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    All Forums | Politics

    Still waiting for all the Trump supporters to Hail to the "MR. MAGA" and his TAX PLAN

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    scalabrine
    ClubDirt
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    wallstreetcappers
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    scalabrine
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    Posted: Sep. 28, 2017 - 9:33 AM ET #1

    Batchelder and other experts note that the framework is very similar to the “Better Way” proposal unveiled by Ryan, Brady, and other House Republicans in 2016. The Tax Policy Center has found that the Better Way plan is extremely regressive. In its first year, the Better Way proposal would increase after-tax incomes for people making more than $1 million a year by 14.7 percent (or $329,530) on average, but middle-class families making between $50,000 and $75,000 would only see a bump of 0.5 percent, or $270. By 2025, fully 99.6 percent of the benefits from the plan would go to the top 1 percent.


    WHERE ARE ALL THE TRUMP SUPPORTERS HERE To BACK THIS? I started another thread about this. Crickets.

    Where is Mr. Drain the swamp!!!

    I'm sure the retort will be "fake news!" Who can trust the partisan tax policy center! Just as you all did with the CBO and TrumpCare.

    Yes we'll all take Trump's word that the corporate tax rate getting cut to 15 or 20% will mean more money in the middle-class pockets and more jobs.



    What an embarrassment...


    JUST KEEP REPEATING MAGA and maybe all your dreams will come true. Lol! $270 is coming your way Trump-it's.

    Hold on! Bob Menendez is not getting enough coverage on CNN and uh, Bernie's Wife Something or other! Lol!
    Reply
    To remove first post, remove entire topic.
    Batchelder and other experts note that the framework is very similar to the “Better Way” proposal unveiled by Ryan, Brady, and other House Republicans in 2016. The Tax Policy Center has found that the Better Way plan is extremely regressive. In its first year, the Better Way proposal would increase after-tax incomes for people making more than $1 million a year by 14.7 percent (or $329,530) on average, but middle-class families making between $50,000 and $75,000 would only see a bump of 0.5 percent, or $270. By 2025, fully 99.6 percent of the benefits from the plan would go to the top 1 percent.


    WHERE ARE ALL THE TRUMP SUPPORTERS HERE To BACK THIS? I started another thread about this. Crickets.

    Where is Mr. Drain the swamp!!!

    I'm sure the retort will be "fake news!" Who can trust the partisan tax policy center! Just as you all did with the CBO and TrumpCare.

    Yes we'll all take Trump's word that the corporate tax rate getting cut to 15 or 20% will mean more money in the middle-class pockets and more jobs.



    What an embarrassment...


    JUST KEEP REPEATING MAGA and maybe all your dreams will come true. Lol! $270 is coming your way Trump-it's.

    Hold on! Bob Menendez is not getting enough coverage on CNN and uh, Bernie's Wife Something or other! Lol!
     
    ClubDirt
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    Posted: Sep. 28, 2017 - 1:09 PM ET #2

    going with the kansas approach.  interesting. 


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trickle-down-economics-is-a-nightmare-kansas-proved-it/2017/06/12/c2d7aae0-4fa6-11e7-91eb-9611861a988f_story.html?utm_term=.d468bd4f1da0
    Reply
    going with the kansas approach.  interesting. 


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trickle-down-economics-is-a-nightmare-kansas-proved-it/2017/06/12/c2d7aae0-4fa6-11e7-91eb-9611861a988f_story.html?utm_term=.d468bd4f1da0
     
    I_Need_A_Detox
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    Posted: Sep. 28, 2017 - 1:26 PM ET #3

    The richest 20% of Americans by income aren’t just paying a share of federal taxes that would be considered “fair”, it goes way beyond “fair”, they’re shouldering almost 100% of the entire federal tax burden of transfer payments and all other non-financed government spending.




    Reply
    The richest 20% of Americans by income aren’t just paying a share of federal taxes that would be considered “fair”, it goes way beyond “fair”, they’re shouldering almost 100% of the entire federal tax burden of transfer payments and all other non-financed government spending.




     
    I_Need_A_Detox
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    Posted: Sep. 28, 2017 - 1:27 PM ET #4

    Trump’s proposal includes a dramatic cut to the corporate tax rate, from 35% to 20%, but includes a “surcharge on the wealthiest Americans,” according to AP. That corporate tax decrease is still less of a tax cut than Trump originally proposed, he stated for over a year that he wanted the top corporate tax rate to be 15%, not 20%.

