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Public option gets defeated

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Posted: #101
Quote Originally Posted by KOAJ:




dsn/second - all due respect, nothing the government does helps to lower the cost of anything. regardless of the intentions of this program, government isnt the answer to bringing costs down in anything

The current system is broken- the costs are staggering- 
If those without insurance were brought into the existing Medicaid system ( with primary care providers overseeing care and directing referrals ), the quality of care provided these patients would improve dramatically.  Guarantee hospitals payment- even if it is less than they desire- and there may be hope for a decrease in escalating costs to cover the uninsured.

You are paying for the uninsured whether you realize it or not.
Why is the cost of an ER visit so high?  Because that's where the uninsured receive care that could be provided at outpatient clinics for a fraction of the cost-  When you go to the ER- you are subsidizing those that cannot pay.

Why is the cost of a CT, MRI, or even basic labwork so high in a hospital setting?  Same answer.

Rarely will a person go bankrupt for charges incurred in an outpatient / office setting.  The hospital bills are what absolutely destroy those without insurance-

The solution will not be easy; nor will it be popular.  Surely you would agree that we can't continue on our current path.
 
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Posted: #102
Quote Originally Posted by Dsn150:

Why not incrementally shift the currently uninsured into the existing Medicaid program?  Granted, there is shared responsibility between federal and state govt for Medicaid, but I don't see that as a fatal flaw.

Private insurance companies ( BC/BS ) take their lead from the federal govt ( Medicare ) as far as reimbursement guidelines and coding regulations, etc. go- so they are not as far apart as you would be led to believe.

Medicaid is actually a reasonably efficient program- while the reimbursement is a bit less than private insurers- the headaches are exponentially less.

Private insurers will deny claims for little or no reason, and put up almost insurmountable roadblocks to get some procedures / tests covered- I've never encountered this problem with Medicaid.

I'm not saying it would be easy- nor would it necessarily be popular, but in the absence of a viable option that can and will be instituted- I think gradually increasing the rolls of Medicaid is the most "doable" option available.  Change the name if you don't like the stigma associated with Medicaid, but it is a reasonably well-run program that is generally dismissed because few people understand it's intent (because unless you are pregnant, under the age of 19, or have a chronic or disabling condition, you are not likely to have occasion to deal with them ).

 
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Posted: #103
Quote Originally Posted by Dsn150:

How many towns in the US would you guess had only one family doctor?

How about none?

How many counties in the US have no OB/GYN's to deliver babies- requiring mothers to travel sometimes significant distances for prenatal care and delivery of their infant.

This may well be a problem in Canada- but is also a problem in the rural US-


 
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Posted: #104
Quote Originally Posted by Dsn150:


How many of these "bullet pts" hold true if you are a US citizen with no health insurance and no means by which to pay for evaluation and treatment?
 
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Posted: #105
Quote Originally Posted by Dsn150:


How many of these "bullet pts" hold true if you are a US citizen with no health insurance and no means by which to pay for evaluation and treatment?

Sorry- forgot......


 
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Posted: #106

Quote Originally Posted by be easy:



hey you're the Baby Boomer that got all beside hisself when i would point out how your generation was the me me me generation and have royally fucked my (the younger) generation with your short term thinking and all the me me meing attitude that many Boomers have displayed.  What's any different from you saying that your exceptional insurance is owed you because it was part of your compensation package, and the person who is looking for a break on their phantom income (people employed in many of these tech start-ups, and other industries would take stock options in lieu of salary, well in addition to,,,,,,when the companies stock goes to zero, they are left in the cold.  Do you think that we should all chip in and make sure they are garanteed what is 'rightfully' theirs just because some contract said so?  I think you've said before that you were a fireman, if that's correct, at least from what i've seen they are some of the best paying jobs in the country,,,,,,sorry, i owe you nothing

me me me generation 

 

First off BE EASY am not a baby boomer and part of the generation that you kkeep saying ruined your life.  Am only 47 years old, far from being part of that crowd.  I would bet every dime i have thou, that you wouldnt be talking to your parents like this.  Why dont you tell your Dad that his generation ruined your life, even thou all that money he made working in his life supported your ass.

After reading all your posts over the last year, i finally realize what kind of person you truly are.  Your nothing but a selfish person who hates other people for getting things you dont have.  Well heres a thought, its not other peoples fault because you arent able to land a good paying job that provides medical insurance.  Sorry that your stuck at mikey d's flipping burger.  But am 100 percent sure if you did work at a job that provided health insurance you wouldnt be making the posts you make.  Guys like you are all the same, hate others for what you dont have.

