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    All Forums | Politics

    how do we know an assault weapon ban won't work?

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    bowlslit
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    bowlslit
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    Posted: Dec. 20, 2012 - 2:10 PM ET #26

    Quote Originally Posted by cashin:

    The question for me has never been whether banning assault weapons will "work" or somehow stop all these events which seem to have a form of mental illness at their core combined with other factors. Of course it won't but that's an immature & extreme argument some like to use.. I guess thinking it somehow bolsters their views. Most reasonable folks recognize tha kind of thinking to be as silly as saying since mental health care, no matter how well funded, affordable & accessible will not prevent mental illnesss, it's a waste of time & money. Or that because seat belts won't prevent all death/injuries in car wrecks, they should be abolished.

    The question is in our society today, would banning assault weapons along with stricter regs & background checks lessen the number of innocent deaths/injuries & the answer is yes imo. By how much, who knows but even it was only a small number it would be worth it. On the other side, you also have this ridiculous argument in regards to the interpretation of the 2nd amendment & what seems to be a in terms of tyranny & taking away all weapons which will never happen in this country. I suppose if gun makers came up with a weapon that shot missile like projectiles that blew up & burned bldgs and they became popular & widespreadly used by criminals & the mentally disturbed in mass killings, they would be defending their legality & sales/use as well.

     



    What exactly to you mean by stricter background checks?

    Don't they already do a background check?

    You want them to do a background check twice?
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    Quote Originally Posted by cashin:

    The question for me has never been whether banning assault weapons will "work" or somehow stop all these events which seem to have a form of mental illness at their core combined with other factors. Of course it won't but that's an immature & extreme argument some like to use.. I guess thinking it somehow bolsters their views. Most reasonable folks recognize tha kind of thinking to be as silly as saying since mental health care, no matter how well funded, affordable & accessible will not prevent mental illnesss, it's a waste of time & money. Or that because seat belts won't prevent all death/injuries in car wrecks, they should be abolished.

    The question is in our society today, would banning assault weapons along with stricter regs & background checks lessen the number of innocent deaths/injuries & the answer is yes imo. By how much, who knows but even it was only a small number it would be worth it. On the other side, you also have this ridiculous argument in regards to the interpretation of the 2nd amendment & what seems to be a in terms of tyranny & taking away all weapons which will never happen in this country. I suppose if gun makers came up with a weapon that shot missile like projectiles that blew up & burned bldgs and they became popular & widespreadly used by criminals & the mentally disturbed in mass killings, they would be defending their legality & sales/use as well.

     



    What exactly to you mean by stricter background checks?

    Don't they already do a background check?

    You want them to do a background check twice?
     
    cashin
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    Posted: Dec. 20, 2012 - 2:19 PM ET #27

    bowls - I mean wherever & however background checks are not fully extensive, to make them so. I'm not familiar with all the types of background checks that are currently done everywhere..
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    bowls - I mean wherever & however background checks are not fully extensive, to make them so. I'm not familiar with all the types of background checks that are currently done everywhere..
     
    OakleyDoak
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    Posted: Dec. 20, 2012 - 2:21 PM ET #28

    Quote Originally Posted by rick3117:


    How?  

    Well,you can't use an AW if a ban totally eradicated all AW's.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rick3117:


    How?  

    Well,you can't use an AW if a ban totally eradicated all AW's.
     
    OakleyDoak
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    Posted: Dec. 20, 2012 - 2:58 PM ET #29

    Shadow Market production and the inability to locate and seize all AW's in circulation will offer yet another imperfect system.
    However,again,without availability and obtainability as the situation is now,any law that prohibits further manufacturing and possession would certainly reduce if not completely prevent mass shootings with AW's...Assault Weapons - I'm not alluding to the firearms that will still be lawful !

