I think what the issue is, like many issues with the current President is he opens his mouth and says one thing (prob believes it I guess) but most ppl who pay attention enough know he is full of doggie doo doo.
What I am referring to is his claim that heath care costs would go down under his plan.
We dont need to wait until the law is enacted in full to know his claim is false. His plan, yes his plan, is full of holes and "unintended" consequences.
I am all for fiing health care in this country but now we need to fix Obamacares 1st
The problem is we just don't know what the end result is going to be.
There is plenty wrong with ObamaCare but mandating people obtaining insurance would only have a long term impact because it will result in future expenses being paid.Will this help reduce costs in the long run? Some say yes, some say no.
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Quote Originally Posted by lordspoint:
I think what the issue is, like many issues with the current President is he opens his mouth and says one thing (prob believes it I guess) but most ppl who pay attention enough know he is full of doggie doo doo.
What I am referring to is his claim that heath care costs would go down under his plan.
We dont need to wait until the law is enacted in full to know his claim is false. His plan, yes his plan, is full of holes and "unintended" consequences.
I am all for fiing health care in this country but now we need to fix Obamacares 1st
The problem is we just don't know what the end result is going to be.
There is plenty wrong with ObamaCare but mandating people obtaining insurance would only have a long term impact because it will result in future expenses being paid.Will this help reduce costs in the long run? Some say yes, some say no.
one could say prior increases may be due to more unisured going to ER for treatment and not paying which is passed down the line to consumers.
one could also say that the rise in technology to treat paitents better and more effectively is expensive,
Well....no doubt that technology has increased costs in many areas (a good example is kidney stones which are now removed by laser rather than other methods, creating higher costs).
But look at the costs of physicals. Do a comparative analysis of the increase over the past 20 years.
It is as I have said many times....if auto repair shops only received 40% of payments due, they would be be forced to compensate on those services that are continual and necessary, i.e. oil changes and checkups, which are a vehicles 'physical.'
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Quote Originally Posted by lordspoint:
one could say prior increases may be due to more unisured going to ER for treatment and not paying which is passed down the line to consumers.
one could also say that the rise in technology to treat paitents better and more effectively is expensive,
Well....no doubt that technology has increased costs in many areas (a good example is kidney stones which are now removed by laser rather than other methods, creating higher costs).
But look at the costs of physicals. Do a comparative analysis of the increase over the past 20 years.
It is as I have said many times....if auto repair shops only received 40% of payments due, they would be be forced to compensate on those services that are continual and necessary, i.e. oil changes and checkups, which are a vehicles 'physical.'
when you say reduces costs, do you mean federal spending or insurance costs? Or both?
I separate federal spending from insurance costs. In other words, let's say the government gave one thousand dollars to every household to pay for insurance...obviously costs would go down, yet federal spending would increase.
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Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:
dj,
when you say reduces costs, do you mean federal spending or insurance costs? Or both?
I separate federal spending from insurance costs. In other words, let's say the government gave one thousand dollars to every household to pay for insurance...obviously costs would go down, yet federal spending would increase.
But it is fun to watch you pretend, after making 3 posts on health care inflation in the US, you're concerned about the costs relative to other nations.
Actually, the charts show both comparisons to other nations as well as the rise in costs.
We can measure the overall cost of insurance based on income through standard empirical data. When we start to examine specific policies in specific areas, it becomes more problematic.
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Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:
As we know, you can't respond to the question.
But it is fun to watch you pretend, after making 3 posts on health care inflation in the US, you're concerned about the costs relative to other nations.
Actually, the charts show both comparisons to other nations as well as the rise in costs.
We can measure the overall cost of insurance based on income through standard empirical data. When we start to examine specific policies in specific areas, it becomes more problematic.
Tell me how I'm an uniformed broker. Tell me how you know so much more about this subject than I do. You don't know anything about the insurance business. You just look at everything your way and think you are correct.
Yes, when pointing out a failure of ObamaCare, all you get is excuses and obfuscation by more questions.
OH, and we get this too:
A health insurance company headed by an old friend from President Obama’s days as a community organizer got a $340 million federal loan to establish Obamacare co-ops in New York, New Jersey and Oregon despite having a chronic record of consumer and regulatory complaints.
The New York-based Freelancers Insurance Company has been rated the “worst” insurer for two straight years by state regulators, and data compiled by a national insurance association show an extremely high rate of consumer complaints.
The firm was founded in 2008 by Sara Horowitz, who worked with Obama before his career in elective politics to launch Demos, a left-wing, New York think tank funded in part by George Soros.