Heres a little knowledge for you, employers offer medical insurance other things to employees so that they can get good quality people for their jobs.  Also alot of places people trade wages for insurance, so its not some free handout like you keep saying.  The people that are going to get free healthcare, those are handouts.  I spent 25 years helping people on and off the job, so please dont insult me by saying i didnt earn it.

Heres a thought if the fire service is such a sweet best paying occupation, why dont you get off your ass and go take the test and get on the job.  Then you wont be here bashing others for getting a better job then you.

 

lastly the companies that offer stock options to its employees should have to always have the money on hand{and not be able to touch it} to pay its employees, even if the company goes under.

 
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Posted: #107
Quote Originally Posted by cd329:

 

First off BE EASY am not a baby boomer and part of the generation that you kkeep saying ruined your life.  Am only 47 years old, far from being part of that crowd.  I would bet every dime i have thou, that you wouldnt be talking to your parents like this.  Why dont you tell your Dad that his generation ruined your life, even thou all that money he made working in his life supported your ass.

After reading all your posts over the last year, i finally realize what kind of person you truly are.  Your nothing but a selfish person who hates other people for getting things you dont have.  Well heres a thought, its not other peoples fault because you arent able to land a good paying job that provides medical insurance.  Sorry that your stuck at mikey d's flipping burger.  But am 100 percent sure if you did work at a job that provided health insurance you wouldnt be making the posts you make.  Guys like you are all the same, hate others for what you dont have.

Heres a little knowledge for you, employers offer medical insurance other things to employees so that they can get good quality people for their jobs.  Also alot of places people trade wages for insurance, so its not some free handout like you keep saying.  The people that are going to get free healthcare, those are handouts.  I spent 25 years helping people on and off the job, so please dont insult me by saying i didnt earn it.

Heres a thought if the fire service is such a sweet best paying occupation, why dont you get off your ass and go take the test and get on the job.  Then you wont be here bashing others for getting a better job then you.

 

lastly the companies that offer stock options to its employees should have to always have the money on hand{and not be able to touch it} to pay its employees, even if the company goes under.


So...

What should we do- say "Fuck you- you didn't work your ass off to get this insurance" and just let them die?


 
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Posted: #108
Quote Originally Posted by SarasotaSlim:

 

I'll tell you who is a joke ..that would be a person who can tell you all about the Canadian healthcare system,( after a little toke ) but admits he never has used it or knows how the expenses work............ and say's he has no insight into the way it works, but has heard stories....... ...kewl !

 

"I was covered under my parents medical coverage until I was 25 and luckily I havent had to talk to a doctor or visit a hospital since. I really should schedule a physical but I don't recall how the expense for that visit would work, I'm almost positive it's covered but it could also be a percentage and that could vary depending on your plan etc.
 
I don't have any prescriptions thankfully but my gf's are covered, I'm assuming through her work.'
 
I'm really not the one to ask though because I don't have any really good insight, as my experiences are from my childhood and other than that just stories from friends/family.
 
I'm also critical of the pharma industry so I try not to fuck with prescriptions etc.
 
Instead I smoke hydro for nausea etc. (and creative inspiration of course)
                                                                     [Quote DiscoD69]

 

Slim,lmfaooooooo you exposed this little boy along with what i did to him today.  Now i understand why he doesnt really know anything, he spends his time smoking pot all day 

My guess hes the typical stoner who sits around the house all day waiting for another free handout from his govt

 

Hey Disco, get off the pot and then maybe you will actually be able to use your mind.

 
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Posted: #109
Tort reform wouldn't reduce costs significantly???
Insurance portability wouldn't increase competition and reduce cost??


I know doctors who pay a 1/2 million dollars in malpractice. Significantly reducing that would have a negligible impact on their costs right or is that obama is in bed with the tort lawyers??

Government health care is medical inattention with:

the compassion of the IRS
the speed of the DMV
and the efficiency of the post office
 
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Posted: #110
Quote Originally Posted by Dsn150:


So...

What should we do- say "Fuck you- you didn't work your ass off to get this insurance" and just let them die?


I have said it a million times and i will say it again.  I have no problem helping people to get some type of insurance, what i have a problem with is the fact that they are going to screw up the insurance of 250 million people just to help the ones who dont have it.  There are tons of ways for them to get insurance coverage to the people who dont have it, without having to take over the whole healthcare system.

 
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Posted: #111
Quote Originally Posted by esplanade:

Tort reform wouldn't reduce costs significantly???
Insurance portability wouldn't increase competition and reduce cost??


I know doctors who pay a 1/2 million dollars in malpractice. Significantly reducing that would have a negligible impact on their costs right or is that obama is in bed with the tort lawyers??