    Reply
    Trump’s proposal includes a dramatic cut to the corporate tax rate, from 35% to 20%, but includes a “surcharge on the wealthiest Americans,” according to AP. That corporate tax decrease is still less of a tax cut than Trump originally proposed, he stated for over a year that he wanted the top corporate tax rate to be 15%, not 20%.

     
    I_Need_A_Detox
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    Posted: Sep. 28, 2017 - 1:48 PM ET #5

    Out of the 34 countries in the OECD, America ranks first with a 39.1 percent corporate tax rate, compared to an OECD average of 24.1 percent. The OECD figure is what’s called the statutory rate, meaning the base rate applied to corporate profits.

    Reply
    Out of the 34 countries in the OECD, America ranks first with a 39.1 percent corporate tax rate, compared to an OECD average of 24.1 percent. The OECD figure is what’s called the statutory rate, meaning the base rate applied to corporate profits.

     
    I_Need_A_Detox
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    Posted: Sep. 28, 2017 - 3:12 PM ET #6

    Cohn lighting up the press conference 




    Reply
    Cohn lighting up the press conference 




     
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Sep. 28, 2017 - 3:28 PM ET #7

    Its a garbage tax plan. Not only is it an insult to the middle class that voted this joker in, they arent even trying to hide that this is a 1% sandwich...instead they pull out all the trickle down mumbo jumbo garbage as if that will fool his loyal fan base..

    Wait...it will fool them, anything this clown says they actually think he means and will do.

    Reply
    Its a garbage tax plan. Not only is it an insult to the middle class that voted this joker in, they arent even trying to hide that this is a 1% sandwich...instead they pull out all the trickle down mumbo jumbo garbage as if that will fool his loyal fan base..

    Wait...it will fool them, anything this clown says they actually think he means and will do.

     
    sundance
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    Posted: Sep. 28, 2017 - 3:54 PM ET #8

    I was fooled from 2008-2016. Let's see what the final result is if and when we actually file under the new tax plan. There probably is a good likelihood that it does not pass. Quite a few phony Repubs in the Senate.
    Reply
    I was fooled from 2008-2016. Let's see what the final result is if and when we actually file under the new tax plan. There probably is a good likelihood that it does not pass. Quite a few phony Repubs in the Senate.
     
    lovethedough
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    Posted: Sep. 28, 2017 - 5:00 PM ET #9

    As a big Trump supporter,  I'm not sure I'm happy with the plan....  I expected more.. I feel like I would save 2k a year which sucks......  but everything is unknown until we know the breaks for which the 3 different rates apply.....Everything is speculation right now.
    Reply
    As a big Trump supporter,  I'm not sure I'm happy with the plan....  I expected more.. I feel like I would save 2k a year which sucks......  but everything is unknown until we know the breaks for which the 3 different rates apply.....Everything is speculation right now.
     
    lovethedough
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    Posted: Sep. 28, 2017 - 5:04 PM ET #10

    Looks like middle class Americans will be paying a quarter of their income to the government under the Trumptax

    I'd rather see it as $0-$200,000 at 12%, $200,001-$500,000 in the 25% bracket, and everybody $500,001+ in the 35% group. Then the real Middle class Americans will actually get a substantial and meaningful tax cut.


    Not a good first impression for me.  Plan looks swampy.   But mostly speculation .  

    Reply

    Looks like middle class Americans will be paying a quarter of their income to the government under the Trumptax

    I'd rather see it as $0-$200,000 at 12%, $200,001-$500,000 in the 25% bracket, and everybody $500,001+ in the 35% group. Then the real Middle class Americans will actually get a substantial and meaningful tax cut.


    Not a good first impression for me.  Plan looks swampy.   But mostly speculation .  

     
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Sep. 28, 2017 - 5:23 PM ET #11

    Speculation?

    Trump is just another typical Repub..cut social programs, give tax cuts to the wealthy and come up with some reason to give more money to the military. 

    Silly rabbits thought this charlatan would be something that he has NEVER been in his life. Trump is a spoon fed 1%-er yet some of you really thought he would represent the little guy.

    How many times do you need to get snowed before you start thinking for yourself and see what is in front of your face?
    Reply
    Speculation?