Tell me how I'm an uniformed broker. Tell me how you know so much more about this subject than I do. You don't know anything about the insurance business. You just look at everything your way and think you are correct.
Yes, when pointing out a failure of ObamaCare, all you get is excuses and obfuscation by more questions.
OH, and we get this too:
A health insurance company headed by an old friend from President Obama’s days as a community organizer got a $340 million federal loan to establish Obamacare co-ops in New York, New Jersey and Oregon despite having a chronic record of consumer and regulatory complaints.
The New York-based Freelancers Insurance Company has been rated the “worst” insurer for two straight years by state regulators, and data compiled by a national insurance association show an extremely high rate of consumer complaints.
The firm was founded in 2008 by Sara Horowitz, who worked with Obama before his career in elective politics to launch Demos, a left-wing, New York think tank funded in part by George Soros.
I separate federal spending from insurance costs. In other words, let's say the government gave one thousand dollars to every household to pay for insurance...obviously costs would go down, yet federal spending would increase.
Ok, so when you say ObamaCare could reduces costs, which costs do you mean? Out of pocket, insurance?
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Quote Originally Posted by djbrow:
I separate federal spending from insurance costs. In other words, let's say the government gave one thousand dollars to every household to pay for insurance...obviously costs would go down, yet federal spending would increase.
Ok, so when you say ObamaCare could reduces costs, which costs do you mean? Out of pocket, insurance?
Ok, so when you say ObamaCare could reduces costs, which costs do you mean? Out of pocket, insurance?
Well, we know that insurance rates are directly corollary to medical costs. Pretty basic premise.
Presuming that direct hospital bills have increased due to the necessity of compensating for unpaid and received medical expenses incurred after people receive treatment, reducing those unpaid expenses would theoretically reduce inflated bills.
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Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:
Ok, so when you say ObamaCare could reduces costs, which costs do you mean? Out of pocket, insurance?
Well, we know that insurance rates are directly corollary to medical costs. Pretty basic premise.
Presuming that direct hospital bills have increased due to the necessity of compensating for unpaid and received medical expenses incurred after people receive treatment, reducing those unpaid expenses would theoretically reduce inflated bills.
On March 27, 2012, the Department of Health and Human Services released final regulations related to the establishment of, and the standards applicable to, Exchanges (45 CFR 155.10 and following sections (Exchange regulations)). Section 155.200(b) of the Exchange regulations directs an Exchange to issue exemption certificates in accordance with sections 1311(d)(4)(H) and 1411 of the Affordable Care Act (42 USC 18031(d)(4)(H), 18081).
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Read the 73 pages of new IRS regulations covering the Obama health law individual mandate
On March 27, 2012, the Department of Health and Human Services released final regulations related to the establishment of, and the standards applicable to, Exchanges (45 CFR 155.10 and following sections (Exchange regulations)). Section 155.200(b) of the Exchange regulations directs an Exchange to issue exemption certificates in accordance with sections 1311(d)(4)(H) and 1411 of the Affordable Care Act (42 USC 18031(d)(4)(H), 18081).
Program experience confirms that PCIP has helped uninsured people with pre-existing conditions who otherwise face surcharged premiums, temporary or permanent exclusionary riders, or outright denials of coverage. PCIP covers people with serious medical conditions such as ischemic heart disease, various forms of cancer, osteoarthritis and related diseases, and hemophilia and the lifesaving procedures they need range from chemotherapy to transplants. Experience with PCIP confirms that, while they provide critical assistance, high-risk pool programs incur a variable level of high subsidy costs to cover a limited number of individuals. It is important to recognize that PCIP serves only as a temporary bridge to reforms that begin in 2014. Rather than concentrating people with pre-existing conditions in high-risk pools like PCIP, the Affordable Care Act pools a substantially larger number of people with high and low health care risks in new health insurance marketplaces called Exchanges where they can choose private plan options without being denied coverage or charged more due to a pre-existing condition.
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Conclusion
Program experience confirms that PCIP has helped uninsured people with pre-existing conditions who otherwise face surcharged premiums, temporary or permanent exclusionary riders, or outright denials of coverage. PCIP covers people with serious medical conditions such as ischemic heart disease, various forms of cancer, osteoarthritis and related diseases, and hemophilia and the lifesaving procedures they need range from chemotherapy to transplants. Experience with PCIP confirms that, while they provide critical assistance, high-risk pool programs incur a variable level of high subsidy costs to cover a limited number of individuals. It is important to recognize that PCIP serves only as a temporary bridge to reforms that begin in 2014. Rather than concentrating people with pre-existing conditions in high-risk pools like PCIP, the Affordable Care Act pools a substantially larger number of people with high and low health care risks in new health insurance marketplaces called Exchanges where they can choose private plan options without being denied coverage or charged more due to a pre-existing condition.
i jhave a question or two. maybe this is overly simplistic, but if medical bills keep going up (i think we can all agree on that) and doctors are complaining about making much less money than they used to along with hospitals, where the darn is all of the money going? and why do we need insurance brokers?
