LA DA says he won't prosecute these crimes.

@Raiders22

 @wallstreetcappers

 You guys both get it. What both of you are saying is true.

@StumpTownStu

 SF is a literal shit hole. Ask anyone living there if they've experienced crime (I'm sure you've had a few car windows broken, bikes stolen from your yard etc), personally. High percentage HAVE! Why are people leaving their car doors unlocked (probably the best way to prevent a window smash) and leaving signs on windows saying there's nothing of value inside? WTF is that shit?! Sure, some parts of SF are fantastic, but the filth is overtaking that city at a rate like no other. Where are the politicians of SF speaking out on that? They won't because they know they'll get voted out if the call the truth out. Trying to convince people that SF is this great city is doing SF a disservice and it's only trying to hold on to the old SF. If you want to fix a problem, you have to make changes that might not be good in the short term. But if you don't fix problems, it only gets worse over time. Where are all the 30 something tech bros making 200k a year? Ya know, the ones that support the local businesses?! They're just about all gone! The city is not the same as it was 10 years ago when tech moved in and money was flowing freely. SVB wasn't the only bank propping this up. 

Yes, the drug problem has always been there. Question for you, is it getting better or worse? Pretty sure everyone already knows that answer. 

You already answered the question about SF being a dump by explaining how crime and drugs are moving throughout the city! How is SF going to combat or slow that down? WHAT ARE THEY DOING?!  

Do you know what the city of SF is doing to store fronts that are empty? If not, do some quick research on what the city is doing to building owners who don't have tenants moved into business locations. Then ask yourself why businesses are leaving SF. You can't tax and charge people when businesses are leaving, it's only going to make more leave. That's liberal policy effecting businesses. 

Don't even get me started on San Francisco and California politics, it's a lot more complicated than simply failed liberal policies. And this stuff could happen, and is happening everywhere. But it's happening on a grander scale in liberal cities. The liberal utopia is a 2 class system, and the upper class is just fooling everyone to create their system. 

@StumpTownStu

 We used to do business in SF and have recently have stopped. EVERY CUSTOMER IN SF SAYS THEY AGREE WITH THAT DECISION. So ya, I do know what I'm talking about, bro. 

The comment about the Warriors and Giants was in regards to the shit hole that SF is becoming, much like Oakland. Oakland just got there faster then SF. I know the Warriors and Giants won't be leaving soon. But if SF keeps the pace the city is going, it won't be long before either of those teams wants out. You're literally watching SF dig their hole deeper, just like Oakland has done. Why does Oakland not have money to keep sports teams around? WHERE IS THAT MONEY BEING ALLOCATED? How did Oakland have such great success with 3 teams and now they have 0?! 

You keep proving that you don't know what you are talking about. I can't stand guts like you who say things on the internet like, "We did business there." when to anyone with a clue, you clearly have probably never been to the place, and don't know what you're talking about. You barking about things you see in Twitter feeds.

As far as where the money is being allocated, I didn't think I would have to give a lesson in civic budgeting, nor on the business models of sports franchises and event facilities but I will simply say this. Oakland has never really had the money to support three professional teams. It is a small, blue collar city. As to where the money goes, well, the majority of Oakland's budget, like many major cities, actually goes to police. Go figure.

@StumpTownStu

 As to where the money goes, well, the majority of Oakland's budget, like many major cities, actually goes to police. Go figure. 

And where does SFs go? Maybe it should also go to the police so they can clean the streets up. I've chatted with SF police, they say the same things everyone else is saying, they can't do shit out of fear. The city is a literal shit hole and when criminals can walk free, it's only going to get worse. You're trying to defend against what you deep down know as the truth. It's ok to admit that city sucks. Yes, there are bright spots, but those are fading week after week. You're watching your city get taken over by undesirables and your politicians won't do shit about because they desperately need their powers. Your officials are sacrificing your quality of life for their power. I've witnessed first hand people walking in to a store and running out with, of all things, shampoo and conditioner. This was hours before the NFC championships at the old Stick.   

