I dont consider a 10k deductible to be caddy insurance..nor have I read the fine print about what is covered, what isnt..how much script costs are generic and non, how much specialists cost, what the company is and if the providers I go to even accept it.
Dont try and simplify the situation..unless you are in a big group there isnt a solution that does not either fee you to death or leave you hanging if you arent 30 yrs old and actually need coverage.
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I dont consider a 10k deductible to be caddy insurance..nor have I read the fine print about what is covered, what isnt..how much script costs are generic and non, how much specialists cost, what the company is and if the providers I go to even accept it.
Dont try and simplify the situation..unless you are in a big group there isnt a solution that does not either fee you to death or leave you hanging if you arent 30 yrs old and actually need coverage.
It includes all of that. Wellness and prevention is covered at 100% , no deductible. No caps on anything. Hospital, scripts, 35 copay for specialist or general doctor, full out patients surgery, full mental health
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It includes all of that. Wellness and prevention is covered at 100% , no deductible. No caps on anything. Hospital, scripts, 35 copay for specialist or general doctor, full out patients surgery, full mental health
Uhc has the biggest network in the business. 10k that drops to 5k isnt alot. Big groups water down their insurance big time. The only thing good. About group is lower deductible
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Uhc has the biggest network in the business. 10k that drops to 5k isnt alot. Big groups water down their insurance big time. The only thing good. About group is lower deductible
Uhc has the biggest network in the business. 10k that drops to 5k isnt alot. Big groups water down their insurance big time. The only thing good. About group is lower deductible
I had Uhc a decade ago when there was a stretch of working for myself and I have to say I changed because of the higher costs for well care and scripts.
I think we had 7500 but it was 80/20 so if you actually USED the coverage it ended up costing more with scripts and having a few yearly issues than if you ponied up and had a lower deductible and better script coverage.
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Quote Originally Posted by waltertaylor24:
Uhc has the biggest network in the business. 10k that drops to 5k isnt alot. Big groups water down their insurance big time. The only thing good. About group is lower deductible
I had Uhc a decade ago when there was a stretch of working for myself and I have to say I changed because of the higher costs for well care and scripts.
I think we had 7500 but it was 80/20 so if you actually USED the coverage it ended up costing more with scripts and having a few yearly issues than if you ponied up and had a lower deductible and better script coverage.
Ok your opinion isnt going to change. You are going to keep saying that it doesn't do or doesn't do that, but you are wrong. But keep going on like you know all about it
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Ok your opinion isnt going to change. You are going to keep saying that it doesn't do or doesn't do that, but you are wrong. But keep going on like you know all about it
Ok your opinion isnt going to change. You are going to keep saying that it doesn't do or doesn't do that, but you are wrong. But keep going on like you know all about it
Well you arent sure yourself..that Uhc plan, what was the coverage for scripts? How much was it for generics and how much for non? How large is the list of even covered scripts?
How much was specialists and is it 100% covered? How difficult is it to obtain a specialist approval?
The equation isnt difficult..either you get watered down quasi coverage if you are not needing it and pay 250 a month or you pay up to get coverage that doesnt suck..oh and you better not have ANY conditions that are on the exclusion page or you are SOL..
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Quote Originally Posted by waltertaylor24:
Ok your opinion isnt going to change. You are going to keep saying that it doesn't do or doesn't do that, but you are wrong. But keep going on like you know all about it
Well you arent sure yourself..that Uhc plan, what was the coverage for scripts? How much was it for generics and how much for non? How large is the list of even covered scripts?
How much was specialists and is it 100% covered? How difficult is it to obtain a specialist approval?
The equation isnt difficult..either you get watered down quasi coverage if you are not needing it and pay 250 a month or you pay up to get coverage that doesnt suck..oh and you better not have ANY conditions that are on the exclusion page or you are SOL..
Script coverage is the same no matter the deductible. I give up . You know it all, no reason to try and explain anything else
That just is not at all true.