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i jhave a question or two. maybe this is overly simplistic, but if medical bills keep going up (i think we can all agree on that) and doctors are complaining about making much less money than they used to along with hospitals, where the darn is all of the money going? and why do we need insurance brokers?
Program experience confirms that PCIP has helped uninsured people with pre-existing conditions who otherwise face surcharged premiums, temporary or permanent exclusionary riders, or outright denials of coverage. PCIP covers people with serious medical conditions such as ischemic heart disease, various forms of cancer, osteoarthritis and related diseases, and hemophilia and the lifesaving procedures they need range from chemotherapy to transplants. Experience with PCIP confirms that, while they provide critical assistance, high-risk pool programs incur a variable level of high subsidy costs to cover a limited number of individuals. It is important to recognize that PCIP serves only as a temporary bridge to reforms that begin in 2014. Rather than concentrating people with pre-existing conditions in high-risk pools like PCIP, the Affordable Care Act pools a substantially larger number of people with high and low health care risks in new health insurance marketplaces called Exchanges where they can choose private plan options without being denied coverage or charged more due to a pre-existing condition.
Bingo..
Exactly the point I was making above. The fact that this was under funded or over subscribed, either way it is indicative of the system.
The current system has no protection for people with conditions without severe cost increases or limitations.
The conclusion is that our system is broken and has been for decades. It is unfortunate that as a society we cannot see that our current situation can and does change and there is no way to properly forecast or plan for such.
I've experienced that in my family over the last 5 yrs..perfect health today is not guaranteed tomorrow, yet people who have perfect health rarely understand this and are not able to properly see that, focusing only on their health and their current condition.
I'd rather pay more over a longer period and prepare for the future needs which usually come and many/most are not ready for that which they are not currently experiencing.
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Quote Originally Posted by darkhorse12:
Conclusion
Program experience confirms that PCIP has helped uninsured people with pre-existing conditions who otherwise face surcharged premiums, temporary or permanent exclusionary riders, or outright denials of coverage. PCIP covers people with serious medical conditions such as ischemic heart disease, various forms of cancer, osteoarthritis and related diseases, and hemophilia and the lifesaving procedures they need range from chemotherapy to transplants. Experience with PCIP confirms that, while they provide critical assistance, high-risk pool programs incur a variable level of high subsidy costs to cover a limited number of individuals. It is important to recognize that PCIP serves only as a temporary bridge to reforms that begin in 2014. Rather than concentrating people with pre-existing conditions in high-risk pools like PCIP, the Affordable Care Act pools a substantially larger number of people with high and low health care risks in new health insurance marketplaces called Exchanges where they can choose private plan options without being denied coverage or charged more due to a pre-existing condition.
Bingo..
Exactly the point I was making above. The fact that this was under funded or over subscribed, either way it is indicative of the system.
The current system has no protection for people with conditions without severe cost increases or limitations.
The conclusion is that our system is broken and has been for decades. It is unfortunate that as a society we cannot see that our current situation can and does change and there is no way to properly forecast or plan for such.
I've experienced that in my family over the last 5 yrs..perfect health today is not guaranteed tomorrow, yet people who have perfect health rarely understand this and are not able to properly see that, focusing only on their health and their current condition.
I'd rather pay more over a longer period and prepare for the future needs which usually come and many/most are not ready for that which they are not currently experiencing.
Program experience confirms that PCIP has helped uninsured people with pre-existing conditions who otherwise face surcharged premiums, temporary or permanent exclusionary riders, or outright denials of coverage. PCIP covers people with serious medical conditions such as ischemic heart disease, various forms of cancer, osteoarthritis and related diseases, and hemophilia and the lifesaving procedures they need range from chemotherapy to transplants. Experience with PCIP confirms that, while they provide critical assistance, high-risk pool programs incur a variable level of high subsidy costs to cover a limited number of individuals. It is important to recognize that PCIP serves only as a temporary bridge to reforms that begin in 2014. Rather than concentrating people with pre-existing conditions in high-risk pools like PCIP, the Affordable Care Act pools a substantially larger number of people with high and low health care risks in new health insurance marketplaces called Exchanges where they can choose private plan options without being denied coverage or charged more due to a pre-existing condition.
