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obamacare

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Captain
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Posted: #101
The fact that this was under funded or over subscribed, either way it is indicative of the system.



Um, not "bingo"
Not "bingo" at all.

See, fewer people signed up than were anticipated.

It is funny to watch you adopt the idea that because this was "underfunded" (it was not, that is a fact) somehow we can not assign blame to the people who started the program.

When it reality, the failure of the program demonstrates that government planners are clueless. It also demonstrates that Congress should not have anything to do with the healthcare market.
 
Captain
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Posted: #102
Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:



Bingo..

Exactly the point I was making above. The fact that this was under funded or over subscribed, either way it is indicative of the system.




From the article on the failure of this program:

Initial fears that as many as 375,000 sick people would swamp the pools and bankrupt them by 2012 did not pan out. This is largely because, even though the pools must charge premiums comparable to those for healthy people, the plans sold through them are often expensive.

But it was also because the pools are open only to people who have gone without insurance for at least six months. The result is that, while only about 135,000 people have gotten coverage at some point, they are proving far more costly to insure than predicted.

Many people who are uninsured go untreated, exacerbating their medical problems. When they finally do get coverage through a high-risk pool, they are in immediate need of expensive care.

“What we’ve learned through the course of this program is that this is really not a sensible way for the health-care system to be run,” Cohen said.



I realize you have little interest in actually examining this - after all, healthcare is an emotional issue for you - but I feel it is worth contrasting your opinion with reality.


 
Veteran
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Posted: #103
14, bingo
 
Veteran
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Posted: #104
Wall will still not get it.
 
Covers Linesmen
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Posted: #105
Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:



From the article on the failure of this program:

Initial fears that as many as 375,000 sick people would swamp the pools and bankrupt them by 2012 did not pan out. This is largely because, even though the pools must charge premiums comparable to those for healthy people, the plans sold through them are often expensive.

But it was also because the pools are open only to people who have gone without insurance for at least six months. The result is that, while only about 135,000 people have gotten coverage at some point, they are proving far more costly to insure than predicted.

Many people who are uninsured go untreated, exacerbating their medical problems. When they finally do get coverage through a high-risk pool, they are in immediate need of expensive care.

“What we’ve learned through the course of this program is that this is really not a sensible way for the health-care system to be run,” Cohen said.



I realize you have little interest in actually examining this - after all, healthcare is an emotional issue for you - but I feel it is worth contrasting your opinion with reality.




That isnt the point at all.

The fact that they ran out of money is the issue. Why did they run out of money?

What group is harmed by not having this available?

So you dont think that had this been funded properly with less restrictions then there would be a large number more participating?

You missed the point as did walter..because you arent looking for any point, rather you are looking to argue and make everything anti democrat/liberal.

The point is that healthcare inflation has been out of control for decades, forecasting is obviously useless and there are no realistic plans out there which are both affordable AND actually cover..especially for people who are in this situation and others who are without insurance.

Keep looking for reasons to nit pick rather than reading what I have said numerous times..our healthcare problem has nothing to do with Obamacare, if that were the case we would have a history of the exact reverse of what is the case for the last twenty to thirty years.

Yeah this concept is so difficult to understand, especially for scholars and people allegedly in the industry.


 
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Posted: #106
"they" will still not get it.
 
Veteran
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Posted: #107
Ya im allegedly in the business. I know what you're trying to say and I dont disagree, but you can't accept the fact that the government couldn't budget this right. What makes you think it will get better in 2014? They would have been better off if the went after drug companies and hospitals.
 
Covers Linesmen
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Posted: #108
Then why dont you understand what I and others have been saying for multiple pages here?

The government NOR the private sector has been forecasting this correctly..for twenty plus years, and for more in the future.

It wont go after the drug companies, we protect them and allow price gouging so other countries can offer the same stuff at 80% off list price.

Its called lobbyists..


 
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Posted: #109
I do understand your point, but obamacare is a joke. It has nothing to do with Republicans or Democrats. You're refusing to acknowledge that the government couldn't budget this correctly. You want to give them a pass. You didn't even know that a lot has been implemented, but you're the expect. But I'm lying.
 
Covers Linesmen
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Posted: #110
Quote Originally Posted by waltertaylor24:

I do understand your point, but obamacare is a joke. It has nothing to do with Republicans or Democrats. You're refusing to acknowledge that the government couldn't budget this correctly. You want to give them a pass. You didn't even know that a lot has been implemented, but you're the expect. But I'm lying.


You never defined ALOT, so how much is "alot"?

Any healthcare reform at this point is going to be painful and heaven forbid we try and institute policies that actually cover people.

There are plenty of other issues which are saddling the system than trying to expand paltry coverage for the lower tier.
 
Veteran
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Posted: #111
Will you stop for a second and think. Its not just to blame on medical cost. You dont think that obama and his people had so many reports on what the averages was for every medical condition?

He could have created a permanent pcip plan instead of making everyones insurance premiums go up 4 times the current price to pay for this crap. I told you before and I will say it again UHC is coming out with 20k and 30k deductibles to lower premiums for people
 
Veteran
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Posted: #112
what are you talking about they don't cover anything? If you are on a plan with one of the four major companies then it covers everything with no cap.