Government health care is medical inattention with:

the compassion of the IRS
the speed of the DMV
and the efficiency of the post office

 

why anybody would believe that the govt could run the whole healthcare system when they have failed at running so many other types of businesses.  Thats what i really find mind boggling.  It would be one thing if the govt was great at running business, then i would say hell yeah lets do a public option, but their not and all their going to do is totally ruin the system.  MAYBE THATS THEIR GOAL, TO RUIN THE SYSTEM

 
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Posted: #112
Quote Originally Posted by esplanade:

Tort reform wouldn't reduce costs significantly???
Insurance portability wouldn't increase competition and reduce cost??


I know doctors who pay a 1/2 million dollars in malpractice. Significantly reducing that would have a negligible impact on their costs right or is that obama is in bed with the tort lawyers??

Government health care is medical inattention with:

the compassion of the IRS
the speed of the DMV
and the efficiency of the post office

Tort reform would be helpful, but is not the real problem.

Doctors like to bitch about the cost of their malpractice insurance- but at the end of the day, it is a relatively small % of their overall expenses.  I would question the 500K malpractice premium ( what specialty, what % of gross income, any previous suits with judgent against, etc.)

Of course, the surgical specialties ( including OB/GYN ) will pay a higher premium, but they get reimbursed at a proportionally higher rate.

Medical malpractice, while often used as an excuse for physician behavior, really plays a small role in the overall cost of medicine.

Insurance portability is a great idea- no disagreement there.
 
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Posted: #113
That's pretty damn funny, Disco. Tell your gf she dates a real winner.
 
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Posted: #114
Quote Originally Posted by cd329:

I have said it a million times and i will say it again.  I have no problem helping people to get some type of insurance, what i have a problem with is the fact that they are going to screw up the insurance of 250 million people just to help the ones who dont have it.  There are tons of ways for them to get insurance coverage to the people who dont have it, without having to take over the whole healthcare system.


Elaborate please- 
 
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Posted: #115
Slim (and cd since it makes you feel so happy)- I never claimed to be an expert and I stand by not speaking about my close friends/family's medical experiences.
 
But what's painfully obvious, is that despite my limited knowledge of healthcare, I still know a shit tonne more than you
 
I know what I post makes you mad, but the truth hurts, I stand by what I said months ago in another thread, and thanks for bumping it, it proves that someone who admits to not being an expert can bring so much more to the table than you who likes to link to republican blogs spreading misinformation and claiming you know what you're talking about.
 
 
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Posted: #116
Quote Originally Posted by Dsn150:


Elaborate please- 

 

come on you cant be serious?  put them in the medicare system, pay for their insurance etc etc.  am sure theres alot of creative ways they could get insurance to the uninsured without having to take over the whole damn system.  Thats all am saying, dont ruin a system that is working just fine before other ways are tried to get people insurance who need it.

 
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Posted: #117
Quote Originally Posted by DiscoD69:

 Even if it is true, which I'm not even sure it is, Norwood is like a town of 500 people, with a huge hospital less than 20 minutes in two directions.

It's a tiny ass town, and if people are in that dire need of doctors they should drive 20 minutes to Peterborough and they'd be fine.

And even if this was true, and all those facilities weren't there, that's in no way shape or form reflective on the overall quality of care within a province, or even province to province.

Not only that but there are real problems with the Canadian healthcare system, that are actual problems and not more laughable propaganda cooked up by the right wing.

Of course I'm not gonna give you guys fuel for the fire so if you'd ever want to know you'd actually have to do some research on it.

Of course then you might learn that we spend close to 9% of our tiny GDP on healthcare, while you spend close to 40% of your massive GDP on healthcare, and ours is ranked better in terms of overall quality of care. In addition, we cover all our citizens, while you have millions of American people denied health insurance and treatement.

- The Boss

 
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Posted: #118
Quote Originally Posted by DiscoD69:

Slim (and cd since it makes you feel so happy)- I never claimed to be an expert and I stand by not speaking about my close friends/family's medical experiences.
 
But what's painfully obvious, is that despite my limited knowledge of healthcare, I still know a shit tonne more than you
 
I know what I post makes you mad, but the truth hurts, I stand by what I said months ago in another thread, and thanks for bumping it, it proves that someone who admits to not being an expert can bring so much more to the table than you who likes to link to republican blogs spreading misinformation and claiming you know what you're talking about.
 

No offense, but besides antagonizing- what ( by your own admission no experience with your own healthcare system ) do you "bring to the table" ?
 