Is it 2014 yet?
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Quote Originally Posted by darkhorse12:
Conclusion
Program experience confirms that PCIP has helped uninsured people with pre-existing conditions who otherwise face surcharged premiums, temporary or permanent exclusionary riders, or outright denials of coverage. PCIP covers people with serious medical conditions such as ischemic heart disease, various forms of cancer, osteoarthritis and related diseases, and hemophilia and the lifesaving procedures they need range from chemotherapy to transplants. Experience with PCIP confirms that, while they provide critical assistance, high-risk pool programs incur a variable level of high subsidy costs to cover a limited number of individuals. It is important to recognize that PCIP serves only as a temporary bridge to reforms that begin in 2014. Rather than concentrating people with pre-existing conditions in high-risk pools like PCIP, the Affordable Care Act pools a substantially larger number of people with high and low health care risks in new health insurance marketplaces called Exchanges where they can choose private plan options without being denied coverage or charged more due to a pre-existing condition.
i jhave a question or two. maybe this is overly simplistic, but if medical bills keep going up (i think we can all agree on that) and doctors are complaining about making much less money than they used to along with hospitals, where the darn is all of the money going? and why do we need insurance brokers?
You don't have to have a broker. What I do for my clients is , I get the prices because i'm contracted to work with a the top carriers. There is about 4 major companies left that do full major medical insurance. I go over all the details to make sure they understand the plan fully and advise them what would be their best option. There is a bunch of companies out there that sell crap. Theire plans are just mini-med plans that don't cover anything if you actually have to use it. I make sure they understand all of their options and put them in the best possible position
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Quote Originally Posted by ClubDirt:
i jhave a question or two. maybe this is overly simplistic, but if medical bills keep going up (i think we can all agree on that) and doctors are complaining about making much less money than they used to along with hospitals, where the darn is all of the money going? and why do we need insurance brokers?
You don't have to have a broker. What I do for my clients is , I get the prices because i'm contracted to work with a the top carriers. There is about 4 major companies left that do full major medical insurance. I go over all the details to make sure they understand the plan fully and advise them what would be their best option. There is a bunch of companies out there that sell crap. Theire plans are just mini-med plans that don't cover anything if you actually have to use it. I make sure they understand all of their options and put them in the best possible position
You don't have to have a broker. What I do for my clients is , I get the prices because i'm contracted to work with a the top carriers. There is about 4 major companies left that do full major medical insurance. I go over all the details to make sure they understand the plan fully and advise them what would be their best option. There is a bunch of companies out there that sell crap. Theire plans are just mini-med plans that don't cover anything if you actually have to use it. I make sure they understand all of their options and put them in the best possible position
sounds good.
anyone know the answer to my first question?
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Quote Originally Posted by waltertaylor24:
You don't have to have a broker. What I do for my clients is , I get the prices because i'm contracted to work with a the top carriers. There is about 4 major companies left that do full major medical insurance. I go over all the details to make sure they understand the plan fully and advise them what would be their best option. There is a bunch of companies out there that sell crap. Theire plans are just mini-med plans that don't cover anything if you actually have to use it. I make sure they understand all of their options and put them in the best possible position
To me the money is being leaked via script drugs..we allow these corps to have what 7-10 plus years patent to charge massive rates for their drugs which in other countries they do not have this monopoly.
An example.. Lyrica is a very popular and common neurological drug by Phizzzzer, it is on patent and the cost for Lyrica is huge. There is a generic called pregabalin (I think) but it is not allowed in this country. You can get it in Canada or India or most of Europe..same goes for MANY patent drugs.
As a country we pay for the worlds R&D, we subsidize based on our corporate friendly script monopoly.
Also litigation is a big issue, doctors arent making as much money because of high cost for malpractice insurance and the cost to obtain that medical degree keeps going up and up and up.
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To me the money is being leaked via script drugs..we allow these corps to have what 7-10 plus years patent to charge massive rates for their drugs which in other countries they do not have this monopoly.
An example.. Lyrica is a very popular and common neurological drug by Phizzzzer, it is on patent and the cost for Lyrica is huge. There is a generic called pregabalin (I think) but it is not allowed in this country. You can get it in Canada or India or most of Europe..same goes for MANY patent drugs.
As a country we pay for the worlds R&D, we subsidize based on our corporate friendly script monopoly.