How could you know the details of all these plans? You have no idea how much the script co-pay is generic or non and the list of items on the NOT covered list.
What you call good coverage is a plan for someone in perfect health not using the policy, just going to the doctor for the yearly checkup or an occasional cold and cough.
What about the segment of people who actually need regular coverage and might need more than the bare bones minimums?
I had Uhc and needed a few specialized scripts back then..and I know the copays were HUGE for a non-generic..and the 80/20 up to the deductible ended up making the TOTAL cost of this grand coverage to be atrocious.
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Quote Originally Posted by waltertaylor24:
Script coverage is the same no matter the deductible. I give up . You know it all, no reason to try and explain anything else
That just is not at all true.
How could you know the details of all these plans? You have no idea how much the script co-pay is generic or non and the list of items on the NOT covered list.
What you call good coverage is a plan for someone in perfect health not using the policy, just going to the doctor for the yearly checkup or an occasional cold and cough.
What about the segment of people who actually need regular coverage and might need more than the bare bones minimums?
I had Uhc and needed a few specialized scripts back then..and I know the copays were HUGE for a non-generic..and the 80/20 up to the deductible ended up making the TOTAL cost of this grand coverage to be atrocious.
I know rhe script plans for the major 4. Generic is 15 / name brand is 35. There isn't a non-covered list as long as it is an approved drug. This is best plan you can get, not bare bones. The plans stay the same, the deductibles change.
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I know rhe script plans for the major 4. Generic is 15 / name brand is 35. There isn't a non-covered list as long as it is an approved drug. This is best plan you can get, not bare bones. The plans stay the same, the deductibles change.
I know rhe script plans for the major 4. Generic is 15 / name brand is 35. There isn't a non-covered list as long as it is an approved drug. This is best plan you can get, not bare bones. The plans stay the same, the deductibles change.
Saying the deductibles change modifies the whole thing..if the plan is an 80/20 and you have a 10k deductible and remotely use the plan at all then your effective "cost" for a family with a few medical issues and some scripts might run 10k a year.
I know last year we had a big medical bill with a few conditions and we have decent health coverage.
The issue is that costs are out of control and thus policies will keep going up, benefit down, deductibles up.
We keep upping the cafeteria ammt a year and still keep using it all.
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Quote Originally Posted by waltertaylor24:
I know rhe script plans for the major 4. Generic is 15 / name brand is 35. There isn't a non-covered list as long as it is an approved drug. This is best plan you can get, not bare bones. The plans stay the same, the deductibles change.
Saying the deductibles change modifies the whole thing..if the plan is an 80/20 and you have a 10k deductible and remotely use the plan at all then your effective "cost" for a family with a few medical issues and some scripts might run 10k a year.
I know last year we had a big medical bill with a few conditions and we have decent health coverage.
The issue is that costs are out of control and thus policies will keep going up, benefit down, deductibles up.
We keep upping the cafeteria ammt a year and still keep using it all.
Ok im done explaining because you keep saying is for healthy people or its a crap plan. Which is just bullshit and insulting. You only understand from your personal experiences. You dont understand that the government regulates these companies now and requires them to pay for everything if the advertise comprehensive coverage. That's why there is only a handful left. But you keep calling me out thinking I watered diwn the plan. If you didn't understand my analysis of 10k vs 2500 then you just dont get it
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Ok im done explaining because you keep saying is for healthy people or its a crap plan. Which is just bullshit and insulting. You only understand from your personal experiences. You dont understand that the government regulates these companies now and requires them to pay for everything if the advertise comprehensive coverage. That's why there is only a handful left. But you keep calling me out thinking I watered diwn the plan. If you didn't understand my analysis of 10k vs 2500 then you just dont get it
Starting at 10k and dropping to 2500 sounds groovy unless you need it during the early years of the coverage, or the plan changes things or premiums go up or exclusions get added on via a flyer in the mail.
