police or running away in crime situation. Myth is that guns increase public safety. Actually, evidences show more guns increase risks.
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CNN reports that a good guy with a gun accidentally shoots an innocent girl instead of robber. In under 1% of crimes, good guys with guns successfully defend themselves according to Giffords law center. For every justifiable homicide, they are more likely to cause unintentional deaths. Contrary to common belief, access to gun doesn't protect people any better than calling police or running away in crime situation. Myth is that guns increase public safety. Actually, evidences show more guns increase risks.
The source is a left wing propaganda system. That states.
The research is clear: gun laws work. The nation’s courts agree: gun laws are fully compatible with the Second Amendment. And the American people have spoken: our weak gun safety laws are killing nearly 40,000 Americans every year. Something must change.
For over 25 years, Giffords Law Center has been at the forefront of the fight for justice and legislative reform. And we won’t stop until we’ve put an end to this epidemic once and for all.
It shows a map of the northeast. On the map those states with the highest rated gun control laws a or a pluses are the most likely to be shot in a drive by shooting. States marked d or f least likely.. Laws and the erosion of the right to bear arms have direct implications.
Lets deal with Illinois.
GUN SAFETY STRENGTH RANK 8 out of 50 GUN DEATH RATE RANK 27 out of 50 GUN DEATHS PER 100K 14.1 % DIFFERENCE FROM NATIONAL AVERAGE ↑3%
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according to Giffords law center.
The source is a left wing propaganda system. That states.
The research is clear: gun laws work. The nation’s courts agree: gun laws are fully compatible with the Second Amendment. And the American people have spoken: our weak gun safety laws are killing nearly 40,000 Americans every year. Something must change.
For over 25 years, Giffords Law Center has been at the forefront of the fight for justice and legislative reform. And we won’t stop until we’ve put an end to this epidemic once and for all.
It shows a map of the northeast. On the map those states with the highest rated gun control laws a or a pluses are the most likely to be shot in a drive by shooting. States marked d or f least likely.. Laws and the erosion of the right to bear arms have direct implications.
Lets deal with Illinois.
GUN SAFETY STRENGTH RANK 8 out of 50 GUN DEATH RATE RANK 27 out of 50 GUN DEATHS PER 100K 14.1 % DIFFERENCE FROM NATIONAL AVERAGE ↑3%
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