Also litigation is a big issue, doctors arent making as much money because of high cost for malpractice insurance and the cost to obtain that medical degree keeps going up and up and up.
but why are doctors apparently making so much less.
the only part i'm fairly familiar with is the malpractice litigation. i can tell you, at least down here, it is very difficult to win a medical malpractice case. the insurance companies have done a great job of tainting just about any medical malpractice case. they say even the best medical malpratice case (you go in to get a cast on your broken arm and they take out both kidneys) is 50/50 at best. a guy i know in tallahassee said they go years without anyone winning a medical malpractice case. i know a few people who used to do medical malpractice defense but had to change areas because the cases dried up.
of course the insurance companies will keep the propaganda machine going and make people believe that although everyone is down on medical malpractice cases there are these magical juries that appear and award millions of dollars all over the place but i know at least down here, the good medical malpractice cases are few and far between. of course that doesn't mean the insurance companies still don't charge a huge premium.
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but why are doctors apparently making so much less.
the only part i'm fairly familiar with is the malpractice litigation. i can tell you, at least down here, it is very difficult to win a medical malpractice case. the insurance companies have done a great job of tainting just about any medical malpractice case. they say even the best medical malpratice case (you go in to get a cast on your broken arm and they take out both kidneys) is 50/50 at best. a guy i know in tallahassee said they go years without anyone winning a medical malpractice case. i know a few people who used to do medical malpractice defense but had to change areas because the cases dried up.
of course the insurance companies will keep the propaganda machine going and make people believe that although everyone is down on medical malpractice cases there are these magical juries that appear and award millions of dollars all over the place but i know at least down here, the good medical malpractice cases are few and far between. of course that doesn't mean the insurance companies still don't charge a huge premium.
What happens in say 2016 when an "illegal" shows up at the ER.
I say we dont deny coverage but does he/she pay the fine under Obamacare? Have to wash bed pans at the hospital for restitution?
Seriously, we will still have costs that are being passed onto us consomers. Granted probably not as large a sum as before, but with such porpous borders who can say.
And I am talking if we gave all illegals amnesty right now today.
How many new illegals will we have in 2016?
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QUESTION
Right now, an ER cannot deny care.
What happens in say 2016 when an "illegal" shows up at the ER.
I say we dont deny coverage but does he/she pay the fine under Obamacare? Have to wash bed pans at the hospital for restitution?
Seriously, we will still have costs that are being passed onto us consomers. Granted probably not as large a sum as before, but with such porpous borders who can say.
And I am talking if we gave all illegals amnesty right now today.
You are wasting your time when it comes to "trying to convince" anyone about rising costs in the healthcare industry.
Libs would rather believe a politician with a "D" behind his or her name as opposed to...
People in the healthcare industry when it comes to Obamacare.
People in the private sector when it comes to raising the min wage.
And to shift gears for a second, you may also remember when gas prices rose under Bush it was Bush's fault. Now that gas prices are rising under Obama it is everyone else's fault.
Was I right or was I right?
It doesn't matter if you work in the industry. They know better.
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Quote Originally Posted by canovsp:
Walter:
You are wasting your time when it comes to "trying to convince" anyone about rising costs in the healthcare industry.
Libs would rather believe a politician with a "D" behind his or her name as opposed to...
People in the healthcare industry when it comes to Obamacare.
People in the private sector when it comes to raising the min wage.
And to shift gears for a second, you may also remember when gas prices rose under Bush it was Bush's fault. Now that gas prices are rising under Obama it is everyone else's fault.
Was I right or was I right?
It doesn't matter if you work in the industry. They know better.
What happens in say 2016 when an "illegal" shows up at the ER.
I say we dont deny coverage but does he/she pay the fine under Obamacare? Have to wash bed pans at the hospital for restitution?
Seriously, we will still have costs that are being passed onto us consomers. Granted probably not as large a sum as before, but with such porpous borders who can say.
And I am talking if we gave all illegals amnesty right now today.
How many new illegals will we have in 2016?
Silly.
What happened if an illegal showed up at the ER before ObamaCare?
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Quote Originally Posted by lordspoint:
QUESTION
Right now, an ER cannot deny care.
What happens in say 2016 when an "illegal" shows up at the ER.
I say we dont deny coverage but does he/she pay the fine under Obamacare? Have to wash bed pans at the hospital for restitution?
Seriously, we will still have costs that are being passed onto us consomers. Granted probably not as large a sum as before, but with such porpous borders who can say.
And I am talking if we gave all illegals amnesty right now today.
How many new illegals will we have in 2016?
Silly.
What happened if an illegal showed up at the ER before ObamaCare?
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