I am not saying YOU anything..I am saying the plans are a mess because of system costs..that any provider of a good, solid plan without the loopholes and as you say wait periods on deductibles cannot stay in business.
Its akin to the Medicare and SS problem..well now we are HIP deep in a mess and we start looking things over. Where was this evaluation two decades ago and why do we allow script companies to pay their R&D off the backs of US citizens while the rest of the world gets generics?
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Oh I get it, I just dont agree with it.
Starting at 10k and dropping to 2500 sounds groovy unless you need it during the early years of the coverage, or the plan changes things or premiums go up or exclusions get added on via a flyer in the mail.
I am not saying YOU anything..I am saying the plans are a mess because of system costs..that any provider of a good, solid plan without the loopholes and as you say wait periods on deductibles cannot stay in business.
Its akin to the Medicare and SS problem..well now we are HIP deep in a mess and we start looking things over. Where was this evaluation two decades ago and why do we allow script companies to pay their R&D off the backs of US citizens while the rest of the world gets generics?
Keep looking for reasons to nit pick rather than reading what I have
said numerous times..our healthcare problem has nothing to do with
Obamacare, if that were the case we would have a history of the exact
reverse of what is the case for the last twenty to thirty years
I'm not nit picking anything. I'm providing an example as to why the government shouldn't be in the healthcare business.
Further, by adopting the position that healthcare had problems prior to Obama, you get to pretend ObamaCare hasn't made things worse.
Which is the point. ObamaCare has made a mess, a coming catastrophe.
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Keep looking for reasons to nit pick rather than reading what I have
said numerous times..our healthcare problem has nothing to do with
Obamacare, if that were the case we would have a history of the exact
reverse of what is the case for the last twenty to thirty years
I'm not nit picking anything. I'm providing an example as to why the government shouldn't be in the healthcare business.
Further, by adopting the position that healthcare had problems prior to Obama, you get to pretend ObamaCare hasn't made things worse.
Which is the point. ObamaCare has made a mess, a coming catastrophe.
Keep looking for reasons to nit pick rather than reading what I have
said numerous times..our healthcare problem has nothing to do with
Obamacare, if that were the case we would have a history of the exact
reverse of what is the case for the last twenty to thirty years
I'm not nit picking anything. I'm providing an example as to why the government shouldn't be in the healthcare business.
Further, by adopting the position that healthcare had problems prior to Obama, you get to pretend ObamaCare hasn't made things worse.
Which is the point. ObamaCare has made a mess, a coming catastrophe.
You have no proof of the opposite to claim anything about Obamacare.
The private sector has done a shoddy job for the last 3 decades trying to even out the problem, I dont think there is a finger to point at any party.
I blame the system enabling certain groups to have a monopoly off the backs of US citizens.
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Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:
Keep looking for reasons to nit pick rather than reading what I have
said numerous times..our healthcare problem has nothing to do with
Obamacare, if that were the case we would have a history of the exact
reverse of what is the case for the last twenty to thirty years
I'm not nit picking anything. I'm providing an example as to why the government shouldn't be in the healthcare business.
Further, by adopting the position that healthcare had problems prior to Obama, you get to pretend ObamaCare hasn't made things worse.
Which is the point. ObamaCare has made a mess, a coming catastrophe.
You have no proof of the opposite to claim anything about Obamacare.
The private sector has done a shoddy job for the last 3 decades trying to even out the problem, I dont think there is a finger to point at any party.
I blame the system enabling certain groups to have a monopoly off the backs of US citizens.
Ya im allegedly in the business.I know what you're trying to say and I dont disagree, but you can't accept the fact that the government couldn't budget this right. What makes you think it will get better in 2014? They would have been better off if the went after drug companies and hospitals.
walter, it is my understanding that the pcip program right now is a bridge program. Al the peeps that are in there now are in one group. Next year,2014, when the pcip program is fully implemented the peeps in that group will be put into larger groups and their costs should go down. As far as the govt not being able to budget correctly for the bridge program I won't attempt to guess at it.If you or I had the same info that the govt had maybe we could make an intelligent and informed conclusion as to why it was underfunded. Remember the govt probably relied on the healthcare industry for most of their info. Regardless any info that they recieved that wasn't correct would have an impact on their decisions.
