Do cloth masks work?

I brought wine coolers to babysit but there's no Chris Hanson. I've got a flocked of crazy druggie chicks, they worship me like i'm Manson. Handsome like i'm Ted Danson but you won't see it through the black face. Mask on like i'm like i'm Rex and yes i'm winning the race. Faster than the Mach 5, I quick draw with the stick. My little brother is a chump so I gave trixie the dick. She came on down my rabbit hole, couldn't say no to the bait. I'll shoot my rabbit up in Alice, I hope she don't come back late.

My numbers are great. Most people would say I have the best numbers. 

Trump2024 

Only a nut still believes masks work the way the media has led folks to believe:

https://www.aier.org/article/the-cdcs-mask-mandate-study-debunked/

https://thefederalist.com/2020/11/02/only-science-deniers-believe-in-a-national-mask-mandate/

Nice link showing when the various places went under the mandates and then the rise of cases on the graphs. 

https://thefederalist.com/2020/10/29/these-12-graphs-show-mask-mandates-do-nothing-to-stop-covid/

Also, compare the countries that did NOT go under the mandate to the ones that did. Same situation. 

For example:

“At the outset are the key words. If you look at a Bell Curve, you see a significant increase followed by a rapid fall off. When this began, we were told we had to flatten the curve. The problem with that, is that as the curve was flattened, the amount of time it took to reach the end of the graph has been extended, actually spreading the time we have had to suffer. Please do not forget that by forcing people to avoid restaurants and gatherings, where the air could be scrubbed, and into private homes where more people would gather within a stale air environment actually spread the disease. Yes, people were told to stay within their own households. I am sure EVERYONE followed those rules, especially the youth who would meet with friends when they would otherwise be in school. Bottom line? Sweden had it's own share of deaths but at least they were allowed to enjoy what life they had, rather than cower inside and merely exist.”

@Raiders22

 If I was to hock loogie on you, would you rather me do it with a mask on, or with no mask? I really don't want to be a part of this debate but more nuts than people who believe everything that the media tells them are mask deniers who say they don't work when literally a mask is really only to keep people from spraying spittle everywhere. And in that pursuit, they work. You can't simply say, "Look, these places had mask mandates and people still got sick." It doesn't take into account thinks such as how well mandates were followed, how bad numbers would have been without masks, ect. There's no concrete baseline data to say how well they do or do not work but you don't need statistical analysis to answer the question, "Do they catch come spit?" Just common sense. All debates involving this virus have nothing to do with science and everything to do with politics. 

Yeah -- that is not the spreading that is happening.  Not the spit.  They admit, obviously, they would stop spit.  But airborne, not nearly as much.  That is why the spread and the curve did not reflect any drop in cases once the mandates were put in place.  In fact, just the opposite happened.  ALL the charts show this.  Very easy to see.

Also, the archaic six-feet rule was not effective at all.

Staying at home did not help.

Still comes down to the same thing. Washing hands and isolating the sick, etc.  NOT isolating the well and masking and locking down.

Too much data now demonstrate this very, very easily. 

So, sure, if it makes you happy -- wear a mask.  But they simply are not effective.  Older studies show it and even studies since Wuhan show it.

@Raiders22

 And this is coming from a guy who does not support mask mandates and who vehemently opposes lockdowns. You are smart enough to know you can't simply say, "Look, these places had mask mandates. People still got sick. Therefore masks don't work." They're just a tool. One tool. They are just there to keep Bubba from spraying spit on the card reader as he wheeze breathes through his purchase at the local Piggly Wiggly.

Yes, some of the studies absolutely took into account the strictenss of the mandate and the diligence of the folks following it.

Even so, it is a very weak point to try to make.  When they put them in place -- you could not go to work, stores, etc. without them.  Yet, the cases shot up afterwards  --- and on a nearly identical curve as places that did NOT put a mandate in place.

Like the guy said  -- only Science-deniers believe in masks.  The data is in: masks are not that effective at stopping viruses.  You can even read this on the surgical mask boxes, etc.

We agree that washing hands and isolating the sick are most important and I can't stress enough, I go out a lot and only wear masks when I absolutely have to. Do you have numbers to prove most people are getting sick through airborne pathogens rather than droplets? There's no way to really prove this.

In order to understand why mask don't work you need to realize the size of viral particles compared to the size of the pores of a mask. 90% of virions from covid are smaller than .3 microns much smaller than the pores on surgical masks much less cloth masks not to mention the gaps around the masks themselves. For any smokers out there take a drag of a cigarette and put a mask on then exhale see what happens to the smoke. Smoke particles are roughly the same size as viral particles. Mask wearing is nothing but theater.

