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Why is Tulsa kicking the extra point?

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Posted: #51

Quote Originally Posted by MoosedAgain:



Wow. Where to begin with this?

The game was not won with seven minutes left. Just ask the New York Giants if they hand out prizes up three touchdowns after 53 minutes.

The end of Indianapolis/Tennessee featured a touchdown as time expired to make the score 30-27. Under NFL rules you have to attempt a PAT. Are you insinuating that the Titans kicked an extra point to avoid an injury if they went for two? That is laughable. Neither option resulted in a win so they took the easiest scoring option available, the extra point and a 30-28 final.

Are you also insinuating that the Golden Hurricane feared injury so much that they were willing to kick an extra point rather than try to put themselves in better position to win the football game by going for two? I think the 80+ members of the Tulsa football team would take that as an insult.

 

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Posted: #52

This is a silly argument that wasnt even supposed to be an argument.

I can post that the sky is blue and there would be at least 10 haters that come to claim it isn't.

It is clear that (except for 165) the opposition has a personal issue with the best 500 capper at covers, and they would debate anything.  Train has taken up so many losing debates against me, he has nothing to lose at this point.

Their side is that the statistical percentage chart that shows overwhelmingly you should go for it is wrong - and then Train compares it to a blackjack chart.  OK train, this isnt a 16 against a 10, this is a 16 against a 6.  Try to tell me when the chart doesnt apply to stay on a 16 against a 6?  Thought so....

The percentage is 24%, it is one of the lowest on the chart.  Tulsa's percentage is probably 70% there, making it overwhelming.  It isnt even close.  Go ahead dopes, tell me how my mama is ugly, or you hate my avatar.  Cant wait.

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Posted: #53
Moosedagain, you seriously thought that Hawaii were coming back to win the game with that woeful performance(int after int after int)? At that point, you can tell Hawaii had given up.
 
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Posted: #54

Quote Originally Posted by willywagtail:

Moosedagain, you seriously thought that Hawaii were coming back to win the game with that woeful performance(int after int after int)? At that point, you can tell Hawaii had given up.

So with 7 minutes left, in a game where either team can score instantly, you are going to tell me that the game is over?

Sorry pal - but I think you are alone on this.  Even the dumbells taking up the other cause isnt coming to your aid on this one.

Let me get this straight - your position is that because you say the game is over because you are up by 19, you kick the EP because you dont want to risk an injury?  Anyone siding with that?

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Posted: #55
Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

This is a silly argument that wasnt even supposed to be an argument.

I can post that the sky is blue and there would be at least 10 haters that come to claim it isn't.

It is clear that (except for 165) the opposition has a personal issue with the best 500 capper at covers, and they would debate anything.  Train has taken up so many losing debates against me, he has nothing to lose at this point.

Their side is that the statistical percentage chart that shows overwhelmingly you should go for it is wrong - and then Train compares it to a blackjack chart.  OK train, this isnt a 16 against a 10, this is a 16 against a 6.  Try to tell me when the chart doesnt apply to stay on a 16 against a 6?  Thought so....

The percentage is 24%, it is one of the lowest on the chart.  Tulsa's percentage is probably 70% there, making it overwhelming.  It isnt even close.  Go ahead dopes, tell me how my mama is ugly, or you hate my avatar.  Cant wait.

Oh - I forgot to also mention that THERE WAS A PENALTY MOVING IT HALF THE DISTANCE TO THE GOAL LINE.

Jeesh.

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Posted: #56
zack, seriously just go apply for a coaching job right now. Carolina Panthers really do need a man of your caliber.

Week after week, you create threads questioning this and that, clock management stupidity, scoring too fast, probability issues. All talk but no action. Go prove it on the field so we can see how you fare.
 
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Posted: #57

Jesus Christ I can't believe for one second that Tulsa's coach is some kind of a fuckin genius because he didn't go for 2 up 19.

He was probably in shock that his defense actually fielded 11 players instead of the usual 7 that they played with all year and couldn't believe they got a few stops that he has never seen before, nevermind the turnovers they stumbled upon.

 
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Posted: #58
Quote Originally Posted by willywagtail:

Moosedagain, you seriously thought that Hawaii were coming back to win the game with that woeful performance(int after int after int)? At that point, you can tell Hawaii had given up.