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Quote Originally Posted by waltertaylor24:
Ya im allegedly in the business.I know what you're trying to say and I dont disagree, but you can't accept the fact that the government couldn't budget this right. What makes you think it will get better in 2014? They would have been better off if the went after drug companies and hospitals.
walter, it is my understanding that the pcip program right now is a bridge program. Al the peeps that are in there now are in one group. Next year,2014, when the pcip program is fully implemented the peeps in that group will be put into larger groups and their costs should go down. As far as the govt not being able to budget correctly for the bridge program I won't attempt to guess at it.If you or I had the same info that the govt had maybe we could make an intelligent and informed conclusion as to why it was underfunded. Remember the govt probably relied on the healthcare industry for most of their info. Regardless any info that they recieved that wasn't correct would have an impact on their decisions.
So basically people are freaking out and calling the entire thing a bust over something isolated and temporary...
Kinda seems like the typical "Cart before horse" argument that if you are antiobama then "anything" he does and "everything" about Obamacare must be completely wrong...
Honestly with the way the healthcare system was and the Medicare part-d debacle, things needed to get better... Honestly as a provider of medical services i am not sure of how this directly effect me as a small business owner... So it is hard for me to really have a solid emotional opinion good or bad...
Walter, you seem to have some pretty good insight into all of this.
I get your opinion on this part of Obamacare... But from your perspective can you tell me three things that you think the healthcare reform is doing right?
I am interested to hear your answer and learn more about what the benefits of Obamacare might be for myself and everyone...
Thanks in advance for giving me three things that you project Obamacare having a positive effect... (Put-er-there emoticon)
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So basically people are freaking out and calling the entire thing a bust over something isolated and temporary...
Kinda seems like the typical "Cart before horse" argument that if you are antiobama then "anything" he does and "everything" about Obamacare must be completely wrong...
Honestly with the way the healthcare system was and the Medicare part-d debacle, things needed to get better... Honestly as a provider of medical services i am not sure of how this directly effect me as a small business owner... So it is hard for me to really have a solid emotional opinion good or bad...
Walter, you seem to have some pretty good insight into all of this.
I get your opinion on this part of Obamacare... But from your perspective can you tell me three things that you think the healthcare reform is doing right?
I am interested to hear your answer and learn more about what the benefits of Obamacare might be for myself and everyone...
Thanks in advance for giving me three things that you project Obamacare having a positive effect... (Put-er-there emoticon)
You have no proof of the opposite to claim anything about Obamacare.
Actually, I have proof that ObamaCare has increased insurance premiums, resulted in people losing health insurance plans, and working fewer hours. This has been all over the news. And you pretending it isn't true isn't a response. Your comments on this topic show you're not at all informed, and I would argue are not interested in being informed.
This is all emotional for you.
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You have no proof of the opposite to claim anything about Obamacare.
Actually, I have proof that ObamaCare has increased insurance premiums, resulted in people losing health insurance plans, and working fewer hours. This has been all over the news. And you pretending it isn't true isn't a response. Your comments on this topic show you're not at all informed, and I would argue are not interested in being informed.
You have no proof of the opposite to claim anything about Obamacare.
Actually I do.
And unlike you, I've provided references.
I don't make silly assertions like you have.
As usual the typical reply from you.
So what proof do you have that the private sector has provided reasonable service and not exceeded average inflation numbers in the process?
The measure is not VERSUS the government, that makes no sense. Your claim has to be that the private sector has been able to provide a product that is reasonable in quality and not excessive in price relative to the general price levels of society.
Can you do that?
Of course you cannot because it does not exist.
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Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:
You have no proof of the opposite to claim anything about Obamacare.