    Trump is just another typical Repub..cut social programs, give tax cuts to the wealthy and come up with some reason to give more money to the military. 

    Silly rabbits thought this charlatan would be something that he has NEVER been in his life. Trump is a spoon fed 1%-er yet some of you really thought he would represent the little guy.

    How many times do you need to get snowed before you start thinking for yourself and see what is in front of your face?
     
    lovethedough
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    Posted: Sep. 28, 2017 - 5:29 PM ET #12

    Snowed?  You're completely over exaggerating.  Calm down...deep breaths.  Breathe.  

    Better than doubling everyone's taxes so Pelosi and Shumer can fix the climate.
    Reply
    Snowed?  You're completely over exaggerating.  Calm down...deep breaths.  Breathe.  

    Better than doubling everyone's taxes so Pelosi and Shumer can fix the climate.
     
    Dsn150
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    Posted: Sep. 28, 2017 - 6:19 PM ET #13

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/most-americans-dont-want-or-need-a-tax-cut-2017-09-27

    Reply
    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/most-americans-dont-want-or-need-a-tax-cut-2017-09-27

     
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Sep. 28, 2017 - 6:23 PM ET #14

    Quote Originally Posted by lovethedough:

    Snowed?  You're completely over exaggerating.  Calm down...deep breaths.  Breathe.  

    Better than doubling everyone's taxes so Pelosi and Shumer can fix the climate.

    So tell me Trump has been in office about 8 months, so many promises and alleged changes he campaigned on...so what has been done that he campaigned on?

    The tax plan is par for the course, I am not overstating or exaggerating anything. His staff has come out and stated their approach, cut social programs and up the military.

    So who are we saving the US from? Outside Trump and his childish outbursts what do we need saving from?
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by lovethedough:

    Snowed?  You're completely over exaggerating.  Calm down...deep breaths.  Breathe.  

    Better than doubling everyone's taxes so Pelosi and Shumer can fix the climate.

    So tell me Trump has been in office about 8 months, so many promises and alleged changes he campaigned on...so what has been done that he campaigned on?

    The tax plan is par for the course, I am not overstating or exaggerating anything. His staff has come out and stated their approach, cut social programs and up the military.

    So who are we saving the US from? Outside Trump and his childish outbursts what do we need saving from?
     
    Dsn150
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    Posted: Sep. 28, 2017 - 6:30 PM ET #15

    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:


    So tell me Trump has been in office about 8 months, so many promises and alleged changes he campaigned on...so what has been done that he campaigned on?

    The tax plan is par for the course, I am not overstating or exaggerating anything. His staff has come out and stated their approach, cut social programs and up the military.

    So who are we saving the US from? Outside Trump and his childish outbursts what do we need saving from?

    So, if nothing has been done- why are there so many protests?

    One would think that there would be something to, you know, protest, to have so many protests..

    At this point, I'm not sure the protesters even know what they are protesting...

    The tax plan is pretty much what I expected- and, on a selfish level, suits me fine...unlike a lot of folks, I vote for my own self interests...
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:


    So tell me Trump has been in office about 8 months, so many promises and alleged changes he campaigned on...so what has been done that he campaigned on?

    The tax plan is par for the course, I am not overstating or exaggerating anything. His staff has come out and stated their approach, cut social programs and up the military.

    So who are we saving the US from? Outside Trump and his childish outbursts what do we need saving from?

    So, if nothing has been done- why are there so many protests?

    One would think that there would be something to, you know, protest, to have so many protests..

    At this point, I'm not sure the protesters even know what they are protesting...

    The tax plan is pretty much what I expected- and, on a selfish level, suits me fine...unlike a lot of folks, I vote for my own self interests...
     
    SuperSic58
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    Posted: Sep. 28, 2017 - 6:30 PM ET #16

    America doesn't need true economic growth thanks to the national debt a touch of inflation and all budgets are screwed anyway.

    Any president trying to get America on the right path will fail it's a damned if you do damned if you don't situation regardless of your politics.

    Gotta get back to attacking NK and Afghanistan  to secure rare earth minerals for our smart phone and laptops and servers.
    Reply
    America doesn't need true economic growth thanks to the national debt a touch of inflation and all budgets are screwed anyway.

    Any president trying to get America on the right path will fail it's a damned if you do damned if you don't situation regardless of your politics.