How do I know if Hawaii is coming back or not? Did you think when the Giants went up 31-10 with eight minutes left that the Eagles would score 28 points to win 38-31? In 2003, did you think the Colts would score three touchdowns over the final 3:37 of the fourth quarter in Tampa Bay to force overtime and eventually beat the Bucs 38-35? The answer is no. These are extreme situations but the point is they happen. You can't foresee them happening but you have to plan for it as a head coach, and the proper call tonight was Tulsa going for two to try to push the lead to 21.

As a sidenote, I think Greg Salas would take umbrage with your calling his 13-catch, 214-yard, two TD performance "woeful".
 
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Posted: #59

the way the offense was going........... you go for 2.

 

 

Van is right

 

 
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Posted: #60
I wonder if someone can list the last game where the one team was down 19 points in the 4th quarter and scored two touchdowns and two 2 point conversions along with a game tying field goal because the other team missed the 2 point conversion when leading by 19.
 
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Posted: #61

Quote Originally Posted by willywagtail:

zack, seriously just go apply for a coaching job right now. Carolina Panthers really do need a man of your caliber.

Week after week, you create threads questioning this and that, clock management stupidity, scoring too fast, probability issues. All talk but no action. Go prove it on the field so we can see how you fare.

I have had multiple offers but it all falls apart when they do the background check and find my covers account.  Seems the NFL and NCAA are still hesitant to get in business with a gambler.

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Posted: #62
Quote Originally Posted by MoosedAgain:



How do I know if Hawaii is coming back or not? Did you think when the Giants went up 31-10 with eight minutes left that the Eagles would score 28 points to win 38-31? In 2003, did you think the Colts would score three touchdowns over the final 3:37 of the fourth quarter in Tampa Bay to force overtime and eventually beat the Bucs 38-35? The answer is no. These are extreme situations but the point is they happen. You can't foresee them happening but you have to plan for it as a head coach, and the proper call tonight was Tulsa going for two to try to push the lead to 21.

As a sidenote, I think Greg Salas would take umbrage with your calling his 13-catch, 214-yard, two TD performance "woeful".


Why do you give NFL examples? This is NCAAF. You seriously think HAWAII were going to score three unanswered? Whats the worst that can happen if you don't go for two? You lose the game. Whats the worst that can happen if you go for two? You risk a serious injury. Do you want to be bedridden for life or do you want to win a game that has no long term ramifications?
 
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Posted: #63
Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

I have had multiple offers but it all falls apart when they do the background check and find my covers account.  Seems the NFL and NCAA are still hesitant to get in business with a gambler.



What a waste. It's a lock that the Panthers will win the superbowl next year with you as head coach.
 
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Posted: #64
Vanzack is 100% correct.
 
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Posted: #65
Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

OK.  You winl  You beat the chart, no - you beat every chart, and you beat every other coach who ever went for it in that exact situation.

Your stance is that because the coach didnt do it, it is right.  OK.  Whatever.

And your argument is hilarious - the situation of the game is why they didnt do it.  In fact, the situation of that game makes it even more of an argument to go for it considering the pace of scoring.  You dont even know when your choice of stance works against you.

This 500 capper at least knows what probability is, and how to apply it.  Maybe that is what makes you so great at capping - the ability to think outside of math - but I think I will stick with it.

And if 500 capping can make you a living for 8 years running now without a real job, and also make 2010 my most profitable (by far), then maybe you should start inquiring about the secrets of us 500 cappers.



Wow. If you had been following me this year you probably could have retired

What happens when you have a bad year and have nothing to fall back on?  What are the percentages of that happening?

Also, you aren't "applying probability". Hawaii probably should have won this game because it wasnt probable they would have 6 1st half turnovers.....Dont let numbers on a piece of paper make your decisions

Merry xmas
 
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Posted: #66
Quote Originally Posted by willywagtail:



Why do you give NFL examples? This is NCAAF. You seriously think HAWAII were going to score three unanswered? Whats the worst that can happen if you don't go for two? You lose the game. Whats the worst that can happen if you go for two? You risk a serious injury. Do you want to be bedridden for life or do you want to win a game that has no long term ramifications?


This happens so frequently in games that I've noticed when it is offered as a prop on 5dimes ("will one team score three times in a row"), the "NO" side is actually significantly plus juice. That should answer your question. Happens all the time.

Any argument that you don't go for 2 because of injury is completely ridiculous if it is in a "must win" game (and for college programs, aren't basically only rivalry and bowl games "must win" games?). You're talking about 1 extra offensive play in a game that has a ton of offensive plays. The increased percentage of risk of injury is negligible on one more play.
 
