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Posted: #76
Quote Originally Posted by shiek:

The most important metric in rating a leader is how and whether they accept responsibility when something goes wrong.    What is the clowns rating on that metric.  All he does is blame everyone else


The alternative would have been someone with a shrilling and annoying voice... who blames everyone else for her mistakes and failures.
 
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Posted: #77
Hillary Clinton and jeb bush were 2 of the worst presidential candidates during my lifetime.  Hillary had zero chance of fixing the major problems of the day.  Trump has a slight chance but has not yet demonstrated the leadership skills necessary.  He's got a huge lift but I'll give him a chance.
 
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Posted: #78
Really? Amazing that is your best metric for measuring a leader. I don't feel that way at all. It may be important. But not the most important one. 
And there is no way Hillary or Jeb were two of the worst candidates in your lifetime.  You may not have liked them or their leanings but very hard to deny their qualifications. 
What leadership skills are you referring to exactly?  Which ones does he have and which does he not have?  
 
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Posted: #79
Slim.  Yes intangibles move. But our dilemma is always, after analyzing the data, how to extrapolate the amount and reason, etc.  
The other big issue is when they don't actually manifest --- then things deteriorate very quickly. 
But the big concern now is, if or when, the ceiling is lifted do we go with more spending or not?
 
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Posted: #80
Didn't say they weren't qualified.  To the contrary, 2 of the most qualified.   Both horrible candidates, however, because neither could even tell the American people why they were running and, more importantly, were absolutely clueless about the appeal of trump (which is why both lost).   Qualifications, have very little to do w running a competent natl race.   

If you are going to criticize someone else's opinion on a metric then at least offer your own and in that light I guess u r going to agree w the op that trump is a good leader.
 
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Posted: #81
Not criticizing as much as surprised you would say that is all.  Worst certainly sounded like you didn't think they were that qualified.  Both were top tier in their parties for a reason. Lot of experience in politics. Both actually talked about the issues that they thought their folks wanted to hear about. Bush did well as a governor. Hillary was respected as a candidate as well. Just because they lost doesn't mean they were worst.  For sure you may not agree with their views on what they would do about the issues. 
Not criticizing a metric?  What metric?  You didn't use one to criticize. It seemed to be your opinion was all. But seemed to based on your bias to me. 
To me you have to be able to express your opinion and views and potential actions well enough to get people follow you.  I think they both built up a large following.  The issue to me with democrats is they don't have a good influx of young candidates yet. Republicans didn't relate well enough to disgruntled people that are upset with usual politics. 
Diplomacy, ability to convince people that your way may be worth giving it a shot. And ability to multi-task and have well-trusted assistants to delegate to.  And many more such things. 
I didn't mean to really be critical.  Just amazed you said it the way you did. 
My questions for you would be what your metrics are?  What candidates of each party did you prefer based on your metrics?  Because a lot of people obviously felt those well two of the best candidates.  Or did you really just mean something altogether different?
 
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Posted: #82
I was merely challenging the ops apparent suggestion that trump was a good leader.   Said another way, from my perspective, you cannot be a good leader if you never accept responsibility for failures and instead blame others.   You apparently disagree.

When I took issue w the ops characterization of trump as a leader then he noted that the alternative was worse.  Well saying that u picked the lesser of 2 evils in no way establishes that your guy is a good leader.  I was basically noting that I agreed w his assessment about Hillary by noting that she and the other main establishment guy were the 2 worst candidates I've ever seen.  You basically confirmed this in your comment that Repubs didn't relate enough to the disgruntled folks.  Washington is broken and both bush and Clinton were clueless about this, which was the election in a nutshell.


 
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Posted: #83
Gotcha. No problem with you saying it that way. I agree. 
 
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Posted: #84
Really SS?

Oh my crap you are making me laugh..

So Apple corps "intangibles" are the same as what you are claiming...oh and you forgot the goodwill part. Is goodwill like Trump saying Happy Thanksgiving to all the troops???

 
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Posted: #85
Okay, I guess it has to be said but Trump doesn't really lead.  Why would I even say that?  Easy.  He defers all military decisions to the brass in the military, which is very atypical for a commander-in-chief and he's not involved in any of the drafting of bills when it comes to Congress, which means this executive branch is possibly the most absent one in the history of the U.S. 

What Trump actually does is tells others what he wants accomplished and takes credit when things go right, then blames everyone but himself when something goes wrong, absolving himself of any responsibility.  I'm hardly impressed by his leadership.
 
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Posted: #86
Thankfully at this point in time we are not trading a traitor like Bowe Bergdahl for 5 enemy warriors. I will call this major progress.
 
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Posted: #87

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QUOTE#85
Posted: 11/24/2017 11:22:06 AM
Okay, I guess it has to be said but Trump doesn't really lead.  Why would I even say that?  Easy.  He defers all military decisions to the brass in the military, which is very atypical for a commander-in-chief and he's not involved in any of the drafting of bills when it comes to Congress, which means this executive branch is possibly the most absent one in the history of the U.S.  

What Trump actually does is tells others what he wants accomplished and takes credit when things go right, then blames everyone but himself when something goes wrong, absolving himself of any responsibility.  I'm hardly impressed by his leadership.

What is wrong with deferring decisions to experts in their fields?  Unless there is a direction issue you want to change or deal with.  Maybe transgender or some strategy on troop deployment suggestions?  What did Obama or Bush do differently that you prefer?
What exactly would you want him to do as far as drafting bills?  He has had numerous meeting with members of congress expressing his opinion on things. It is not like he can actually write the bills or really even be in the committee meetings.  What did Obama or Bush do differently that you prefer?  I don't see him as absent?  What do you mean?  He is in the news and quoted quite a bit as far as why he likes and prefers. 
Telling others what you want accomplished is actually what leaders do --- they call that delegating.  What has he blamed others for that he wanted done and they didn't do?  Not sure what examples you mean here?
But use just the last two presidents, Obama and Bush, and contrast and compare please.  I need clarity. Unless you are just anti-Trump and ranting?  Which I get.  Just wondered if there were things to back you up in this? 
 
 
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Posted: #88
Quote Originally Posted by sundance:

Thankfully at this point in time we are not trading a traitor like Bowe Bergdahl for 5 enemy warriors. I will call this major progress.

He wasn't a "traitor" until after he was tried. Unless you don't believe in the constitution.
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