    Gotta get back to attacking NK and Afghanistan  to secure rare earth minerals for our smart phone and laptops and servers.
     
    lovethedough
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    Posted: Sep. 28, 2017 - 6:39 PM ET #17

    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:


    So tell me Trump has been in office about 8 months, so many promises and alleged changes he campaigned on...so what has been done that he campaigned on?

    The tax plan is par for the course, I am not overstating or exaggerating anything. His staff has come out and stated their approach, cut social programs and up the military.

    So who are we saving the US from? Outside Trump and his childish outbursts what do we need saving from?

    LIBERALISM ... he saved us from LIBERALISM 
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:


    So tell me Trump has been in office about 8 months, so many promises and alleged changes he campaigned on...so what has been done that he campaigned on?

    The tax plan is par for the course, I am not overstating or exaggerating anything. His staff has come out and stated their approach, cut social programs and up the military.

    So who are we saving the US from? Outside Trump and his childish outbursts what do we need saving from?

    LIBERALISM ... he saved us from LIBERALISM 
     
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Sep. 28, 2017 - 7:03 PM ET #18

    Quote Originally Posted by lovethedough:


    LIBERALISM ... he saved us from LIBERALISM 
     
    What the crap does that mean outside your obvious issues with that mystical word?

    What about Liberalism offends you so much? I've seen you complain about some generic term for a long time yet you never say what you are bothered by specifically.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by lovethedough:


    LIBERALISM ... he saved us from LIBERALISM 
     
    What the crap does that mean outside your obvious issues with that mystical word?

    What about Liberalism offends you so much? I've seen you complain about some generic term for a long time yet you never say what you are bothered by specifically.
     
    Dsn150
    Dsn150
    All-Star
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    Joined: Feb, 2008
    Posts: 11794
    Posted: Sep. 28, 2017 - 7:17 PM ET #19

    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

     
    What the crap does that mean outside your obvious issues with that mystical word?

    What about Liberalism offends you so much? I've seen you complain about some generic term for a long time yet you never say what you are bothered by specifically.

    I'll answer this one...
    I think there are 2 genders.
    I think marriage is between a man and a woman.
    I want to pay as little as possible in taxes, to fund the government as minimally as possible-
    I believe in personal responsibility and accountability-
    I don't care what you choose to do with your life- just don't send me the bill-
    I'll take care of myself and my family- you do the same-
    I need the federal government for very little beyond defense- I would prefer my taxes be on a local level...
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

     
    What the crap does that mean outside your obvious issues with that mystical word?

    What about Liberalism offends you so much? I've seen you complain about some generic term for a long time yet you never say what you are bothered by specifically.

    I'll answer this one...
    I think there are 2 genders.
    I think marriage is between a man and a woman.
    I want to pay as little as possible in taxes, to fund the government as minimally as possible-
    I believe in personal responsibility and accountability-
    I don't care what you choose to do with your life- just don't send me the bill-
    I'll take care of myself and my family- you do the same-
    I need the federal government for very little beyond defense- I would prefer my taxes be on a local level...
     
    SarasotaSlim
    SarasotaSlim
    Covers Rehab
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Jan, 2007
    Posts: 35522
    Posted: Sep. 28, 2017 - 7:19 PM ET #20

    Trump maybe  a spoon fed 1%-er..but one thing for sure ... he has never been is a Republican....if he were he would have NEVER been elected..
    Reply
    Trump maybe  a spoon fed 1%-er..but one thing for sure ... he has never been is a Republican....if he were he would have NEVER been elected..
     
    scalabrine
    scalabrine
    Banned
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Sep, 2006
    Posts: 28221
    Posted: Sep. 28, 2017 - 7:20 PM ET #21

    Credit where credit is due for someone on the Right (dough) calling it "swampy" which it is.

    Shows there is some granule of rationale in a right wing brain. 

    Dough, you will be fu**ed under this plan. There is no other way around it. As Club posted this is a classic trickle down plan which caused Kansas to be torn to tatters. And ultimately taxes will have to be raised to unprecedented levels just to sustain basic programs to make up for this disaster of a corporate and 1% giveaway.

    You could make the savings in this tax plan in ONE NIGHT of gambling. Give me a fu cking break.
    Reply
    Credit where credit is due for someone on the Right (dough) calling it "swampy" which it is.

    Shows there is some granule of rationale in a right wing brain. 