I refuse to go to SF today. Used to go to a handful of Giants games (as an A's fan). It's disgusting to get out of your car and have to step over shit, or needles.   

And I can't stress enough. I am not defending SF. I have no reason to. I really don't give a damn or two shits what anyone in the internet thinks about San Francisco. I'm not from SF. I am from Oakland. I worked in SF for many years and I'm still aways there in business. But I don't even live in the Bay anymore. I moved almost ten years ago. So clearly I had my issues.

And I can't stress enough that Imma not defending SF or California politicians. I literally can't think of one that I like. It's just more complicated than you know. You're spouting about shit that you're reading. You  can tell the difference. When Raiders talks, I can tell he has seen what is going on with his own eyes. When Wally talks, same. You just sound full of sheet though. No offense. Homelessness. Adduction. This stuff is tricky.

@StumpTownStu

Oh nice!  

So you know what they did to fix it?

@BigGame90

 It isnt about politics, it is about the law and if you want to stretch it to theft that is about risk, companies are not willing to risk their employees or lawsuits to stop theft and that has been an ongoing development over the last ten years it seems. It is not about SF being a liberal town it is about SF is a dense metro center where few people live, businesses have employees come in and they go home to the suburbs or away from downtown due to a lack of supply and high costs of existing supply. So that means looters know that businesses are either sparsely monitored or not at all, hit and run activity for looting is easy and not worth the risk to stop it. Businesses have decided the loss is too great and some have moved but none have taken a GOP big guns warzone approach to stop looting, and to me that is the CORRECT response.

Your examples of lib towns are more about climate geography than any other variable plus as mentioned SF in the evenings is a ghost town, the police are also not motivated to turn it into Streets of SanFransisco Michael Douglas tough cop land as businesses do not want the area in which they work during the day to turn into a warzone where cops are shooting it out and criminals are in attack mode, that is not good for anyone either. If you want SF to take that hard line approach then businesses and their tax base, their employee base will leave and the city will have vacant buildings, no tax dollars and a crime centered downtown. 

For all the finger pointing and partisan comments, I do not see a solution that has merit from any of you right wing doods, so given that the city wants to keep businesses there, they do not want to start a ground war with criminals and turn the center into a crumbling ghost town, what should happen?

@BigGame90

That part is all Politics.  It stems back decades and is only getting worse.  The policies that set the poverty in place have only gotten worse and is seen way more in the bigger cities.  

The policies that do not apprehend and punish are also seen way more in these cities. 

@BigGame90

 Dude, SF probably spends close to a billion dollars on policing. And they probably should spend double. You don't know what you are talking about.

@StumpTownStu

 says the person who's no longer around the city. When's the last time you went to that shit hole? 

Police presence, obviously. This isn't reinventing the wheel. That's the thing though. Smash and grab crews are zombies. You can combat them through traditional means. They simply added more officers to the area. Those things still occur but aren't rampant like during Covid. The drug addicts and vagrants are a different story. You can't simply just lock everyone up. I wish it was that simple.

How Oakland getting a drive-by 

We already give away football team -- we did not give away our knuckleheads too. 

I'm literally flying there this evening.

I'm there multiple times a month, pretty much every month.

Huh?

Oakland didn't give the world the drive-by. That goes back to the Al Capone days. We did give the world the freeway shooting though but that was more of an entire Eastbay thing. Not just Oakland.

@wallstreetcappers

 Just let the criminals run amok. It's what's happened, it's what's currently happening and crime is only getting worse. I don't have an answer to fix it and I'm guessing you won't either. But I do know that if there's no consequences for your actions, people will never change. They tried to not report crimes hoping that the stats would show crime going down. We all know that's BS because we have to live through it and getting lied to by hearing "look, crime stats are down" when we all know it's worse, is a slap in the face. 

Politicians need to own up to the shit storm they created, left or right and do what's right for the civilized tax paying citizen that is paying their salaries. Enough of this left vs right crap. If people were united, we wouldn't need as many politicians. So why would they want us united when the division is what keeps them around?!