Actually I do.
And unlike you, I've provided references.
I don't make silly assertions like you have.
As usual the typical reply from you.
So what proof do you have that the private sector has provided reasonable service and not exceeded average inflation numbers in the process?
The measure is not VERSUS the government, that makes no sense. Your claim has to be that the private sector has been able to provide a product that is reasonable in quality and not excessive in price relative to the general price levels of society.
You have no proof of the opposite to claim anything about Obamacare.
Actually, I have proof that ObamaCare has increased insurance premiums, resulted in people losing health insurance plans, and working fewer hours. This has been all over the news. And you pretending it isn't true isn't a response. Your comments on this topic show you're not at all informed, and I would argue are not interested in being informed.
This is all emotional for you.
That isnt the measure..the statement was you cannot provide proof that the private sector can provide this product in an efficient and cost effective way, it has not and you cannot suggest it does.
Well knowing you I am sure you will reply with the normal negative garbage deflection fun.
So please share with us how the private sector has efficiently and cost effectively provided this service and been at or below average social costs in the process.
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Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:
You have no proof of the opposite to claim anything about Obamacare.
Actually, I have proof that ObamaCare has increased insurance premiums, resulted in people losing health insurance plans, and working fewer hours. This has been all over the news. And you pretending it isn't true isn't a response. Your comments on this topic show you're not at all informed, and I would argue are not interested in being informed.
This is all emotional for you.
That isnt the measure..the statement was you cannot provide proof that the private sector can provide this product in an efficient and cost effective way, it has not and you cannot suggest it does.
Well knowing you I am sure you will reply with the normal negative garbage deflection fun.
So please share with us how the private sector has efficiently and cost effectively provided this service and been at or below average social costs in the process.
So what proof do you have that the private sector has provided reasonable service and not exceeded average inflation numbers in the process?
The measure is not VERSUS the government, that makes no sense. Your claim has to be that the private sector has been able to provide a product that is reasonable in quality and not excessive in price relative to the general price levels of society.
Can you do that?
Of course you cannot because it does not exist.
A typical reply from you.
It is totally non-nonsensical, has no basis in reality, and involves straw men.
Nothing, no data, no fact, will ever change your mind on this. It is all emotion. Government centric, government = good.
Acknowledging that would be a nice first step.
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Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:
As usual the typical reply from you.
So what proof do you have that the private sector has provided reasonable service and not exceeded average inflation numbers in the process?
The measure is not VERSUS the government, that makes no sense. Your claim has to be that the private sector has been able to provide a product that is reasonable in quality and not excessive in price relative to the general price levels of society.
Can you do that?
Of course you cannot because it does not exist.
A typical reply from you.
It is totally non-nonsensical, has no basis in reality, and involves straw men.
Nothing, no data, no fact, will ever change your mind on this. It is all emotion. Government centric, government = good.
Your claim has to be that the private sector has been able to provide a
product that is reasonable in quality and not excessive in price
relative to the general price levels of society.
Despite evidence that health care expenses are 16.2 percent of the
nation’s gross domestic product, they account for a substantially
smaller share of most individual budgets. Out of each dollar spent by
American consumers in 2008, a bit more than a nickel (5.9 percent) paid
for medical or health purchases, below the amount they spent eating out
in restaurants. Not surprisingly the percentage of income spent rises
with age.
Research from the Employee Benefits Research Institute (EBRI).
0
Your claim has to be that the private sector has been able to provide a
product that is reasonable in quality and not excessive in price
relative to the general price levels of society.
Despite evidence that health care expenses are 16.2 percent of the
nation’s gross domestic product, they account for a substantially
smaller share of most individual budgets. Out of each dollar spent by
American consumers in 2008, a bit more than a nickel (5.9 percent) paid
for medical or health purchases, below the amount they spent eating out
in restaurants. Not surprisingly the percentage of income spent rises
with age.
Research from the Employee Benefits Research Institute (EBRI).
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