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    Shadow Market production and the inability to locate and seize all AW's in circulation will offer yet another imperfect system.
    However,again,without availability and obtainability as the situation is now,any law that prohibits further manufacturing and possession would certainly reduce if not completely prevent mass shootings with AW's...Assault Weapons - I'm not alluding to the firearms that will still be lawful !

     
    rick3117
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    Posted: Dec. 20, 2012 - 5:48 PM ET #30

    locate and seize huh? 
    Good luck with all that.  

    It is going to be a lot of overtime, and a lot of flag draped coffins to seize over 3.5 million Assault weapons.  (that is just AR-15s).  

    If we are talking combat shotguns, add another 300,000.  

    If we are talking about all semi automatics,  get your mind around 150,000,000 weapons that will need to be seized.  


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    locate and seize huh? 
    Good luck with all that.  

    It is going to be a lot of overtime, and a lot of flag draped coffins to seize over 3.5 million Assault weapons.  (that is just AR-15s).  

    If we are talking combat shotguns, add another 300,000.  

    If we are talking about all semi automatics,  get your mind around 150,000,000 weapons that will need to be seized.  


     
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Dec. 20, 2012 - 5:57 PM ET #31

    pretty sad commentary rick..

    guns mean more than upholding the law (if that scenario happens).

    Taking AR weapons would not be government tyranny..but I am sure some in that camp would kill first, think never.


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    pretty sad commentary rick..

    guns mean more than upholding the law (if that scenario happens).

    Taking AR weapons would not be government tyranny..but I am sure some in that camp would kill first, think never.


     
    rick3117
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    Posted: Dec. 20, 2012 - 6:32 PM ET #32

    I doubt that most law enforcement would even follow the unconstitutional order to disarm law abiding citizens.  




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    I doubt that most law enforcement would even follow the unconstitutional order to disarm law abiding citizens.  




     
    bowlslit
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    Posted: Dec. 20, 2012 - 7:02 PM ET #33

    Why would anybody want to sieze a weopon that is not used in an illegal manner?

    Anybody that truly thinks like that is a strait up A HOLE!

     

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    Why would anybody want to sieze a weopon that is not used in an illegal manner?

    Anybody that truly thinks like that is a strait up A HOLE!

     

     
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Dec. 20, 2012 - 8:28 PM ET #34

    Quote Originally Posted by rick3117:

    I doubt that most law enforcement would even follow the unconstitutional order to disarm law abiding citizens.  






    It wouldnt be disarming, it would be eliminating CERTAIN weapons which would not be deemed as necessary for residential ownership.

    Disarming would obviously be how you would classify it..but that just isnt the truth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rick3117:

    I doubt that most law enforcement would even follow the unconstitutional order to disarm law abiding citizens.  






    It wouldnt be disarming, it would be eliminating CERTAIN weapons which would not be deemed as necessary for residential ownership.

    Disarming would obviously be how you would classify it..but that just isnt the truth.
     
    rick3117
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    Posted: Dec. 20, 2012 - 8:41 PM ET #35

    Do you realize how Orwellian you sound? 



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    Do you realize how Orwellian you sound? 



     
    rick3117
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    Posted: Dec. 20, 2012 - 8:50 PM ET #36

    It is taking away the teeth of the 2nd amendment.  It is eliminating the idea of the right to revolt and a citizen's right to bear arms to protect himself from an oppressive government. 

    I know you do not think that is valid. You have said as much.   

    But don't worry,  they did it to protect you.  

    Now you will be safe and nothing will ever harm you again.  Literally nobody will die....... ever. 


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    It is taking away the teeth of the 2nd amendment.  It is eliminating the idea of the right to revolt and a citizen's right to bear arms to protect himself from an oppressive government. 

    I know you do not think that is valid. You have said as much.   

    But don't worry,  they did it to protect you.  