    Dough, you will be fu**ed under this plan. There is no other way around it. As Club posted this is a classic trickle down plan which caused Kansas to be torn to tatters. And ultimately taxes will have to be raised to unprecedented levels just to sustain basic programs to make up for this disaster of a corporate and 1% giveaway.

    You could make the savings in this tax plan in ONE NIGHT of gambling. Give me a fu cking break.
     
    Dsn150
    Dsn150
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Feb, 2008
    Posts: 11794
    Posted: Sep. 28, 2017 - 7:23 PM ET #22

    Quote Originally Posted by scalabrine:

    Credit where credit is due for someone on the Right (dough) calling it "swampy" which it is.

    Shows there is some granule of rationale in a right wing brain. 

    Dough, you will be fu**ed under this plan. There is no other way around it. As Club posted this is a classic trickle down plan which caused Kansas to be torn to tatters. And ultimately taxes will have to be raised to unprecedented levels just to sustain basic programs to make up for this disaster of a corporate and 1% giveaway.

    You could make the savings in this tax plan in ONE NIGHT of gambling. Give me a fu cking break.

    Which programs do you view as "basic"?
    My guess is that we will disagree, as I will likely think they are unnecessary or grossly inflated...
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by scalabrine:

    Credit where credit is due for someone on the Right (dough) calling it "swampy" which it is.

    Shows there is some granule of rationale in a right wing brain. 

    Dough, you will be fu**ed under this plan. There is no other way around it. As Club posted this is a classic trickle down plan which caused Kansas to be torn to tatters. And ultimately taxes will have to be raised to unprecedented levels just to sustain basic programs to make up for this disaster of a corporate and 1% giveaway.

    You could make the savings in this tax plan in ONE NIGHT of gambling. Give me a fu cking break.

    Which programs do you view as "basic"?
    My guess is that we will disagree, as I will likely think they are unnecessary or grossly inflated...
     
    I_Need_A_Detox
    I_Need_A_Detox
    Banned
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Feb, 2011
    Posts: 27139
    Posted: Sep. 28, 2017 - 7:35 PM ET #23

    Quote Originally Posted by Dsn150:


    I'll answer this one...
    I think there are 2 genders.
    I think marriage is between a man and a woman.
    I want to pay as little as possible in taxes, to fund the government as minimally as possible-
    I believe in personal responsibility and accountability-
    I don't care what you choose to do with your life- just don't send me the bill-
    I'll take care of myself and my family- you do the same-
    I need the federal government for very little beyond defense- I would prefer my taxes be on a local level...


    MAGA 
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsn150:


    I'll answer this one...
    I think there are 2 genders.
    I think marriage is between a man and a woman.
    I want to pay as little as possible in taxes, to fund the government as minimally as possible-
    I believe in personal responsibility and accountability-
    I don't care what you choose to do with your life- just don't send me the bill-
    I'll take care of myself and my family- you do the same-
    I need the federal government for very little beyond defense- I would prefer my taxes be on a local level...


    MAGA 
     
    Dsn150
    Dsn150
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Feb, 2008
    Posts: 11794
    Posted: Sep. 28, 2017 - 7:42 PM ET #24

    Quote Originally Posted by I_Need_A_Detox:



    MAGA 


    I thought this was common knowledge, and how people lived...it's sad that it has to be spelled out...
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by I_Need_A_Detox:



    MAGA 


    I thought this was common knowledge, and how people lived...it's sad that it has to be spelled out...
     
     
    wallstreetcappers
    wallstreetcappers
    Covers Linesmen
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Feb, 2003
    Posts: 58425
    Posted: Sep. 28, 2017 - 7:42 PM ET #25

    Quote Originally Posted by Dsn150:


    I'll answer this one...
    I think there are 2 genders.
    I think marriage is between a man and a woman.
    I want to pay as little as possible in taxes, to fund the government as minimally as possible-
    I believe in personal responsibility and accountability-
    I don't care what you choose to do with your life- just don't send me the bill-
    I'll take care of myself and my family- you do the same-
    I need the federal government for very little beyond defense- I would prefer my taxes be on a local level...

    Interesting...

    You seem to want all the benefits of living in this society without any of the downside...which is impractical and selfish.

    I share some of your opinions inside my house and there alone, I live in a society where there are other viewpoints, other sexual preferences for people and all these people live, breathe and exist here and they deserve the same rights and freedoms you do.