@wallstreetcappers

Yes.  The law is set by politicians -- so, by definition, that part is all Politics.

No.  Businesses will stay if you remove the crime.

There are Liberal cities in every single type of climate and geography.

No way they would allow a hardline approach -- that is the point.  That is the last city that would be okay with that.  But it would NOT run off the businesses.

The solution is offered by many, many politicians and pundits.  Lock up the criminals, keep them there without the release on no cash-bail, make the time served appropriately fit the crime.  Couple that with the appropriate measures to alleviate the poverty and educate the kids.  Encourage the good behavior and reward it. 

All studies have shown that a two-pronged approach using policies from both Liberals and Conservatives work.

Sorry to hear that you have to go back   

If it wasn't for work (assuming it's for work), would you go back? 

@StumpTownStu

Oakland catching the drive-by in this situation -- this conversation about SF.  Trying to stay out of it and still catching strays.  Haha! 

@StumpTownStu

 Are you sure?  I looked at quite a few stories in the last year that came up right quick.  I did not try to look at stats. Maybe they are down.  But a police presence did not help Nordstrom's, etc.  

If they are just releasing them anyway is that helping?

Also these did not seem to be strung out folks.  These were lively young guys, mostly, just stealing.  

Maybe I will look into it later.  They tell me all crimes are up in nearly all areas now.  I know the drug use and drug-related crime is up.  But by all indications it looks like the other is up and not down.

https://dailycaller.com/2022/07/17/san-francisco-smash-and-grab/

https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/car-break-sf-intersections-18209516.php

https://www.forbes.com/sites/pamdanziger/2023/08/14/luxury-retailers-security-risk-rises-after-two-brazen-smash-and-grab-thefts-caught-on-camera/?sh=40a755015afe

https://libertyunyielding.com/2023/07/25/shoplifters-steal-openly-in-san-francisco-while-being-filmed-by-the-media/

What right-wing cities are you referring to? Love to hear what city that you come up with that is major metropolitan/urban that you consider "right wing" that is just killing it in terms of addressing crime. 

@Raiders22

 What is the evidence that locking up someone with hard time for looting accomplishes the result you suggest? What similar city with similar geographics, layout, restrictions is there to show as an example of locking people up as a solution?

You cant lock up long term for theft even for gun possession, it is not the law anywhere and for sure not there. It is a big debate between the cost benefit of lockup and it seems the conclusion California has made is that the results do not support the cost and the loss of freedom and mental sanity of those in prisions.

If you really wanted a result, the Old Testament approach is the wrong one, the smack someone with a rod or cut off a finger for shoplifting, that punitive punish based way is not how our country treats its citizens even ones who break the law. The only real solution is to spend a crap ton of money on security on a private basis and a public basis and make the act deterred by making it difficult for criminals to get a reward for taking that risk. The problem to me there is that no business wants to spend spend spend and also create an environment of a police state, many if not most businesses downtown are more professional and their employees are educated professionals, so changing the environment would have large impacts on the city and saddle the city and state with legal prosecution costs, housing of criminals, the legal system is not big or fast enough to turn into a McDonalds for petty theft, the dynamics of your hardline approach just dont work.

Catching strays out here! 

 I've only been to SF 3x, the last being about 20 years ago, so I can't comment on what it looks like now. In fact La Quinta/PS is the only place I've been in CA since.

 What I do know is the decisions made in those cities always filters up to Seattle. When they made a decision to stop arresting people for crimes, our milquetoast politicians up here followed suit. They are the ultimate "followers". You should've seen them scrambling to clean up downtown before the MLB AS game last month.

 Even though the population continues to grow, nobody ever wants to build new prisons. It's cheaper for the politicians to just order LE to stop arresting criminals........doesn't do much for citizens though.

@StumpTownStu

Yeah joke did not come across right the first post. 

We try be like St Paul to Minneapolis or Fort Worth to Dallas