I told you the only thing not in effect is the mandate and the exchanges
 
Covers Linesmen
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Posted: #113
Quote Originally Posted by waltertaylor24:

Will you stop for a second and think. Its not just to blame on medical cost. You dont think that obama and his people had so many reports on what the averages was for every medical condition?

He could have created a permanent pcip plan instead of making everyones insurance premiums go up 4 times the current price to pay for this crap. I told you before and I will say it again UHC is coming out with 20k and 30k deductibles to lower premiums for people


High deductible coverage is garbage. So 20k deductible which would be 3/4 of someones yearly income?

Premiums have been outpacing inflation for a LONG time, we havent caught up to proper pricing much the same way SS and Medicare funding has been wrong for pretty much the entire time the program has been in place.

Prices will keep going up because we allow certain medical costs to be monopolistic, like drugs and the huge cost of technology.
 
Covers Linesmen
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Posted: #114
Quote Originally Posted by waltertaylor24:

what are you talking about they don't cover anything? If you are on a plan with one of the four major companies then it covers everything with no cap.

I told you the only thing not in effect is the mandate and the exchanges


At what expense?

The comment was that there are no affordable plans that also cover to a reasonable degree without quick tops or high deductibles.

Its akin to dental insurance..pure garbage that really doesnt serve much of a realistic purpose.
 
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Posted: #115
There is no caps anymore for major medical insurance. And obviously you dont understand deductible. Yes dental insurance is a complete waste of money. The reason they are coming out with these high deductible plans is because of obama care raising premiums so much
 
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Posted: #116
Quote Originally Posted by waltertaylor24:

There is no caps anymore for major medical insurance. And obviously you dont understand deductible. Yes dental insurance is a complete waste of money. The reason they are coming out with these high deductible plans is because of obama care raising premiums so much


Again..

At what cost? There is no such thing as an affordable comprehensive plan with low deductibles and no caps.

Major medical is not comprehensive..and you should know if you are in the industry that there are no plans that offer full service at a reasonable premium and that has nothing to do with Obamacare.

If your point was valid you would have volumes of data to show how prior to Obamacare we had stable, reasonable, affordable coverage options.

I dont know what you are trying to debate..the concept is not debatable.

Yeah I dont know what a deductible is..


 
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Posted: #117
Ok buddy. You have no idea about insurance, you have made that clear
 
Covers Linesmen
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Posted: #118
Quote Originally Posted by waltertaylor24:

Ok buddy. You have no idea about insurance, you have made that clear


Good comeback.

Are you trying to suggest that major medical is comprehensive?

Or are you trying to say there is in existence affordable comprehensive coverage that doesnt have high deductibles or quick phase outs?

Instead of saying insults why not explain what you THINK I do not understand?

I can promise you I probably know just a little bit about the subject..your responses arent doing much but deflecting.
 
Veteran
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Posted: #119
Wall, think about this. You can get a UHC pl. With a 10k deductible that drops to 5k in three years with an accident supplement, an CI supplement and a hospital confinement supple for 250 a month. Vs a 2500 deductible for 750. Ok the supplements in most cases will pay your deductible. You are paying $6000 more a year for the 2500 deductible
 
Veteran
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Posted: #120
For nothing. If you dont use it that year you are out 6k. Why not put that money in the bank instead of worrying about the deductible
 
Veteran
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Posted: #121
Major medical is full comprehensive coverage
 
Covers Linesmen
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Posted: #122
See all the loops and hoops you have to jump through to find even mediocre coverage?

I dont think there is an affordable solution..that is the point.

If the plan is affordable and coverage good then the company underwriting the coverage will be out of business.

The issue is the state of healthcare costs in this country..not if you can find a plan that if you do A,B,C,D and hope that some other exclusion comes or the plan changes itself once you have qualified for the "great" rate.


 
Covers Linesmen
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Posted: #123
Quote Originally Posted by waltertaylor24:

Major medical is full comprehensive coverage


I think we are discussing different things..

To me major medical is coverage for large hospital events, not for doctor visits, script coverage, specialist..

Maybe I am calling major medical something you call it differently.

To me comprehensive is a FULL service plan..script coverage, hospital coverage, specialist coverage without massive deductibles, exclusions and/or fast phase outs.
 
Veteran
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Posted: #124
Ha. Are you serious? Thats takes ten minutes to do. That is the best coverage you can get, not mediocre coverage. The plan don't change, it doesn't matter how many claims you have, the deductible drops 20% the first three years until it drops to 5k. If that thats all you have to gripe about, then you're not goi. To be happy no matter what and going to keep calling me like I dont know what im talking about
 
 
Covers Linesmen
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Posted: #125
Just for the great memories of health insurance searches past I did the quick quote from esurance.com with a family of four, mid 40s and kids that are under 12..

The options were 250 a month for a 10k deductible and up to 1500 a month for coverage that resembles what I have from the group policy at work.

Who knows the fine print of any of these.





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