    I dont care about same sex marriage, it has no bearing on me personally and I know many many people who are same sex partners and I view them the same as I view you or me or anyone...it means nothing to me so my view is if the union exists inside the law and they are living a more fulfilling life, what else matters?

    Funding government on minimal taxes is impossible, you cannot live in a large society and want to stand on your little plot of land and not exist, you benefit from the government in many many ways and you cannot quantify that benefit and put a price on it...and the odds are HIGH that as you age you will start taking more proportionally than you do now and your narrow viewpoint will modify (exactly the same thinking my inlaws have and as they have become net takers on society their opinions have changed).

    You cannot force a standard of living or course of action on someone else...so you taking care of your family is nice and congrats for that but you live in a society where you cannot force others to behave a certain way, yet you live amongst them and so you are connected to them and everyone in society shares this connection and responsibility. I am not thrilled with how some people take more than they give and take advantage...but I am for sure smart enough to understand the concept of living in a large society and the downsides of doing so.

    You cannot pull the Texas viewpoint and this local schtick for the exact reason Texas cannot...you benefit from more than a LOCAL perspective by living in a large society...so unless you want to lose all the benefits of living in said society you will pay for that opportunity and it does not mean you can alienate yourself and yet take from the larger union. If you want to live as you are describing this for sure is not the country you should live in and it has never been that place. I do not think the place you want to live exists with the benefits and opportunities you receive with no downside or flaws..

    We had this discussion a long while back and your logic is flawed, you are obviously not understanding that the standard and quality of life you have is because of this society...you earn what you do because of this society, you have interstate roads and transport, you have a national electric grid and telecommunications, you have a beautiful country with many freedoms because of the society you live...with all its flaws and shortcomings, your life is better because of all the states and federal government..you cant pick and choose like you want, it is implausible and flawed in logic and you already know all this.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsn150:


    I'll answer this one...
    I think there are 2 genders.
    I think marriage is between a man and a woman.
    I want to pay as little as possible in taxes, to fund the government as minimally as possible-
    I believe in personal responsibility and accountability-
    I don't care what you choose to do with your life- just don't send me the bill-
    I'll take care of myself and my family- you do the same-
    I need the federal government for very little beyond defense- I would prefer my taxes be on a local level...

    Interesting...

    You seem to want all the benefits of living in this society without any of the downside...which is impractical and selfish.

    I share some of your opinions inside my house and there alone, I live in a society where there are other viewpoints, other sexual preferences for people and all these people live, breathe and exist here and they deserve the same rights and freedoms you do.

    I dont care about same sex marriage, it has no bearing on me personally and I know many many people who are same sex partners and I view them the same as I view you or me or anyone...it means nothing to me so my view is if the union exists inside the law and they are living a more fulfilling life, what else matters?

    Funding government on minimal taxes is impossible, you cannot live in a large society and want to stand on your little plot of land and not exist, you benefit from the government in many many ways and you cannot quantify that benefit and put a price on it...and the odds are HIGH that as you age you will start taking more proportionally than you do now and your narrow viewpoint will modify (exactly the same thinking my inlaws have and as they have become net takers on society their opinions have changed).

    You cannot force a standard of living or course of action on someone else...so you taking care of your family is nice and congrats for that but you live in a society where you cannot force others to behave a certain way, yet you live amongst them and so you are connected to them and everyone in society shares this connection and responsibility. I am not thrilled with how some people take more than they give and take advantage...but I am for sure smart enough to understand the concept of living in a large society and the downsides of doing so.

    You cannot pull the Texas viewpoint and this local schtick for the exact reason Texas cannot...you benefit from more than a LOCAL perspective by living in a large society...so unless you want to lose all the benefits of living in said society you will pay for that opportunity and it does not mean you can alienate yourself and yet take from the larger union. If you want to live as you are describing this for sure is not the country you should live in and it has never been that place. I do not think the place you want to live exists with the benefits and opportunities you receive with no downside or flaws..

    We had this discussion a long while back and your logic is flawed, you are obviously not understanding that the standard and quality of life you have is because of this society...you earn what you do because of this society, you have interstate roads and transport, you have a national electric grid and telecommunications, you have a beautiful country with many freedoms because of the society you live...with all its flaws and shortcomings, your life is better because of all the states and federal government..you cant pick and choose like you want, it is implausible and flawed in logic and you already know all this.
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