    Now you will be safe and nothing will ever harm you again.  Literally nobody will die....... ever. 


     
    rick3117
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    Posted: Dec. 20, 2012 - 8:59 PM ET #37

    If I own an AR-15 am trained and proficient with it, and the government takes it away, and tells me I can have a blunderbuss or a musket, you don't consider that disarming? 
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    If I own an AR-15 am trained and proficient with it, and the government takes it away, and tells me I can have a blunderbuss or a musket, you don't consider that disarming? 
     
    rick3117
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    Posted: Dec. 20, 2012 - 9:00 PM ET #38

    You know we didn't even disarm Iraqi civilians like we have American civilians.  
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    You know we didn't even disarm Iraqi civilians like we have American civilians.  
     
    thirdperson
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    Posted: Dec. 20, 2012 - 9:17 PM ET #39

    Quote Originally Posted by rick3117:


    Air marshals and prison guards have access to firearms. 
    There is a difference.  Guards are authorized to use guns for security.  Whereas inmates and passengers aren't allowed to carry guns.  Airplanes and prisons are the closest things to gun-free zones.  If a strict definition is used, gun-free zones don't exist.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rick3117:


    Air marshals and prison guards have access to firearms. 
    There is a difference.  Guards are authorized to use guns for security.  Whereas inmates and passengers aren't allowed to carry guns.  Airplanes and prisons are the closest things to gun-free zones.  If a strict definition is used, gun-free zones don't exist.
     
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Dec. 20, 2012 - 9:25 PM ET #40

    rick,

    Of course you have all the excuses and rationalizations..like the Orwell comment.

    Disarming isnt taking selected guns off the market, it is removing ALL guns.

    I disagree about the second amendment, it has been destroyed by the NRA and the gun manufacturers long long ago.

    You have a concept of any gun is an ok gun, I do not share that point of view, I think drawing a line and having it remove certain weapons is a step in the right direction.
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    rick,

    Of course you have all the excuses and rationalizations..like the Orwell comment.

    Disarming isnt taking selected guns off the market, it is removing ALL guns.

    I disagree about the second amendment, it has been destroyed by the NRA and the gun manufacturers long long ago.

    You have a concept of any gun is an ok gun, I do not share that point of view, I think drawing a line and having it remove certain weapons is a step in the right direction.
     
    thirdperson
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    Posted: Dec. 20, 2012 - 9:40 PM ET #41

    Although gun bans at airplanes and prisons do work, expanding that is too costly and impractical.  Governments are limited in gun control.  No surprise if there is more weak gun control.
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    Although gun bans at airplanes and prisons do work, expanding that is too costly and impractical.  Governments are limited in gun control.  No surprise if there is more weak gun control.
     
    rick3117
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    Posted: Dec. 20, 2012 - 11:07 PM ET #42

    Wall, we have taken away more and more gun rights over the years.
    Each time it is a little more.
    I am ok with full autos being banned. I made the mistake of agreeing with that in the past not realizing that it was just a step away from banning semi-autos.

    There is no negotiating with people that do not believe in an individual right, or that there is a framework for resistance put into our constitution.
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    Wall, we have taken away more and more gun rights over the years.
    Each time it is a little more.
    I am ok with full autos being banned. I made the mistake of agreeing with that in the past not realizing that it was just a step away from banning semi-autos.

    There is no negotiating with people that do not believe in an individual right, or that there is a framework for resistance put into our constitution.
     
     
    dl36
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    Posted: Dec. 21, 2012 - 3:55 AM ET #43

    Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:


    Nothing Australia did "worked." Unless you are happy that they didn't have another school shooting 

    wait... so if this was in response to school shootings... then didnt it work? 

    they didnt have another school shooting, wasnt that the intention and purpose behind the changes...  

    and amazingly with all the other chaos you point out the response would have every reason in the world to fail with things being so bad... 

    but some how through this chaos, the schools stayed safe... and I think there were people who were happy about that...
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    Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:


    Nothing Australia did "worked." Unless you are happy that they didn't have another school shooting 

    wait... so if this was in response to school shootings... then didnt it work? 

    they didnt have another school shooting, wasnt that the intention and purpose behind the changes...  

    and amazingly with all the other chaos you point out the response would have every reason in the world to fail with things being so bad... 

    but some how through this chaos, the schools stayed safe... and I think there were people who were happy about that...
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