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Posted: #67
Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

This is a silly argument that wasnt even supposed to be an argument.

I can post that the sky is blue and there would be at least 10 haters that come to claim it isn't.

It is clear that (except for 165) the opposition has a personal issue with the best 500 capper at covers, and they would debate anything.  Train has taken up so many losing debates against me, he has nothing to lose at this point.

Their side is that the statistical percentage chart that shows overwhelmingly you should go for it is wrong - and then Train compares it to a blackjack chart.  OK train, this isnt a 16 against a 10, this is a 16 against a 6.  Try to tell me when the chart doesnt apply to stay on a 16 against a 6?  Thought so....

The percentage is 24%, it is one of the lowest on the chart.  Tulsa's percentage is probably 70% there, making it overwhelming.  It isnt even close.  Go ahead dopes, tell me how my mama is ugly, or you hate my avatar.  Cant wait.



No one has ever "won" a debate with you because you are right before you make the thread

Is that a soft 16 vs a 6? What position are you in? How many decks in the shoe? Whats the count? Is the table running hot or cold? Who cut the deck? How many players? Are you playing one hand or 2?

Thats 8 questions the chart cant answer. Only experience and playing can.....


 
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Posted: #68
Van you getting too worked up man.  If they cant see it was the wrong move even after moosedagain explain it, they just arent going to get it.  Its like reprimanding a dog.  Your wasting your time.
 
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Posted: #69
Quote Originally Posted by willywagtail:



Why do you give NFL examples? This is NCAAF. You seriously think HAWAII were going to score three unanswered? Whats the worst that can happen if you don't go for two? You lose the game. Whats the worst that can happen if you go for two? You risk a serious injury. Do you want to be bedridden for life or do you want to win a game that has no long term ramifications?


If Tulsa was afraid of injury it would have just forfeited the game and never made the nearly 4,000 mile trip to Hawaii.
 
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Posted: #70
Bowl games are must win games? Come on.. the players are not paid a single cent. Other than pride and bragging rights, whats there to gain? Will you get killed if you don't win?

If you get injured, you have a lot to lose.
 
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Posted: #71
Quote Originally Posted by MoosedAgain:



If Tulsa was afraid of injury it would have just forfeited the game and never made the nearly 4,000 mile trip to Hawaii.


Who wouldn't want to go to Hawaii? It's paradise man.
 
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Posted: #72
Quote Originally Posted by 165yds:

I'm stunned you think your're correct.  If it's 12 OK.  But not 19, if you suggested this to any NFL coach they would laugh you off the field.  Now we're chasing points up DD?   


first off... at least half the NFL coaches wouldn't have any clue what to do if they didn't have the chart, and some of those don't know what to do even with the chart...

second... the chart is idiotic... it doesn't take into consideration game situations... like how much time is left, whether or not their opponent is a strong defensive team, etc... and even if it did, it is still wrong about several points...

third... the chart was made by mathematicians, not football experts... the best coaches in college and pros don't refer to the chart, because they can size up situations on a case by case basis... which is the correct way to do it... seriously, any coach that even needs a chart to tell them when to go for 2 has issues...
 
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Posted: #73
Quote Originally Posted by TRAIN69:



No one has ever "won" a debate with you because you are right before you make the thread

Is that a soft 16 vs a 6? What position are you in? How many decks in the shoe? Whats the count? Is the table running hot or cold? Who cut the deck? How many players? Are you playing one hand or 2?

Thats 8 questions the chart cant answer. Only experience and playing can.....




were you being serious with those two questions?  seems like you are just argueing to argue...
 
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Posted: #74

This thread is 3/5 to make the archives by the end of football season.  It's bursting at the seams with potential.

 
 
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Posted: #75
Being up by 20 is much different than up by 19

20 + FG = 23 pts = 3 TD + 2 2-pts conversion + 1 extra point
In case Hawaii misses on of the 2 points conversion, they are will not have enough for 23 points.

19 + FG = 22 pts = 3 TD + 2 2-pts conversion
Hawaii just need to make 2 2-pts conversion out of three tries.

If Hawaii can actually score TDs, they will attempt onside kicks giving Tulsa short field for at least one cheap FG (out of three onside kicks) therefore going for (1) getting 20 points with the plan of getting at least 1 FG is the right call (at least to me).




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