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Posted: #119
Quote Originally Posted by cd329:

 

come on you cant be serious?  put them in the medicare system, pay for their insurance etc etc.  am sure theres alot of creative ways they could get insurance to the uninsured without having to take over the whole damn system.  Thats all am saying, dont ruin a system that is working just fine before other ways are tried to get people insurance who need it.


We may agree here- I would put them in the Medicaid system rather than Medicare, but either MIGHT work. 
 
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Posted: #120
Quote Originally Posted by DiscoD69:

Slim (and cd since it makes you feel so happy)- I never claimed to be an expert and I stand by not speaking about my close friends/family's medical experiences.
 
But what's painfully obvious, is that despite my limited knowledge of healthcare, I still know a shit tonne more than you
 
I know what I post makes you mad, but the truth hurts, I stand by what I said months ago in another thread, and thanks for bumping it, it proves that someone who admits to not being an expert can bring so much more to the table than you who likes to link to republican blogs spreading misinformation and claiming you know what you're talking about.
 

 

listen Disco, maybe your brain cells are completely gone from all the pot you have smoked.  No wonder you need to live in a country that supplies free healthcare because you could never get a job that actually provides you with it.

Listen you have been calling me a liar and saying i was making up the fact that a senator tried adding an amendment making all the politicians have to take the public option.  So today i post a link for you and then your stooned ass has the nerve to say that link was no good, so then i post a link right from our govts senators website and you try saying that the senator is lying and that link isnt real.

Well listen kid its as real as can be.  The truth is your stoned ass got owned by me and its still to hard for you to accept the truth that you were totally wrong and really know nothing about this healthcare issue.

 In fact your own words now confirm the fact that you know nothing.   Really stick to what you are good at, smoking your pot and getting high.

 
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Posted: #121
You are senile old man. Your emotions and comprehension of reality are slipping.
 
Sober up, re-read every thread, and get back to me I was talking to slim yet you cry about it.
 
You want to fucking debate me on Canadian healthcare? cus that's what I was talking about - to SLIM, who you like to copy as of late, who likes to link to republican blogs spreading misinformation.
 
So yes, I'm not an expert as  you guys claim to be
 
And yes, I'm not an expert of healthcare either, but again, it's painfully obvious that despite my limited knowledge of Canadian healthcare, I still know 10000000% more than slim, and the conservative blogger author of his thoughts & posts liike to claim they 'know' about Canadian healthcare.
 
So don't fucking cry to me
 
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Posted: #122
Quote Originally Posted by Dsn150:


No offense, but besides antagonizing- what ( by your own admission no experience with your own healthcare system) do you "bring to the table" ?

Let's try this again....
 
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Posted: #123
Quote Originally Posted by Dsn150:


No offense, but besides antagonizing- what ( by your own admission no experience with your own healthcare system ) do you "bring to the table" ?

Dude, dsn, respect - the first thing I asked cd about a month ago on this issue (before he went apeshit conservative) was his thoughts on the bill and his concerns on the bill.

he then went into rhetoric and made some claims, which I asked him to link - he then went ape shit on me, and I decided to stand up for myself.

 

--- 

 

My interest in the debate:

- When lemmings like Slim post misinformation about Canadian healthcare and how bad it is.

- Fundamentalism and the privatization of things that should not be private, like healthcare. (in this case it is already private so the goal is somewhat flipped on it's head)

 
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Posted: #124
Quote Originally Posted by DiscoD69:

You are senile old man. Your emotions and comprehension of reality are slipping.
 
Sober up, re-read every thread, and get back to me I was talking to slim yet you cry about it.
 
You want to fucking debate me on Canadian healthcare? cus that's what I was talking about - to SLIM, who you like to copy as of late, who likes to link to republican blogs spreading misinformation.
 
So yes, I'm not an expert as  you guys claim to be
 
And yes, I'm not an expert of healthcare either, but again, it's painfully obvious that despite my limited knowledge of Canadian healthcare, I still know 10000000% more than slim, and the conservative blogger author of his thoughts & posts liike to claim they 'know' about Canadian healthcare.
 
So don't fucking cry to me

 

Sorry Disco but i posted a link directly to a govt web page.  all senators have them.  They are all govt pages.

I owned your ass and you still dont want to accept the fact that you were 100 percent wrong.  FACE IT STONER YOU LOST.

Honestly i dont even know why am going arguing with a pothead, its clear your mond is all messed up.

 
 
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Posted: #125
Disco is your typical liberal nutjob who even when wrong and shown the facts wont admit that he was wrong.  Instead of just saying he was wrong, he continues to try and dance around the issue.
 
Hey DSN could you do me a favor and please tell our resident toker that this website is in fact an official govt webpage. 
 
 
 
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