For every expert you could trot out to say masks don't work I could line up two that say they're the best tool. It would just be a pissing match. None of it would make either side right. I'm talking common sense. Do masks stop the spread of droplets? Is there any concrete data to show more people are affected by airborne pathogens rather than contact with droplets?

How do you think virus particles travel? You think they just levitate? TIE fighters?

@Bigdoubleplay

 https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/06/11/fact-check-n-95-filters-not-too-large-stop-covid-19-particles/5343537002/

Here's one link for you to start with.

On the internet, key in identifying fake news is to investigate credibility of source of information and find better sources.  Anti-maskers are a fringe minority outside of scientific consensus.  Their information sources are inferior in expertise.  In contrast, top medical organizations recommend mask wearing.  For examples, American medical association, Center for disease control, American nursing association and World health organization.  Why don't anti-maskers name top medical organizations that deny masks wearing?

I am for sure saying this ‘one tool’ did not work.  I have reviewed too may studies and data on it.  

You could make an argument for them in a bar environment.  A place where people are yelling because of music and are drinking and way more relaxed and loud and in each other’s faces.  Sure, that stops the spit.  

But as we have said before gyms and restaurants and stores are NOT spreading it and the studies now even show the masks so nothing in this environment.  Like the guy said in the link above 6 feet or 60 feet — no detectable difference.  

I agree that it is political by the Left for sure.  

@StumpTownStu

 There's some evidence of n95 masks reducing spread with sick individuals in hospital settings with trained medical professionals who know how to apply and remove the mask. Hospital settings are controlled sanitized. There's no studies of the effect of n95s with healthy people in an uncontrolled environment with people who are not trained in how to apply or remove as far as I know if you have a study I'd gladly read it. Too my knowledge there hasn't been one peer reviewed study to support mask wearing by the general public to reduce the spread plenty of studies showing the opposite. The majority of people aren't wearing n95s anyway.

It is the Ro we would look at in this situation.  Wuhan is right in line with tuberculosis (which we now know is spread only through aerosols). So, the argument that it is not like say, measles, is faulty because of this.  

This also is in line with a short-distance contagion.  In other words, like the one guy states: the existing science refutes the assumption that close contact suggests droplet spread.  

Remember, the basically three ways to spread it.  Now remember how worried they were initially about contaminated surfaces and the length of contamination. We now know this to be untrue as well.  

For example, even CDC studies show:

...warned that scientific “evidence from 14 randomized controlled trials of these measures did not support a substantial effect on transmission…”

Again, it is not an either/or situation.  You can easily see that data in the RCTs.  

On April 6, 2020 the World Health Organization released guidance saying that healthy people don't need to wear face masks to prevent coronavirus spread. 

I wouldn’t be concerned with the ‘experts’ as much as I would be with the studies and the empirical data.  That is where the science separates from the politics.  

Remember when folks thought Fauci was the go-to expert on this?  You want an expert that uses science, data and studies to back up his position, not a bureaucrat making a political decision.   

I have already addressed this.  The studies show the face shields the lowest at 2%.  Which would certainly seem to protect, eyes especially, from droplets.  Then the cloth and then surgical masks.  But of course, N95 being the most ideal.  But the assumptions are that you never touch them and that you replace them very often etc.   a lot goes into reaching the 95 part.  Good studies comparing the various types.  

Face masks are recommended to reduce community transmission of SARS-CoV-2. One of the primary benefits of face masks and other coverings is as source control devices to reduce the expulsion of respiratory aerosols during coughing, breathing, and speaking. Face shields and neck gaiters have been proposed as an alternative to face masks, but information about face shields and neck gaiters as source control devices is limited. We used a cough aerosol simulator with a pliable skin headform to propel small aerosol particles (0 to 7 µm) into different face coverings. An N95 respirator blocked 99% of the cough aerosol, a medical grade procedure mask blocked 59%, a 3-ply cotton cloth face mask blocked 51%, and a polyester neck gaiter blocked 47% as a single layer and 60% when folded into a double layer. In contrast, the face shield blocked 2% of the cough aerosol. Our results suggest that face masks and neck gaiters are preferable to face shields as source control devices for cough aerosols

The first is a withdrawal on a study because of an increase in cases.

The second is the numbers on a study of different type masks.  The lowest, by far, is the face shield. 

Just two of the examples of why they do not work. 

No place shows a drop in cases after a mandate was put in place.  Several places show an increase in cases after a mandate was put in place. 

Twitter has deleted link to American institute for economic research because of dangerous covid misinformation.  Many public health experts criticize AIER call for allowing population to be infected to reach natural herd immunity.   Doctor Fauci denounces AIER proposal as nonsense and unscientific.